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I know a great deal of Warcraft lore and know enough coding to do history files. Feel free to PM me. You'll want to decide relatively quickly whether you want to use RPG lore or not. Not enough lore exists to fill every county properly but the RPG could provide some more names. The downside of it is that it's been declared b canon at best.
 
I know a great deal of Warcraft lore and know enough coding to do history files. Feel free to PM me. You'll want to decide relatively quickly whether you want to use RPG lore or not. Not enough lore exists to fill every county properly but the RPG could provide some more names. The downside of it is that it's been declared b canon at best.

Not even b-canon, it is completely non-canon. Using information from RPG is like saying orcs are called orks and come from mushrooms.
 
Not even b-canon, it is completely non-canon. Using information from RPG is like saying orcs are called orks and come from mushrooms.
The RPG has quite a lot of usefull fluff lore that blizzard didnt care about in other places, things like naming systems, language systems (both useful for having e.g a location name for the the amani overrun Silvermoon and not have it actually named Silvermoon while under troll control).
 
The RPG has quite a lot of usefull fluff lore that blizzard didnt care about in other places, things like naming systems, language systems (both useful for having e.g a location name for the the amani overrun Silvermoon and not have it actually named Silvermoon while under troll control).

While this is true, it is extremely hard to distinguish between things which do not go against the lore and things that do. While ancient history like Troll Wars is not so problematic, as really the only canon history we have is Chronicle (there are other bits, but Chronicle is the newest and describes it more than anything else), new things are. Also, information about the races should be a huge no go. One example of RPG making its own lore is that Moonwells are basically smaller versions of Well of Eternity and therefore night elves do not allow high elves into their territory, because they would basically drain them. Another thing is age of high elves: in canon, all we know is that Anasterian was about 3000 years old and at the time of his death was seen as really old (I would guess something around 90 in our terms). But RPGs say they live about 300 years and become adult when they are 110, while in canon, Valeera was a child when Quel´Thalas fell, but few years later, she is an adult.
What I desribed above is similar to what you described: There is no statement about this in canon, but RPG states these things. Problem with this is that canon often hints at the way how Blizzard sees things (for example aging of high and blood elves, which is obviously similar to humans until they become adult) and using information from RPG would basically contradict the canon. As someone who roleplayed on private server with many older players, I have seen this attitude quite often. Information from Wowwiki (which is not being updated in many cases and sometimes even blatantly lies, as is in case of Orgrim´s Hammer, which according to it was destroyed in Dragon Soul by Deathwing, even though this is not stated anywhere) being used as basis for their stories, which contradicted canon, yet they didn´t even believe me, because they read it in RPG or Wowwiki, so it has to be true.
 
While this is true, it is extremely hard to distinguish between things which do not go against the lore and things that do. While ancient history like Troll Wars is not so problematic, as really the only canon history we have is Chronicle (there are other bits, but Chronicle is the newest and describes it more than anything else), new things are. Also, information about the races should be a huge no go. One example of RPG making its own lore is that Moonwells are basically smaller versions of Well of Eternity and therefore night elves do not allow high elves into their territory, because they would basically drain them. Another thing is age of high elves: in canon, all we know is that Anasterian was about 3000 years old and at the time of his death was seen as really old (I would guess something around 90 in our terms). But RPGs say they live about 300 years and become adult when they are 110, while in canon, Valeera was a child when Quel´Thalas fell, but few years later, she is an adult.
What I desribed above is similar to what you described: There is no statement about this in canon, but RPG states these things. Problem with this is that canon often hints at the way how Blizzard sees things (for example aging of high and blood elves, which is obviously similar to humans until they become adult) and using information from RPG would basically contradict the canon. As someone who roleplayed on private server with many older players, I have seen this attitude quite often. Information from Wowwiki (which is not being updated in many cases and sometimes even blatantly lies, as is in case of Orgrim´s Hammer, which according to it was destroyed in Dragon Soul by Deathwing, even though this is not stated anywhere) being used as basis for their stories, which contradicted canon, yet they didn´t even believe me, because they read it in RPG or Wowwiki, so it has to be true.
Not saying you should outright ignore information because a book (that is what, 10 years old now?) says otherwise.
Im saying it has some neat filler information.

