The Amsterdammer Way - A Mildly Interactive AAR

[delpiero1234]

How are going the conversion effort? Could you give us a brief summary?

Well one of the screenshots that I uploaded in the poll shows that our religious unity is currently at 66%. We have one missionary that is working on converting provinces.
Our center of reformation in Osnabrugge also helps converting but sometimes it decides to convert provinces of other countries which is a bit annoying.
Protestantism also lost one of its three centers of reformation (it was in Magdeburg) so with just 2 centers of reformation, conversion of the HRE is a bit difficult.
Therefore, I assume that Protestantism will remain the minority faith of the Empire..


This is the screenshot from one of the above posts:

If you need more detail on our conversation efforts then I will give a more detailed reply

 

[ThePatriotOfDreumel]

Current votes:

Issue 1:

Option 1: 3 votes
Option 2: 0 votes
Option 3: 1 vote
​

Issue 2:

Option 1: 0 votes
Option 2: 0 votes
Option 3: 4 votes​

Issue 3:

Option 1: 1 vote
Option 1.5: 3 votes
Option 2: 0 votes
​

Issue 4:

Option 1: 1 vote
Option 2: 1 vote
Option 3: 2 votes
​

Issue 5:

Option 1: 1 votes
Option 2: 3 votes​

 

[delpiero1234]

Current votes:

Issue 1:

Option 1: 3 votes
Option 2: 0 votes
Option 3: 1 vote
​

Issue 2:

Option 1: 0 votes
Option 2: 0 votes
Option 3: 4 votes​

Issue 3:

Option 1: 1 vote
Option 1.5: 3 votes
Option 2: 0 votes
​

Issue 4:

Option 1: 1 vote
Option 2: 1 vote
Option 3: 2 votes
​

Issue 5:

Option 1: 0 votes
Option 2: 4 votes​

Thanks for the list but I think you got the count wrong. Is that possible? I will re-count them tomorrow. @crazyself00 voted in issue 5 for option 1 so the list seems wrong or not?

Edit: My reply should now be more clear.​

 

[ThePatriotOfDreumel]

@crazyself00 voted in issue 5 for option 1 so the list seems wrong or not?

Edit: My reply should now be more clear.​

Lol, derp.

 

[crazyself00]

How quick Amsterdam convert European provinces? and African ones?

 

[delpiero1234]

Lol, derp.

Your count is still wrong.


So I give you the current votes below:

Issue 1:

Option 1: Baron Tanks, CorwinusJ, ThePatriotOfDreume, crazyself00, hirahammad (Total 5)
Option 2:
Option 3: londoner247 (Total 1)
​

Issue 2:

Option 1:
Option 2:
Option 3: Baron Tanks, londoner247, CorwinusJ, ThePatriotOfDreume, crazyself00, hirahammad (Total 6)
​

Issue 3:

Option 1: Baron Tanks, ThePatriotOfDreume, crazyself00, londoner247, hirahammad (Total 5)
Option 2:
Option 1.5 (which does not exist): CorwinusJ (Total 1)
​

Issue 4:

Option 1: ThePatriotOfDreume (Total 1)
Option 2: londoner247 (Total 1)
Option 3: Baron Tanks, CorwinusJ, crazyself00, hirahammad (Total 4)
​

Issue 5:

Option 1: crazyself00, hirahammad (Total 2)
Option 2: Baron Tanks, londoner247, CorwinusJ, ThePatriotOfDreume (Total 4)

Updated​

 

[Baron Tanks]

​

If you want to keep Scotland as a subject until the end of the game then why not make them a march? If we don't make Scotland a march then we will annex them once we can spare the diplomat working on the annexation for ~15+ years (could be longer or shorter; just a guess).

Well that's the million dollar question here isn't it. If we don't annex them now, will we keep them till the end of the game, or do we keep them until we get influence ideas and annex them at a reduced cost. If you keep 'm till the end of the game there is no reason not to make them a march. I don't mind either way.

 

[delpiero1234]

How quick Amsterdam convert European provinces? and African ones?

It takes up to 101 months to convert provinces in Africa. The most difficult province to convert for us is Gyaaman (101 months).
Madeira takes 38 months; Utrecht 26 month. Just a few examples
Our missionary strength is not very good.

Base value: +2.0
Postivie stability: +1.5
Act of Uniformity: +1.0
Conventicle Act: +1.0
Total: 5.5

Edit: We could pass the Test Act which would increase missionary strength by +0.5 at the cost of -1 tolerance of heretics.

Well that's the million dollar question here isn't it. If we don't annex them now, will we keep them till the end of the game, or do we keep them until we get influence ideas and annex them at a reduced cost. If you keep 'm till the end of the game there is no reason not to make them a march. I don't mind either way.

