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kelestra

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Jan 9, 2013
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Welcome Generals,

please have a seat and listen to the new intelligence review. It's about the first insights of the current war.

It's about the best options you can have when playing Nazi-Germany. Well, the best options to my mind. There are a lot of "guides" out there, and I still think many things can be optimized. In this summary (I won't call it guide already, as I think there are going to be a lot of tweaks in the next month) I will talk about the To-Dos and the Just-Don'ts. If you want to contribute anything, your suggestions are warmly welcome.

1. General Tips

Read the good guides!
For example the air unit guide that is out there. It is really into depth and helps Germany players a lot.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-mechanics-combat-mission-quick-guide.947290/


What to do in the construction panel?
Although many boni on military factory speed can be achieved early, it seems an alternative way to expand your civilian industry for the first 1-2 years. You can roughly double your ability to spam MIC by roughly half the time gone till Danzig or War event.

Convert civilian IC to military IC or build military IC?
The fastest way to gain strength is to convert CIC to MIC. But: you need to watch your traded CIC and you might lack the capability to build non-equipment-stuff you want (radar, MIC). With 38+ techs you can fill all factory slots with MIC really fast!

How to deal with ressource shortages?
Basically two options: conquer them or try to circumvent the need. First approach is basically an investment in MIC and consequently trade. Second one is an adjusted army/research composition or an investment in rafineries. You might also check your ressource needs, own ressource production and your trade law. Free trade grants nice boni to factory output and research, but you might even end up by trading 5 CIC for feeding your steel need. Which is quite insane for Germany.

How does world tension work?
There are lots of actions that rise tension. Annexations through national focus, preparing wargoals, annexing a targets territories, send troops to your allies or LL equipment, all these actions create tension. Especially annexing territories AFTER a war adds lots of tension. For example the end of the Spanish Civil War usually adds 20+ % tension, no matter who wins it. So after SCW is ended, there is no way for Germany to declare war to neutral or democratic nations. At least after Japan dow's China, tension limit is reached.

Why should I even care about world tension?
As Germany you will most likely face the Allies and the SOV, at least one of them. The democracies for example have many National Foci that are only available when tension is over a certain limit. For example 5. If you leave Nationalist Spain alone, they will have to choose different NF first, which gives you time to build your war machine and prevent them from optimizing theirs. In MP early aggression is common, so you will see tension going through the roof in 36 very often. This way its easy for Allies to mobilize and DoW you very early. If you see this from SOV, start building MIC and pump units. Democracies can "guarantee" a nation if tension reaches 25%. So even in SP you can face carpet guarantees, what usually means that the Allies are guaranteeing all your possible target nations at your borders.

So what is the optimal strategy for Germany?
Like for any other nation gaining IC as fast as possible is Germanies goal. More IC translates into more production, wether it is even more IC or divisions. It is important to realize that this whole thing is connected to exponential growth of production. The more accelerated your early steps are, the faster you will grow. Translated to actions in the game it means that early annexions is the fastest way to gain strength. Of course there are details to think about, but this is the rule of thumb.

How do I wage early wars without an Allied intervention?
Allies will guarantee your targeted nation if world tension is above 25%. It may be possible to DoW facist nations without forcing them in the Allies, though I never experienced this behavior and it has to proven, it might be possible to annex european fascist nations wihtout forcing them in the Allies. Possible targets may be Italy and some Balkan fascist countries like Hungary. Have a look at the ahistorical chapter in the future for more information.

Think about every step and time it!
Sounds obvious. But it's extremely important. Think about your priorities. Ask yourself: when do I need what kind troops, what are they used for and what amount is needed. Then plan your buildup, not before. Through national foci, laws, politicians, companies and chief of staffs you can influence everything: from research time to experience gained to build costs. The difference can be huge. You should really kill all your emotions and start acting consequently. For examples to try to do so, see strategies below.

2. Mostly historical

What's the general plan?
Early Anschluss/Czech by infantry spam. Fast K.O. of most of Europe within a year. Prepare for Barbarossa with Panzer IV variant.

How to do it most efficient?
Most efficient way is ahistorical! But this might not fit everyones playstyle. So here is a not so optimal way to do it.

