Don't feel bad elvain. Bar some monstrous calamity, Crusader Kings 3 will be released within the decade and a rework of the field developed by the first ever CK2 expansion is highly likely to be at or very near the top of priorities.
You know the ideas outlined here are mostly beyond modability, so they can't be modded in and they need either the game to become far more moddable, or be a DLC content.How about the devs hold a contest for the best mods along the vein of OPs to make into DLC?
I'd pay for this ****.
Then again, I'd also rather NOT have to pay for it.
The dilemma of pay-for-mods.
No worries, I don't feel badDon't feel bad elvain. Bar some monstrous calamity, Crusader Kings 3 will be released within the decade and a rework of the field developed by the first ever CK2 expansion is highly likely to be at or very near the top of priorities.
so maybe with the new development around China and possible more DLCs this might be a posibility for further development?
From your original one line it wasn't very clear against what this rant was intended (sorry to call it rant, but the unedited message didn't look like anything else). Frankly I actually understood it that you consider all this effort as something like China.China would be more provinces and more excuses for less in-game interactions and characters instead of more actual depth to the game.
Instead of reddit-down-voting me why don't you think critically for ten seconds? India has added so little it feels like its a separate game's map crudely clamped onto a game about Medieval Crusades and interactions between the West and East Abrahamic religions. Pagans were icing on the cake to me.
I would rather them devout all their time and energy to making a proper Imperial System like Elvain has said. Rather then wasting time trying to pad China out more. Adding to the map and religions to me seems like widening the game not actually adding depth that this game needs so bad and is lacking in without tons of mods. Still after all these years Prince and the Thane has more backbone.
China would be more provinces and more excuses for less in-game interactions and characters instead of more actual depth to the game.
Instead of reddit-down-voting me why don't you think critically for ten seconds? India has added so little it feels like its a separate game's map crudely clamped onto a game about Medieval Crusades and interactions between the West and East Abrahamic religions. Pagans were icing on the cake to me.
I would rather them devout all their time and energy to making a proper Imperial System like Elvain has said. Rather then wasting time trying to pad China out more. Adding to the map and religions to me seems like widening the game not actually adding depth that this game needs so bad and is lacking in without tons of mods. Still after all these years Prince and the Thane has more backbone.
This. Hell, the reason I'm reading this thread is to see how awesome adding depth to CK2 would be.I'm fine with the China DLC if anything because it will add cool and new modding capabilities, but it is true that CK2 is in need for more depth. What is the purpose of so many characters if playing a bengali ruler is almost the same as a saxon one, half a world away? There's such a wealth of possible flavour and mechanics that could make the pre-ROI map so much more diverse and yet all of that potential remains untapped.
Sumbro also summarises why I, along with quite a bit of the CK2 population in general I think, tend to play modded to hell games over vanilla...
Yup, that is exactly, that is the biggest downfall of the current stage of the game: The difference in playing various characters is very shallow. However, there are some interesting things. I think that the Republic did add some different experience and so does the Horde - they both need player to take different perspective and adjust his goals and gameplay. Some pagans have also received interesting features... and the internal gameplay was also nicely enhanced by the latest DLCs. Compared to them the first two DLCs (Sword of Islam and Legacy of Rome) are very shallow and don't add much diversity, despite SoI opens up a large world which is very different from what could European feudal lord expetience.I'm fine with the China DLC if anything because it will add cool and new modding capabilities, but it is true that CK2 is in need for more depth. What is the purpose of so many characters if playing a bengali ruler is almost the same as a saxon one, half a world away? There's such a wealth of possible flavour and mechanics that could make the pre-ROI map so much more diverse and yet all of that potential remains untapped.
Thanks for the complimentThis. Hell, the reason I'm reading this thread is to see how awesome adding depth to CK2 would be.
The only downside of mods is that they can't change core mechanics and Islam would really need at least the possibility to somehow mess around with decadence and Tribalism. Perhaps @Meneth or @Divine might help in case that none of this wouldn't make it into a DLC?Yeah, many of the bigger mods change not only the setting but also the dynamics of the game. Hopefully once the Paradox team finishes CK2's development modders can really get their hands on all the interesting concepts and functionalities that could be implemented without the burden of constant (but welcome) updates.
I have to admit their route they went with China has impressed me although. As someone completely apathetic towards the whole matter (although one who likes new toys either way) them making China in a way which won't make my already-overtaxed CK2 engine melt even more while still making China a very real factor in the game is dang awesome to me. I'd not even considered them going down that route or that it could be a thing prior to reading the dev diary which introduced it, which had me going "Huh. That is AWESOME."The logic behind width vs. depth is a complete non sequitur because what people consider to be depth or width can be completely different. Paradox tried to add depth with Conclave and got slammed for it. Paradox is trying to accommodate those who don't and do want China with the next semi-China DLC, and they'll probably get slammed for it again.
I don't mean to discourage you, here. You've obviously put a lot of thought into these issues. Perhaps too much thought. However, it's highly unlikely that they're going to rework Islam at this stage.so maybe with the new development around China and possible more DLCs this might be a posibility for further development?
First of all, no need to worry. I'm very well aware that there are many things that deserve or even require devs attention before the game is left for good (for CK3). Just as you think they should prefer something else, I believe they could do this and I'm trying to make it as easy for them as possible... and show that doing this stuff will allow them to target and developed also other aspects of game, some of which are on long-term community wishlist.I don't mean to discourage you, here. You've obviously put a lot of thought into these issues. Perhaps too much thought. However, it's highly unlikely that they're going to rework Islam at this stage.
The fact is that Paradox Interactive is a business and it has to operate under the rules that govern businesses in Sweden. Sword of Islam advertises explicit features like the decadence mechanic and other things that might not have met your expectations. Paradox might find themselves in a difficult position, legally or otherwise if they were to begin the practice of publicly advertising things and then taking those things away after they've received money from consumers. Try to give them a break because for them, any decision like this could have consequences. It is perhaps best to accept that as far as Sword of Islam goes, what's done is done.
Also, consider that developers are human beings who are limited, at most, to having two hands. Having them rework Islam (with no guarantee that they would satisfy you on the second try, anyway) prevents them from working on anything else. That's a limitation of our species, in general. There are a lot of things that could be reworked in CK2 and honestly, if there's only one big expansion left after the Chinese one, I'd rather see them work on others things that have been neglected since launch.
Again, not saying any of this to discourage you. You certainly made a lot of well-written points. I just think that maybe it's more practical to ask for these things in Crusader Kings III. From their own mouths, the developers believe that it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks and they consider CK2 to be an old dog at this point. It is a little naive to seriously put your faith into them turning any part of the game upside-down and inside-out at this point in the game's life. Don't set yourself up for further disappointment.