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Dolans

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May 11, 2014
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Hello people

Personally, I am not content with CO's decision not to implement all four seasons in the regular game, but rather make special always winter maps. On the other hand, I like the implementation of trams and a temperature System, as well as rain on all the other map types. But Honestly, the snow only maps are a huge let down for me.


Anyhow, apparently it bugs a lot of people that there won't be full season cycles on all map types.

An excuse other people use is that it's the small minority that's the loudest and most people actually like the new expansion pack ideas.
This is what bugs me, is it true?

So I'd like to call the people here up to upvote or downvote my comment according to their personal opinion on the matter. Do you like what you get or do you not? (Upvote = Like, Downvote= Dislike)

My hopes with this thread are that we could possibly show CO that we as costumers and fans and citybuilders expect something different. I know it won't be an adequate sample for all C:S players but hey it's just an idea, something I would like to know.

So please vote.
 
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Hello people

Personally, I am not content with CO's decision not to implement all four seasons in the regular game, but rather make special always winter maps. On the other hand, I like the implementation of Trams and a Temperature System, as well as rain on all the other map types. But Personally the snow only maps are a huge let down for me.


Anyhow, apparently it bugs a lot of people that there won't be full season cycles on all map types.

An excuse other people use is that it's the small minority that's the loudest and most people actually like the new expansion pack ideas.
This is what bugs me, is it true?

My hopes with this thread are that we could possibly show CO that we as costumers and fans and citybuilders expect something different. I know it won't be an adequate sample for all C:S players but hey it's just an idea, something I would like to know.

So please vote.

Totally agree with your post in regards to being listened to by CO, as citie builders. I also play don bradman cricket 14, now for most people on this forum it's a cricket game. This game was developed my a similar small Australian organisation that in many ways was sick of EA's attempts on cricket games and thought to themselves they could do it better. We'll they produced a game that was excellent by missing some fundamental parts. These parts were discussed on forums and the developers listened to all the feedback, good and bad and created updates. The game now is a standout for cricket games and a wonderful example of a developer listening to the hardcore/soft core game users and taking the feedbackfrom the forums they created.

It would be a wonderful game if CO listened to the people on the forums, not only would they have us for life, but show the big companies that customers do matter and listening to your clients creates a wonderful experience for all. I am now waiting to see what happens next in the field of city builder games, cause when I first saw cities released I thought yes, they have taken all the good parts of all city games and build a game that is going to blow my mind. So I guess if this game keeps going down the path of expansion packs and doesn't enhance the game for the better and what we are asking for it will become another dusty collector along side the many other city building games before it. I hope this isn't the case.
 
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It's a shame that a company that delivered such a good base game seem to prefer the pure monetary path of just adding cosmetic DLC for the "masses", instead of listening to forum feedback. In a sense, people go out of their way to give feedback when they are on forums, and to me it's saddening that those people are either ignored or just branded "haters", as as much effort they've put into their feedback it's pretty clear they are doing this out of love for the game, not to hate it. These people would certainly buy DLCs if devs would just cater for their feedback; and everyone else would be happy too. One of the suggestions I see the most is that DLCs were themed instead of adding something of everything, i.e. a transportation DLC, seasons DLC, etc. It's a good suggestion; it allows users to buy the DLC they want; it gives devs more time to work on the features of each DLC; and they'll gain a good reputation, which in turn increases their sales. I really see no reason for the devs to not do this other than "Paradox wants to milk money".

As said, it's a shame, because I, along with many others, love this game, and sincerely hope it won't flop or fall to the trap of other greedy publishers who ignore their customers.

For a bit of perspective; I often play NWI's Insurgency, which is a 15€ indie game that has never released paid DLC, and yet gets regularly updated with new content. Not once have I heard the devs say they're in a bad financial situation, and they're even offering their own developers to help create large mods. Why can't CO and Paradox follow their example?
 
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I would like to point out that I am not trying to start a smear campaign against Collosal Order, and I hope nobody actually wants this. I'd like to give the people here the opportunity to democratically and honestly show CO that we care about this project called Cities Skylines. I can see that so far 280 people have visited this thread. I said these numbers won't be an adequate sample, but if all those 280 people had voted we would be closer. Therefore, vote! All of you.
 
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I voted, but honestly, I don't think CO will care all that much. There have been plenty of threads like this and they never do. We don't matter, too few of us, see.

At this stage I'd be happy if they offer a Tram DLC as stand alone for a lower price, since trams are about the only thing I would want from Snowfall. All the other features sound not well thought-through and I'd almost pay not to have them:
- Road maintainance to boost speed? It's the other way around in the real world (well maintained roads don't reduce speed).
- Turn on the heating when it's raining? There's no connection between rain and heating in the real world, think summer rain if in doubt.
- Dublicate the piping you have already? Why on earth? Just make all pipes dual water-heating pipes by default.
- The snowplows sound ok, if nothing more than a re-skinned garbage service. But I'm not sure that we need more service vehicles on the road without a bumped-up agent limit.
- Don't get me started on the missing seasons. At least there's hope that modders will turn the thing around, as Rush Hour did with After Dark.


Oh, and if you want CO to listen, here's what we could do:

- Don't buy Snowfall, be sure to tell them why here and on Reddit.
- If you buy Snowfall (trams...), be sure to give a bad rating on Steam. They like to brag about their great After Dark rating and they use that as an excuse not to fix it.
- If you own After Dark, go give it a bad rating, too.
 