Early Anschluss/Czech
You need 70 days for Rhineland. Than you need 550k manpower in the field. Here's how you do it:
  • Pick Rhineland focus.
  • Pick industry techs: electronic mechanical engineering, construction 1, basic machine tools. Fourth is discussable. I'll go for Scharnhorst-Class or carrier (see below for doing it 'right'), but optimal would be to leave navy and go for infantry support equipment.
  • Build civilian factories. I usually leave at least 2 slots available in a province for now. Prefer eastern Germany. It is totally viable to build MIC right from the start, especially in MP where early agressions are common.
  • Recruit infantry divisions. Like 72. I usually go for 3 blocks 4x6 infantry divisions in middle Germany.
  • Change amount of ships in queue to 1 each. Add MIC to infantry equipment line. Prefer lines that do not use foreign ressources like rubber/oil.
  • Organize your infantry divisions in an army and send them to the French border.
  • Start army training.
  • Disband all air wings.
  • Reorganize your fleets to submarine fleet under Dönitz, Kriegsmarine under Raeder and Ostflotte under Saalwächter eg.
  • Maximize infantry equipment, support equipment and artillery equipment production lines asap. You can ignore lack of ressources for now.
  • You might want to cancel building CAS, TAC, LARM
  • Never have less than 15 CIC producing new CIC.
  • With the first 150 political power change law to free trade.
  • Once your INF divisions in training have some equipment they become available for early deployment. Do it asap.
Next steps are:
  • Choose War Economy and Schacht as minister.
  • Next thing with PP is Krupp as company, after that Mauser, Messerschmidt/Focke or the Germania Werft that boosts your capital ships powers (Atlantik fleet).
  • Choose Autobahn as second national focus.
  • Anschluss should be third, since you do the early deployment trick right. If you like, you can complete the Autbahn path till both CIC foci first. This way you might be able to trade some some CIC against 280 days of more production, CIC and MIC wise.
  • After that follow the Czech decisions (or finish the Autobahn tree till you get those civilian factories, if you went for Anschluss as third).
  • Annex all of Czech!
  • Before finishing the Scharnhorst/Carrier class tech, make sure you employ the naval company if you want to build this model. If you haven't yet, switch to any tech seen below before it is finished. Same with heavy fighter medium air company or light aircraft company and INT.
  • Research densed industry, machine tools, computing machines and start updating infantry equipment and artillery techs. Add Radar/Radio if you have the spare time.
  • Think about switching air or fleet doctrine if you build the equipment. Fleet in beeing and Operational Integrity have way better boni in the first 4-6 techs for your strategy, but eat up more time (no research bonus by NF).
  • If tension allows it: Send troops to help Franco and all your airforce except BF 109/110 and transport planes.
  • If tension allows it: Support Japan in China with exp force, too.
  • If tension allows it: Give outdated equipment as LL to your allies to gain experience.
  • Add air theorist for air experience if you build lots of BF 109/110, otherwise go for mobile warfare theorist.
  • Build BF 110 A variant with updated guns for bomber defense or a mire agile 109.
  • Update your divisions to the following after you finished Austria/Czech:
    • Recon/Fieldhospital/SupArt/Eng x Inf/Inf/Inx/Art x Inf/Inf/Inx/Art x Inf
    • Recon/SupArt/Eng x Mot/Mot/Mot/Mot x Mot/Mot/Mot/Mot x Mot/Mot
    • Recon/SupArt/Eng/Inst x MARM/MARM/MARM x MARM/MARM/MARM x Mot/Mot/Mot/Mot(Mech/Mech/Mech/Mech)
    • Recon/MP x CAV/CAV x CAV/CAV
  • If you can afford the research and production it is a very good approach to go for SPART in your line Inf and MARM divisions. Change temolates to 4xInf/3xInf/1SPART and 2xMARM/1xSPART - 2xMARM/1xSPART - 3XMOT.
  • Continue building CIC factories in 1936, save the game.
  • Find out what you like more: continue building CIC till 38 or stop right after swallowing Czech. I would recommend to build MIC right from the start.
This way it is possible to annex Austria in mid '36 and Czech shortly after. This results in a faster gain of factories than any buildup you can do without this.
After this you have a lot of freedom. I usually do the following:
  • After Finishing Anschluss/Czech go for first two foci of the Army Innovation path and rush Panzer III with 100% bonus.
  • Production should be in infantry equipment, artillery, support equipment, motorized, Panzer III, BF 109 A, Scharnhorst or submarines and a very little something else.
  • Go for the 5th research team.
  • Go for the third army innovation focus.
  • Aim for new infantry equipment and artilleries, especially the artillery.
  • Don't forget your doctrines and keep all the industry/electronics stuff up to date.
  • Use the 50% Bonus for repair speed 50%-Tech pre war.
  • Don't build to much Infantry Equipment I, aim for a lot of II, as this is what you go to war with.
  • Same for tanks. Build enough Panzer III but stop since you have 14 Tank divisions and a bit in stash for replacement.
  • If you can't drag Netherlands on your side, aim for 5-10 raffineries (don't forget the advisor that speeds it up, his name is Hjalmar Schacht. If you just added him now start a new game.).
  • Follow the air units guide to set up fighters in Westgermany.
  • Build at least 1 radar in all of western Germany, basically where you want to place your fighters.
  • Conquer Poland and go for Belgium/France.
  • If you decide to go for Weserübung, do it after FoF, if at all. It takes time and reward is low:
    • Do it with protection of your naval bombers and Kriegsmarine but be careful.
    • Don't forget to push to Narvik as you need this VP to make Norway falter. Landings here are risky.
  • Blitz France through Belgium, try to leave NED alone, as it is your Rubber supplier if don't have raffineries.
  • Watch out for DDays in your back. Secure every port at the North Sea and the channel with at least one INF division to make sure.
  • You might want to go for a Spain/Balkan campaign. I like it because of all the Oil, metals and IC.
  • If you do so, begin to create reasons for war early. Start before Weserübung.
Build at least one Panzerarmee for a quick K.O. of your early enemies. Don't go wild with the Panzer III. You will aim for Panzer IV variant for Barbarossa.

