Island Quest - 1.21 (all the islands and nothing but islands)

[mackwolfe]

Hello and welcome to a new AAR.

After my last AAR featuring an unusual start ( USA for World Conquest starting as a colonizer), I want to try another AAR that forces unconventional play.

So here's the premise: Start as an Island nation and conquer all the Islands in the world, without owning any mainland provinces at any time in the game. Kind of a reverse Switzerlake. But without the option of mindlessly blobbing and then releasing the mainland provinces.

Since there is no mechanism in eu4 to enforce this, some clarifications are necessary:
1) an island is any province that requires either transports or crossing a strait to get to it from mainland America or Eurasia-Africa . Therefore, Australia will count as an Island for this run. Sjaelland also counts as an island, but Nordjylland and Crimea do not .
2)I will not own any mainland provinces *at any time in the game*, except temporarily to release or feed a vassal, or for claim fabrication or CB generation etc.
3) in other words, I cannot own any cores on the mainland , either through vassal integration, colonization or direct coring.
Rules 2 and 3 are to avoid the obvious strategy of blobbing like usual, then releasing mainland provinces to a subject at the end.
4)Can start as any nation that does not have cores on the mainland ( see rule 3), so England is out.
5)Final goal of the run is to own and core ALL islands including empty colonies in the pacific.

So, how many Islands are there in eu4? I don't know for sure. I will keep a running tally through the run. I estimate there are approximately 40 islands containing about 200 provinces* . I ask any readers who sub to post their estimate of islands and provinces when they join. We will see who was closest at the end.

*: for purposes of this count, provinces that span multiple tiny islands count as one island ( e.g Chios is one island, Bahamas one island). Japan would be 4 islands ( 5 if you count Ryu Kyu) with about 40 provinces.


Finally, before I start, some thoughts on the starting nation.
I already ruled out England since they own mainland provinces ( also would be a bit too easy). Denmark out for same reason. Leading remaining candidates would be:
- Scotland : fairly big, in Europe so high tech, can colonize to Caribbean . But far away from the richer islands in East Asia
-One of the Indonesian island nations - either Majapahit ( Hindu , high dev) or Brunei or Pasai ( Sunni, slightly smaller). Great options to expand in rich spice islands and Australia, and hop to Indian ocean and eventually Atlantic
-A Japanese nation . Japan has bigger Dev than Indonesia, but the rich lands of Indonesia are downstream from it on the trade network.

I am leaning most towards Majapahit as the best start.

And to kickstart the Island count, I estimate 40 islands and 200 provinces.

 

[atwix]

why not custom nation and give yourself nice bonuses for campaign like this?

you could torture yourself and pick the maldives! or Ainu! Siberian island clan council and whatnot.

or... a madagascar island nation!

or tidore/ternate/buton/makasar

suppose you need to look at all their ideas

 

[mackwolfe]

well for a truly hard start, one can try Haida . They start as an island, you know .

For an OPM start, certainly Tidore/Ternate are feasible. They are well protected with great ideas and easy colonization routes. I thought of Madagascar. Sakalava has good ideas, but would be difficult to nail down Zanzibar node without taking mainland provinces. Moluccas node on the other hand is all islands.

As for Ainu or Maldives - I wanted a different campaign and not an impossible one!

 

[alexti]

So here's the premise: Start as an Island nation and conquer all the Islands in the world, without owning any mainland provinces at any time in the game. Kind of a reverse Switzerlake. But without the option of mindlessly blobbing and then releasing the mainland provinces.

Another interesting idea

Since there is no mechanism in eu4 to enforce this, some clarifications are necessary:
1) an island is any province that requires either transports or crossing a strait to get to it from mainland America or Eurasia-Africa . Therefore, Australia will count as an Island for this run. Sjaelland also counts as an island, but Nordjylland and Crimea do not .
2)I will not own any mainland provinces *at any time in the game*, except temporarily to release or feed a vassal, or for claim fabrication or CB generation etc.
3) in other words, I cannot own any cores on the mainland , either through vassal integration, colonization or direct coring.
Rules 2 and 3 are to avoid the obvious strategy of blobbing like usual, then releasing mainland provinces to a subject at the end.
4)Can start as any nation that does not have cores on the mainland ( see rule 3), so England is out.
5)Final goal of the run is to own and core ALL islands including empty colonies in the pacific.

