Werewolf Lite CCCLXXXVII: Fake News!

[Wagonlitz]

@Health where are you?
If you are the last villager it's really poor sport to rob Aramael and I of victory just because you can't win; if you're the last wolf then why not just surrender if you've given up?

 

[Health]

@Health where are you?
If you are the last villager it's really poor sport to rob Aramael and I of victory just because you can't win; if you're the last wolf then why not just surrender if you've given up?

Because I was out getting drunk and listening to choirs in Malaga. Not necessarily in that order though.

Good news is that nobody else has to die today. I forfeit the game you guys didn't decide to lynch jeray and to think, if I only hadn't fallen asleep, we could've maybe won.

To make it short, I'm the last wolf and I give up.

 

[Wagonlitz]

Because I was out getting drunk and listening to choirs in Malaga. Not necessarily in that order though.

Good news is that nobody else has to die today. I forfeit the game you guys didn't decide to lynch jeray and to think, if I only hadn't fallen asleep, we could've maybe won.

To make it short, I'm the last wolf and I give up.

If you actually are the last wulf you need to state the surrender request in the pack PM. That's to prevent villagers from making surrender requests thereby be marked as villagers when the game doesn't end.

 

[LatinKaiser]

Day Seven
​

In one final effort to root out the remaining MSM Journalists, you plan to tie the two remaining suspects. Although apologists for the globalist elite are not known for their honor or integrity, you hope that, somehow, you can appeal to the better nature of the sole holdout. As the sun climbs high in the sky and then begins sinking back down, you wonder if there is any real chance of a clean, (relatively) bloodless conclusion to this ordeal. Then, just as you are beginning to fall into despair, one of the suspects steps forward. "I'd like to say something," he boldly proclaims, though with only four of you left his dramatic entrance is rather unimpressive. "I am the last MSM Journalist," he confesses, his eyes filling with tears. "I am a corporate shill, and I know that I have slandered the people's champions and misled the public. For decades, I have perpetuated lies on lies -- lies about the fluoride in our water, lies about chemtrails, and lies about the environment. Were it up to my bosses, you'd all be enslaved and sent to work in the salt mines, but, alas, this is not to be. For The Donald has ushered in a new era of democracy and popular sovereignty, returning power to the good citizens of America. Now, even France, once a shining beacon of SJWs, may fall to the wave of popular revolution. O, it is too cruel! Brothers and sisters, I have seen the error of my ways: it is futile to stand in the way of freedom. No more will I preach the gospel of progressivism, no longer shall I serve in the legions of liberalism. I shall fall on my sword, so full of guilt am I for what I have done! Remember me, remember me, but -- ah! -- forget my fate!" With these words (lifted directly from Virgil's Aeneid, for some reason), Health, the last MSM Journalist, walks out into the light... and is hit by 4 city buses because it is 4:17 and they are all late.

Village victory!

The winners are:
Wagonlitz the villager
aramael the villager
jeray2000 the villager​

 

[Luftwafer]

AAR!

 

[Wagonlitz]

Well thought not to lynch jeray then @DeathNoteForCutie

Also @Health what was the reason for not voting Aramael the day Cue was hung?

 

[jeray2000]

Wagonlitz, you really should not have requested surrender so many times, it was meta and did potentially have an impact on the game. I waited until now to say this because stating my reasons could further impact the game.

1. Your request for surrender could let someone figure out who the wolf is, by realizing that it must be an inactive(like Health) player or about to win(Wagonlitz, Arameal) player if it's assumed all the players are sportsmanlike.

2. Your request for surrender made me think that you were not a wolf. You would not be requesting me to surrender if you knew I was not a wolf, so you must not be a wolf. If I thought you were a wolf, I may not have sniped from you to Rovsea and then DNFC could have sniped from Rovsea to you and changed the course of the game.

 

[DeathNoteForCutie]

Good job to the village (and special shout out to Aramael as I believe this was their first game on here and they won) and thanks for the game, LK.

Really don't understand how DNC was hunted instead of Arameal (or me).

Did you really not? The wolves could probably explain their reasoning better but until you posted the JL PMs after deadline you were far from cleared (your seemingly sudden change from defending to Cleeque to leading the charge on him made me think you were either a wolf selling out your mate then using that momentum to get the village to lynch a villager the next day or a recently scanned JL member) and Aramael and I would both essentially be cleared on the final day after Rovsea turned up wolf (the mental gymnastics required to accuse me of switching the vote from a villager to my own mate would be quite impressive) and since Aramael was new to the forums the wolves probably thought they had a better chance of misleading them on the last day.

Well thought not to lynch jeray then @DeathNoteForCutie

I only did it because it maximized the chances of catching a wolf from my view. With six of us left there were 15 possible wolf pairs, once I eliminated all those with myself (5 pairs), all those with Aramael (4 pairs all of which were highly unlikely), and the jeray/Wagonlitz pair (highly unlikely you were mates), I was left with 5 pairs of jeray/Rovsea, jeray/Health, Wagonlitz/Rovsea, Wagonlitz/Health, and Rovsea/Health. Health and Rovsea both featured in three of the cases so I wanted to switch to one of them and it was noticing that if the rest of the pack went all in on Aramael that Health's vote seemed odd that made me discount jeray/Health enough to push the switch to Rovsea, especially since once I discounted jeray/Health, Rovsea had to be a wolf for me to even consider jeray a suspect. And as I mentioned before, I was hoping to get you in the snipe to get one or more candidates from my four most likely wolf pairs in the lynch on the penultimate day.

