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Mortheim

General Borsh of Küche Army
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Feb 14, 2012
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Hello! Welcome to my thread with suggestions for Russia now and Russian minors later! Feel free to add something useful or ask questions!


Last update: New trade goods.

Next Update: ???

After Next Update: ???



CONTENT:

0) Make Third Rome Great Again:
0.1) Alternative Parliament and Horde Rulership;
0.2) Additional ideas for changes;

1) Artillery in Tsardom of Russia

2) Oprichnina:
2.1) Oprichnina as disaster and first part of information about Oprichnina;

3) Suggestion about ideas for Russia and Duchies.
3.1) Another attempt;

4) (Bad) Idea for Orthodox Mecahnic based on leader-traits system in Rights of Man.

5) Streltsy:
5.1) Infromation about Streltsy;
5.2) Starting information about modifiers for Streltsy;
5.3) Modifiers related to streltsy and first description;

6) Important figures:
6.1) Sophia Palaiologos - wife of Ivan III;
6.2) Aloiso the new - architect;
6.3) Stroganov Dynasty;
6.4) Ivan Grozniy:
a) relatives and death of father;

7) Changes to map:
7.1) Opochka, Rusa and Velikie Luki;
7.2) Solovetsky Monastery;
7.3) Yuriev-Polskiy, Pereyaslavl-Zalesskiy and other unpronouncing Russian cities jk: and Dmitrov.
7.4) Neighbours:
a) Kazan;
b) Great Horde;
c) North Great Horde;
d) South Great Horde;
e) Crimea;
7.5) Alternative Trade Goods;
7.5.1) Map of Mineral Riches for European Part of Russia, middle of 19th century;

8) German Quarters;

9) Time of Troubles;

10) Moscow Civil War;

11) Zasechnaya Cherta;
11.1) Some information;
11.2) Bolshaya Zasechnaya Cherta;

12) Missions:
12.1) Some information on Integrationa of Principalities;
12.2) Mission Tree for Muscovy/Russia;
12.3) Train of thought;

13) Rulers (short):
13.1) Vasiliy II has low stats;
13.2) Why Ivan III has underrated stats;
 
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Another small update:
Muscovy should have iron as trade good.
Reasoning:
1) Muscovy was biggest producer of weapons in Russia until 17th century (and even later it was still pretty important);
2) Barberini, in his work, mentions city of Cossira (Кашира, Kashira) in his letter to his father, and says, that there is "huge iron and steel mines" (it can be reasoned that this place belongs to Tula and Ryazan, but in 1483 it became part of Muscovy, and was controlled by Muscovy earlier);
3) it was among Russian centers of blacksmith (list is pretty small: Moscow, Ustujna-Zheleznoploska, Veliky Ustyug, Tula, Yaroslavl, Nizhny Novgorod);


Interesting fact: Ustujna-Zheleznoploska in 16th century had two times higher number of smiths than Tula. We are talking about "independent" smiths, not about state smiths.
 
Do you have any additional info about Odoyev?

Odoyev represents at least three smaller principalities and some other small cities. You want to know about them all? xD It is pretty pointless, cause they were just trying to survive, so, often, selling themselve to their bigger neighbours. Practically they were independant for pretty long time, while being practically vassals of Muscovy and Lithuania.
 
Do you have any additional info about Odoyev?

If you know Russianm, you can read "Беспалов Р. А. Новосильско-Одоевское княжество и Орда в контексте международных отношений в Восточной Европе XIV – начала XVI веков (2014)" xD
 
So, i was thinking about one interesting aspect of start date: Civil War of 1425-1453 (it is known in english sources as Great Feudal War and Muscovite Civil War).



Cause practically all main participants has similar names, here are references to names:
Vasily II, oldest son of Vasiliy I and grandson of Dmitry Donskoy - The Blind (he is not blind at the start of the story).
Yury Dmitrievich, third son of Dmitry Donskoy - The Pretender.
Vasily Yrievuch, oldest son of Yury Dmitrievich - The Squint.
Dmitry Urievich, second son of Yury Dmitrievich - The 3-4-3 or The Shemiaka (we don't know how he got this nickname, but there are two main theories - first it is from tatar word for rich outfit, jewelry; second is "someone who can give a good beating", strongman).



