I don't know why so many people complain :-(

[xsmilingbanditx]

Honestly...I know there are issues (WT being one of them and the main one for me).
But I had so many fun games. For example when I played Germany and took Poland and Netherlands early, but feared all the time Poland or Netherlands would join the Allies because Chinese war started early and nationalist spain suddenly wiped the floor with the Republicans.
And when I demanded the Czechs, France denied and started their Entente while GB wanted to give in so they split up. Now I have to do I naval invasion (!) to get France because GB went on a guarantee spree for Belgium ans Swiss...
And all this delays me hard from taking the USSR or building a proper airforce for GB.
It may be ahistorical but a hell lot of fun and you got to think off your fleet to adapt. Splitting your resources and planning strategically ahead for the different needs...that's really cool imho and works very well.

I know, this is my opinion. But honestly, the game does not deserve the hate some (albeit Vokal minority) utter in the forum.

Edit: Typ0rs due to Smartphone

 

[LordChucky]

G.I.F.T. for the most part I assume.

 

[Doctoxic]

the game works and it can on occasion be fun - however it is very broken and not anywhere up to the quality anyone should expect from a game you pay actual money for - i really don't understand what QA have been doing for the last year

so my opinion is yes, it does deserve all the criticism its getting

 

[oerbaa]

If anyone asks why we complain so much, they clearly aren't paying attention to the game nor the threads being posted. I just quit a game because of the frustration from my allied AI, which I will post in another thread soon.

 

[xsmilingbanditx]

The AI is always a thing and never will be perfect. And I did read about the issues. Thing is, posting the same issues over and over and over and over again does not solve them. It's annoying like trying to reason with a child that always Asus "But why?" on every argument.
The sad truth I learned during Software Development is the simply fact that you will never be able to test everything with limited resources. The main focus is stability, performance and compatibility.
With the relatively complex mechanics as is you just cannot test the scaling in detail. It's the way it is.
On the three things I posted, QA did a great job imho. I had zero issues with any of the three. The other problems will be taken care of. It's a fact that I accept and 1.1 improved alot .
In the end it's about expectations vs. reality. The higher the expectations (or the more they are off from reality) the harder reality punches you in the face.

 

[sunzoner]

Poor ai is one thing. No ai is another. In my thread, ai is missing in 1.1.0. Missing.

It went thought the job of declaring wars, but no troops movement. None at all from both sides...

 

[Rizel]

Stop making excuses for the AI.
Germany abandoning it's homeland while engaged in a three front war to go fight in Ethiopia is a thing that should have never existed.
It completely ruins all immersion and fun from the game.

 

[oerbaa]

What you said @xsmilingbanditx sounds nice and all, but a single player game with great stability, optimal performance, and all the compatibility in the world is garbage unless the AI can perform.

I (and others) don't really care too much about the graphics, nor the sound, nor the interface, nor all those all things you mentioned, as much as we care about the AI.

They should have diverted more resources to it. I could have done with an uglier game (similar to HOI3 or Vic2) but with a great AI.

All the extras (production system, focus trees, etc) are nice, but what use is it if the game has zero challenge?

 

[Quintus of Mund]

Poor ai is one thing. No ai is another. In my thread, ai is missing in 1.1.0. Missing.

It went thought the job of declaring wars, but no troops movement. None at all from both sides...

However all other things-- That does however sound like a real bug! You should flag it in the Bug Report sub forum.

 

[safe-keeper]

I do freely admit I'm having fun with it, and it will be great with patches and even greater with DLCs. There are lots of great innovations like battle plans and how amphibious invasions need to be prepared and require naval superiority. I'm exploring alternate history approaches as Germany in my current playthrough and it's hugely interesting. I think that with time, it'll be a great classic.

But... it needs work.
It's way too easy at the moment, for one thing, and too many strange features ike division spam. AI needs work, of course. UI could use improvement, too. Research feels a bit too simplistic, and while I don't think I want a return of the HOI3 sliders, it would be nice if I could somehow distribute resources to focus on science, intel, diplomatic efforts, and so on.

Then there are other people who dislike it because it's too different from HOI3. I get that, too.

