Muslims have always been an integral part of history. Muslims and non-Muslims may agree on the aspects not shown in the games. This thread is to deliberate, suggest and discuss on how to add the Muslim flavour to the game.
Islamic & Muslim Immersion Thread
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The Sufi Schools
- Ba 'Alawi (Shia)
- Chishti Order (Sunni)
- Naqshbandi (Sunni)
- Senussi (Sunni)
- Bektashi (Shia)
- Qadiri (Sunni)
- Shadhili (Sunni)
- Suharwardi (Sunni)
- Safavi (Shia)
I really hope that CK3 treats Islamic part of the world better than CK2 did. Medieval Period was their Golden Age and by all rights they should get an equal treatment than Christians, but in later updates... frankly, you'd think that Pagans were Christianity's greatest nemesis instead of Muslims. And there's a LOT of good and fun features that one can develop by looking at Islamic world in this period.
Unfortunately, judging by what was said at press conferences and interviews, I'm not optimistic -_-
Unfortunately, judging by what was said at press conferences and interviews, I'm not optimistic -_-
The Clerical Hierarchy
For Sunni:
Caliph
Shaykh al-Islam
Mujadid
Mujtahid and Mufti
Mullah
Mawlana
For Shia:
Caliph
Imam
Ayatollah
For Ibadi and others:
Sultan
Shaykh al-Kabeer
Caliph
Shaykh al-Islam
Mujadid
Mujtahid and Mufti
Mullah
Mawlana
For Shia:
Caliph
Imam
Ayatollah
For Ibadi and others:
Sultan
Shaykh al-Kabeer
Names and secular titles are something that would be nice.
In ck2 they were both based on culture (with the exception of clerical once)
I feel that there should be names added in to culture and religion and that they should mix.
For example:
Norse =
- Male names: Harald
- Dynasty names: Yngling
Muslim =
- Male names: Muhammed
- Dynasty names: Idrisid
Thus a randomly generated character might end up with a name with a name like:
Harald Idrisid
or
Muhammed Yngling
of course a purley islamic (arab) name or a purley culural (norse in this case) might also be produced.
the randomly generated name of a new born child would likewise have a chance of being muslim (50% seems reasonable)
as for title I feel the adoption of sultan as the ruling title might be something you will have to conscius decision as many rulers continued to use their own like "Mansa" or "Shah" even after
conversion.
In ck2 they were both based on culture (with the exception of clerical once)
I feel that there should be names added in to culture and religion and that they should mix.
For example:
Norse =
- Male names: Harald
- Dynasty names: Yngling
Muslim =
- Male names: Muhammed
- Dynasty names: Idrisid
Thus a randomly generated character might end up with a name with a name like:
Harald Idrisid
or
Muhammed Yngling
of course a purley islamic (arab) name or a purley culural (norse in this case) might also be produced.
the randomly generated name of a new born child would likewise have a chance of being muslim (50% seems reasonable)
as for title I feel the adoption of sultan as the ruling title might be something you will have to conscius decision as many rulers continued to use their own like "Mansa" or "Shah" even after
conversion.
They really need to put more emphasis on the Mutazilite and Asharite doctines beyond a trait to pick
And not just the Mutazilite and Ashari, there exists another which ironically is what most Muslims in the world are, Maturidi. However, this term is seldom used and these are famously known as Hanafis and belong to Turkey, South Asia and China
With knights being a gameplay mechanic, I hope Mamluk (slave) knights will be a feature in Muslim courts. After all, the Mamluk Sultanate took over Egypt after overthrowing the Ayyubids.
He probably meant something different...
A thread called Qabila DLC suggestion where I put a few ideas, analyses etc. which were meant to improve CK2's immersion of desert tribal societies as well as generally the MENA and West Africa regions.
It was primarily meant for and tailored around CK2 mechanics, so most of it will need to be adapted for CK3 reality, but those ideas and concepts can serve as inspiration
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I have been told that you have been contributing to this game on Middle Eastern Immersion. Would love to work with you.
Yes I know Arabic. But I'm sorry if I didn't make everything clear for you.