E.g Blood elves get the event "Drain the Moonwells" if they conquer de jure Night elf land based on that bit of text you wrote.
As compared to nothing.

Such things.

And the things Blizzard never cared to mention (like family relations withing species that matter quite a lot here in the "should orcs have harems or be allowed lovers or just the one wife and nothing else" religious mishmash that is CK2).

Not to mention that Blizzard contradict themselves more times than anyone else ever does it.
 
E.g Blood elves get the event "Drain the Moonwells" if they conquer de jure Night elf land based on that bit of text you wrote.
As compared to nothing.
This is what I am talking about. While it was said in Warcraft III manual that Moonwells are from Well of Eternity, I have yet to see this mentioned in WoW, especially newer expansions. And in Legion, elves are literally creating a moonwell without even touching Well of Eternity and instead ask for blessing from the nature. Blood elves draining moonwels would be similar to blood elves draining druids.
And this is what I am talking about. If you use mindset "something is better than nothing", you will be creating mod that is not about Warcraft, but about fantasy world really similar to Warcraft. What will be more? High elves needing to obtain Sunwell Stones, to help them sate their hunger, even though there are just mape up by RPG? Half-elven daughter of Daelin Proudmoore with weak claim on Kul Tiras, just because it would be fun to see her conquer the kingdom?
Not to mention that time of Warcraft and WoW is filled with possible events. Do you want something for blood elves in Kalimdor? Make event for them once they reach Well of Eternity. Make them meet elves from Dire Maul. You could even have events where they try to learn druidic magic, as we have one blood elven druid in lore, so it is possible. You can make them find relics in Pandaria and create blood golems. But once you go this way, you will be creating fanfiction mod, not mod which takes information from canon sources and allows people to change the course of history. RPG is non-canon which means it holds the same amount of value as roleplayer on Argent Dawn telling everyone his character is a vampire and son of Kael´thas Sunstrider.

And the things Blizzard never cared to mention (like family relations withing species that matter quite a lot here in the "should orcs have harems or be allowed lovers or just the one wife and nothing else" religious mishmash that is CK2).
Orcs have one wife, as it is seen with any orc we know in the lore. Blizzard not saying "orcs do not have harems" doesn´t mean you can put concubines in the mod. It´s simple logic, if every orc we know has one wife, then logically, they are monogamous society.

Not to mention that Blizzard contradict themselves more times than anyone else ever does it.
Difference here is that Blizzard can change its lore. If in Vanilla A is true, but Legion says B is true, then we should logically assume B is true. But we can´t say: Well, I like A more, so A is true. This way, you will be creating Warcraft fanfiction mod, not Warcraft mod.
Not to mention that Warcraft lore is made by multiple authors with different understanding of the lore. That´s why you can´t read it like works of Tolkien or Martin, where it is one author who creates it and if he says A, then you can be damn sure A is true and there is nothing contradicting it in his previous published works.
Reading works from these huge fantasy/sci-fi universes requires understanding. If your mindset is "well, in 2004 they said A, but in 2015 they said B, so they are stupid and I will get to choose between A and B", you are not qualified enough to create things that maybe hundreds of people will play and even get their lore from (there are people out there who got to know Game of Thrones or Warhammer from their CK2 mods and you can be damn sure that if you ever finish this, there will be someone who will have his first contact with Warcraft through your mod). I am sorry, but that is true.

Not to mention that there are bookmarks where you could literally create your own stuff and nobody will mind. Troll Wars or splitting of Arathor have so little written lore you could go wild and nobody could say anything to you even if you create completely new realms. But going by "rule of cool" in bookmarks which are filled with lore is just wrong.
 