There's a great AAR out there from our Führer Evcro. Here you can find roughly this strategy and how it works out. His second playthrough starts on th third page of his thread. Here's the link:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-battleplans-aka-50-bonus-to-ai.943040/page-3


3. Ahistorical

What's the general plan?
Early conquering of Netherlands to gain their oversea provinces for all the rubber you can dream of. You should also go for Sweden, too, but you have to watch your timing to avoid Allies to DoW you (early carpet guaranteeing because tension is to high).

What's the difference to the 'almost historical' approach?
The differences are:
  • Use your first 50 PP to create a reason for war with NED.
  • Use the next 50 PP to do the same with SWE if you want.
  • Pay attention to world tension, as NED might join the Allies if you push to hard for early wars, LL or Anschluss.
  • After Rhineland and no DoW from France, send your INF to the Baltic coast an prepare invasion plan to SWE. Don't forget to send your ships cruising in the Baltic to trigger naval surpremacy (needed for invasion planning timer to start).
  • Your early recruited INF are send to the border of NED train.
  • Stop training and prepare a warplan at least a few weeks before war can be declared.
  • After you conquered NED and SWE, you can continue on the path from almost historical approach.
  • You might also want to use your early power to accelerate your game. It might be possible to attack european fascist countries like Hungary and Italy without interference from the Allies. This will give you insane amount of power before the mid of 1938. To ensure victory you need to adapt the usual strategy a bit and focus on infantry build. Make sure to skip everything else. You can easily skip building planes/mot/tanks and even go for very early Sealion.
  • Have fun by ruling the world.


4. Ahistorical alternatives


What's the general plan?
Early Anschluss, Czech and conquering of Poland to gain their IC wihtout creating enough tension for the Allies to guarantee. This is the fastest way to gain IC without taking out a major nation. Poland has 9 MIC/ 1 NIC/ 17 CIC. If you can annex them in 1936 it is the biggest IC gain under these circumstances. But you will have to trade for ressources. It is in no way competetive and you might instead consider an early Sealion or attack on France. To do so prepare wargoal on ENG at 50 PP and the next 50 PP goal on NED. Declare simultaneously as always. Landings in Dover or the channel are dangerous, as you might run into the RN. Choose east coast right over London or further north.Don't forget to prepare invasionplan early and send your navy in the naval regions for planning trigger. Don't land more than 24 divisions. You don't need more and you might loose some while invading. Sacrifice your ships if neccessary. Place the rest of your army near the French and Belgium border as France might be invited to Allies. Don't forget the inf spam trick. Take out France if they enter Allies to shut down all european harbors for allied navies asap. You can easily own Ned without resistance. You will need police troops for UK (and France if they joined the Allies). If you win, which is pretty easy, the game is won if you are not retarded.

