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Parmelion

Lead Developer of Ante Bellum
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Mar 14, 2016
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Hello. As we all know, focus of the next free update is going to be Poland. As i recall, the last free-update was patch 1.24 aka "Japan". This patch not only updated the map of Japan, but also updated the map of the Philippines. I was hoping that in 1.27, we could see something similar and some of the regions surrounding Poland could be updated as well. First two that came to my mind instantly were the land of the Teutonic Order and Upper Hungary. Even though the region was already updated like 3 times, i still feel that there is a place for some improvements and polishing. The importance of the region is quite big as it was the richest, the most developed region of Hungary as well as one of the lead European producers of silver and gold.

Polish-Hungarian/Slovak Border

The border of Poland and Hungary is represented in a terrible way. The border between the two countries did not really change since the establishment of the Hungarian country until the partitions of Poland and/or the aftermath of WW1. The only small exception was Zastaw spiski / Spišská zástava / Pledge of Spiš. The way border looked for over 900 years is quite far from what it looks like ingame.

Here is my suggestion:

SPOILER - Current map of Slovakia vs. suggested map of Slovakia

save.png

SPOILER - Map of Slovakia in my own mod; Bulwark of Christianity

mem.png

Maybe it is not the best representation of the actual border, but i tried by best while also trying to follow the rivers and the relative size of the regions. :D

SPOILER - Some maps showing the proposed border. (Gesta Hungarorum, map of Hungary in 11th century and map of the Polish-Hungarian border showing the Pledge of Spiš.)

Ec6u9dC.png

mqml0yE.png

mc5Lb2G.png

Pledge of Spiš

Spišská zástava or Zastaw spiski/starostwo spiskie was a transfer of 34 towns and villages in the region of Spiš to Poland. Long story short, Poland provided Hungary with a financial loan to fight the Venetians. To make sure that Hungary will repay it, 34 towns and villages were temporarily transferred under the Polish administration, although they were still part of Hungary. Hungarians tried to repay the loan and take back the towns but failed. Those villages and towns remained under the Polish administration until the partitions of Poland as the Hungarians never repaid their loan. I think that there could be an event chain or something like that, giving Hungary chances to repay the loan or giving cb for one against the another etc. Province of Spiš/Szépes can have a modifier which would lower the income and manpower of the province to represent the partial Polish control. Poland can have a permanent claim or core on the province.

SPOILER - Map showing the towns and villages under the Polish administration in the County of Spiš/Szépes.

gnk1GZo.jpg

Province changes

I would also like to suggest an addition of two provinces, which would cause Slovakia to split into two regions, Western Slovakia (4 provinces) and Eastern Slovakia (3 provinces) as well as some changes to the already existing provinces.

SPOILER - Map again

save2.png

1 - Pozsony
Capital: Pozsony
Culture: Slovak
Region: Western Slovakia
Tax: 5
Production: 5
Manpower: 3
Trade good: Wine
Estate: Burghers

Dynamic names:
Hungarian: Pozsony
Slovak: Prešporok
Czech: Prešpurk
German: Pressburg
Polish: Pożoń

Basically the only thing changed here is the trade good, which i changed from grain to wine. Pozsony/Prešporok was known for its wineyards. Viticulture was very important for the local economy.

2 - Nyitra
Capital: Nyitra
Culture: Slovak
Region: Western Slovakia
Tax: 3
Production: 2
Manpower: 1
Trade good: Grain
Estate: Clergy

Dynamic names:
Hungarian: Nyitra
Slovak: Nitra
German: Neutra

Previously known as the gold mine province of Hont, i suggest to change the province to Nitra. Nitra was very important local centre. It was a free royal city that was later given to the clergy by the king Karl I. Robert for their support in his claim to the Hungarian throne. Since then, the Bishops of Nitra were ruling the town and their rule became hereditary. Later, Nitra was very important defence point during the Ottoman-Habsburg wars.