Good grief, get the stick out of your ass and stop taking everything literally..
This is what I am talking about. While it was said in Warcraft III manual that Moonwells are from Well of Eternity, I have yet to see this mentioned in WoW, especially newer expansions. And in Legion, elves are literally creating a moonwell without even touching Well of Eternity and instead ask for blessing from the nature. Blood elves draining moonwels would be similar to blood elves draining druids.
Thus, what i mentioned; "Things blizzard dont mention or dont care about", the moonwells played quite a big role in the first night elf quests with "go fill this fial in that moonwell so we can examine it and see what is wrong with the land" series of quests explaining what the moonwells did, what the area was focused around and how they were affected by everything around them just as nature blah blah hippie stuff.
After that blizzard went away from them and never turned back.
They could have done exactly the same thing during Cataclysm with nature raging left and right on a much larger scale than a furbolg clan going rogue in Teldrassil.
They could have established high elf version in Burning Crusade.
They could have done a shitload of things just for the sake of fluff and didnt.
Because moonwells are bloody unimportant in the grand scale of things.
They could have had half a quest of Deathwing draining them all when he rose from the crust of the planet and been done with them once and for all.
If they said "moonwells are like small wells of eternity, filled with pools of magical energy ready for the taking of whatever mage happens to pass by and wants to use it" then so be it.
The whole "rpg doesnt match with canon" issue is blizzards own fault in the first place, every time people have interviewed or talked to the authors Blizzard hire they always describe the "uh, yeah, there are dragons and things go bad and then you will have to make some dude go make it right" level instructions of how the book they do is affected by lore.
Wouldnt even be surprised if blizzard makes the next expansion directly contradict what cronicle says.
Just because they are blizzard and thats what they do.

And this is what I am talking about. If you use mindset "something is better than nothing", you will be creating mod that is not about Warcraft, but about fantasy world really similar to Warcraft. What will be more? High elves needing to obtain Sunwell Stones, to help them sate their hunger, even though there are just mape up by RPG?
You literally just desribed the relationship between blood elves and the giant green stones of fel energy that float all over quel'thalas.
Green floaty stones of which Kael had a few stabbed into his chest for extra heroin mana infusion.
A relationship created by blizzard.

Half-elven daughter of Daelin Proudmoore with weak claim on Kul Tiras, just because it would be fun to see her conquer the kingdom?
She does quite literally have a legitimate claim.
Even as a bastard-born unlegitimized child of another race.
Why do you see an issue with that?
Do you think blizzard would flinch at making something not of one race the leader of another race?

Not to mention that time of Warcraft and WoW is filled with possible events. Do you want something for blood elves in Kalimdor? Make event for them once they reach Well of Eternity. Make them meet elves from Dire Maul. You could even have events where they try to learn druidic magic, as we have one blood elven druid in lore, so it is possible. You can make them find relics in Pandaria and create blood golems. But once you go this way, you will be creating fanfiction mod, not mod which takes information from canon sources and allows people to change the course of history. RPG is non-canon which means it holds the same amount of value as roleplayer on Argent Dawn telling everyone his character is a vampire and son of Kael´thas Sunstrider.
Why yes, yes we could.
It seem you dont understand the point of CK2 mods.
They are not for playing out the canon lore.
They are for whatever the fuck you want to do.
Of course you can play the canon and not invade Dire Maul.
And you wont have any need of any non-canon things and will never see them.
And you might take over the whole world as Fel-possessed Kael'Thas and for the we need to have something prepared.
Im not saying it would happen every time.
Im saying if people took over all of Quel'Thalas as Zul'Jin they would want more of a reward for fulfilling the trolls destiny than merely a "gz, war ended".

Orcs have one wife, as it is seen with any orc we know in the lore. Blizzard not saying "orcs do not have harems" doesn´t mean you can put concubines in the mod. It´s simple logic, if every orc we know has one wife, then logically, they are monogamous society.
You do not seem to think further than "oh blizzard said it".
The orcs live in a tribal nomadic society where duels to the death (mak'gora) seem awfully common and raids on land occur left and right.
In those societies there tend to be more females than men, men die in raids, men die in duels, men die in their trials of manhood, men die in war, men die as warlock sacrifices.
There will be more females than males unless all females of males beaten in mak'gora die with him (which seems a waste), then those females either marry the same husband, marriages as such are less binding and thus conqubines are allowed or some females just never have children and the orc population dwindles.