 

[xsmilingbanditx]

I don't excuse the AI. I said it's gonna be worked on and it will.
I do sometimes have to talk to customers if there seems to be a difficult problem and depending on how it escalated. I have no issues talking about problems in a reasonable manner. But if the customer gets angry and shouts out, I tell him to call back when he calmed down and cancel the call. And this is Business Software! I am there to help and I will help, but I'm not there to let of steam.
It's the same here on the forums. People just don't behave anymore and think because they spent 50 Bucks they're now the most important single snowflake in the universe and so is their problem. And thus forget all manners they once should have learned.
Nobody denies the existence of said problems and nobody says they won't be solved. But how you adress people is very important. Because if it's easy you would've done it yourself, right?
The Devs aren't incompetent, ignorant or dumb. They do this for a living and thus I assume they know what they're doing. If something doesn't turn out to work like intended it'll be fixed. It's Software alright, not the spaceshuttle.
Also, a great factor to not be forgotten is not to screw up the 99,99% of people that don't seem to have an issue.

 

[Quintus of Mund]

I do freely admit I'm having fun with it, and it will be great with patches and even greater with DLCs. There are lots of great innovations like battle plans and how amphibious invasions need to be prepared and require naval superiority. I'm exploring alternate history approaches as Germany in my current playthrough and it's hugely interesting. I think that with time, it'll be a great classic.

But... it needs work.
It's way too easy at the moment, for one thing, and too many strange features ike division spam. AI needs work, of course. UI could use improvement, too. Research feels a bit too simplistic, and while I don't think I want a return of the HOI3 sliders, it would be nice if I could somehow distribute resources to focus on science, intel, diplomatic efforts, and so on.

Then there are other people who dislike it because it's too different from HOI3. I get that, too.

I agree with you the game is great. But in a sense, it is sad knowing all the potential hidden, and the fact we are not there yet!

So -- the basics are brilliant. But know that those are under control, I want & need more.

And to the point on HoI3: well, yes, HoI4 is a different game.

 

[mathers]

Honestly...I know there are issues (WT being one of them and the main one for me).
But I had so many fun games. For example when I played Germany and took Poland and Netherlands early, but feared all the time Poland or Netherlands would join the Allies because Chinese war started early and nationalist spain suddenly wiped the floor with the Republicans.
And when I demanded the Czechs, France denied and started their Entente while GB wanted to give in so they split up. Now I have to do I naval invasion (!) to get France because GB went on a guarantee spree for Belgium ans Swiss...
And all this delays me hard from taking the USSR or building a proper airforce for GB.
It may be ahistorical but a hell lot of fun and you got to think off your fleet to adapt. Splitting your resources and planning strategically ahead for the different needs...that's really cool imho and works very well.

I know, this is my opinion. But honestly, the game does not deserve the hate some (albeit Vokal minority) utter in the forum.

Edit: Typ0rs due to Smartphone

You listed the very reason I dislike it. A wwii game without wwii.... Furthermore the fact that you managed to pull that off is unfeasible. If you add lack of messages, lack of notification what is going on.... Air war micromanafing hell. All those ctrl shift combos... the dumb ai... And arrogancy of developers. And cheat that happened on FM presales. They announced after buying FM they do not even care for us. On steam they advertised wwii game you know from hoi franchise. Not a full reboot.... I still want my money back

 

[cl1xor]

I don't excuse the AI. I said it's gonna be worked on and it will.
I do sometimes have to talk to customers if there seems to be a difficult problem and depending on how it escalated. I have no issues talking about problems in a reasonable manner. But if the customer gets angry and shouts out, I tell him to call back when he calmed down and cancel the call. And this is Business Software! I am there to help and I will help, but I'm not there to let of steam.
It's the same here on the forums. People just don't behave anymore and think because they spent 50 Bucks they're now the most important single snowflake in the universe and so is their problem. And thus forget all manners they once should have learned.
Nobody denies the existence of said problems and nobody says they won't be solved. But how you adress people is very important. Because if it's easy you would've done it yourself, right?
The Devs aren't incompetent, ignorant or dumb. They do this for a living and thus I assume they know what they're doing. If something doesn't turn out to work like intended it'll be fixed. It's Software alright, not the spaceshuttle.
Also, a great factor to not be forgotten is not to screw up the 99,99% of people that don't seem to have an issue.

