Sims Medieval

[Alfryd]

Sims Medieval (Off Topic?)

I was originally going to do a full review of this, but marshalling my thoughts properly into the invincible crushing phalanxes needed for the purpose seemed like too much work. Besides, I don't actually hate this game- It's just faintly disappointing.

I'll just toss a few thoughts off the top of my head. I realise this doesn't have anything strictly to do with Majesty 2, but it does seem to be an entry into a similar 'genre', so it might bear some discussion.

* The system of quests is perhaps the most irritating aspect of the game. The aim here is to help 'promote storytelling', but while the essential components are all there, none of them are quite hooked up right, thanks to the usual conflation of 'story' with 'plot'. Their intentions are in the right place, but it's like a troope of howler monkeys took the parts for a jet fighter and managed to assemble a combine harvester instead.

* You get a fair amount of choice in terms of the array of quests available at a given time, but few of them seem connected to previous quest outcomes, the personalities of the ensemble of characters (as distinct from their competency requirements), or any of the organic side-effects of day-to-day life.

* Conversely, once you start a given quest there is a more-or-less plausible pattern of cause-and-effect in evidence, but the gameplay becomes an essentially linear obstacle course imposed under a series of arbitrary deadlines. Only 1 option == No real choice == No real input == Zero Player Game == No Game.

* There is no getting away from quests. You cannot order other Sims to complete quests by themselves, nothing happens without pursuing a quest, and the number of quests you can undertake is finite, forcing you to essentially reboot your kingdom in order to fulfil 'ambitions' and advance your Watcher level by ferreting out questionable 'achievements'.

* Replay value is therefore largely dependant on the player's ability and willingness to jump through hoops in a reiteration of the classic Skinner-Box-MMO-mechanics that can somehow induce otherwise rational human beings into bouncing around like an overexcited cocker spaniel begging for their next biscuity treat.

* So there's either choice without a sense of consequences, or consequences without a sense of choice. The result is that quests seem like a distraction from the core gameplay, rather than being properly integrated with the underlying simulation.

* The core simulation mechanics have also been stripped down considerably. Most of the Sims' needs have been abstracted away, presumably in order to leave more time to pursue quests, and you don't get to lay out the floorplan for the buildings anymore. Since this is where a large chunk of my enjoyment of the original Sims resided, that kinda blows.

* Since you're stuck controlling one Sim at a time, there isn't the same 'buzz' associated with multitasking a larger household (you can't leave one Sim engaged in conversation while you have another fix up some grits and a third take out the trash, for example. ...I suck at this, but it does bear mention.) You can only fast-forward through the 'dull intervals' where your Sim is stuck in the middle of some time-consuming chore.

* Oddly, although 'non-hero' Sims are all around the place, they don't seem to do anything useful for you- such as taking care of cookery, making beds, tending swine or gathering raw materials on your behalf- even when you play the Monarch.

* As a consequence, there's no real economy simulation to speak of. Everything is abstracted away into 'resource points' and 'kingdom aspects' that hinge upon quest completion. You can buy things by visiting the Village Shoppe, but I don't see why they bothered when you can evidently conjure furniture out of the aether in exchange for simoleons.

* It's possible limited budgets were a factor here, but given the time and attention EA seem willing to lavish on textures and animations for wardrobes, crafting and conversation, it seems odd that the only monster that you actually get to see on-screen is the beast in the pit of judgement (and that briefly.) Swordplay combat itself is well-animated but mechanically threadbare.

* The Sims series already had a perfectly functional system for skill advancement based on practice over time with appropriate equipment, but classes, levels and XP have been tacked for no obvious reason other than 'these are things RPGs are supposed to have'.


In spite of all this, there are aspects of this game that I rather like- specifically, the holdovers from previous entries in the Sims series. Choosing traits, appearance and wardrobes for the various characters is fun, and getting into the 'groove' of a daily routine has a strangely satisfying quality to it. I just feel like all of this is being smothered by the overlaying layers of quest-mongering, rather than being enhanced.


The tragic aspect to all of this is that I saw it coming months ago when EA first announced their intention to create a 'story-driven' game. It seems I am blessed with the gift of foresight but cursed by being too much of an ass for anyone to stand listening to me. Kinda like Cassandra meets Yahtzee.

 

[Pablo--]

I was originally going to do a full review of this, but marshalling my thoughts properly into the invincible crushing phalanxes needed for the purpose seemed like too much work. Besides, I don't actually hate this game- It's just faintly disappointing.

I'll just toss a few thoughts off the top of my head. I realise this doesn't have anything strictly to do with Majesty 2, but it does seem to be an entry into a similar 'genre', so it might bear some discussion.

* The system of quests is perhaps the most irritating aspect of the game. The aim here is to help 'promote storytelling', but while the essential components are all there, none of them are quite hooked up right, thanks to the usual conflation of 'story' with 'plot'. Their intentions are in the right place, but it's like a troope of howler monkeys took the parts for a jet fighter and managed to assemble a combine harvester instead.