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Oh, and if you want CO to listen, here's what we could do:

- Don't buy Snowfall, be sure to tell them why here and on Reddit.
- If you buy Snowfall (trams...), be sure to give a bad rating on Steam. They like to brag about their great After Dark rating and they use that as an excuse not to fix it.
- If you own After Dark, go give it a bad rating, too.

Doesn't this come close to a smear campaign, I don't want to cast CO in a negative light, but still want to support them.
 
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I voted, but honestly, I don't think CO will care all that much. There have been plenty of threads like this and they never do. We don't matter, too few of us, see.

I hope our new contact man, Escher, will soon prove you wrong on that matter. (Even though so far, I haven't heard anything from him.)
 
Doesn't this come close to a smear campaign, I don't want to cast CO in a negative light, but still want to support them.

Only money matters in the real world, people can keep bashing the DLC all over the place but if enough folks keep buying the DLC it only shows that the direction they're taking is right. So if snowfall sells well then there's nothing wrong from the business standpoint and nothing will change in the future.
 
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Doesn't this come close to a smear campaign, I don't want to cast CO in a negative light, but still want to support them.

I want to support them as well, but I also want to nudge them in the right direction.

Thing is, they consider After Dark a success because of sales and Steam ratings. So these are the metrics they care about. Makes sense, since they are directly commercially relevant. Grumbling on some online forum is not.

So, if you want to communicate with them you need to speak the same language as them, i.e. affect the metrics they care about, affect sales and Steam ratings. If Snowfall is another commercial success, they have no incentive listening to people on online forums and change their way. All of our constructive criticism will just be water under the bridge, politely ignored. The third DLC will be just as much about optics, with some half-working new features and maybe another traffic option thrown in. If, however, Snowfall fails commercially, they might wonder why and might even start looking for ways to improve.
 
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I want to support them as well, but I also want to nudge them in the right direction.

Thing is, they consider After Dark a success because of sales and Steam ratings. So these are the metrics they care about. Makes sense, since they are directly commercially relevant. Grumbling on some online forum is not.

So, if you want to communicate with them you need to speak the same language as them, i.e. affect the metrics they care about, affect sales and Steam ratings. If Snowfall is another commercial success, they have no incentive listening to people on online forums and change their way. All of our constructive criticism will just be water under the bridge, politely ignored. The third DLC will be just as much about optics, with some half-working new features and maybe another traffic option thrown in. If, however, Snowfall fails commercially, they might wonder why and might even start looking for ways to improve.

you also run the risk that if snowfall fails... they might think we hate them, or they might throw in the towel and quit altogether. the world is run by people wanting a constant instant money flow. the moment, the VERY moment that there is a blip in their flow, they fold and try to find ANOTHER way to reach the flow, rather than wait it out....

it would be like... starting a city in the game...and the moment it goes into the negative amounts, you delete the city and start yet another city, rather than ride out the negative amount and try to get it positive again.
 
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you also run the risk that if snowfall fails... they might think we hate them, or they might throw in the towel and quit altogether. the world is run by people wanting a constant instant money flow. the moment, the VERY moment that there is a blip in their flow, they fold and try to find ANOTHER way to reach the flow, rather than wait it out....

it would be like... starting a city in the game...and the moment it goes into the negative amounts, you delete the city and start yet another city, rather than ride out the negative amount and try to get it positive again.

As they said themselves (answer to the first dev diary I think) they are not that fragile. I don't think any company is. All I'm saying is, if you really want to commicate with them meaningfully, use a language they understand. If you are grumbling a bit and then handing over your money, your grumbling ultimately means nothing.
 
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As they said themselves (answer to the first dev diary I think) they are not that fragile. I don't think any company is. All I'm saying is, if you really want to commicate with them meaningfully, use a language they understand. If you are grumbling a bit and then handing over your money, your grumbling ultimately means nothing.


I would really like to disprove what you say. Hence in addition to my call to vote on snowfall I would like to politely request CO to get in touch with us who are not content and communicate with us. A lot of us claim that you, CO, don't want to get in touch with us anymore, some are downright embittered, please disprove our complaints and disprove us. You can read this CO Martsuu, Escher, show us that you care.
 
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Only money matters in the real world, people can keep bashing the DLC all over the place but if enough folks keep buying the DLC it only shows that the direction they're taking is right. So if snowfall sells well then there's nothing wrong from the business standpoint and nothing will change in the future.

And exactly that is the reason so many things suck in the real world - everything is focused on the mass marked and big sales. Musicbuisness anyone?
 
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I think it is pre-mature to vote yet, and probably why you have so few. It's hard to say if we like it or not without playing first hand.

I probably won't pre-order as I did with after dark. I didn't find much use for it. I'll wait for the snow and see what I think.

I know I'd rather has fixes and content that affect play a little more. This game is very boring now that I've learned most of the rule and just sit and place roads, zone said roads, plop services, repeat. There needs to be more meat and potatoes, this game feels more like a mapmaker than a game.

I sure hope that put in a compass this time. It makes it easier to offer help and find your way around your own map. I figured it would have been put in last update as they added daylight, so the sun rises in the East and sets in the West, so a compass would seem logical to install.

and no I didn't vote.
 
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I think it is pre-mature to vote yet, and probably why you have so few. It's hard to say if we like it or not without playing first hand.
I agree, but they are not going to change the mechanics after the expansion is released... So I voted. I also really hope that the Snowfall patch will include fixes and improvements for the base game and After Dark as well.
 
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I agree, but they are not going to change the mechanics after the expansion is released... So I voted. I also really hope that the Snowfall patch will include fixes and improvements for the base game and After Dark as well.

I'm more than sure they'll have minor fixes for a lot of different things. Hopefully they'll even have some major fixes, but don't hold your breath.