Difference here is that Blizzard can change its lore. If in Vanilla A is true, but Legion says B is true, then we should logically assume B is true. But we can´t say: Well, I like A more, so A is true. This way, you will be creating Warcraft fanfiction mod, not Warcraft mod.
More how they set years for things.
Then suddenly they slim down those years and only half the characters are affected.
etc etc

Not to mention that Warcraft lore is made by multiple authors with different understanding of the lore. That´s why you can´t read it like works of Tolkien or Martin, where it is one author who creates it and if he says A, then you can be damn sure A is true and there is nothing contradicting it in his previous published works.
No, as i mentioned before its blizzard who cuts their own feet from beneath them.
Warhammer has a cartload of authors yet have very little inconsistencies because they have clear lines that they do not cross and clear instructions on what to do.
Blizzard on one hand gives free hand to authors and on the other says half are canon and half are not but never finally and always open for interpretation.
They could have had the RPG on canon or followed the RPG canon and it would have cost them nothing.
They could have kept their old lore and kept building, just ignoring or just not mentioning things they dont want anymore.
Or make it canon that it changed, make someone do a reform, make someone win a battle, conquer a castle, anything.

Reading works from these huge fantasy/sci-fi universes requires understanding. If your mindset is "well, in 2004 they said A, but in 2015 they said B, so they are stupid and I will get to choose between A and B", you are not qualified enough to create things that maybe hundreds of people will play and even get their lore from (there are people out there who got to know Game of Thrones or Warhammer from their CK2 mods and you can be damn sure that if you ever finish this, there will be someone who will have his first contact with Warcraft through your mod). I am sorry, but that is true.
Toppest of all the keks.
Reading what they do, from their oldest warcraft 1 manuals to Legion and seeing their own disregard for the lore they wrote themselves and throwing half of it down the hatch for no good reason or just overwriting things they already said takes a toll on a mans patience.
And eventually it ends.
And i am in my full rights to complain about them acting like asshats and mention all the things they do wrong and fuck up about.
You try to mention the Game of Thrones and Warhammer mods as if they followed the lore even remotely.
In the game of thrones mod you can deviate from the books at the first book bookmark by making Dany sail straight for kings landing with the golden company instead of marrying Khal Drogo.
This is exactly the same principle, you can play the lore if you want to.
But you dont have to.

Im starting to think you are not qualified to play a sandbox game where history is not a fixed red line in space-time.

Not to mention that there are bookmarks where you could literally create your own stuff and nobody will mind. Troll Wars or splitting of Arathor have so little written lore you could go wild and nobody could say anything to you even if you create completely new realms. But going by "rule of cool" in bookmarks which are filled with lore is just wrong.
Those are in by the way.
From the Arathorian alliance with the Elves against the Amani to Legion.
Its all in.

Would go further back but to go beyond the shattering is impossible since the map is fixed.
 
I get what y'all are saying about mixing Warcraft canon with rpg lore vs not doing it, but i think it's important to say that trying to make a mod that follows warcraft canon 100% in a game thats about making alternative history (like it's nearly impossible for a normal ck2 games outcome will mirror the real world 100% acurate) would be pritty hard. I think one could use the rpg lore when flushing out areas and blind history spots that has not been touched that much by canon, like the kul tirian town of Drisburg, it is only mention is rpg lore and not in canon but intill canon have maped out lore about a region or a historic event, useing the lore from rpg is acceptable or prefarable to me rather then haveing boring blindspots that mess up the balance of a game. Thus making so this mod have alternative events and such, that is inspired by rpg lore and other logical possibilites that is not in canon should occur since this is a alternative history game / sandbox game and i think that if you make a mod with those game function the mod should mirror it
 