First part, where The Pretender and his sons beats crap out of The Blind.
1389: Dmitry Donskoy in his will apointed his third son, Yury Dmitrievich(The Pretender), as heir to his oldest son, Vasily I Dmitrievich. So, after death of Vasily I, Yury could claim Great Duchy bypassing Vasily II (The Blind, son of Vasily I).
1428: The Pretender aknowledge his nephew The Blind as "eldest brother" therefore losing his claims on throne.
1431: The Pretender tries to get yarlik (right to rule) from khan, but yarlik goes to The Blind.
1433: During The Blind's wedding his mother, Sophia, tore off golden waistband from The Pretender's son The Squint (this waistband was allegebly given to Dmitry Donskoy as dowry during his wedding with Evdokya Dmitrievna, but was replaced by one high-ranked general and through marriages got to The Squint, the whole story considered fake so they would have reason to deal with one traitor and insult Yury).
So, sons of The Pretender decided to go to father to Uglich plundering Yaroslavl (patrimony of Vasiliy II) on their way. Obviously The Pretender sided with his sons and defeated army of Great Kniaz The Blind on Klyazma. The Blind ran to Tver and, after, to Kostroma. The Pretender gave to his nephew (The Blind) principality of Kolomna and started to rule in Moscow. But boyars and service class people (people who served to state in administration or army) weren't really into Yury, so a lot of them ran to Kolomna. Both sons of The Pretender also joined The Blind in Kolomna, cause they quarelled with father. So, The Pretender decided to step back and give throne to The Blind again.
1434: Repressions towards older rivals of The Blind, that followed, forced sons of The Pretender to fight. They defeated The Blind at river Kus'. Later The Pretender himself joined, cause Great Kniaz forces sacked Galich. And, again, The Blind was defeated (under Rostov). The Pretender, again, took Moscow, but died soon (at that time people believed that he was poisoned) and bequathing throne to The Blind.



This looks like gangster wars, but all those feudal wars were like that lel.
Now, to the next part, where The Blind beats crap out of The Squint and gives him such nickname.
1434: The Squint doesn't want to accept this situation and declares himself Great Kniaz, his brothers didn't support him and concluded peace with The Blind (The Shemiaka got Uglich and Rzhev, third son of Pretender got Galich and Bezhetsk). When armies of those approached Moscow, The Squint took his father's treasury and escpaed to Novgorod.
After month and a half in Novgorod, The Squint went to Zavolochie, then to Kostroma, after which he went with army to Moscow.
1435: The Squint was defeated on river Kotorosl near Yaroslavl (i think you see, who was THE GENERAL in their family ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)). He escaped to Vologda.
1436: In Vologda he gathered new forces and marched on Rostov, during which he took Nerehta (pretty rich city, which was razed in 1609). The Blind concentrated his forces in Rostov.
His ally, knyaz of Yaroslavl Alexander Fyodorovich, was defending - guess whoch city - Yaroslavl from part of The Squint's army. But he lost and was captured with his wife. Huge ransom was payed, but they were released much later.
The Squint wanted to surprise The Blind, but the latter leaved Rostov and took position in the way to Rostov. The Squint was defeated on river Chereh 14th may 1436. He was captured and blinded, after that he got his nickname (hint - the squint).
The Blind then released The Shemiaka, which was kept in captivity in Kolomna. All lands wre returned to the latter.
1440: The Shemiaka inherits his youngest brothers lands (Bezhetsk and Galich).



Third part, in which it all comes to the conclusion.
1445: The Blind was defeated and captured after his defeat under Suzdal to khan of Kazan - Ulu-Muhammed. Because of traditional inheritance - The Shemiaka became new Great Kniaz of Moscow. The Blind, freaked out, promises ransom to khan, gets army and marches to Moscow. In this case, practically all people (including merchants, boyars, clergy etc) supported The Shemiaka - they were outraged by "horde general" The Blind.
1446: With help of those dissatisfied with The Blind's behavior - The Shemiaka becomes Great Kniaz. With help of former supporter of The Blind, Ivan Andreevich of Mozhaisk, they were able to capture The Blind during church service, which the latter visited in Trinity Lavra os st. Sergius (this monastery is dedicated to st. Sergius, who blessed Dmitry Donskoy on battle with tatars). The Shemiaka accused The Blind in cooperation with tatars and blinded him (also, this was also revenge for his brother - The Squint). So The Blind was sent to Uglich and, then, to Vologda. But, after some time, a lot of dissatisfied by The Shemiaka started to com to The Blind. Among most noticable are: Boris Alexandrovich, Great Kniaz of Tver; Vasily Yaroslavovich, kniaz of Serpukhov-Borovsky (territory between Tula, Kaluga and Moscow); Alexander Fyodorovich, kniaz of Yaroslavl; Ivan Ivanovich, kniaz of Starodub; and a lot of others. On 25th december Moscow was taken by army of The Blind while The Shemiaka was absent from capital.
1447: On 17th February The Blind entered Moscow. The Shemiaka was near Volokolamsk at that moment, so he decided to retreat. First, to Galich, then - to Chuhloma. He was continuing fighting The Blind.
1447-1449: Standstill. During this time The Blind stroke deal with Casimir IV, which confirmed border between Lithuania and Muscovy, both parties agreed not to support internal enemies of each other, also Casimir gave up claims on Novgorod and Pskov (Tver stayed in sphere of Lithuania, but not for long, and Rzhev was given to Tver), Ryazan and Tver were devlared "free to act as they want", Verkhovskie Knyazhestva (Odoyev) stayed in sphere of Lithuania.
1450: On 27th January The Shemiaka was defeated under Galich. Then - under Ustyug.
1452: The Shemiaka was surrounded by armies of The Blind, lost his domains and escaped to Novgorod. There he died in 1453 (rumoured to be poisoned by supporters of The Blind).
1456: Treaty of Jazhelbitsy was stroke, in which Novgorod practically lost its independance;