What's the difference to the 'almost historical' approach?
A lot. Coming soon. Perhaps.


5. Summary of changes
The following statements have been changed due to optimization.

-Changed advise on going for CIC or MIC:
Do not build civilian industry!
Why? Way more expensive than military industry. Germany has enough CIC to trade ressources and have a decent buildup. After 39 we have enough factories of any kind. Building CIC from the start is a huge gamble that in the long run this investment will pay off: you might be to weak in the early war.
-Added following comment to the "Upgrade or uil MIC" tip:
With 38+ techs you can fill all factory slots with MIC really fast!
-Changed many things in the Step-By-Step section to focus CIC spam
-Changed "With the first 150 political power add Schacht as advisor." to free trade instead, which comes with an extra 9% research speed. You won't need that many ressources in the first year(s).
-Added SWE as early wargoal in the ahistorical, gamey apporach
-Adjustments all over the guide to make sure noone is building only MIC/CIC without knowing the trade off.
-General tips section expanded
-Typos...
-Introduced ahistorical part two
-Changes and additions to most parts of the guide. Typos.
-Addition to ahistorical alternative 'early sealion'
-Addition to division template recommandation with SPART in line inf and tank divisions
 
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Is the Fieldhospital really necessary for GER?

The more you fight, the more men you will loose. The later you have to switch to a higher draft, the later you loose some of the factory output. I usually take out all of europe (POL/DEN/NOR/NED/BEL/LUX/FRA/HUN/BUL/YUG/GRE/ROM, sometimes ESP/POR if Nationalists fail to win, sometimes SWE too). Before Barbarossa. Before Barbarossa I mostly fight with INF. This reduces the losses like a lot.

You are right, this is worth a discussion. It's a trade of.

how do i send my airforce like in real life condor legion? I know i can send 2 or 3 divisions but no idea how to send my airforce

You need to disband all your airwings. You can only send equipment from stash, not airwings itself. It will generate air exp for you if you give spain all your old planes. You can add it in the LandLease dialog.
 
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Refineries are a bad deal, 73% more expensive than civilian factories which are of course are far more flexible

Export focus - (8750 / 0.8 ) = 10937
5 oil+2 rubber vs 8x - (10937 *8) / 7 = 12500

12500 / 7200 = 1.736

Trading for oil is much much better, and by the time you start losing trading partners you gain oil from new territories
 
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On Anschluss and Czech national focus

If Austria is going down the industrial route (75% of the time imo) you probably should not do the Anschluss as the third national focus, because the free national focus factories are worth more than the annexed factories could produce in 70 days. The Czechs usually also go Industrial but not as high a rate as the Austrians in my experience.

Also it might be possible to get Anschluss as the second focus (if Austria is not going the Industrial path) with careful micromanagement, I got close but I'll do some tests at some point
 
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On division comp, the following has worked very well for me (at affordable prices)
[8 MOUNT][8 ART] - +rec +eng +main +log +field
When there is enough med tanks swap a mountain for a tank to gain amour and piercing bonuses.

I'm most on the fence about the field hospital, I'm hoping the overall higher overall experience is worth the cost. I'd swap it with support artillery if not.

It's mobile version with MOT INF and MOT RART also work well, and are still very good value
 
Refineries are a bad deal, 73% more expensive than civilian factories which are of course are far more flexible

Export focus - (8750 / 0.8 ) = 10937
5 oil+2 rubber vs 8x - (10937 *8) / 7 = 12500

12500 / 7200 = 1.736

Trading for oil is much much better, and by the time you start losing trading partners you gain oil from new territories

You forget to take the excavation technologies into account. Already in '39, the yield for each synthetic oil plant can be 6.5 oil and 2.6 rubber. That's 9.1 resources. You usually get 8 resources for each factory exporting consumer goods. Plus, when playing Germany "naughty-Adolf-style", there really is no other place to get rubber from after may '40. At least not until someone takes care of that stupid Royal Navy.
 