I would remove exception from (2). Not being able to hold any mainland provinces even temporary would add some interesting considerations

And to kickstart the Island count, I estimate 40 islands and 200 provinces.

I would guess 90 islands and 300 provinces

well for a truly hard start, one can try Haida . They start as an island, you know .

For an OPM start, certainly Tidore/Ternate are feasible. They are well protected with great ideas and easy colonization routes. I thought of Madagascar. Sakalava has good ideas, but would be difficult to nail down Zanzibar node without taking mainland provinces. Moluccas node on the other hand is all islands.

As for Ainu or Maldives - I wanted a different campaign and not an impossible one!

I think there are several groups of starts here:
- anything in Indonesia is quite easy. Some starts are a bit harder than others, but there are plenty of good options to expand right away;
- Japanese Daimyos are quite easy. Form Japan and you are already a strong power. After that it's easy to expand into Indonesia.
- Scotland is somewhat easy. You have plenty of options to expand and the only obstacle is England.
- any other independent European nation - moderate. Expanding can be tricky because you need to fight stronger nations. Ireland is probably a bit easier than Mediterranean nations.
- Venice's vassals - difficult. Not only need to get an independence, but also need not to get annexed in some ill-advised Venice war. Maybe moderate if playing on normal.
- Madagascar nations - moderate. You have an early expansion on the island and then it's not too difficult to reach the Indonesia.
- Ceylon, Hormuz - moderate. Need to no CB to expand, but relatively strong and rich for the minors
- Maldives, Ryukyu, Ainu - difficult (or maybe not). There is no easy expansion option, but I don't think any of them in a real danger, so they can probably wait until Exploration to expand
- Jaffna - difficult unless VIJ collapses
- Haida - very difficult (and boring). There are no real expansion options for quite some time. There is no one to no CB, so I guess it's migrating back and forth while waiting for someone to bring civilization to you, preferably without annexing, so that you can build the ships and jump to Asia.

My recommendation would be The Knights - it's not too easy and too overly difficult and being able to raid the enemies will fit nicely with the islands-only theme

 

[parats]

Madagascar could be quite nice and has some good shots at exploration starts.

subbed!

 

[Thorfindel]

My recommendation would be The Knights - it's not too easy and too overly difficult and being able to raid the enemies will fit nicely with the islands-only theme

This has my vote. Or a custom nation with raiding as an idea. It feels very natural to raid the mainland world from your pirate islands.

Go custom nation with Norse and take a Viking theme with raiding if you want to raid absolutely everyone.

 

[cliffo]

The other thing to consider is how you're going to get a CB on a lot of these islands. It feels like some sort of build that minimises the cost of increasing stability would be a viable option, as you're going to be no CBing a lot? Or do you just colonize and fabricate until Imperialism, which seems kinda dull. Maybe you can be bright about fabricating onto mainland areas of nations who have islands and then jumping around from there.

 

[Silverbow]

Custom nation in Australia/New Zealand. Means you don't spawn CNs and keep all the land for yourself. (I've done such run way back when they released custom nations as Jewish Maori)

 

[stnylan]

This sounds intriguing and fun.

 

[Tom D.]

Very original setting, I once had a similar goal (as Portugal, own nothing else than CoT or estuaries as colonies/overseas provinces), but without developing that was quite difficult, but still quite enjoying. For the amount of islands/provinces: does it have to be a guess or are we allowed to actually count them ? Definitely subbed.

 

[da-toom]

Go for Thomond. They have some pretty good NI with a global settler increase.

I guess for 200 Islands and 500 Provinces

 

[Adamgerd]

subbed
I guess 80 islands and 400 provinces

 

[mackwolfe]

Great comments everyone. thanks.

why not custom nation and give yourself nice bonuses for campaign like this?