So, what we see from those events:
1) Shemiaka shouldn't be general (i can find another name, if you need, cause there were a lot of good generals);
2) Vasiliy II was GREAT diplomat and administrator, but poor general, still 3-1-2, so he should be buffed to 3-3-2 at least;
3) seriously, losing Moscow so many times...



And a little bit about Treaty of Jazhelbitsy. There were two different documents - one for Moscow, one for Novgorod. Both were different.
Document for Novgorod had this important points:
1) Novgorod couldn't have its own foreign affairs and pass laws;
2) Grreat Kniaz became "supreme court" for Novgorod;
3) Signet of Veche and its appointed mayors was replaced by signet of Great Kniaz;
4) Novgorod shouldn't give shelter to enemies of Vasiliy II.


Most of points were respected by both sides. But Novgorod still gave shelter to enemies of Knyaz and Vasiliy resolved trials in favor of muscovite boyars, who got domains in Novgorodian land through this.
So, maybe, instead of conquering we should give quest on vassalization? Not sure thou. It is like with Mamluks in the end - whole state was annexed after in one war. But, with some good decisions, you should be able to maintain good relations and integrate Novgorod.



Also, idea - adding Volok Lamsky. This will split Kaluga in half, but will represent importance of the city which stand on trade route from Ryazan and Moscow to Novgorod, had a lot of stone buildings (including frotress with big mansion - whic represents its wealth) and was one of the strategic points between duchies of Novgorod, Tver and Moscow. It also was capital of specific principality during reign of Vasiliy II.





To the contents.
 
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So, what we see from those events:
1) Shemiaka shouldn't be general (i can find another name, if you need, cause there were a lot of good generals);
Fedor Basenok is suitable. He become a voevod in 1447 (not far from game start) and defeated the Shemiaka several times. Besides, he is already in the game, just need to make him general from 1444.

2) Vasiliy II was GREAT diplomat and administrator, but poor general, still 3-1-2, so he should be buffed to 3-3-2 at least;
And you get 3-2-1 :D
But seriously, i support this change.
 
And you get 3-2-1 :D
But seriously, i support this change.

You know, Johm Hunyadi is 5-4-5 and i can't say that he in administrative and diplomatic fields Vasiliy II was worser. Considering, what Vasiliy II did is:
1) practically all smalle principalities were eliminated;
2) increased influence on Novgorod, Pskov, Viatka;
3) first independant metropolitan bishop was elected during his reign (reason - Vasiliy II wanted indepandance from anyone);
4) centrilized state;
5) stroke pretty good deal with Duchy of Lithuania;
6) got rid practically from all claimants;

Overall - he was top level diplomat. He was able to pursuade two Kazanian princes to help him and, after that, one of them (Kasim) became his loyal vassal. Kasim's son, Daniyar, participated in battle of Alexin and Stand on the Ugra river.
Three times Moscow was taken during his reign and three times Vasily II came back with help of others, who didn't want to serve under another kniaz.
Top deal with Novgorod also.



To the contents.
 
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You know, Johm Hunyadi is 5-4-5 and i can't say that he in administrative and diplomatic fields Vasiliy II was worser. Considering, what Vasiliy II did is:
1) practically all smalle principalities were eliminated;
2) increased influence on Novgorod, Pskov, Viatka;
3) first independant metropolitan bishop was elected during his reign (reason - Vasiliy II wanted indepandance from anyone);
4) centrilized state;
5) stroke pretty good deal with Duchy of Lithuania;
6) got rid practically from all claimants;

Overall - he was top level diplomat. He was able to pursuade two Kazanian princes to help him and, after that, one of them (Kasim) became his loyal vassal. Kasim's son, Daniyar, participated in battle of Alexin and Stand on the Ugra river.
Three times Moscow was taken during his reign and three times Vasily II came back with help of others, who didn't want to serve under another kniaz.
Top deal with Novgorod also.
I agree that Vasiliy II underrated ruler. What about Fedor Basenok?

