Why do Polish People hate the Swedes (The Deluge in one brief Summary)

[*Emperor*Seegert*]

Swedish invaders robbed the Commonwealth of its most important riches, and most of the stolen items never returned to Poland. Polish estimates, financial losses of Poland are estimated at 4 billion zlotys. Swedish invaders completely destroyed 188 cities and towns, 81 castles, and 136 churches in Poland. The Estimated amount of Polish Military and Civilian Casualties were to many to even count or estimate.

 

[yerm]

Vikings with cannons raided your country and stole financial treasures? Don't feel too bad; Britain lost its attractive women!

 

[Haresus]

I still remember those adventurous days, and boy do I profit. Each Swede still has 400 zlotys hidden under their pillows from those glorious days!

Cheers!

 

[*Emperor*Seegert*]

Ha

Well at least the Polish Still won the war but at a high cost

Quite a complicated part of history most people don't even know what the Deluge was

 

[Båtsman]

Yeah. Sweden had the finest army in Europe at that point, she did not have the resources to pay for that army however. That meant the army had to be sustained through foreign (French) subsidies and a constant looting of neighboring countries. And as the 30 years war had ended, Sweden's coffers were running low. It was now that king Charles X decided to loot Poland for a while, since renaissance Poland wasn't run much better than medieval Ireland.

Sweden actually invaded Poland to pay for her army.

 

[Galaahd]

I still remember those adventurous days, and boy do I profit. Each Swede still has 400 zlotys hidden under their pillows from those glorious days!

Cheers!

rotfl

 

[Zaleukos]

Charles X's invasion was certainly a disgraceful act, but I don't see that translating into modern day Poles hating Swedes. Relations have been cordial since 1989.

 

[pithorr]

Charles X's invasion was certainly a disgraceful act, but I don't see that translating into modern day Poles hating Swedes. Relations have been cordial since 1989.

Certainly. I may cordially ensure you that the Poles don't hate Swedish people.

 

[Druplesnubb]

Yeah. Sweden had the finest army in Europe at that point, she did not have the resources to pay for that army however. That meant the army had to be sustained through foreign (French) subsidies and a constant looting of neighboring countries. And as the 30 years war had ended, Sweden's coffers were running low. It was now that king Charles X decided to loot Poland for a while, since renaissance Poland wasn't run much better than medieval Ireland.

Sweden actually invaded Poland to pay for her army.

There was a second reason too. The Vasa dynasty in Sweden had just ended, with Queen Christina nominating Charles X as her heir as compensation for refusing to marry him, before abdicating the throne and converting to Catholicism. Meanwhile the Polish king was a descendant of Swedish King Sigismund Vasa, who had been elected King of Poland, converted to Catholicism, and promptly gotten kicked out of Sweden and replaced by his younger brother. So now with Charles X there was a predicament where the Polish king was of the old Vasa dynasty that had ruled Sweden since her independence, while the actual Swedish king wasn't related to the Vasas even by marriage.

So you see, it wasn't just to pay for the army, it was also to weaken a foreign claimant to the Swedish throne. That's why we burned down all the things we couldn't steal

 

[Båtsman]

There was a second reason too. The Vasa dynasty in Sweden had just ended, with Queen Christina nominating Charles X as her heir as compensation for refusing to marry him, before abdicating the throne and converting to Catholicism. Meanwhile the Polish king was a descendant of Swedish King Sigismund Vasa, who had been elected King of Poland, converted to Catholicism, and promptly gotten kicked out of Sweden and replaced by his younger brother. So now with Charles X there was a predicament where the Polish king was of the old Vasa dynasty that had ruled Sweden since her independence, while the actual Swedish king wasn't related to the Vasas even by marriage.

So you see, it wasn't just to pay for the army, it was also to weaken a foreign claimant to the Swedish throne. That's why we burned down all the things we couldn't steal

I never really considered the fact that Sweden considered Poland dangerous (hindsight has its weaknesses). And while Gustavus Adolphus inherited his Polish war from his father, that war was more or less a dynastic conflict. But I never found any of those reasons behind the Deluge; Charles X was not of the Vasa dynasty. And I never really got the impression of him being a statesman thinking in the long-term perspective. Charles X was a impatient bully who marched his soldiers all across the Baltic and looted whatever they could.