3 - Trencsén
Capital: Trencsén
Culture: Slovak
Region: Western Slovakia
Tax: 2
Production: 3
Manpower: 1
Trade good: Iron
Estate: Nobility

Dynamic names:
Hungarian: Trencsén
Slovak: Trenčín
German: Trentschin
Polish: Trenczyn

Remains as it is.

4 - Zólyom
Capital: Zólyom
Culture: Slovak
Region: Western Slovakia
Tax: 3
Production: 3
Manpower: 1
Trade good: Gold
Estate: -

Dynamic names:
Hungarian: Zóylom
Slovak: Zvolen
German: Altsohl
Polish: Zwoleń

First new province, the County of Zvolen. The surrounding region was perhaps the richest region of Hungary. This province would represent the Free Royal Mining Towns of Hungary, which were amongst the richest and the most developed in entire country. Golden Kremnica is located here, as well as other quite famous mining towns such as Banská Bystrica, Banská Štiavnica, Brezno or Nová Baňa.

5 - Szepes
Capital: Lőcse
Culture: Slovak
Region: Eastern Slovakia
Tax: 2
Production: 3
Manpower: 1
Trade good: Copper
Estate: Nobles

Dynamic names:
Hungarian: Szepes
Slovak: Spiš
German: Zips
Polish: Spisz

Corrected the capital as the current capital (Spiš) served as the capital only until 14th century. Nerfed tax, production and manpower.

6 - Abaúj
Capital: Kassa
Culture: Slovak
Region: Eastern Slovakia
Tax: 4
Production: 4
Manpower: 3
Trade good: Livestock
Estate: Burghers

Dynamic names:
Hungarian: Abaúj
Slovak: Abov
German: Abau

The town of Kassa/Košice has long been missing from this game. This was the biggest Free Royal City in the Upper Hungary, one of the most important inland trading centers and the second most important city in Hungary, only behind the capital Buda. I think it should finally make an appearance in EU IV.

Also, the province should have an Emporium (Level 1 inland trade center) because of it's importance and the possition on the main trade routes.

7 - Zemplén
Capital: Zemplén
Culture: Slovak
Region: Eastern Slovakia
Tax: 2
Production: 2
Manpower: 1
Trade good: Wine
Estate: -

Dynamic names:
Hungarian: Zemplén
Slovak: Zemplín
German: Semplin

The province representing northern, Slovak part of the County of Zemplén. The trade good was changed to wine because of the famous Tokaj wine region and the tax and production were nerfed because the capital of the province was changed from Kassa (which is now the capital of the Abaúj province) to Zemplén.
 
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I would like to add two suggestions:
1) About the names: you chose to name some provinces after one of the important towns (like Nyitra and especially Zólyom) and some after the historical county name (like Abaúj). For the sake of consistency, perhaps it should be considered to maintain one of them, preferably the latter (at least in Hungarian). Also I am pretty sure its Szepes, not Szépes.

2) What would you think about the addition of Komárom province with Hungarian culture? This would come with many benefits: better represent the ethnic-cultural border, allow to represent the rich trading town (trade good maybe grain or cloth, terrain forest or marsh(to represent the swamps of the Great Rye Island)) and finally (if it had its fort) to protect Pest, so the invaders cant just stroll to the capital from Austria. Or at least have a fort in Pest.

On side-note: With the existing forts and the supposed ace-card (Black Army) its already gets though to pay for them in the early game, perhaps give fort maintenance reduction in the ideas or make the black army a professionalism/drill/cheaper thing.
 
Really like this Parmelion....can you also do the same and leave actuall province count that currently is in game....just reshape the provices and place towns to correct place on map. So paradox can choose...because they might avoid this cause there are too many provinces for a small area though I like it very very much. Every small change that helps to improve this region is nice.

Also Idea: Can we call "Zólyom" provice "Gemer"? Just for a town/province diversity. I know those two were separate provinces sitting next to each other and current Zólyom province is covering both.
 