* You get a fair amount of choice in terms of the array of quests available at a given time, but few of them seem connected to previous quest outcomes, the personalities of the ensemble of characters (as distinct from their competency requirements), or any of the organic side-effects of day-to-day life.

* Conversely, once you start a given quest there is a more-or-less plausible pattern of cause-and-effect in evidence, but the gameplay becomes an essentially linear obstacle course imposed under a series of arbitrary deadlines. Only 1 option == No real choice == No real input == Zero Player Game == No Game.

* There is no getting away from quests. You cannot order other Sims to complete quests by themselves, nothing happens without pursuing a quest, and the number of quests you can undertake is finite, forcing you to essentially reboot your kingdom in order to fulfil 'ambitions' and advance your Watcher level by ferreting out questionable 'achievements'.

* Replay value is therefore largely dependant on the player's ability and willingness to jump through hoops in a reiteration of the classic Skinner-Box-MMO-mechanics that can somehow induce otherwise rational human beings into bouncing around like an overexcited cocker spaniel begging for their next biscuity treat.

* So there's either choice without a sense of consequences, or consequences without a sense of choice. The result is that quests seem like a distraction from the core gameplay, rather than being properly integrated with the underlying simulation.

* The core simulation mechanics have also been stripped down considerably. Most of the Sims' needs have been abstracted away, presumably in order to leave more time to pursue quests, and you don't get to lay out the floorplan for the buildings anymore. Since this is where a large chunk of my enjoyment of the original Sims resided, that kinda blows.

* Since you're stuck controlling one Sim at a time, there isn't the same 'buzz' associated with multitasking a larger household (you can't leave one Sim engaged in conversation while you have another fix up some grits and a third take out the trash, for example. ...I suck at this, but it does bear mention.) You can only fast-forward through the 'dull intervals' where your Sim is stuck in the middle of some time-consuming chore.

* Oddly, although 'non-hero' Sims are all around the place, they don't seem to do anything useful for you- such as taking care of cookery, making beds, tending swine or gathering raw materials on your behalf- even when you play the Monarch.

* As a consequence, there's no real economy simulation to speak of. Everything is abstracted away into 'resource points' and 'kingdom aspects' that hinge upon quest completion. You can buy things by visiting the Village Shoppe, but I don't see why they bothered when you can evidently conjure furniture out of the aether in exchange for simoleons.

* It's possible limited budgets were a factor here, but given the time and attention EA seem willing to lavish on textures and animations for wardrobes, crafting and conversation, it seems odd that the only monster that you actually get to see on-screen is the beast in the pit of judgement (and that briefly.) Swordplay combat itself is well-animated but mechanically threadbare.

* The Sims series already had a perfectly functional system for skill advancement based on practice over time with appropriate equipment, but classes, levels and XP have been tacked for no obvious reason other than 'these are things RPGs are supposed to have'.


In spite of all this, there are aspects of this game that I rather like- specifically, the holdovers from previous entries in the Sims series. Choosing traits, appearance and wardrobes for the various characters is fun, and getting into the 'groove' of a daily routine has a strangely satisfying quality to it. I just feel like all of this is being smothered by the overlaying layers of quest-mongering, rather than being enhanced.


The tragic aspect to all of this is that I saw it coming months ago when EA first announced their intention to create a 'story-driven' game. It seems I am blessed with the gift of foresight but cursed by being too much of an ass for anyone to stand listening to me. Kinda like Cassandra meets Yahtzee.

Add "Off-topic" to your title. It's going to help!
Good Review though!

 

[unmerged(169164)]

Well, this game is a spin off of The Sims, a successful franchise.

Hard for Maxis/EA to remove elements that are favourites among players. They will try to use the same recipe as much as they can.

They want to sell a product so they have to please the customers. Players want frantic activity. The Sims and its spin off have to include features to support frantic activity.
No foreseeing in telling that, simple admittance of the reality.

Maybe in future episodes, they will manage to sway their audience away from frantic activity. Giving to the sims more self sufficiency in doing so.

But the gaming equation is nowadays frantic activity. So...

 

[Alfryd]

Hard for Maxis/EA to remove elements that are favourites among players. They will try to use the same recipe as much as they can.

As far as I can tell, Maxis/EA did remove several elements that were important to their existing players (specifically, most of the Sims' needs, laying out floorplans, freedom from a deterministic plot.) The things that they added in- mainly linear storylines- were 'frenetic activity' of a sort, in the same sense that "Simon Says" can be 'frenetic activity'. But I don't think it counts as a simulation, or even as much of a game.

I mean, for example, you can undertake a quest to assassinate the king/queen, ostensibly on the basis that s/he's been hiking up taxes, etc, and needs to be taken down. But whether this quest is available or not has, AFAICT, nothing to do with how you role-played the character in previous missions or what personality traits you picked for him/her. Your monarch might be the very soul of generosity, chivalry, diligence and enlightenment, right up to the point where you pick this quest, at which point they spontaneously turn evil for no obvious reason.