Right now in the 'Scotland-Question' Option 3 leads with 3 votes. If that won't change then we won't make Scotland a march and integrate them as soon as we have access to a third diplomat.
If we want to keep Scotland around until the end of the game then they should be a march for reduced liberty desire next to the military benefits.

 

[londoner247]

If you want to keep Scotland as a subject until the end of the game then why not make them a march? If we don't make Scotland a march then we will annex them once we can spare the diplomat working on the annexation for ~15+ years (could be longer or shorter; just a guess).

I would say that even if you don't keep them to the end of the game it is still worth making them a March if you are going to keep them for a while. Losing 1 stab is only a problem if you are at 0 and even then it is quite cheap to buy back and we tend not to have problems with monarch points. So, I say, if you reckon you'll keep them for at least 50 years then you may as well make them a March and cancel it later when you're ready to annex them.

Well Option 1 does not mean we will cancel it the minute I resume playing. It just means we will cancel the alliance once we won't need them anymore. For example, we might drag the Austrians into one of our offensive wars first and then cancel it afterwards.
So please change your vote to either Option 1 or Option 2 before the poll closes tomorrow

In that case I guess my vote is for Option 1.

What happens if Scotland's colonial nation would declare war on our colonial nation? Would we then lose Scotland as march? Colonial nations like to fight each other all the time.

I have had France as a PU junior in my current GB game for hundreds of years. We both have multiple CNs with claims on each other but they do not fight each other. My CNs do not declare on theirs and theirs do not declare on mine. I suspect that is hard coded to be something they won't do rather than just a happy coincidence but I have certainly never seen it.

Staying in the Empire means we will not get more diplomats from our government rank. We need diplomats for various things like fabricating claims and improving relations. We only have 2 diplomats at the moment.

But if we fight and win the League War from within the empire and we are the largest and most powerful Protestant member then we have a decent chance of becoming Emperor. Even if we don't become Emperor, if there are only a small number of Protestant Princes we might be made an Elector. Either way, I don't think we need to leave for that extra diplomat immediately but I agree we need to address that issue sooner rather than later.

​

The AI's use of the navy has gotten much better in recent patches in my opinion

I agree. I just wish there was a way to tell subjects not to bother with certain wars. For example, if I am fighting a war in Europe and a war in Asia then I probably don't need my European subjects to ship their troops over to a Ming when id rather they were fighting the Commonwealth but I can't tell them this in the game.

It takes up to 101 months to convert provinces in Africa. The most difficult province to convert for us is Gyaaman (101 months).
Madeira takes 38 months; Utrecht 26 month. Just a few examples
Our missionary strength is not very good.

Base value: +2.0
Postivie stability: +1.5
Act of Uniformity: +1.0
Conventicle Act: +1.0
Total: 5.5

Edit: We could pass the Test Act which would increase missionary strength by +0.5 at the cost of -1 tolerance of heretics.

I know that I'm in the minority and in danger of being outvoted but I think this makes it essential that we take missionary strength as our first Aspect of Faith. The colonies are growing fine as it is and we aren't really in a serious race anyway.

 

[hirahammad]

Issue 1
Option 1

Issue 2

Option 3

Issue 3

Option 1

Issue 4
Option 3

Issue 5
Option 1

 

[delpiero1234]

I would say that even if you don't keep them to the end of the game it is still worth making them a March if you are going to keep them for a while. Losing 1 stab is only a problem if you are at 0 and even then it is quite cheap to buy back and we tend not to have problems with monarch points. So, I say, if you reckon you'll keep them for at least 50 years then you may as well make them a March and cancel it later when you're ready to annex them.

I agree that recovering the stab hit would not be that bad since we have a high monarch power generation. Currently, it looks like that the majority of the Raad does not want to see Scotland as a march. I'd be in favor of making them a march if we'd keep them for 100+ years.
If Scotland won't be turned into a march we could always think about establishing a march elsewhere, for example in Italy or one that borders the Ottoman Empire. This would allow me to get to know the march mechanic better.

In that case I guess my vote is for Option 1.

Noted. Please also update your original voting post in case you haven't done so already. Makes the counting of the votes tomorrow easier. I also updated the 'current votes post'

But if we fight and win the League War from within the empire and we are the largest and most powerful Protestant member then we have a decent chance of becoming Emperor. Even if we don't become Emperor, if there are only a small number of Protestant Princes we might be made an Elector. Either way, I don't think we need to leave for that extra diplomat immediately but I agree we need to address that issue sooner rather than later.

A (Dutch) Republic cannot become Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire
Is there anything we can do to increase our chances of becoming an Elector?