I think the tone of voice is in most cases quite respectful, and a lot of people are investing time into either analyzing what's wrong and/or providing constructive (possible) solutions.

 

[xsmilingbanditx]

You listed the very reason I dislike it. A wwii game without wwii.... Furthermore the fact that you managed to pull that off is unfeasible. If you add lack of messages, lack of notification what is going on.... Air war micromanafing hell. All those ctrl shift combos... the dumb ai... And arrogancy of developers. And cheat that happened on FM presales. They announced after buying FM they do not even care for us. On steam they advertised wwii game you know....

Why shouldn't you be able to pull that off? It may not be historical. But after I did that, France drew als line when I wanted to expand further. So did britain with the guarantees. It's ok imho and keeps the game interesting and not railroaded.
There are enough Messges like naval battles and Invasions and I- personal opinion - don't think air war is micro Management hell. It's good where it is...

 

[Antless]

Because never in a million years should the British just pick up and leave their home undefended for a handful of German paratroopers to conquer. It is absolutely insane that nobody ever bothered to address this before the game was pushed out, what point does a WWII game have if you have to intentionally not make plans to make the war last longer than three months?

I can almost understand Germany being somewhat braindead, but Britain? The don't have to do shit except sit on their VPs, and defend the coast. That cannot possibly be so difficult to code can it be?

 

[xsmilingbanditx]

I think the tone of voice is in most cases quite respectful, and a lot of people are investing time into either analyzing what's wrong and/or providing constructive (possible) solutions.

Then we either read different posts or I just read them incorrectly

 

[safe-keeper]

I agree with you the game is great. But in a sense, it is sad knowing all the potential hidden, and the fact we are not there yet!

So -- the basics are brilliant. But know that those are under control, I want & need more.

And to the point on HoI3: well, yes, HoI4 is a different game.

Yeah, it's frustrating, particlarly when it took so incredibly long to make. I was sure it was going to be far more polished than this. At least it's very, very stable, hasn't crashed on me once in 40+ hours. That's more than you can say about HOI3 .

But yes, it's going to be great one day. We just have to endure a cluttered map, imbalances, lack of challenge (my biggest gripe), and a UI that needs some quality of life improvements.

I actually don't care too much about the lack of a historical WWII, as I actually find it surprisnigly fun to try out ahistorical routes. Possibly it's because we couldn't do that in HOI3 without pretty much breaking the AI. Oh, and because I know BlackICE and other mods will provide that experience for me in time .

You listed the very reason I dislike it. A wwii game without wwii.... Furthermore the fact that you managed to pull that off is unfeasible. If you add lack of messages, lack of notification what is going on.... Air war micromanafing hell. All those ctrl shift combos... the dumb ai... And arrogancy of developers. And cheat that happened on FM presales. They announced after buying FM they do not even care for us. On steam they advertised wwii game you know from hoi franchise. Not a full reboot.... I still want my money back

lays world's smallest violin:

Yes, HOI4 has issues, but seriously, you didn't notice all the dev diaries, live streams, forum discussions, and let's plays that clearly and accurately showcased what the game was going to be like? What exactly were they lying about in your opinion?
Don't know what this cheat in the FM pre-sale that you're talking about was, so can't comment on that.

 

[xsmilingbanditx]

In fact, you don't need a single line of AI Code for that. Place units there and be done with it. But you want the AI to act (preferably) or react according to the Situation. Support the french? Stop the Germans in Africa? Protect the Benelux? When to intervene? What about Russia? Shall the whole Coast be defended? How to split the units and where to send them?
Those considerations may seem trivial, but they aren't really easy for a human. Even more so for a CPU...planning ahead isn't really CPUs thing...

 

[Antless]

In fact, you don't need a single line of AI Code for that. Place units there and be done with it. But you want the AI to act (preferably) or react according to the Situation. Support the french? Stop the Germans in Africa? Protect the Benelux? When to intervene? What about Russia? Shall the whole Coast be defended? How to split the units and where to send them?
Those considerations may seem trivial, but they aren't really easy for a human. Even more so for a CPU...planning ahead isn't really CPUs thing...

The British Isles are very vulnerable. Their value to the war efford is absolute. We are not talking about the player running circles around the AI, either. Making excuses will not make the game any better.