 

[DeathNoteForCutie]

Wagonlitz, you really should not have requested surrender so many times, it was meta and did potentially have an impact on the game. I waited until now to say this because stating my reasons could further impact the game.

1. Your request for surrender could let someone figure out who the wolf is, by realizing that it must be an inactive(like Health) player or about to win(Wagonlitz, Arameal) player if it's assumed all the players are sportsmanlike.

2. Your request for surrender made me think that you were not a wolf. You would not be requesting me to surrender if you knew I was not a wolf, so you must not be a wolf. If I thought you were a wolf, I may not have sniped from you to Rovsea and then DNFC could have sniped from Rovsea to you and changed the course of the game.

Not going to deny that surrender requests are meta (and I think I was the first one to bring up surrenders by saying we might get the wolves to surrender if we got the fourth wolf, which I apologize for) but on the flip side, a wolf could request surrender to look villagerish in that instance.

 

[aedan777]

Very unsurprised, I had all but cleared Jeray of being a wolf after I got hunted, and when Deathnote directed the lynch off Jeray, I was all but certain Rovsea and Health were the wolves. If Jeray had been a wolf, it would have been extremely stupid to hunt me, when I was the main voice that had saved him from a tie with Alynkio, and indeed was the main opponent to lynching Jeray in general. Good game though, health did a decent job staying under the radar and making a sellout vote on Cleeque at just the right time.

 

[Luftwafer]

I mean I called it in the JL.

 

[JCan]

I mean I called it in the JL.

I recall that you called me throwing the game...

 

[Luftwafer]

You nearly did.
You still made the worst play I've ever seen

 

[aedan777]

You nearly did.
You still made the worst play I've ever seen

It was a dumb play, but not even close to worst. Worst is when PJ voted with the wolves to let them win in a Lite when he was a villager in the JL.

 

[JCan]

You nearly did.
You still made the worst play I've ever seen

 

[LatinKaiser]

It was a dumb play, but not even close to worst. Worst is when PJ voted with the wolves to let them win in a Lite when he was a villager in the JL.

Ah yes, that game. IIRC that was what got him banned the first time. (The second time it was due to sockpuppets, I think.)

 

[Rovsea]

Surrendering is meta-gaming, and should legitimately not be allowed. For example, if surrendering is "typical" in werewolf games then you could have somebody that you're sure is a suspect, and so everybody is voting for them, the last wolf. Except... they don't surrender, so they can't be a wolf, so you switch your vote onto the next most likely candidate, who may actually be a wolf.

 

[Wagonlitz]

1. Your request for surrender could let someone figure out who the wolf is, by realizing that it must be an inactive(like Health) player or about to win(Wagonlitz, Arameal) player if it's assumed all the players are sportsmanlike.

Except that in situations like this the wolf doens't surrender immediately, but always only close to deadline.

Did you really not? The wolves could probably explain their reasoning better but until you posted the JL PMs after deadline you were far from cleared

Good point. I thought that going after jeray like that made me quite cleared. (Which it obviously didn't as jeray wasn't a wolf.)

your seemingly sudden change from defending to Cleeque to leading the charge on him made me think you were either a wolf selling out your mate then using that momentum to get the village to lynch a villager the next day or a recently scanned JL member

I had no idea that happened, since it was before I subbed in.

Ah yes, that game. IIRC that was what got him banned the first time. (The second time it was due to sockpuppets, I think.)

You're mixing things up. That game gave him a WW exclusion---believe his later WW exclusion was for making that comment about wanting to see Alxeu's 10 year old sister nude.
His forum bans were first for making those disgusting comments about Aziz and Alxeu's sister and later for sockpuppets.

Surrendering is meta-gaming, and should legitimately not be allowed. For example, if surrendering is "typical" in werewolf games then you could have somebody that you're sure is a suspect, and so everybody is voting for them, the last wolf. Except... they don't surrender, so they can't be a wolf, so you switch your vote onto the next most likely candidate, who may actually be a wolf.

Firstly surrendering should always be done in the pack PM solely for that reason. And secondly it should only be done when you're completely sure that you can't win. For instance if all remaining goodies are in the JL.

 

[aedan777]

Surrendering is meta-gaming, and should legitimately not be allowed. For example, if surrendering is "typical" in werewolf games then you could have somebody that you're sure is a suspect, and so everybody is voting for them, the last wolf. Except... they don't surrender, so they can't be a wolf, so you switch your vote onto the next most likely candidate, who may actually be a wolf.

Or the wolf is stubborn and is counting on the villagers making an erroneous assumption like that. The choice to surrender is the prerogative of the wolves. What the village chooses to do with a lack of surrender decision is up to them. Browbeating a surrender out of wolves is a legitimate tactic, as it breaks no rules and the point is ultimately to win. The issue that arises, such that one exists, is a reluctance on the part of many wolves to push back against village claims of victory, and accept them as true.

Consider just last lite for instance, 3 wolves were alive when they surrendered, yet they were obviously known to the village. Preventing their surrender would have prolonged the game by days, when the outcome was obvious to everyone involved. Surrenders should be allowed, but wolves should be more willing to push back against villager claims of victory.

 

[DeathNoteForCutie]

I had no idea that happened, since it was before I subbed in.

Uh, I was referring to the fact that you seemed pretty against lynching Cleeque on Day 3 (the day after enkhuush was subbed out and your first day in the game) and then on Day 4 you were one of the ones pushing everyone to vote Cleeque as the village candidate, which if I'm understanding correctly was the same time you were scanned by luft and added to the JL.