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thedarkendstar

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Mar 13, 2012
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Just a random though but imagine after a large scale battle in WW2 blown up tanks explosion holes shells everywhere someone has to clean all this up who’s job is it and how long does it take? :p
 
The military that holds the field will generally remove the larger and more valuable stuff (such as knocked out tanks) as this can be repaired or used for scrap (good steel is a limiting factor in any industrial war). The small scale mess (expended ammunition, shell fragments, unexploded ordinance, etc) is the problem for whatever unfortunate farmer owns the land on which the fight took place. Some of this is a potential source of wealth (metal stuff like shell casings) and will be cleaned up fairly quickly, the rest is usually ploughed into the soil and occasionally uncovered by battlefield archaeologists.
 
Sometimes the bodies just weren't removed at all. For example, in the battle of Chancellorsville (US Civil War), many of the bodies were just left in the ground, and when the armies returned to that same location in the Battle of the Wilderness, they were fighting amongst the bones and skelletons of their fallen comrades.


As for tanks and such, they were often scrapped by whoever the side that held the field at the end of the day, or salvaged for parts and stuff. Many tanks that were "knocked out" in the battle were put back into action once the fighting ended.
 
Ever seen the film Patton? at the start of the film there was huge tank battle in Tunisia (or was Algeria?) and the locals went and picked off all the valuables from the dead and pieces of scrap metal. There's even documented incidents of this happening in France in '44 the locals would take away things to sell back to the military or to repurpose or break down.

Even in the news last week, there was a wildfire in a forest south of Berlin and locals heard explosions going off, that's because nobody ever cleaned up the forest after a battle between Soviets and the Germans making a last stand, which of course fell into East Germany after the war. Nature reclaims everything but even overgrown places in Belgium and France are still very dangerous to visit.
 
For the allies in ww2 at least there where special battlefield salvage units.
 
In Austria we have the "Black Cross" which still takes care about WWII victims still buried in the ground.
Usually they go to Stalingrad and other known locations for three months in the summer to search for human remains.
But they also did a lot of searching over the years in my home country.

From time to time other events (construction works) still dig bombs (250kg and 500kg ususally) up or smaller shells or grenades.
Then the disarmament unit of the army takes care of them.
 
Zone Rouge in France has areas that are deemed unhinhabitabl due to the devestation Estimated it will take over 700 years to fully clean

This is the case with most other areas that have been the scene of heavy fighting by industrialized armies. There are areas in the US from civil war battles still full of live ammo and mines, and some parts of Eastern Europe/western Russia which are unploughable because so many bones get turned up that they jam the ploughs in the tractors. Not to mention eastern Vietnam/western Cambodia and many other areas which were mined and stripped clean of vegetation.

The answer of ‘who cleans it up’ in most cases is that it doesnt happen. It’s to dangerous and difficult to try except in unusual circumstances.
 
Well there are military conventions that say that armies which place mine fields must hand over the maps which show location and extent of those mine fields to civilian authorities of the affected territory after war's end. So there is *a little* provision about cleaning up after the war.

Many grave sites from the 30 years war are mass graves that were dug quite a while after a battle. (Bodies having been stripped clean of any valuables, bones being missing and animal bite marks may give that away. ) It's assumed that locals often would put the bodies into graves of their own accord if they feared disease or they were coerced into cleaning up by local authorities.
 
Well there are military conventions that say that armies which place mine fields must hand over the maps which show location and extent of those mine fields to civilian authorities of the affected territory after war's end. So there is *a little* provision about cleaning up after the war.

Many grave sites from the 30 years war are mass graves that were dug quite a while after a battle. (Bodies having been stripped clean of any valuables, bones being missing and animal bite marks may give that away. ) It's assumed that locals often would put the bodies into graves of their own accord if they feared disease or they were coerced into cleaning up by local authorities.

Yes but the assumption is that the mines are staying where they were... which is not always the case, i.e. you got a nice shower and the stream suddenly floods the mined area and the mines are now somewhere.
 
Well there are military conventions that say that armies which place mine fields must hand over the maps which show location and extent of those mine fields to civilian authorities of the affected territory after war's end. So there is *a little* provision about cleaning up after the war.

