Let's talk about rare resources...

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Ancillary

Captain
80 Badges
Oct 17, 2013
332
319
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Prison Architect: Psych Ward
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Prison Architect
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
...Specifically, the Big Three: volatile motes, exotic gasses, and rare crystals.

@grekulf recently revealed on stream that the non-housing districts on a ringworld will consume rare resources for upkeep in 2.3, including a mind-boggling 10(!) volatile motes per month for the agricultural segment (hopefully a bug in that particular build). I believe that this is the first time that districts--as opposed to buildings--have had a rare resource upkeep requirement, and there is justifiable speculation that the upcoming patch will apply the same to districts in an ecumenopolis.

If rare resources are going to be consumed at even higher rates going forward, then something needs to be done about the production of these critical elements. As it stands in the current version, I find balancing the production/consumption of rare resources in the mid-to-late game (with the attendant refinery spam) to be a tedious chore.

The problem isn't the mineral cost of synthesis; if anything, that could be increased in order to make natural deposits actually rewarding. It's the cost in building slots that creates a real bottleneck. Every refinery and mine produces a base 2 resources per month; with production bonuses, that can usually be boosted to 3. At best, this offsets the upkeep of two top-tier buildings, assuming I can get costs down to 80% with the Prosperity tradition and Functional Architecture civic.

Even worse, refineries and mines only give one pop job while occupying a building slot that took five pops to unlock. As a result, I can't concentrate rare resource production on dedicated refinery worlds because this would cause unemployment issues. Instead, I have to spread production across all my planets, offsetting the employment gap with top-tier research labs, commercial zones, alloy foundries, and so on (which in turn require rare resources to function). This reduces planet specialization.

I can think of several approaches to make this balancing act less tiresome. The most straightforward would be late game techs that unlock upgrades for refineries, allowing greater throughput (and employment) per building slot. Another solution might be ramping up the extraction of rare resources from deposits over time by making them function like the dimensional portal or subterranean civilization: They provide a number of miner jobs based on total population and don't require dedicated building slots to function. This would also have the salutary effect of making these natural deposits feel special; right now, they offer a small savings in minerals and nothing else.

I don't know. Maybe this isn't a big issue for other players. What do you think?
 
This isn't an issue for me at all. I can - without even particularly trying - end up making +50 profit of each of the big three on a halfway-decent sized empire.

Though I do agree natural deposits could be made more impressive.
 
This isn't an issue for me at all. I can - without even particularly trying - end up making +50 profit of each of the big three on a halfway-decent sized empire.

Though I do agree natural deposits could be made more impressive.
I wonder if this is a tall vs. wide thing. Do you try to squeeze all the potential you can out of your planets, or do you tend to let them reach a natural equilibrium once all the resource districts are built but before all the buildings are unlocked? I can see how a player that does the latter and focuses on expansion through conquest would have fewer issues with rare resources.
 
I wonder if this is a tall vs. wide thing. Do you try to squeeze all the potential you can out of your planets, or do you tend to let them reach a natural equilibrium once all the resource districts are built but before all the buildings are unlocked? I can see how a player that does the latter and focuses on expansion through conquest would have fewer issues with rare resources.
Basically what I do is I have a core of 3-4 City Worlds (One for Alloys, 1 for CG, 1 for Research, and my capitol for assorted of those and Unity), and everything else is a Rural World loaded with the +Energy +Mineral +Food buildings, Rare Resource stuff, and rounded out with strongholds. I'm a perfectionist so I don't let them get any overcrowding or unemployment, and I use Pop Controls to achieve that, unless I'm doing a gimmicky Utopian Abundance build.
 
I wonder if this is a tall vs. wide thing. Do you try to squeeze all the potential you can out of your planets, or do you tend to let them reach a natural equilibrium once all the resource districts are built but before all the buildings are unlocked? I can see how a player that does the latter and focuses on expansion through conquest would have fewer issues with rare resources.