Also, have you seen this? Something related to Russia from dev clash. "Russia" patch confirmed?;)
 
Also, have you seen this? Something related to Russia from dev clash. "Russia" patch confirmed?;)

Commented on this in another thread :3



Also, faced huge problem with steppe cities - most of known cities were razed by Timur or some of khans, which leaves us with pretty small number of centers and steppe... I really think now that colonizing horde provinces was good mechanic.
 
I accidentaly redone Kazan...I've used Vadim Egorov "Geography of Golden Horde" and some works that use it or refer (i really lost most, cause i was searching and reading as fast as possible).
Red are new borders.
Yellow are names for cities.
Black points are positions of cities.

Some points:
Atemar in Penza should be renamed to Mohshi. Even if city was destroyed it is still more suitable.
Kanadey was on another side between Samara and Narovchat (Mohshi). If you want to have province of Kanadey...well, can't help you with that - no sources.
Yar Calli (Ar Chally) is city of Nabarezhnie Chelny, so they should be moved.
Bulgar appears on a lot of maps from that time, so we can claim that is still was around, but without former glory.
Most sources claim, that Kazan was devasted after war with Russia in 1551. A lot of settlements were lost. And it was able to fight Moscow 1 on 1 in 1445 and win.
Veda-Suvar should be Veda-Suar, cause Suvar is different city that was razed before 1444.

sR36BXA.jpg

Elabuga - 2-2-1, grain.
Juketau - 2-2-2, grain.
Real Yar Calli - 2-3-1, grain.
Tetyushi - 2-2-3, fish or grain.
Kanadey - 2-3-1, grain.
Bulgar - 2-2-2, grain.

Sorry for those goods. Historically those regions were pretty rich on producing food earlier and later in the time period. It is plain with forest and steppes after all...


To the contents.
 
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Golden Horde had a lot of cities. Until Timur came. Only two cities of GH weren't razed. This post will be updated sometimes.


So, some suggestion:

1) Majar - development should be increased.
Reasons: it had right to mint coins and a lot of monumental brick buildings.

2) Sarai - should be renamed to Sarai Berke and position should be moved. Latest researches show us, that it was positioned near Selitrennoe. You can read Пачкалов А. В. "К вопросу о местоположении Старого Сарая" and Евстратов И. В. "О золотоордынских городах, находившихся на местах Селитренного и Царёвского городищ".
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KqXffqW.jpg

3) Tsaritsyn should be renamed to Beljamen with same capital. It is argued where it was - instead of Volgograd or near it in village Dubovka. Still, Tsaritsyn appeared only in 1589.

4) Kasimov (at that time - Gorodez Meshersky) was known for its forests and swamps. Control of "Kasimov" by clergy is strange, cause it was practiclly vassal state with Grand Duke's Of Moscow own tatar (idea was to "Fight fire with fire").

5) Yaik rename to Jaiyk. It was pretty old settlement, that appeared in second half of 14th century. Also, city should be moved a little bit south.

6) Tatartup can be added as GH province between Kabardia and Terek.
hzxI3lJ.jpg




To the contents.
 
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So, with delving into Ural and Siberia we can't skip one interesting dynasty that, practically, created Russia as we know it today. Of course we will talk about Stroganovs and conquering of Siberia.
Their story is interesting: it all started when Fyodor Stroganov came to Saltvychegodsk (in Ustyug province in EU4). He had four sons: Stephan, Osip, Vladimir and Anikey. Only last one matters to us.

Anikey_Stroganov.jpg

This youngest son baught 1/3 of saltwarks and place in 1526 (he was 27 then). In 1540 he baught saltwarks with place. He was so rich and important, that Ivan IV trusted Anikey to oversee trade with English and Russian merchants, he also should made reports about trading in wood, and he collected and stored grain obrok.
With his sons (Jacob, Gregory and Simon) he increased his wealth even more: foundind frofitable saltwarks in Kola, trading for fur with natives, trading salt with foreigners. He orginized plenty of expeditions beyond Ural to search for fur and people to trade with. With his money he also baught a lot of land on Russian North. In 1557 he was at court reporting about routes to Sibirea and trade opportunities. For this he asked lands on Kama river, which, as he said, "weren't settled" and promised to settle. And those lands were granted! He left his youngest, Simon, in Saltvychegodsk and founded two settlements with his other two sons: Orel-gorodok and Camgort.
When he became too old he decided to take vows and became monk taking name of Iosaf.