Many grave sites from the 30 years war are mass graves that were dug quite a while after a battle. (Bodies having been stripped clean of any valuables, bones being missing and animal bite marks may give that away. ) It's assumed that locals often would put the bodies into graves of their own accord if they feared disease or they were coerced into cleaning up by local authorities.

How often have good enough maps of minefields been made and then turned over though? At least so far as I know, most mine fields (90% or more?) were never mapped and recorded sufficiently well at the time of their placement for a reasonable expectation of removal to take place. Even if/when that has taken place, the cost, danger and difficulty of clearance usually means they simply stay there. then there is the issue of cluster bombs, and unexploded conventional bombs which by their nature don't land in convenient to map locations.
 
Yes but the assumption is that the mines are staying where they were... which is not always the case, i.e. you got a nice shower and the stream suddenly floods the mined area and the mines are now somewhere.

Also that the initial mapping was good enough for future use, and that ALL the mines were properly recorded and mapped, then never purposely or accidentally moved again by either side, which usually isn't the case.
 
There's supposedly a saying in the Middle East that the women and children always follow the man, unless there's a minefield.

A lot of the explosives used in the World Wars were based on nitroglycerine compounds, which begin to "sweat" nitroglycerine and become unstable over time. It doesn't take much to set them off. Other explosives are more stable, but can still be detonated by accident.

Battlefield salvage and recovery was a big deal. The Germans converted several tank chassis into armored recovery vehicles, and the workshops were known for rebuilding working tanks out of badly damaged wrecks. Guns of all calibers were recovered or captured, and often used by garrison troops or second rate units, but a few pieces were highly prized and used in preference to German-built equipment. I believe it was the Panzerjager III "Marder" which was designed and equipped with captured Soviet 76mm anti-tank guns, using German-made ammunition with better explosives: a powerful combination of the best of Soviet metallurgy and German chemistry.

There's also a story of a village in Belgium where the Germans had been driven out by an American unit, and the US recovery crews followed immediately behind the advancing troops. The crews began cutting up a disabled Sherman tank sitting in the middle of the village square, until the Belgian mayor rushed out and insisted that the town wanted the tank as a monument. Half a tank still sits there.

And then we have North Africa, where a lot of stuff was either never recovered and has been covered by wind, sand, soil, or vegetation, was looted and cut apart gradually over time by the locals, or was hauled away with heavy equipment capable of dealing with the terrain. There's apparently quite a bit of stuff left, but nobody knows where, or the locals know and aren't saying. They're still occasionally finding German armored vehicles buried in river banks and other awkward terrain deep in the Soviet Union, and bombs are still located regularly (over a dozen per year during the 1970s, less as time passes) during construction in Berlin, London and several other cities.

In antiquity, weapons and armor constituted substantial fortunes, and were meticulously looted by the victorious armies, usually as a form of bonus. Scavengers then carted off whatever was left, which had not been worth carrying by the army. Anything found in modern times to mark the scene of an ancient battle would have to have been missed repeatedly, or covered up in some way.
 
Anybody interested in the devestation visited on a 20th centuryc battlefield would do well to visit the area around fort Douamont. The area was not re-plowed for farming after the war and maintains many of the visual scars of a battle. Definately worth a visit.
 
Usually the government. There are alsk many charity organisations involved.
And clearing of minefields is actually supported by the UN and many developed countries as development aid, so can be funded by the UNDP or through some counties' contribution.
For example, French and German experts were quite involved in Cambodia (the French bc it was a former colony, the Germans bc it was a good cause to spend money on) for some time and did make some good progress:
"In 2003, CMAA estimated that the combined cost for demining operations, including technical assistance and in kind contributions for Cambodia were about $40 million per year.[10] Experts estimated that Cambodia would need another 10 to 20 years to clear the mines if the current level of funding was maintained."
 
In antiquity, weapons and armor constituted substantial fortunes, and were meticulously looted by the victorious armies, usually as a form of bonus. Scavengers then carted off whatever was left, which had not been worth carrying by the army. Anything found in modern times to mark the scene of an ancient battle would have to have been missed repeatedly, or covered up in some way.

Things salvaged prior to the 20th century included clothes, boots, metal items such as knives and cups as well as hair and teeth at some times! At that point the only cleaning up is burying the naked, mutilated corpses.