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Trading for oil is much much better, and by the time you start losing trading partners you gain oil from new territories
This:
there really is no other place to get rubber from after may '40

There is no reliable source of rubber for Germany after Danzig. If you really try to keep RAF out of your airspace you need rubber. Don't forget your MOT/MECH.

On division comp

My division composition is due to my whole strategy. I don't want to keep all the different techs up to date and since now I wasn't able to produce all the different equipment. My focus is on finishing of SOV till 42-43 and in each following year dealing with UK and USA. Therefore I need up to date material in the following order:
  1. Industry techs (to efficiently produce all the stuff)
  2. ARM techs
  3. INF techs
  4. INT techs
  5. Land doctrines
  6. Electronics
  7. Air doctrines
  8. Ship techs
  9. Ship doctrines
Not to mention tech race for nukes, CV and bomber force. What I can easily skip are specialists like MOU/MAR or SPG. I know how powerfull they are, but before SOV is gone I concentrate on this setup. After that it really doesn't matter any more...

New With my playstlye i replaced the Support Artillery with a signal company,

Yes I currently trying to do so, too. Although I must say that up to date tank techs are enough to win the decisive battles.
 
Can we get a rough time line of how many factories producing what, this all results in?
At least pre 1942.

I`m kind of sceptical on not building civilian factories, as those allow phenomenal pace of deployment of military IC after 1939.

It is also kind of strange that nobody proposed logistical companies, I had rather large problems while pushing into USSR.
 
Can we get a rough time line of how many factories producing what, this all results in?
At least pre 1942.

I can upload some savegames or do some screens. Expect it to happen in the next days. If not, remind my lazy ass... :rolleyes:

I`m kind of sceptical on not building civilian factories, as those allow phenomenal pace of deployment of military IC after 1939.
Correct. You can build a lot more mil IC after 39. Till then, your production is way lower. And I mean really lower. Like much.

There was a thread out there that did the math. Let me get it to you roughly from my memory:
Civ IC costs about 7200 'units of work or what they are called'
Mil IC costs about 3600.

The more Civ IC you build, the more are used for consumer goods pre war.
The effectivity of Civ IC can't be pushed like the one of Mil IC.

Let's assume you can build 10 Civ IC from 36-39.
Then you can have 20 Mil IC till 39. And most of it came to use much earlier, as it is finished faster.
Faster added Mil IC gains effectiveness the longer it runs, Civ IC does not. This can be pushed by techs even more.

After 39 you gain 100+ Civ IC. This gain dwarves the amount you built before.

Against a human player you don't stand a chance by building Civ IC, as you will most likely fail to protect your skies. This way even against AI it will be hard to stop RAF from raping your country. Pretty historical, though...

Perhaps I'm totally getting the math wrong, but I don't believe that under any circumstances Civ IC spamming is more effective for Germany than spamming Mil IC.
 
Why not get Hungary, Bulgaria, Greece(through focus) and Turkey into the Axis? I use them as extra manpower it's great. This also allows Italy to focus fully on Africa, gives a land route to both Africa and the Caucasus and even Siberia if you attack Iran.
I also like to go full CIC until halfway 1938 to be able to mass produce MIC and other buildings I need for the rest of the game. You start with 40 MIC so you can far outproduce everyone until they catch up at which time you can outproduce them in building MIC's.
I wait for Anschluss until the Austrians have taken their industrial focusses which they usual do. Keep an eye on if they like you. Sometimes they hate you and the will result in them becoming more defensive and even sometimes not wanting to Anschluss (a-historical AI)
With my a bit slower built I do conquer the Netherlands as fast as possible. I think you can invade early 1937 and use the resources to strengthen your economy. RN can't do shit when you are not at war. Furthermore, I boost Sweden for supplying me with Tungsten(and later joining the war) and Siam(will conquer Indo China, Malaysia and keep India busy.
Depending on how the human UK plays I sometimes even like to get Poland and Baltics on my side for extra manpower. Conquering France , Tjech, Yugo and Romania will give you plenty of IC anyway. If you help Japan out by sending him infantry equipment and some tank divisions he will be able to conquer China at the time you subdued mainland Europe. From there on you kill Soviets and end with UK and US.
As long as there is no friendly port to launch into I feel the US can't do a lot because you can land only so few divisions. (10 until 1940 tech and 45(?) after)
You can easily spare a hundred divisions to defend the Atlantik wall. (no port = failed invasion)
 
If you wait until the end of 1937 to annex Austria, the AI usually has time to finish first both the CIC/MIC lines, maybe even get the last +2CIC one. The AI is not making anything truly wasteful anyways, even interwar planes are good cannon fodder.