Yellow line - lands that were granted to Anikey.
Red line - lands, that were settled.
Black dot - Orel-gorodok.
Orange dot - Camgort.

cWfqaoY.jpg

Interesting fact: when grandchildren of Anikey and his son decided to split their lands they've compiled all what Stroganov family had. Size of land was tremendeous alone: more than 9 millions hectares.

Not only greatd bussinesmen, but great colonizators, Stroganovs built a lot of small fortresses (lnown as "gorodki" or "ostrogi") in Great Perm to defend against locals who weren't happy with colonization of their lands. Most of the times locals were captured and used as workforce or, sometimes, they just went deeper in forests. Using different exemptions Stroganov family attracted people (mostly free peasants) to their land.
Siberian han Kuchum also posed great threat to their lands. So, grandchildren of Anikey and his son decided to call cossack band that was raiding using Volga and Caspian sea. And they, and their leader Ermak, came to those rich landowners. So Stroganovs prepared all for such campaign and gave it Ermak to deal with Siberian Khanate. Not only food and weapons were given, but also additional men (number of 300 is most agreed upon) and boats. All these costed them 20000 rubles. This was pretty huge cost for such endeavour (it is like paying a year wage for 10k streltsy).
While Ermak was conquering Siberia for Stroganovs, their land were attacked by Bahbeley, kniaz of Pelym. He came first time in 1581 and was pretty succesful, but two of Stroganovs gathered thair forces and defeated him. In 1582 all three older Stroganovs gathered forces and chaced him till some ravine, where he was defeated and killed.
In 1583 Ivan IV was informed about campaign and raids on Stroganovs and was pretty unhappy, sending wrathful letter to two of Stroganovs. They were pretty afreid of that, but, soon, they got news from Ermak, where he reported that he won some battles and all is going well. Those two, Maxim (son of Jacob) and Nikita (son of Grigory) decided to go to court and explain what good it will bring. They described what it will bring to country and tsar and asked to "take it under highest hand". After them came envoy from Ermak, which told about further successes. Tsar was pretty happy with all that and changed his wraith to benefaction, sending additional troops to Ermak (guess who paid for their food and boats, huh). And this is how conquest of Sibir started.

So, i have suggestion for event so Russia will get Siberia somewhat faster. It will deal with Stroganov dynasty and how colonization started. You will be able to give them lands in your provinces in exchange for colonist or colonist growth. You will get modifier: "Stroganov lands" in Perm, Udmurtia, Kudymkar, Ustyug, Viatka, Kola, Shenkursk and Solikamsk which lowers tax and manpower from province by 25%, gives 10% goods produced and flags it for future events.
Later you will get event connected to Ermak, during which you could take all their lands back to state and get cash or lose some manpower+cash while getting Ermak as conquistador 3-3-3-1 and, maybe, small army. This will trigger event where you will be able to grant Tura, Pelym, Berezov, Obdorsk.
Disaster comes later to the game and i will write about it later.





To the contents.
 
Updated posts about changes to map in Russian Heartlands and Kazan.
To Kazan: added approximate development and trade goods.
To Russia: added some pretty important cities near Tver and Muscovy.
 
For Kazan: adding Mari and Mordvin peoples onto the map would be great, aspecially to Cheboksary. One of these peoples have retained their Suomenusko religion up intil today (although nominally Orthodox).
 
For Kazan: adding Mari and Mordvin peoples onto the map would be great, aspecially to Cheboksary. One of these peoples have retained their Suomenusko religion up intil today (although nominally Orthodox).


IIRC, PDX won't create one or two province cultures. Giving them more provinces is questionable.
 
I'm in loss. What should i wrote about next...

I'm too lazy to go through the whole thread so dunno if you wrote about it.
I think that period of Ekaterina Velikaya should be highlighted more. For example events regarding Potemkin and foundation of Odessa etc. I think that it was an hugely important part of our history as influence in the Black Sea region changed hands.
If we're talking about this then I think that there's lack of events regarding Turkish wars.
 
I'm too lazy to go through the whole thread so dunno if you wrote about it.
I think that period of Ekaterina Velikaya should be highlighted more. For example events regarding Potemkin and foundation of Odessa etc. I think that it was an hugely important part of our history as influence in the Black Sea region changed hands.
If we're talking about this then I think that there's lack of events regarding Turkish wars.

Tbh i played past 17th century once - when i was doing WC. So, i'm not sure how many people will see those events. Mostly, i focus on start dates, because they were as defining as Peter the Great. What Vasily II, Ivan the Great and, to some degree, Vasily III railroaded Russia for Ivan IV, who was able to wage war on two and a half fronts for 25 years, went through Oprichnina, face Time of Troubles and, after that, again became one of the Great Powers. If not for Livonian War, against which closest advisors of Ivan the Terrible were against, all could went much better for Russia (losing practically half of population during period from Livonian till end Time of Troubles).
 