It seems others agree with you on this. Maybe I will.

I would remove exception from (2). Not being able to hold any mainland provinces even temporary would add some interesting considerations

Hmm. I think I will remove that exception, especially if I go with a custom nation.

I think there are several groups of starts here:

The Knights - it's not too easy and too overly difficult

The knights not "too overly difficult". You jest , of course. Remember I did not succeed in my USA WC run. So I am not a fan of really hard.
On a serious note, if you cannot blob on mainland, any mediterranean nation will continue to be so small that they are vulnerable till they escape to New World.

Go custom nation with Norse and take a Viking theme with raiding if you want to raid absolutely everyone.

I like that suggestion very , very much. I am looking up Norse religion in eu4 right now. For roleplay, this is perfect: "A clan from the doomed Vinland colony survives on an island in Newfoundland. Protected by the sea, the Norse are safe from natives and thrive. But as their numbers outgrow the tiny island, they recall their past Viking ways and embark on a world raiding spree, hewing to the safety of islands , never to settle on the mai land".

you're going to be no CBing a lot? Or do you just colonize and fabricate until Imperialism

The finishers on Exploration and Expansion will allow you to fabricate pretty much all over the world except Europe. But , yes, some no CB wars will be needed.

Custom nation in Australia/New Zealand. Means you don't spawn CNs and keep all the land for yourself.

Another good idea for roleplay. Maybe a variation on a Jewish lost tribe of israel setting.

Regarding the CN formation. I think a CN in Australia may be plus , if you start in Indonesia . If you followed by last USA AAR, you know that you can gift a CN a gazillion ducats ( and lots of land ) before you release them and switch to playing as them.

 

[mackwolfe]

I think there are several groups of starts here:
- anything in Indonesia is quite easy. Some starts are a bit harder than others, but there are plenty of good options to expand right away;
- Japanese Daimyos are quite easy. Form Japan and you are already a strong power. After that it's easy to expand into Indonesia.
- Scotland is somewhat easy. You have plenty of options to expand and the only obstacle is England.
- any other independent European nation - moderate. Expanding can be tricky because you need to fight stronger nations. Ireland is probably a bit easier than Mediterranean nations.
- Venice's vassals - difficult. Not only need to get an independence, but also need not to get annexed in some ill-advised Venice war. Maybe moderate if playing on normal.
- Madagascar nations - moderate. You have an early expansion on the island and then it's not too difficult to reach the Indonesia.
- Ceylon, Hormuz - moderate. Need to no CB to expand, but relatively strong and rich for the minors
- Maldives, Ryukyu, Ainu - difficult (or maybe not). There is no easy expansion option, but I don't think any of them in a real danger, so they can probably wait until Exploration to expand
- Jaffna - difficult unless VIJ collapses
- Haida - very difficult (and boring). There are no real expansion options for quite some time. There is no one to no CB, so I guess it's migrating back and forth while waiting for someone to bring civilization to you, preferably without annexing, so that you can build the ships and jump to Asia.

Nice rundown of historical options.
I think of the islands in eu4 as being in 2 big clusters: North Atlantic ( Caribbean, British Isles, Mediterranean, Baltic isles) and Indo-pacific ( Japan, Indonesia, Australia, Oceania, Madagascar) . The two groups are separated by about 700 units between St Helena island and Madagascar, so cannot be crossed till Diplo tech 13 or so . Within each group, you can island hop without difficulty.

Whichever group you start in , it will be a while before you can reach the other one. Each group has pluses and minuses, but the Indo-pacific group is certainly easier to start in.

 

[Badesumofu]

Looks interesting! I'm in.

The finishers on Exploration and Expansion will allow you to fabricate pretty much all over the world except Europe. But , yes, some no CB wars will be needed.

Exploration will give you missions for the TC areas, won't it? Should render Expansion not required which good since Expansion is kind of bad.

Custom nation sounds like a good idea, one with colonists in its traditions. Somewhere that will quickly have coring range to Caribbean would be good. Or New Zealand if you want to peacefully expand through colonies early - there is some high dev land there.