I think you are right that it is more of an issue for tall play (my usual playstayle) and I agree with the OP that it is currently a tedious bore having to juggle rare resource production to fulfil the needs of all the buildings that use them.

We need upgraded plants to extract more resources so you don't have to spam them everywhere, especially if they are planning on having them as a requirement for ecu and ring world districts. Also, rare resources in systems are currently fairly pointless because they end up providing only a tiny fraction of what you need.
 
For me my resources are set up like this.
My smallest planets are tech worlds, large planets with very few resource districts are ecus which also contain labs, the rest are refineries. Most of my fortresses are on habs. If I find myself in need of extra rares then I use a combination of refineries and foundrys on habs. For the record I play a pretty tall game (alot of inward perfection lately) and find I have no trouble keeping up with my empires demand for every resource including rares.
 
If filthy xenos occupy the system, then take them :D one of the very few times I use claim war goal. Usually I go for vassalization.

Distribution can be weird, I got recently a system with FOUR crystals. Nice...

Also again Map the Stars makes things a lot easier, specially for living metal. Get a meticulous scientist and enjoy the show.
 
Tall builds and smaller maps rare resources are a huge problem. People that play on large maps don't see it as an issue because you have tons of these deposits.

I despise rare resources because my economy crashes because of them quickly in the late game because, simply, my (small) maps aren't big enough to contain enough of them. I still need to be able to fight off the 500k endgame crisis, but I only have 4 crystal deposits in my entire empire.
 
Tall builds and smaller maps rare resources are a huge problem. People that play on large maps don't see it as an issue because you have tons of these deposits.

I despise rare resources because my economy crashes because of them quickly in the late game because, simply, my (small) maps aren't big enough to contain enough of them. I still need to be able to fight off the 500k endgame crisis, but I only have 4 crystal deposits in my entire empire.

Sapce based rare resources make up next to nothing of my rare resource income as far as gasses, motes and crystals go and I play on huge maps. Also it is pretty rare for me to find more then 4 of any of them in space if Im playing tall so I would say the size of the map shouldnt really matter since it comes down to how many refineries you can build on planets or habs.
 
Sapce based rare resources make up next to nothing of my rare resource income as far as gasses, motes and crystals go and I play on huge maps. Also it is pretty rare for me to find more then 4 of any of them in space if Im playing tall so I would say the size of the map shouldnt really matter since it comes down to how many refineries you can build on planets or habs.
Huge maps also means huge numbers of colonized planets.
 
Huge maps also means huge numbers of colonized planets.

A player controls the number of habitable planets on any size galaxy, personally I play with .25 habitable. Huge maps also mean more empires competing for resources unless you turn them way down which is also an option on small maps. So again huge maps are better for alot of things (leviathans, unique systems, ect.) But when it comes to rare resources the size of the map really doesnt come into play.
 
I am in favor of making natural deposits in space and on planets stronger. An upgradeable factory for them would also be helpful, because I just spam them on every possible planet to feed other buildings.
 
Agreed because of upgradable refineries

I would love upgradable refineries! Even if a tier 2 refinery only produced 2 jobs instead of 1. If this doesn't come to the base game it should definitely be a mod. Fully a 1/4 to 1/3 of my planets end up doubling as refineries, would be nice to free up some of that space.
 
I end up concentrating my refineries on worlds that have a ton of resource districts (which provide a lot of jobs to offset the fact that each slot uses only 1 job). It may not be a popular opinion, but the bottleneck of them eating up a lot of building slots is kind of the point: if you want to set up one super-world for alloys, tech or consumer goods, it'll need a rural hinterland to support it.
 
Upgraded refinery probably isn't going to be a thing. Stellaris designer seems to want to stick with Upgraded Buildings = Rare Resource costs shenanigans, and it would be kind of silly to do this for the buildings that produced said resources, probably why we didn't have an upgraded refinery from the start of 2.0.