Next patch could be "Russia", so it gave me modifier "Inspired" which gives me more morale, so, during 4-day holidays (9th of may, i remind you), i will translate article "Janissaries of Ivan the Terrible" that was posted on warspot site. Anyone who knows Russian language can read first pat here, second part here, third part here. I was checking them and they are prettu accurate from what i and my helper could say (i'm just fan with a lot of books and my helper has degree in Russian history). I can't say when it will be posted, but i will try it to do asap. With that i will post additional information about changes to lands behind Ural.


Cheers!


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cDip9WQ.jpg
 
A post about improving Muscovy/Russia for a bit. So large that I don't know when I'll finish it.
If you're Mortheim/al.gb, please read and comment it. I want to know what parts are true, what are not and why are not, since my proposals are a bit different.
If you speak Russian, посмотрите/почитайте/послушайте разведопросы Гоблина с Климом Жуковым. Мои взгляды по этой теме отчасти происходят из выпусков: о русском военном деле в постмонгольский период; о битве на Куликовом поле; о принципах внешнего воздействия; о взятии Казани; выпуски по Ивану Грозному (где говорилось о невиданных размерах его армии). Это, безусловно, не первоисточники, но позволяет получить представление без сотен часов личного перекапывания сотен источников - потому использовал их как опору.

Alert! Early access! Open this spoiler at your own risk!
So, with some probable rework of patriarchies in 1.22, keeping in mind Mortheim's efforts to make Muscovy great again, I suppose there will be some Eastern European rework.
I am neither a historian, nor an average Paradox fan who knows when did the third wife of 17th duke of Gascogne die. Actually, before I started playing EU4, I knew nothing about Vasiliy II, the last duke of Burgundy, Teutonic Order becoming Prussia et cetera. But, basing on my little knowledge of history, I suspect Muscovy -> Russia are represented in EU4 horribly.

I also suspect that Russian history is just unknown to Paradox. And that they for some, unknown to me, reasons don't want to spend their time on studying it. All their games I know about fail at representing Russians.

CK2 strange spots.
  • Novgorodian and Pskovian republics are neither merchant (historically, Novgorod was part of Hansa) nor Rurikovich.
  • Novgorod is independent from Golden Horde.
  • Alexander Nevskiy (the one who stopped Teutonic Order and made Novgorod Mongolian vassal) is missing from Novgorod history.
  • Golden Horde lacks its jarligs on Russian knyazdom(s) - viceroyalties.
  • Agnatic seniority (1054-1097) is missing from Russian knyazdoms.
  • But instead we have some really strange culture split in 769 start. Three different cultures I never heard of. Also, no Kryvian culture, with Kryvians being the main Slavic tribal union for some time before CK2 (as far as I know), but Severian and Ilmemian (the ones who called themselves Slovenes).
  • Murom county is outside of de jure Murom dukedom.
  • Rurik's in-game capital is Novgorod instead of Ladoga.
  • Oleg/Helgi is Rurik's son in CK2.
  • Oleg the Prophet (Вещий Олег) does not have his nickname while Askold and Dir Oskold Dyre/Dyre the Stranger has one (a bit more arguable than Oleg's).
  • Dyre's campaign (860) to Constantinople is restricted by game rules - no boats.
HOI4. Alert! Contains pain!
Looking at HOI4 soviet focus tree, I want to cry. It's not 100% awful, but I suspect its creator spent 3 or 4 hours on researching the Soviet 1936-1948 history.
  • Claim Sinkiang is impossible without giving North Sakhalin to Japan. Why?
  • Transformation of Nature. The post-war project of planting new forest lines is in HOI4 and gives us rubber. I suppose, US should have an "Autobahn" focus which gives them 7 mil factories.
  • We need to improve the Stalin Line to historically claim Baltic states, parts of Romania and Finland. Really? Estonia? Romania? We have to build some defense because... the claims are not historically safe, and so we can die battling Lithuania? Or they would not exist without Stalin Line?
  • What about the Molotov Line? The one that USSR started to build on its new western border? USSR had prepared for another invasion since Soviet-Polish war - if Hitler attacked later, the new line would have been built - or far more completed. But we do not have any Molotov Line focus. Even if we have enough time.
  • We need the transpolar flights. Without them, NCDI is impossible to create (IL-2 are the main reason the whole defence industry must be separated into new ministry). Without transpolar flights, Soviet Union can't wage antifascist diplomacy. Without them, Stalin Line cannot be built. It seems the main nazi threat to the entire world was Canada.
  • The Comintern can work in Britain/France only if USSR has expanded the Red fleet (which needs improved railways). This is the only way to make proletariat fight for its better future. Lazy French communists.
  • Socialist science. The main goal of the whole socialist science was to convince everyone that additional 3% of population must join the Red Army.
  • Excluding everything the "New Soviet man" theory had (it was about long-term society). Not suiciding against tanks (like Gastello did, and he's famous in Russia). Russians do not die picking enemies with themselves without this focus. A focus that affects the least important to USSR (in historical mode) aspect of war - naval. New Soviet Japanese.
  • The Great Patriotic War... wat?
Oh, come on.
You're not serious, are you?
I mean...
A fucking modifier that exists only to counter purged officers, the modifier that weakens and vanishes along with the purge modifier?
WHAT???!!!
So, according to Paradox logic, when Russia is not weakened by the Purge, the Great Patriotic War is impossible. In the country whose population defended its Revolution, whose population was to be burnt in concentration camps (I don't know if this is known in modern West, but jews weren't the only "untermenshen". There were also gypsies and slavs. ALMOST ALL SLAVS. INCLUDING RUSSIANS.), whose population remembers its Patriotic War against Napoleon, the Great Patriotic War IS ONLY A FUCKING COUNTERWEIGHT TO STALIN'S PURGES AND NOTHING MORE? SO, IF ALL OFFICERS WERE GOOD, BUT HALF OF USSR (INCLUDING POPULATION) WAS TURNED INTO DUST BY SUPERIOR MASTER RACE, DEFENCES LIKE THE ONES OF BREST FORTRESS, ODESSA, LENINGRAD, SEVASTOPOL, MOSCOW WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE (Brest fortress, Sevastopol and Leningrad really lacked supplies)? AND DURING THE STALINGRAD BATTLE IT WAS ALREADY A CASUAL WAR BECAUSE GREAT PATRIOTISM VANISHED WITH ARMY IDIOTS???!!!
What the fuck?!!!
I wonder why Russians do not have there some bear cavalry. Or General Frost with -90% to non-Soviet division stats.
So:
  1. I will try to offer my version of Russian national ideas and some events.
  2. The original versions are mostly disastrous (Well, Mortheim has already discussed them, but they're so awful I cannot stay silent). I don't know who or why could make this waste of time and code fanfiction.
The first two ideas may normally appear in game between 1453 and 1479, the second two - between 1479 and 1518, the last three - between 1518 and 1570.