@Trunting expressed a wish that as much as possible of a suggestion/concept named "Qabila" (link to the suggestion) will make it in the game (some parts of this concept already made it into the game as confirmed by the devs).
You replied by posting that you posted a hierarchy and nomenclature of Arab tribes, then I replied to you that he meant something else. Tried to be helpful.
The Qabila is a "technical name" for the suggestion. The point isn't whether we call that suggestion Qabila or Qabail or whatever, but what is inside the sugegstion, which aims to adapt game mechanics to the ways how Arab/Islamic medieval societies worked (according to my extensive studies of Middle Eastern and African history).
It may add immersion to have everything named in Arabic, but from my point of view, much more immersion would be added if the game creates specific features and game mechanics, which will simulate how medieval Islamic societies worked. As I talked with the devs and other CK2 gamers, they will prefer to have the mechanics called in English rather than 100% correct Arabic, because that will make Islamic gameplay attractive for the general audience, not just Arabic speakers.
EDIT: Many of the ideas in that sugegstion, however, were designed around ways how CK2 works, but not around CK3 mechanics, so I need to adapt those ideas for CK3
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Well, it seems they took the Clan mechanic at least. But nothing so far concerning governors and slave armies.
Do two separate threads are needed for Muslim and Arab immersion? Yes I know there were still many non-Muslim Arabs in this era but... I mean, if the first thread meant "cultural traits of Arabs separate from Islam" then similar threads should be made for Iranian peoples, Turkic people, Berbers, Somalis...
Thanks, I looked at the thread and found it quite amazing. I also thought that it would be premature to work on most of the aspects as we are accustomed to CK2 mechanics.
While making the thread, I thought about the Arabs who weren't muslim like the Mirzahim Jews and Arabized Copts.
Couple things I'd like to see but don't think they'll make it into the base game (but would be nice for DLC or free patches):
- House of Wisdom in Baghdad and getting people of all cultures and faiths there to do scholarly things
- Importance of Mamluks, Turks, and other slave soldiers in the political history of the Arab and Muslim world. For example, many Slavic slave soldiers in Andalusia ended up becoming founders of their own dynasties during the Taifa periods.
- Splitting off of some of the Arab cultures, including a separate Yemeni and Omani culture as they aren't the same necessarily as what CK2 called Bedouin Arabs
- Ibadi as a separate branch of Islam from the get go unlike CK2 where it took several years before the devs changed that. Also Nestorian as a separate branch for that matter too.
- Something to represent the Indian Ocean trade whenever they do a trade related DLC, during Crusader Kings time period the maritime silk road grew increasingly more important than the more famous land based silk road. Arab and Persian merchants played a major role in these sea based trade routes after the decline of the Sogdian dominated ones in overland Central Asia
- House of Wisdom in Baghdad and getting people of all cultures and faiths there to do scholarly things
- Importance of Mamluks, Turks, and other slave soldiers in the political history of the Arab and Muslim world. For example, many Slavic slave soldiers in Andalusia ended up becoming founders of their own dynasties during the Taifa periods.
- Splitting off of some of the Arab cultures, including a separate Yemeni and Omani culture as they aren't the same necessarily as what CK2 called Bedouin Arabs
- Ibadi as a separate branch of Islam from the get go unlike CK2 where it took several years before the devs changed that. Also Nestorian as a separate branch for that matter too.
- Something to represent the Indian Ocean trade whenever they do a trade related DLC, during Crusader Kings time period the maritime silk road grew increasingly more important than the more famous land based silk road. Arab and Persian merchants played a major role in these sea based trade routes after the decline of the Sogdian dominated ones in overland Central Asia
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On topic. I’d love to see more effort put into the Muslim and Islamic nations. I always play in Europe, but love a good fight in the Muslim lands. Would be cool to see different Islamic nations that are different in their own way.
On topic. I’d love to see more effort put into the Muslim and Islamic nations. I always play in Europe, but love a good fight in the Muslim lands. Would be cool to see different Islamic nations that are different in their own way.
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