I know that I'm in the minority and in danger of being outvoted but I think this makes it essential that we take missionary strength as our first Aspect of Faith. The colonies are growing fine as it is and we aren't really in a serious race anyway

I would favor the conversion strength as the first aspect, too, because our missionary strength is very poor. As I said earlier, it takes 102 months to convert one of our African provinces. Maybe we will take missionary strength as our second aspect then. We shall see

 

[londoner247]

A (Dutch) Republic cannot become Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire

Good point. I'd forgotten that. In that case, may as well wait until we have eaten as much of the HRE as we want to from within and then upgrade. Perhaps waiting for 1,000 development is the right call on this.

 

[delpiero1234]

Good point. I'd forgotten that. In that case, may as well wait until we have eaten as much of the HRE as we want to from within and then upgrade. Perhaps waiting for 1,000 development is the right call on this.

Given that the large majority of the Raad is voting for staying in the Empire, I think getting to 1000 development before making a new poll about leaving sounds like a good compromise.


Edit: We currently have 567 development.

 

[delpiero1234]

Assembly of the Raad of Amsterdam; 16 October, 1530 (Part II)​

Delegates,
My assistants and I have just finished counting the votes. After an intense discussion it seems like that the Raad stays divided on certain issues.
The Raad has decided with a 5:1 vote that Heretics shall be deported to the colonies.
We shall declare war on Castile and England in the near future.
Amsterdam shall break her alliance with Austria.
Scotland will stay a vassal for now until we can spare a diplomat to integrate them.
It is decided that Amsterdam shall remain in the Holy Roman Empire as we are not strong enough yet to leave.
This concludes the counting of the votes. I invite you to dine with me and members of the small council tonight. We have specialities from all our colonies as well as local dishes. I hope to see you there; if not then I wish you a good journey home!

​

Raadpensionaris de Friesland leaves the stage and heads to his private villa in Amsterdam before later joining some of the delegates at the banquet.

 

[delpiero1234]

Letter to the Delegates of the Raad of Amsterdam; 7 April, 1536.​

Raad of Amsterdam,
I herby inform you that today we have established Leon as a vassal in Iberia. Leon controls five provinces and I hope that they will prove useful in future wars. Our presence in Iberia is now much stronger. Of course, the Margrave of Leon has agreed to convert to the Church of Amsterdam. Their idea groups are useful for us, especially if we want to convert Iberia to the true faith. They have completed religious and offensive ideas already and unlocked influence ideas. My advisors and I would have preferred if they had taken exploration ideas as their third idea group but oh well!
Offensive ideas will make their military stronger and religious ideas are useful for converting Catholic provinces. I am very happy that we have managed to establish Leon as vassal.
Cartographer Ernst van Renesse has painted a new map of Iberia which you may find in the Raad's chambers. Leon sits in an ideal position. It borders Castile, Aragon and Portugal.
The small council will happily answer any questions about Leon that you have in my name.

​

Signed by Gerben de Friesland, Raadpensionaris of Amsterdam


​

​

 

[hirahammad]

Talk about a shift of the balance of power. Was that due to rebels, or a peace deal? (Don't answer)

 

[delpiero1234]

Talk about a shift of the balance of power. Was that due to rebels, or a peace deal? (Don't answer)

Time will tell
New update probably later today.

 

[londoner247]

Talk about a shift of the balance of power. Was that due to rebels, or a peace deal? (Don't answer)

Time will tell
New update probably later today.

That screenshot should have had spoiler tags around it!

If I had to put money on it, I would say that we beat them in a war and took those provinces in a peace deal and then released them as a vassal because distance between borders would make it difficult to diplovassal Leon if they had been released any other way. If my guess is right, what I'm waiting to hear is why we didn't manage to take even one of Portugal's mainland provinces ...

 

[delpiero1234]

That screenshot should have had spoiler tags around it!

My bad. I thought a few days ago, the general understanding was that it's ok if I tease you guys sometimes with 'Letters to the Raad' about an interesting event/issue while I was playing. At least, nobody objected to it. I can give future 'Letter to the Raad' posts spoiler tags.

If I had to put money on it, I would say that we beat them in a war and took those provinces in a peace deal and then released them as a vassal because distance between borders would make it difficult to diplovassal Leon if they had been released any other way. If my guess is right, what I'm waiting to hear is why we didn't manage to take even one of Portugal's mainland provinces ...

It will soon be revealed

 

[londoner247]

That screenshot should have had spoiler tags around it!

My bad. I thought a few days ago, the general understanding was that it's ok if I tease you guys sometimes with 'Letters to the Raad' about an interesting event/issue while I was playing. At least, nobody objected to it. I can give future 'Letter to the Raad' posts spoiler tags.

Don't worry. I was only joking!