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it is true that while I have outlined the variants of the Qabila, I haven't got very deep in explaining their internal workings.
The concept is here and needs to be put down, though I must admit that I haven't thought it out in terms of actual laws as they work now - (they should basically be tribal, but there could be some special Asabiya laws, imposed by the leader). It will take me some time to put it all down.

Anyway, to tell at least something, the inter-qabila relations should work as something halfway between the horde and the catholic church - the various clans should be tied to their qabila, but could be vasalized by somebody else in political terms.
What is so islandish about it
It is between the rivers. Anyway, it's actually a name with few centuries old history. Do we need to explain it?
 
Just wanted to chime in, I haven't read all of your entries yet, but I have to say that reading this is absolutely fascinating. I do hope some of the moderators/devs see your posts because it could very well inspire them!

If nothing comes of this, be glad that I have learned so many new things from your entries. I had never heard of Ibn Battuta before, even just flicking through his wiki page is astounding. Keep on pumping out these ideas because this is good stuff to read and discover!
 
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I'm wondering about how these new desert mechanic would affect the Christians of Nubia? They are currently tribal, but giving them new mechanics would be appreciated.
 
@Ybakgibumpti @anomanderus thanks both of you for supportive words.
I'm wondering about how these new desert mechanic would affect the Christians of Nubia? They are currently tribal, but giving them new mechanics would be appreciated.
Aren't they feudal? I mean the christians inside Nubia propper. As for the tribal Beja peoples, they should be affected too. The Beja were indeed one of the peoples mentioned as the typical qabila community.
@elvain: I quite like your ideas, but I am curious how would this affect areas that are in the periphery, such as India or West Africa?
India could profit from the mulk government aswell and the employment of ghulams. West Africa should receive a trade route and if the map changes are implemented, than also more playable scenario as well as more realistic and interesting neighbours... events based on the trade route and lastly I also plan to introduce enhancement of islam which could help West Africa too.
And lastly, this kind of DLC could also bring some special features for WestAfricans

It's fine, it's just a bit confusing when they also called Arabia Al-Jazeera.
I think you are misunderstanding things.
that is Al-Jazeera al-Arab, the Arab island, meaning peninsula. Jazeera is area surrounded by water and that water could also mean rivers.
And the region of north Mesopotamia, known also as Assyria, is called al-Jazeera for centuries. Just like we use Mesopotamia for the one exact area though Greeks have also used it for other regions between rivers.
 
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Elvain, this is somewhat off topic, but do you know how it was Islam come to be dominant in Indonesia? Was that in CK2's time frame, or more EU4?
 
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These are wonderful suggestions.
 
Just wanted to post and say that I really like your DLC idea and I really hope Paradox takes a look at this thread and at least considers the possibility of doing something like this.
 
@SnowHawkKiller, @Atlantians thanks for your words of support.

Elvain, this is somewhat off topic, but do you know how it was Islam come to be dominant in Indonesia? Was that in CK2's time frame, or more EU4?
I must admit that Indonesia is bit away from my sphere of interest, but according to Wiki, the first contacts were already in 8th century. The islamization, however hasn't started before the late 13th century, with considerable gains in the 14th and 15th century, so at the very end of CK2 timeline.

Wiki said:
There is evidence of Arab Muslim traders entering Indonesia as early as the 8th century.[7] Indonesia's historical inhabitants were animists, Hindus and Buddhists.[8] However it was not until the end of the 13th century that the spread of Islam began.[7]

The spread, although at first introduced through Arab Muslim traders, continued to saturate through the Indonesian people as local rulers and royalty began to adopt it, subsequently their subjects would mirror their conversion. The spread of Islam continued as Muslim traders married the local women, with some of the wealthier traders marrying into the families of the ruling elite.[9]

In general, traders and the royalty of major kingdoms were the first to adopt the new religion. By the end of the thirteenth century, Islam had been established in Northern Sumatra; by the fourteenth in northeast Malaya, Brunei, the southwestern Philippines and among some courts of coastal East and Central Java; and the fifteenth in Malacca and other areas of the Malay Peninsula. Dominant kingdoms included Samudra Pasai in northern Sumatra, Demak Sultanate and Mataram in Central Java, and the sultanates of Ternate and Tidore in the Maluku Islands to the east.
 