Original
Traditions
  1. A little zerg. +25% national manpower.
  2. Which dreams to be big. -20% infantry cost.
Ideas
  1. Sudebnik. -15% coring cost.
    Well... it wasn't a document about establishing law on newly conquered lands. And it's not a national idea (but fits more than Oprichnina). The first Sudebnik was in power between 1487 and 1550, the second - between 1550 and 1587, the third - between 1587 and (Time of Troubles?). And then two versions of "Sobornoe Ulozhenie" were written - in 1607 and 1649. France, for example, does not have the Napoleonic Code with reduced coring cost as an idea.
  2. Found the Streltsy. +50% land force limit modifier.
    One of the best (read: least idiotic) current ideas. The Streltsy ("shooters", as Mortheim pointed) were the first regular, non-feudal troops in Russia, so taking a regular army as a constant modifier is good. For a bit. I'll propose more historical - and fitting the "national idea" title - version of this idea.
  3. Oprichnina. +10% Manpower recovery speed, -20% culture conversion cost.
    Come on. I understand Mortheim has already explained this, but. France does not have Massacre de la Saint-Barthélemy as a national idea. England does not have enclosure as a national idea. They were short-term, not 300-year long politics. So why is Oprichnina here? Why is it a national idea at post-Peter age when high nobility had large influence on czars? +10% manpower recovery speed - OK, repressions, extra manpower from purged nobles, but -20% culture cost - what? How does it relate to oprichnina? It wasn't a conflict between Russians and Tatars/Kalmyks/Lithuanians/etc, but between russian Czar and russian Boyars.
  4. Abolish the Mestnichestvo. +10% production efficiency.
    Wow, here's a not dumb Russian national idea.
  5. Siberian Frontier. The best current Russian idea.
  6. The Table of Ranks. +0,5 yearly army tradition.
    So, 90% of Russian nobility and statesmen were military commanders. Adding the magnificent traditions and ambition, we receive a wonderful horde of Russians.
  7. Broaden the Curriculum of the Cadet Corps. +20% to institution spread.
    And Russian horde commanders were especially trained in Renaissance, Colonialism, Printing Press, Global Market, Manufactories and Enlightenment. Supermen. As Münnich stated:
    "The advantage that Russian state has in front of everyone else is that it's ruled directly by the Lord God himself.

    Otherwise it's impossible to explain how does it exist at all."
Ambition
The zerg has grown. +50% manpower.