If they are going political/military, then annex them fast.

As a general note, ahistorical wars must be started before The Marco Polo Bridge Incident, beause (if the SCW is concluded) that brings the World Tension above 40%, enough for the UK to guarantee your target.
 
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through focus

Sometimes it bugs if you wage ahistoric wars. On the other hand this is more about gaining IC and ressources asap. Having them in the Axis has it's pros, annexing them has it's pros, too. I like the IC/ressources as I can spare a bit IC for CAV/MP to controll them.

I wait for Anschluss until the Austrians have taken their industrial focusses which they usual do.

How long does it take till they get it and what's the amount of additional IC's gained?

I guess I would rather go for 15 IC in 06/36 than for 18 in 01/37.

I think you can invade early 1937

You can invade earlier. Not much, like 3-5 Month earlier, but still. And yes, the ressources free up a lot of CIC that you can spent for even more MIC spam.

I also like to go full CIC until halfway 1938 to be able to mass produce MIC

Still, my question holds. How many CIC do you build and when does it start to overtake normal MIC spam? See the section about this topic in #14. Without further information it is still pretty obvious that MIC is better when your game is over by 45.
 
If you wait until the end of 1937 to annex Austria, the AI usually has time to finish first both the CIC/MIC lines, maybe even get the last +2CIC one. The AI is not making anything truly wasteful anyways, even interwar planes are good cannon fodder.

If they are going political/military, then annex them fast.

As a general note, ahistorical wars must be started before The Marco Polo Bridge Incident, beause (if the SCW is concluded) that brings the World Tension above 40%, enough for the UK to guarantee your target.
Sorry but i disagree.
First of all,
Austria has 4 military Factories at Start and 10 Civilian ones. It dosnt matter which fokus they chosed, its always better to annex them as soon as possible. Base Output is 5 per unit, so 50 output per day with 70 days for a fokus it means you will lose 3500 production for civilian and 1400 production of military goods. And this is without modifier. SO if you wait around 5 more other decisions - around 1 year which is mid 37 you will lose 17500 civiian production and 7000 military production depending on your fokus on buildup this is at least more than 2 Civilian Factories (and this is much lower than the real value due to missing modifier).

And for ahistorical, you want the factories and ressources asap and you will never wait until Marco Polo and ofc your own action pushes the world tension really fast to 25%+
 
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I can upload some savegames or do some screens. Expect it to happen in the next days. If not, remind my lazy ass... :rolleyes:


Correct. You can build a lot more mil IC after 39. Till then, your production is way lower. And I mean really lower. Like much.

There was a thread out there that did the math. Let me get it to you roughly from my memory:
Civ IC costs about 7200 'units of work or what they are called'
Mil IC costs about 3600.

The more Civ IC you build, the more are used for consumer goods pre war.
The effectivity of Civ IC can't be pushed like the one of Mil IC.

Let's assume you can build 10 Civ IC from 36-39.
Then you can have 20 Mil IC till 39. And most of it came to use much earlier, as it is finished faster.
Faster added Mil IC gains effectiveness the longer it runs, Civ IC does not. This can be pushed by techs even more.

After 39 you gain 100+ Civ IC. This gain dwarves the amount you built before.

Against a human player you don't stand a chance by building Civ IC, as you will most likely fail to protect your skies. This way even against AI it will be hard to stop RAF from raping your country. Pretty historical, though...

Perhaps I'm totally getting the math wrong, but I don't believe that under any circumstances Civ IC spamming is more effective for Germany than spamming Mil IC.
Well, this is why I asked for your factories total ;)

In a historical scenario I tend to hit around 120ish military factories by start of war, including around 20 synthetic refineries.

Issue, at least from my perspective, is that you will have to both use a lot of your civilian industry for consumer goods, as the requirement is (number of civilian + number of military) * civilian upkeep percentage, so by spamming military factories, your amount of civilian industry available for further build up will tank rather fast, which is why I want to see the totals.

In my experience, I managed to fill all the German+Austrian+Czech factory slots by mid-1943.