You clearly misunderstood me. I never said player influencing how events turn out is bad. I said changing the lore so it would fit you in bookmarks is bad. And I used other fantasy mods as example of how things are done well: Everything is done according to the lore, until the game starts. Then it is free ride, where everything can happen. Can Lordaeron defeat Scourge? Sure. Should there be half-elven daughter of Daelin Proudmoore, who is only mentioned in RPG (this is why I mentioned her, because she is one of examples of stupid things put into RPGs, which were never mentioned in canon). No. Because this is not part of the lore. This is also why I was talking about your moonwell event. It is something that should not be a thing in Warcraft mod, because it is basically impossible. I used examples like blood golems and blood elves meeting Highborne in Dire Maul as examples of events which could happen (and some even happened) in the lore, because they are part of the lore. Blood elves sucking Well of Eternity for Arcane magic? Sure, it is filled with it. Blood elves sucking moonwells for Arcane magic? Nope, because it seems there really is no connection between them and Arcane magic, as RPG states.

Made-up universes have some internal logic, according to which they work. Just like human can´t jump 50 metres in our world, half-elves are extremely rare in Azeroth. Creating huge population of them would not make sense because of how that world works. Seeing thousands of them somewhere would be just as illogical as human jumping over Saint Peter´s Basilica. But RPGs work in different universe. Stormwind has more half-elves than Orgrimmar has orcs. Some high elves have Sunwell Stones (whatever the hell they are), which sate their hunger. And so on, and so on. Using information from them can create situation, where whole events in your mod do not make sense in Warcraft lore, because they are in fact two separate things. This is why I believe going down this path is not the right thing to do.

And about Blizzard changing their own lore. I would understand if Warcraft I and II were some sort of masterpieces (for example like Star Wars, which were changed by George because reasons, so original movies with their groundbreaking special effects are filled with pointless CGI), but they were not. Why do you think Warhammer fans still call Warcraft and Starcraft copies of WH Fantasy and WH 40K? That´s because they were just that. Not only that, but the lore was not that much developed and was being changed already before Warcraft III. Staying with old stories which were often underdeveloped and with theme copied from another fantasy universe is quite bad decision and I am glad they retconed some things, so they could be developed better (one example is draenei, originally they were just people killed by orcs and that´s about it...their new lore, where they are connected to eredar, is much better, simply because it is something more than "they were happy, then orcs attacked, they were killed, here is Akama, have fun").
 
By Ner'zhul, this looks fantastic already!
Just imagining how many options the new DLC will bring for this mod
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One question,the Scourge will use nomad mechanics,right,right?
 
By Ner'zhul, this looks fantastic already!
Just imagining how many options the new DLC will bring for this mod
Oh yeah! Really looking forward to the new DLC and new mechanics.
By Ner'zhul, this looks fantastic already!
One question,the Scourge will use nomad mechanics,right,right?
Unfortunately, nomads, besides the mechanics of the population, have a lot of others (clan system), that will look strange for the Scourge. But do not worry, undead will not be left without the features.
 
Unfortunately, nomads, besides the mechanics of the population, have a lot of others (clan system), that will look strange for the Scourge. But do not worry, undead will not be left without the features.

Yeah on second thought it would really be unfitting. The first thing that came to mind was the ability to pillage,and I haven't considered it much further.
Then again having the ability to control plagues (if the game mechanics allow that at all) would be a spectacular power for the undead.
 
Then again having the ability to control plagues (if the game mechanics allow that at all) would be a spectacular power for the undead.
You can't fully control Plague, but you can interact with it by modifiers to the province. But yes, Plague spreading will be important part of the game for the undeads. According to our plan the sixth diary will be about the Plague and the undead.
 
Warcraft: Guardians of Azeroth. Developer Diary №1 - Classes

Greetings, dear readers! This is the first development diary for Warcraft: Kings of Azeroth, in which we will tell you about the features of our class system and its implementation into the game.