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Part 4 - the Mulk government

This is a government system which allows slave soldiers and slave governors. It can be one of the most stable governments, especially in the first 2-3 generations, where ties between the ruler and other members of ruling class are stable and based on personal land assignment. As the time passes, the ruler needs to be more cautious and carefully chose his governors from among the slaves, dynasty members and tribal allies. Dynasty/clan or tribe members are the most reliable, but at the same time the most dangerous, as they can claim the throne for themselves. Slaves are also very faithfull, especially if freed, but if they have children, they may want to seize the power for themselves and establish their own slave dynasties. Lastly the Qabila members are not the most reliable allies and may be seen as the weakest side of the government. However, if the Qabila's Asabiya is held high enough, they can be used as very strong force to opose potentially rebelling dynasty members or slave armies/governors if they grow too strong. On the other hand the Qabila can represent a big threat if is being ignored and if the Asabiya is not being cared of, it can result in massive revolt led by other tribes, which may overthrow the ruling dynasty/tribe (Abbasids vs. Umayyads).

This system is meant to represent the islamic empire of the Abbbasids as well as most of “Western” muslim states, such as Tulunids, Fatimids or Aghlabids, but also the East Iranian states such as Samanids or Tahirids.

The difference between the Arab and Persian states among these is the institution of the Qabila – while the Arabs can use it, the settled Persians can't, and they can only use dynasty and slaves to balance each other. In history they usually failed and were overrun by increasing power of slave governors establishing their own dynasties.

Land assignment
This government uses imperial administration where the land is given to viceroys or 2 groups of relatives. The groups, which may become governors are following:
  • Dynasty members (if land is granted to the same dynasty member, it increases Asabiya of the dynasty and thus also improves the Qabila's Asabiya)
  • Qabila members – members of other tribes within the same Qabila confederation (it increases prestige of the ruler and the Qabila's Asabiya, as well as it improves relations between the two tribes (Ashiras)
  • Slaves or freed slaves – for titles at duke level and higher, the character needs to be released slave (he can possibly rule over other nobles or tribe/dynasty members and it can not be slave) – this gives the player Asabiya malus
This is a basic difference between Mulk and Iqta government systems. While in Iqta the land can be assigned to any noble or slave, in Mulk, it is limited only to members of the Qabila and Slaves. In case of cultures which don't support the Qabila system (Persians), the dynasty has to rely on its own members and slaves.

Army of the Mulk
A mulk government allow wide scale of armies to be fielded. These are:
  • personal levies of the ruler – troops levied from personal holdings of the ruler – are directly controlled.
  • Levies of landed vasals – they are all raised together when vasal levies are raised. It, however, depends on who is the vasal. If he is a member of the same clan, a slave governor, or is a lower vasal (baron, city mayor), the army is controlled directly, just like other vasal levies in game. But if the vasal is a member of another clan, the army acts independently as allied force, despite being levied together with vasals (no need to call these as allies, like in the case of tribal armies – see below).
  • Tribal army of ruler's clan (Ashira) – standing army of the Ashira (works the same as retinues/horde) – also this is directly controlled by the ruler.
  • Tribal army of other clans (Ashiras) within the same Qabila – standing army of other Ashiras. They can only be raised if Qabila's Asabiya is high enough and they are called into war as allies based on Qabila mechanics. On the field they act like independent allied units.
  • Slave army/armies – The slave companies – standing armies employed by the ruler (see Slave companies).
Mercenaries are not allowed, instead of them there are the Slave companies.

Laws and taxes
The above described system is allowed and enforced by the fact, that the land administration strongly prefers taxes over military levies. Among all groups of land owners all obligations which prefer levies over taxes are locked. The farthest one can get is the balance between the two.

This gives the rulers enough money for standing (slave) armies, but also gives him smaller levies.

Vasal obligations are divided into: Burgher (cities), Ashira (own clan), Ghulam (slave) and Qabila vasals (qabila governors, not the Qabila tribal armies who are not vasals)

As described above, the ruler can also invoke the tibal Asabiya and call the Qabila's tribal army – this is excluded from these obligations and is subject to Qabila settings. The Qabila pays no taxes whatsoever (never ever), it only provides military help.


more to come:
the role of Islam in the Qabila DLC, the religious orders - the Almoravids, Almohads and Qarmatians (the system could also - in modified version - be used for monastic orders in the christian world.)
 