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Nice suggestions. Interesting, well thought out and good size/number of provinces.

I just have one question:

3 - Trencsén
Capital: Trencsén
Culture: Slovak
Region: Western Slovakia
Tax: 2
Production: 3
Manpower: 1
Trade good: Silver
Estate: Nobility

Dynamic names:
Hungarian: Trencsén
Slovak: Trenčín
German: Trentschin
Polish: Trenczyn

Remains as it is.

Silver? Do you mean Iron or do you want to add another gold province (as silver is represented by gold in the game)?
 
@Darth. @Sanguine Caesar @Funlover

Thank you very much guys! :)


I would like to add two suggestions:
1) About the names: you chose to name some provinces after one of the important towns (like Nyitra and especially Zólyom) and some after the historical county name (like Abaúj). For the sake of consistency, perhaps it should be considered to maintain one of them, preferably the latter (at least in Hungarian). Also I am pretty sure its Szepes, not Szépes.
.

Both Nitra (Nyitra) and Zvolen (Zólyom) are names of the counties as well, just as any other Hungarian province. I named those provinces after the counties, not the towns. :)
https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zólyom_vármegye
https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyitra_vármegye

And you are right, its Szepes not Szépes, edited.

2) What would you think about the addition of Komárom province with Hungarian culture? This would come with many benefits: better represent the ethnic-cultural border, allow to represent the rich trading town (trade good maybe grain or cloth, terrain forest or marsh(to represent the swamps of the Great Rye Island)) and finally (if it had its fort) to protect Pest, so the invaders cant just stroll to the capital from Austria. Or at least have a fort in Pest.
.

I was actually thinking about adding the province of Komárom/Komárno. Although it was not very developed region, it was indeed really important trading town and Great Rye Island on the Danube has huge economic importance as it is well known for its fertile grounds. The only thing i feared was exaggerated fragmentation of the region, i did not want to add many new provinces, even though i would like to see some representation of the Hungarians in the southern regions of Slovakia as a ethnic minority/majority in provinces. Sadly, EU IV mechanics do not allow to do much about it.


Also Idea: Can we call "Zólyom" provice "Gemer"? Just for a town/province diversity. I know those two were separate provinces sitting next to each other and current Zólyom province is covering both.

I dont agree with you, region of Gemer lays outside of the Free Royal Mining Towns which were mainly located in the county of Zvolen. That is the reason why i choose this name for the province, as in my opinion it would be the best one to represent the free mining towns.


I just have one question:
Silver? Do you mean Iron or do you want to add another gold province (as silver is represented by gold in the game)?

Yes, my bad, i already edited it. Thank you :)
 
Both Nitra (Nyitra) and Zvolen (Zólyom) are names of the counties as well, just as any other Hungarian province. I named those provinces after the counties, not the towns. :)
https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zólyom_vármegye
https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyitra_vármegye


I was actually thinking about adding the province of Komárom/Komárno. Although it was not very developed region, it was indeed really important trading town and Great Rye Island on the Danube has huge economic importance as it is well known for its fertile grounds. The only thing i feared was exaggerated fragmentation of the region, i did not want to add many new provinces, even though i would like to see some representation of the Hungarians in the southern regions of Slovakia as a ethnic minority/majority in provinces. Sadly, EU IV mechanics do not allow to do much about it.

You are right, I just found it odd that those were actually city names, unlike Gemer, Hont and the others. I saw this map in an other thread which might give inspiration, how to draw in Komárom and other provinces:

Since we are on the topic anyway, how about a little wasteland in the High Tatras? It wouldnt be big, but it could funnel the armies a bit.
 
Since we are on the topic anyway, how about a little wasteland in the High Tatras? It wouldnt be big, but it could funnel the armies a bit.

I already suggested the High Tatras wasteland in my previous topic regarding the possible rework of Slovakia/Upper Hungary.