 

[Arilou]

I never really considered the fact that Sweden considered Poland dangerous (hindsight has its weaknesses). And while Gustavus Adolphus inherited his Polish war from his father, that war was more or less a dynastic conflict. But I never found any of those reasons behind the Deluge; Charles X was not of the Vasa dynasty. And I never really got the impression of him being a statesman thinking in the long-term perspective. Charles X was a impatient bully who marched his soldiers all across the Baltic and looted whatever they could.

It's precisely becuase his claim was kind of shaky that he had to settle the dynastic issue.

That said, it was very much a matter of "We have a great army, what shall we do with it?" (it should also be noted that for all the talk about war feeding itself it never did: Financing was a constant issue)

The great irony is that for all the destruction, Sweden really didn't get anything out of it (we left to go rob Denmark instead)

 

[Dina1954]

Yeah. Sweden had the finest army in Europe

Yes it was a great army BUT let us not forget that Finland was a part of Sweden in those days.Think about what bold and brave warriors that contry has delivered to Sweden during al the wars in the years 1600-1800.

 

[Båtsman]

Yes it was a great army BUT let us not forget that Finland was a part of Sweden in those days.Think about what bold and brave warriors that contry has delivered to Sweden during al the wars in the years 1600-1800.

I'd say that Finnish warriors were much more important during the middle ages, but that's just my interpretation. Swedish and Danish peasants allied each other against their own lords, and their warrior-trains, even making joint war together. Finnish peasants allied their lords against Novgorodian (and Moscowite) peasants and their lords.

But the Finns will never be forgotten:

"Here fought our fathers, without fear,
With sword, and plough, and thought.
And here, in clouded times, and clear,
With fortune in their front or rear,
Their Finnish hearts have beat, and wrought
And borne what bear they ought.

Who tells, of all the fights, the tale,
In which this folk withstood,
When war did rage from dale to dale,
When frost set in, with hunger’s wail?
Who measured all their pouring blood,
And all their patience good?"

 

[viale]

I don't think the Polish hatred towards the Swedes is because of the Deluge. It's a naturally occurring hatred happening to all countries containing white and red in their flags. just look at their neighbors; Poles, Russians or Danes(on both sides of Skagerrak). We all hate the Swedes on equal terms, no need to hog all the hatred for yourselves. 1658 worst year of my life

 

[Dina1954]

I'd say that Finnish warriors were much more important during the middle ages, but that's just my interpretation. Swedish and Danish peasants allied each other against their own lords, and their warrior-trains, even making joint war together. Finnish peasants allied their lords against Novgorodian (and Moscowite) peasants and their lords.

But the Finns will never be forgotten:"

I liked that poem it was very good many thanks

 

[Båtsman]

I liked that poem it was very good many thanks

You did not recognize it? Runeberg's Our Land does have a certain connection to Finland after all, if I may say so. (Shakes head in frustration at today's youth).

 

[Dina1954]

You did not recognize it? Runeberg's Our Land does have a certain connection to Finland after all, if I may say so. (Shakes head in frustration at today's youth).

Of course did I recognize it.I was happy that our brothercountry Finland was honored in this forum,thats why I thanked you.By the way i am glad to be called youth.(born in 1945).

 

[Druplesnubb]

Of course did I recognize it.I was happy that our brothercountry Finland was honored in this forum,thats why I thanked you.By the way i am glad to be called youth.(born in 1945).

Are you the reincarnation of Hitler?

 

[Dina1954]

Are you the reincarnation of Hitler?

Can not be allways suprted Israel your humor is silly.

 

[Galaahd]

Yes it was a great army BUT let us not forget that Finland was a part of Sweden in those days.Think about what bold and brave warriors that contry has delivered to Sweden during al the wars in the years 1600-1800.

Weren't almost all Sweden's soldiers were German mercenaries? Who even cares where Sweden's soldiers came from, it's not a point of nationalism.