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Wow, I really really like your ideas Elvan - so much that you made me post on these forums for the first time! :) I'm really impressed on how you've managed to make so interesting and engaging game mechanics out of historical phenomena, they really represent the systems and traditions well! I would buy a DLC with those features in a heartbeat!

If Paradox doesn't pick up on this great idea, could it be modded in? The CK2+ and HIP guys are really talented, maybe they could incorporate this in their mods? I don't have any knowledge on what can be modded, but those guys have done some impressive things. Then again, probably not?

Anyways, just wanted to add a supportive voice for you and again - great work!
 
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Wow, I really really like your ideas Elvan - so much that you made me post on these forums for the first time! :) I'm really impressed on how you've managed to make so interesting and engaging game mechanics out of historical phenomena, they really represent the systems and traditions well! I would buy a DLC with those features in a heartbeat!

Anyways, just wanted to add a supportive voice for you and again - great work!
Thanks. Great honor for me. It's almost binding to be a subject of these compliments :)

If Paradox doesn't pick up on this great idea, could it be modded in? The CK2+ and HIP guys are really talented, maybe they could incorporate this in their mods? I don't have any knowledge on what can be modded, but those guys have done some impressive things. Then again, probably not?
I'm doing my best to give Paradox as detailed and worked out system (even the already written parts will be overhauled to be easier to understand and complete), so they would only need to write the code.. They know I'm entirely ready to give them another hints if they're interested...

OTOH, I can't expect much, they may have completely different plans which we can't change.

As for the possibility of this appearing in a mod, few probably know that as long as my time capabilities enabled it, I was a member of HIP modding team and I have indeed suggested some of these things there, but never as detailed and comperhensive as now, and actually both teams' developers know about this and we are in contact.
 
Thanks. Great honor for me. It's almost binding to be a subject of these compliments :)


I'm doing my best to give Paradox as detailed and worked out system (even the already written parts will be overhauled to be easier to understand and complete), so they would only need to write the code.. They know I'm entirely ready to give them another hints if they're interested...

OTOH, I can't expect much, they may have completely different plans which we can't change.

As for the possibility of this appearing in a mod, few probably know that as long as my time capabilities enabled it, I was a member of HIP modding team and I have indeed suggested some of these things there, but never as detailed and comperhensive as now, and actually both teams' developers know about this and we are in contact.

I've been reading the Muqaddimah, myself, and I really like what you're proposing here. It would add a great deal of depth to the Muslim side of the game, and would definitely make me want to play as those dynasties more. Nice work!
 
I've been reading the Muqaddimah, myself, and I really like what you're proposing here. It would add a great deal of depth to the Muslim side of the game, and would definitely make me want to play as those dynasties more. Nice work!
Thanks, I'm reading it again and I must say the book is really amazing and it is pity that the devs only took Decadence out of it.

PS: First post edited with better description of what could be in this DLC concept, including few mechanics usable for Christians as well (Madrasas, which could be modified into Universities; and Religious orders usable for Almoravids, Almohads, but also Monastic and Knightly orders).
 
So far the ideas were only in texts, but I know I owe you some graphical representation of these ideas, so here are some examples:

The Qabila:
ANMCNom.png

Here is an example of one rather large Qabila, which consists of 8 clans - Ashiras.
The one with highest Asabiya is the leading Ashira and bears kingdom title.. then there are 6 duchy level Ashiras and lastly one Ashira which has conquered a kingdom, settled and converted to the Mulk government.
The Ashiras can be independent, vasals of the k_Qabila or even of some settled kingdom.
You can see that they are very similar to nomadic hordes, but there is one different value - the percents indicate the strength of each clan's/Ashira's Asabiya.. and there is also a value of the Qabila's Asabiya in the upper side of the screen.

And then there is another overview which displays the military overview:
HKZwHOw.png


The Ghulams are at the place of Mercenaries.
The crucial factor is of course opinion. Then you can see cost of the company - that's the initial price to hire the company. The other gold value indicates the price needed to reinforce the company and to buy more soldiers (the overlord can do it, but also the captain can buy himself new soldiers if he has enough money).
 
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