Another example: You can pick a 'love triangle' quest that presents opportunities to elope, marry in secret, have a formal ceremony, etc. etc. But again, AFAICT, this has nothing to do with the relationships your Sims might have built naturally during day-to-day conversation or by performing responsibilities or favours on their behalf. You just pick the quest, and boom- suddenly two characters are madly in love, for no obvious reason, even if they've never clapped eyes on eachother before.

I mean, considered in isolation, any individual quest is perfectly viable story material, but the problem is that they only exist in isolation. Their causes are arbitrary, their effects are vague, and in between those points the player has little or no real creative involvement.

 

[unmerged(169164)]

Of course, they removed elements. Those are sub/lesser/minor elements that are to enable elements of greater order.

They were removed to enable elements like frantic activity or puppet on the string elements that are keys to The Sims franchise and are favourite among the players (needs are barely elements that are favourite among players, they are just enablers)

Everything that is not frantic activity is deemed to be passivity. Players do not want to be passive in front of their game because boredom.
Developpers can do nothing about this. They have to meet the tastes of players. Explaining that watching is an active process is a no go commercially. Customers are right no matter what happens.

As to the other story, players want an environment that supports them without themselves having to support the environment.

Developping the environment in order to get an access to some gameplay elements is not popular among players.

Players want a direct access to the array of elements without being constrainted by the environment. Quests must be accessible no matter the environment. Once again, another element forced by players on developpers.

Even Maxis is moving slowly away from that, I doubt deep changes happen before The Sims five.

 

[Alfryd]

The problem I see with this argument is that the quests do have requirements. But they're the wrong kind of requirements- tactics-oriented, and not story oriented. e.g, you must have such-and-such heroes with such-and-such classes of such-and-such a minimum level, rather than demanding particular personality traits, relationship graphs or prior pivotal decisions. (With rare exceptions, such as the whale-hunting quest.)

Secondly, if giving the player 'more freedom' were really the motive here, why are quests rationed out so strictly and made a mandatory aspect of play? I wouldn't object to quests nearly so badly if they were just optional extras that you could pursue in your own time- indeed, I'd most likely welcome them. Or, if they just specified some ultimate goal and let the player work out their own solution, well and good.

Thirdly, the original Sims had quite a bit of 'frenetic activity', because the Sims had more needs and you could manage an entire household at once, rather than being stuck in one character's perspective. Even if you cut out needs and floorplan design, the management of a larger economy-simulation and in-depth diplomacy could keep the player more than busy. But there isn't any.


I mean, look at the actual user reviews over on metacritic. It's the Majesty 2 debacle all over again- which is what happens when developers who understand neither stories nor simulations try to further plot at the expense of choice and chase the largest possible demographic at the expense of their original player base. They wind up with the worst of both worlds.

Selling a little shy of 300K copies sounds good, until you consider that this is the Sims we're talking about, the best-selling video game franchise in history with more than 100 million boxed copies sold, and all the weight of EA's marketing machinery behind it- They should easily be cracking the million-plus-sales mark here. But they can't, because the series' original player base do not especially like this game.

 

[unmerged(169164)]

PCs/Avatars are not environment.

It is not about freedom, a word that means nothing, but about access to the game content, how direct it is.


As to reviews, from the link only, it seems rather positive (critics score distribution: 34 positive, 21 mixed, 0 negative) 77 average score. Does not read like a debacle for me.

 

[Pak-Man]

I actually think if the sales are hurting, it'd because a LOT of people figured it was just another Sims expansion. They release so many, that it's just assumed that "The Sims: _______" must be the umpteenth expansion to The Sims.

Personally, I like it as a change of pace/suppliment to The Sims. If I want to simulate life, I play The Sims 3, if I want to simulate work, I play The Sims: Medieval.

 

[unmerged(169164)]

If I want to simulate life, I play The Sims 3, if I want to simulate work, I play The Sims: Medieval.

The point.

EA is not liked among players but for The Sims, their developpment course is strong. All expansions so far have filled gaps neededly.

The opening of the gameworld, that is the removal of the discontinuity between the house and the rest of the map, is a change dealer for the job approach and the level of abstraction given to work.

Now, gamers being a conservative bunch, EA/Maxis have to tread carefully on this one.
The first thing I assessed with Ambitions add on, was the load that less abstracted work puts on the sims management.

Managing five sims at once seems to be the overload limit elected by Maxis. And managing five sims with ambitions jobs adds much load.

So far, in The Sims, a sim going to a job is respite to micro-manage the others. As continuity of environment removes the respite when jobs are no longer abstracted, it changes the approach to The Sims. It might force players to rely on their Sims to perform tasks on their own as the players' capacity to issues orders is outmatched.

Sims:medieval provides Maxis with feed back on what can be introduced in terms of less abstracted work without hurting too much players' conservativeness.

The introduction of less abstracted work if done in The Sims 4, might be a big divider among The Sims' players as quite a lot of them will resent losing the job break time, diminishing their puppets on the string feeling.

Others, like me, might welcome the move as it will allow developpers to provide more self sufficient sims as they will be required by gameplay.