Lastly we don't really want to add wasteland unless it actually serves a function in the game. The one suggested here would not change the access between any provinces and so will not happen :)

But it was quite badly drawn so i had to agree with the opinion of @Trin Tragula
If redrawn to actually serve a purpose, blocking at least one province from Nowy Sacz, then i would love to see it in game as the Tatra mountains are an unpassable natural border between the two countries. :)
 
If redrawn to actually serve a purpose, blocking at least one province from Nowy Sacz, then i would love to see it in game as the Tatra mountains are an unpassable natural border between the two countries. :)

Indeed, I was thinking about between Nowy Szacz and Trencsén and perhaps between Ratibor and Trencsén, although I am not sure about the latter.
 
I would like to add two suggestions:
1) About the names: you chose to name some provinces after one of the important towns (like Nyitra and especially Zólyom) and some after the historical county name (like Abaúj). For the sake of consistency, perhaps it should be considered to maintain one of them, preferably the latter (at least in Hungarian). Also I am pretty sure its Szepes, not Szépes.

2) What would you think about the addition of Komárom province with Hungarian culture? This would come with many benefits: better represent the ethnic-cultural border, allow to represent the rich trading town (trade good maybe grain or cloth, terrain forest or marsh(to represent the swamps of the Great Rye Island)) and finally (if it had its fort) to protect Pest, so the invaders cant just stroll to the capital from Austria. Or at least have a fort in Pest.

On side-note: With the existing forts and the supposed ace-card (Black Army) its already gets though to pay for them in the early game, perhaps give fort maintenance reduction in the ideas or make the black army a professionalism/drill/cheaper thing.
If we're adding Komárom (Komárno in Slovak localisation) it should definitely produce naval supplies.
 
I wonder how the rest of Hungary looks in your mod, looks great btw!
 
I have updated the maps based on my mod, Bulwark of Christianity. It's not like i am going to praise my own work ( :D ), but the new map of suggested border of Slovakia/Upper Hungary with Bohemia and Poland is perhaps the best in terms of relative scale and historical correctness as it very strictly follows and depicts the border on the River Morava and it's transition along the river valley of Váh and White Carpathians. Same goes for the border of Poland in counties of Orava and Spiš.
 
Your link doesen't work for me, but I'm curious.
As the Ottomans, Russians, Polish and Lithuanians, and now probably the HRE will get an update, Hungary (despite the quite recent update) would need some love.
I will upload my ideas a bit later, i need to polish some aspects yet.

I mostly agree with your proposed changes, maybe Szepes and Abaúj is too much, they could be merged. I also wouldn't divide Zemplén/Berehovo
Regarding hungarian names, for example the province where Kassa/kosice is, should be called simply Kassa. Hungarian administrative regions ("vármegye" - basically county) were very small, so I don't think it's a good idea to rely completely on them.

I already suggested the High Tatras wasteland in my previous topic regarding the possible rework of Slovakia/Upper Hungary.

Now this would be awesome.
 
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Regarding hungarian names, for example the province where Kassa/kosice is, should be called simply Kassa. Hungarian administrative regions ("vármegye" - basically county) were very small, so I don't think it's a good idea to rely completely on them.
While its true that that they were sometimes small, I think they still represent the most historic naming of the regions, some of them even carried into modern names of counties as well. Using Kassa would break immersion from my point of view.

On a side note if the Zólyom province connects to Nowy Szacz, we should definetely put a wasteland between them and possibly between other provinces as well.
 
Your link doesen't work for me, but I'm curious.

Your link does not work because your Paradox forum account is not connected to Steam, thus you can't see User Mods subforum here.

Also, i don't think that Abaúj should be called Kassa. At the moment, all of Hungarian provinces are named after a counties so i see no reason why this province should be an exception.

High Tatras to me personally sound like a good and reasonable addition as they are the highest mountain range of Carpathians and are natural impassable barrier. As @Kane_hun said, if Zólyom was added as a province with connection to Nowy Sacz, then it would be good idea to add High Tatras as well, blocking at least 1 province.