 

[mackwolfe]

Looks interesting! I'm in.

Welcome in. But what is your island / province estimate?

Custom nation sounds like a good idea, one with colonists in its traditions.

I'm not so sure about this. The colonist is expensive. And you get one in the 1st exploration idea, so relatively quickly. If you start in Indonesia it is a bit superfluous as you have little colonizer competition at first. If you start in Atlantic and want to grab Caribbean, then it is helpful. You are right that it should go in traditions , as opposed to later NI.

 

[alexti]

I like that suggestion very , very much. I am looking up Norse religion in eu4 right now. For roleplay, this is perfect: "A clan from the doomed Vinland colony survives on an island in Newfoundland. Protected by the sea, the Norse are safe from natives and thrive. But as their numbers outgrow the tiny island, they recall their past Viking ways and embark on a world raiding spree, hewing to the safety of islands , never to settle on the mai land".

If you want to stick to more plausible history, you may want to play as Greenland colony that turned to the old gods in the attempt to counter famine and climate change

I'm not so sure about this. The colonist is expensive. And you get one in the 1st exploration idea, so relatively quickly. If you start in Indonesia it is a bit superfluous as you have little colonizer competition at first. If you start in Atlantic and want to grab Caribbean, then it is helpful. You are right that it should go in traditions , as opposed to later NI.

I don't think it's worth taking an extra colonist. It depends a bit on what start you choose, but having some military traditions can make your initial expansion easier. If you pick an isolated start, increased colonial range can make a difference, some naval ideas could also be useful, especially if you plan to play on European side. But given the goals of the campaign and the custom starts that are being considered you will probably have more points than you really need.

 

[Silverbow]

IIRC I took extra colonist as tradition (don't think you can afford two no matter what). I would disagree about it being not worth it, it allowed me to grow quickly right out of the gates instead of waiting a long time for exploration.

Also, if your capital is in Australia, you can make all the Asian islands that you will colonize and conquer early into trade companies, earning *massive* amounts of money.

 

[mackwolfe]

If you want to stick to more plausible history, you may want to play as Greenland colony that turned to the old gods in the attempt to counter famine and climate change

I played a bit last night with a custom Vinland nation. NOt being able to annex mainland clay certainly changed how I would normally play. I also found that land in the nation designer is very cheap compared to ideas. So I don't think I'll want to start with a single province/ island, but rather with as much as allowed by designer.

QUOTE="Silverbow, post: 22834100, member: 532243"]IIRC I took extra colonist as tradition (don't think you can afford two no matter what).[/QUOTE

I don't think it's worth taking an extra colonist. It depends a bit on what start you choose, but having some military traditions can make your initial expansion easier. If you pick an isolated start, increased colonial range can make a difference, some naval ideas could also be useful, especially if you plan to play on European side.

I think colonial range gives the most "bang for the buck" in the designer. Range would allow me to cross from Atlantic to Pacific or Indian ocean sooner ( or vice versa). The colonist would be nice, but quite expensive . I definitely want to include ability to raid coast.

So what I am leaning towards for now is a custom Norse religion nation in NewFoundland/Greenland area , oriented towards raiding and privateering. Will first complete the Island Quest, and if that turns out to be too easy ( doubt it - you can only grow so much on islands only , and being so spread out geographically brings its own set of challenges), I will finish the run with completion of the "For Odin" achievement. So starting parameters would be 200 points unit in nation designer and Norse religion, which are required for the "For Odin" achievement. If I fail in the Island Quest, I may restart with an easier nation in the Far East.

 

[scrubbykoala]

I think colonial range gives the most "bang for the buck" in the designer. Range would allow me to cross from Atlantic to Pacific or Indian ocean sooner ( or vice versa). The colonist would be nice, but quite expensive . I definitely want to include ability to raid coast.

I agree with this. Extra colonist is good if there is a lot of land to colonize (i.e. colonizing North/South America for First Come First Serve achievement) but not good if you only need to get the few island provinces. The issue is getting there, not colonizing per se. Also, having an extra colonist is a moot point if you can't afford the expense.