I understand that the game is trying to create a more competitive landscape for the player, as well as increase difficulty if the player is European, but I find it utterly stupid that non-western nations can westernize so fast and with such ease. I find it annoying that the developers decide to make the game historic in some aspects (historical events, historical enemies modifiers (that makes it utterly complicated to integrate Sweden as Denmark btw)), and then utterly unreal in other aspects, such as the westernization.
Playing as an early imperial nation such as Portugal or Spain, the key to expanding across Asia initially is taking bases in each trade node, important centers of trade to establish a presence in the region. Later, in the 1700s, with the Admin efficiency, etc. it becomes much easier to core foreign territory and seize more territory in these nodes, but early on, its not very easy coring foreign territory. And this trend actually makes sense, because in actual history, empires such as Portugal began their expansion with the seizure of small footholds and ports from which they could export goods to their homeland.
In real life, however, nations bordering these trade nodes did not westernize simply because of this presence. They didn't say "oh look a western nation let's westernize now so we can survive." This is one of the reasons why the Europeans dominated the world so substantially. Indian states didn't automatically westernize when Portugal conquered Goa, etc. I think that westernization isn't just about technology, but was also about tradition, culture, and religion. The bot nations so readily and easily ignore centuries of religion and culture and change their entire society in a matter of a few years. This is absolutely outrageous. And as you conquer more and more bases, you trigger a wave of westernization of nations that have no business westernizing from a historical standpoint.
What you end up with is a bunch of Indian, African, and Chinese/Japanese westernized nations in the 1600s, 1700s. absolutely outrageous.
In most of the games the same thing happens - Portugal conquers Goa, Bahmanis consolidates power in India and reconquers Goa after westernizing, then allies Ming (which never collapses in the new patch, btw, while it always collapsed back then). This makes it utterly difficult to move into India, which is so ahistorical.
I understand that they need to make the game playable for people that like playing non-Europeans, but the very essence of this period of history was European dominance and preeminence, and the game is even called Europa Universalis for christ sake. They even make the game historical in the Americas, because it's absolutely easy to conquer American territory (and not easy enough, actually, because the Spanish were able to conquer the entirety of the Incas in a single stroke), but completely ignores history in the old world by making Africans and Asians so readily willing to westernize. If you want to make the game more "playable" by having nations like China westernizing (which is just starting to seriously westernize today!), then don't be hypocritical and have the American bots so realistically noncompetitive with the Europeans.
I think that there should be some sort of "traditions" value that restricts the ability to westernize for nations that are absolutely different from western nations. Nations like Lithuania would be able to westernize much faster and with less stress, and nations like China or India wouldn't be able to westernize easily at all. Also, the larger the nation (population, territorial size, etc.) the more expensive it should be to westernize. That's right, westernization should not only cost a great deal of money, but should also be very expensive, even if the nations are smaller. Also, the westernization should bring about a great deal of unrest and revolt for nations whose traditions are more and more distant from western society (differentiated by tech groups). Anything that can make it more holistically realistic when it comes to westernization. I just think that this period is all about European domination, and that the westernization trend completely defies history on multiple levels, and I find it very annoying to play amidst all this muck.
At least offer some players who would rather have non-westernization an option to play in a more realistic setting.
Playing as an early imperial nation such as Portugal or Spain, the key to expanding across Asia initially is taking bases in each trade node, important centers of trade to establish a presence in the region. Later, in the 1700s, with the Admin efficiency, etc. it becomes much easier to core foreign territory and seize more territory in these nodes, but early on, its not very easy coring foreign territory. And this trend actually makes sense, because in actual history, empires such as Portugal began their expansion with the seizure of small footholds and ports from which they could export goods to their homeland.
In real life, however, nations bordering these trade nodes did not westernize simply because of this presence. They didn't say "oh look a western nation let's westernize now so we can survive." This is one of the reasons why the Europeans dominated the world so substantially. Indian states didn't automatically westernize when Portugal conquered Goa, etc. I think that westernization isn't just about technology, but was also about tradition, culture, and religion. The bot nations so readily and easily ignore centuries of religion and culture and change their entire society in a matter of a few years. This is absolutely outrageous. And as you conquer more and more bases, you trigger a wave of westernization of nations that have no business westernizing from a historical standpoint.
What you end up with is a bunch of Indian, African, and Chinese/Japanese westernized nations in the 1600s, 1700s. absolutely outrageous.
In most of the games the same thing happens - Portugal conquers Goa, Bahmanis consolidates power in India and reconquers Goa after westernizing, then allies Ming (which never collapses in the new patch, btw, while it always collapsed back then). This makes it utterly difficult to move into India, which is so ahistorical.
I understand that they need to make the game playable for people that like playing non-Europeans, but the very essence of this period of history was European dominance and preeminence, and the game is even called Europa Universalis for christ sake. They even make the game historical in the Americas, because it's absolutely easy to conquer American territory (and not easy enough, actually, because the Spanish were able to conquer the entirety of the Incas in a single stroke), but completely ignores history in the old world by making Africans and Asians so readily willing to westernize. If you want to make the game more "playable" by having nations like China westernizing (which is just starting to seriously westernize today!), then don't be hypocritical and have the American bots so realistically noncompetitive with the Europeans.
I think that there should be some sort of "traditions" value that restricts the ability to westernize for nations that are absolutely different from western nations. Nations like Lithuania would be able to westernize much faster and with less stress, and nations like China or India wouldn't be able to westernize easily at all. Also, the larger the nation (population, territorial size, etc.) the more expensive it should be to westernize. That's right, westernization should not only cost a great deal of money, but should also be very expensive, even if the nations are smaller. Also, the westernization should bring about a great deal of unrest and revolt for nations whose traditions are more and more distant from western society (differentiated by tech groups). Anything that can make it more holistically realistic when it comes to westernization. I just think that this period is all about European domination, and that the westernization trend completely defies history on multiple levels, and I find it very annoying to play amidst all this muck.
At least offer some players who would rather have non-westernization an option to play in a more realistic setting.
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