My version
Traditions
  1. Gathering of lands. -15% to coring cost.
    Started by Ivan I Kalita, finished by Joseph Stalin (by adding Transcarpathian Ukraine and Bukovina). Took six centuries to complete, started long before 1444 and was the main reason Muscovy became so strong and, later, independent from Tatars. (Well, historical job of Muscovy was gathering of russian lands, but the word "russian" was probably excluded at some point:rolleyes:)
  2. The Motherland. +20% to morale.
    Russians do not have any morale bonus, which I find strange. I'm not trying to say they need +discipline, or +pips, but Russia deserves a morale bonus. We are collectivists (most of us), and to die/lose everything you have for saving the Motherland is an accepted act among us (or, at least, was - now we're more sleeping). Napoleon was defeated when Russians leaved and burned out Moscow for his troops to suffer from winter (to everyone who says Napoleon lost because Russia is cold: how many acts similar to this do you know in the world history?). I suppose, it could be already a tradition in 1444 - the first impressive Russian battle I know is the Mongol two-month siege of Kozelsk in 1238. And the decision to fight Mamai (who even allied with Lithuania) in 1380 was almost suicidal for Russian Knyazes - they had never defeated a Golden Horde ruler before, but instead had been killed for their struggles.

Ideas
  1. Mass army. +50% land force limit modifier, -20% infantry cost.
    The process of enlargening army in Russia started near the beginning of EU4, I'll add later a more proper description.
  2. The Third Rome. +1 yearly legitimacy.
    Mortheim has already explained this. I'll only add: I suppose this concept gave Russian rulers only some internal support, nothing more. No more taxes/troops or even prestige - since internal prestige is legitimacy, and usual prestige is international, and who would accept such Russian claims?
  3. Imperial tolerance. + 3 tolerance of heathens (but not heretics), - to "wrong culture" penalty / + max promoted cultures. Maybe +25% religious unity.
    Many Muslims and even more cultures were in Russia, but also was some resistance to Catholic influence.
    Didn't find a better name.
    Muscovy was a part of Golden Horde (which did not have monoculture or monoreligion as a goal of its inner politics), inheriting this tradition. Other GH remnants - Kazan/Perm/Golden Horde already have similar bonuses.
  4. Artillery yard. + 10% fire damage (as Mortheim proposed) / -20% artillery cost.
    The largest artillery in Europe. The megacannon guards Moscow. Russia deserves an artillery idea.
  5. Siberian frontier. Bonus stays the same.
  6. Vast steppes. -20% culture conversion cost, -5% development cost.
    But at the moment Muscovy has the biggest reduce of culture conversion cost. Which is hardly compatible with tolerating everyone (3rd idea). And sweet.
    The majority of Russia - from Izmail to Kamchatka - was poorly populated. Duting the XVIII century, when Russia took control over most steppes, there were many Russian (and some German) migrants who settled there (Novorossiya, for example). And they were of not local culture.
    But, because of this mass internal migration, we need to represent the development change. By reducing its cost,
    I suppose. If we had a system of changing province cultures by developing, we could remove the - culture cost,
    but, sadly, we do not have such system.
  7. Dvoryans. +10% production efficiency, +0,5 yearly army tradition.
    Mestnichestvo gave higher ranks to more noble people, even if they were too bad for this. We have the idea related of abolishing it.
    The Table of Ranks was the continuation of this abolishing: giving ranks to people who proved themselves worthy, giving noble titles to the highest ranks, giving no ranks for nobles who don't serve. We have this as an idea too.
    During EU4 period, Russia switched its nobility from Boyars to Dvoryans.
    All of this can be united into one idea that represents this little empowering of the ones who were not high nobles.
Ambition
Western power. +20% institution spread.
The real, true Russian ambition - to become a major world power / to obtain the powers Western powers have. Fullfilled in 1930s USSR.

If someone thinks Russia may become OP with these new ideas, have no fear - for Russia, during EU4 timeline, was turning from a relatively small principality to Napoleon's defeater and Britain's servant.
  • It was expanding westwards until reaching the HRE;
  • It was expanding eastwards until reaching the Pacific;
  • It was expanding southwestwards until it collapsed (one of the reasons Russia entered WWI was desire to control Constantinople)
  • It was expanding southeastwards until top rank idiots (led by Nikolai II) made Russia lose war with Japan
  • It was expanding southwards until reaching the British.
  • Northwards/northeastwards, there was the Arctic, and northwestwards is the only exception: Russia took nothing more than Finland.
So Russia deserves to be OP - more than Poland and Ming (who are totally awesome now).
I greatly thank Mortheim for his writings in this thread. And hope one day they'll be incorporated into the game.
 
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