First we will discuss the role of classes' mechanics in the game. A character's class will depend on fighting skills used in duels during battles (the duel mechanics will be similar to the system of Warhammer: Geheimnisnacht). In Warcraft: Kings of Azeroth, your ability to fight will affect not only on the well-being of your country, but also on the well-being of your family, especially if you decide to play as a Gnoll, an Orc, or as another "savage" race that often solve their problems by force. In addition to combat skills, certain classes bring entirely new in-game features. For example, the priests will be able to heal the wounds.

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There are limitations in the combination of race and class, more advanced than at this point in World of Warcraft. For example, for a Dwarf to become a Paladin, he would have to accept the Holy Light and nurture sympathy for it, and then he would be admitted to the recruits in one of the Paladin orders. A character who wants to be a Warlock would first have to learn the secret of magic (arcane) or shamanism, and then through the appropriate event chains, begin the study of dark magic (in this case, you will be secretly trained). If your country allows the practice of dark magic, you could train with one of the darker masters of magic publicly.

A child's education towards a particular class can start immediately after they reach the age of sixteen. They can learn on their own or find a mentor. Your class skill can vary from 1 to 10; starting with level 5, you can become a mentor to someone else.

Paid training is a good way for an aspiring character to hone their craft, or for a greedy character to make money. Rich students hoping to learn more in their craft can hire a mentor to teach them. Since tutors have a limited number of potential students that they can teach at a given time (up to three students), you should try to spend time finding a good teacher, because learning from real experts in the field is much more efficient than on your own, especially as self-comprehension does not always guarantee success.

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There is also a public type of training, based on the same system. An excellent example is Dalaran: you can send your child to study in the city of Mages, where he can become one of the famous Mages of the Kirin Tor. A character with a bad education is unlikely to be a good Mage, even if he studies in Dalaran. At the same time, a self-taught genius can become a legendary Mage, although he would likely need more time than they might with a capable teacher.

A multi-class character in the game is also possible, but limited. At this point, you can do a combination of Warrior and Mage, or Warrior and Shaman. We are going to add new combinations of classes to the game with the time. But the list of requirements for teaching additional classes is huge and, consequently, you need to fulfill higher requirements to get an access to these multi-classes. Having an additional class gives you new opportunities and, of course, increases your power.

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We have also included into the game such elements like Guilds, Orders and Brotherhoods that will unite the characters of the same class. At the moment, the Brotherhood of the Horse (for warriors) – the oder of the Knights of Azeroth exists in the game. Its mechanics is similar to the holy order from the vanilla game, and can be called to Stormwind to help the kingdom during difficult times of war. For Paladins, membership is requirement.

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Thank you for your attention!
 
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Is Blader of orc count as a class? Is yes can you make it clothes or avatar more like warcraft 3 (samurai) than in world of warcraft (no idea what blizzard think but I never accept they are Blader)
 
How do you plan to keep the performance optimised and prevent ridiculous amounts of bloat as seen in Warhammer: Geheimnisnacht?

Also, there are a lot of typos in that Order of the Silver Hand event.
 
Cool stuff :)

I think it would be good to give the "Order of the Silver Hand" and "Brotherhood of the Horse" titles the "short_name = yes" tag, so that they correctly appear in character titles as "the Brotherhood of the Horse" and such.
 
How do you plan to keep the performance optimised and prevent ridiculous amounts of bloat as seen in Warhammer: Geheimnisnacht?

Also, there are a lot of typos in that Order of the Silver Hand event.

There will probably be a significantly fewer amount of provinces than Geheimsnacht tbh.

Even including all of Azeroth and Draenor, there's only so many provinces you can include without resorting to fanon.
 
That terrain looks amazing. Although, and I am not sure here, because I forgot where I saw it, but aren´t those Vashj´ir islands there only since the Cataclysm? I think there was some quest mentioning how new islands appeared close to Stormwind and that´s why Horde was going there, because they could suddenly gain land so close to Alliance capital.

Also, do you plan to create faces for humans too, or will CK2 portraits be used for them?