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Brainstorm: invent NIs for last nations with Generic Ideas!

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ultrarobprime said:
Hey Wiz, you better implement those Moroccan NI.
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Agreed.
A Islamic colonizer sounds badass. Would actually play them.
Portuguese and Spanish need more competition.
Speaking of Portugal,it would force them to make a actual tough decision: leave them alone for peace, or lose it's Spain check.
Morocco gets eaten by iberia so much it's not funny.
They really do need all the help they can get.
Also would welcome another possible western European ally.
added bonus:
WC people would have to worry about yet another colonizer.
crajzen, i hope your ideas get used by the devs big time.
 
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Do the Semien traditions make any sense at all?

I don't recall them mass converting people to Judaism, beating back the Islamic faith while they were at it.

Or maybe they did?

And why are some ideas so strong when compared to the rest of their set?
 
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The Semien traditions and ideas, as it says here, are designed to be strong because they are unique nation in a very weak position, so they are a "reward" for being succesful with them.

That aside, in page 6 wolf_brother made ideas for the post-colonial nations (colombia, haiti, etc.) will those be included in the mod?
 
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Red John said:
Do the Semien traditions make any sense at all?

I don't recall them mass converting people to Judaism, beating back the Islamic faith while they were at it.

Or maybe they did?

And why are some ideas so strong when compared to the rest of their set?
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Of course they didn't mass convert people to Judaism but without this bonus they are totally screwed as not even the only country but the only PROVINCE in the world with Judaism :D however there are many cases of gameplay > realism in NIs made by Paradox - Byzantium also gets +3% missionary strenght and by 1444 it wasn't converting anyone over last... centuries? But it has a bonus to enable Byzantophiles on reconverting former Roman empire to Orthodox faith :p

Semien is in much worse situation - as I said, it's extreme, a single lonely Jewish province. It needs stuff like this or it would be forced to convert (...idiotic) or stack humanist ideas and tolerance bonuses beyond plausibility.

And 'some ideas in a set are stronger than others' is also inherited from Paradoxian official NI sets where you have things like Ottoman -33% coring cost (super insanely powerful bonus incomparable with any else coring discount) next to -10% to cost of reducing war exhaustion which is total crap etc.
 
I see no valid reason as to why, due to it's starting position, it's national ideas should be powerful.

Your example in the Byzantines fails when you realise that orthodoxy was and is a very large faith. Judaism, if I recall, did not reach anywhere near orthodoxy in terms of those who follow it.
 
The valid reason is 'Semien reconquering all the way to Jerusalem and painting it with Jewish faith would be awesome' and 'Semien is totallly screwed religiously due to being only Jewish province so I give it an option to convert others'. I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against tyranny of realism over gameplay :p

Besides, Semien is surrounded by religions having ''-2% enemy missionary strength'' so without bonus it's optimal option would be converting to Coptic/Sunni which would be horrible!

If the game was supposed to reflect 'historical starting position of nations' then Byzantium should have Morea and Achaea only as vassals, autonomy in its own capital and national ideas at this point giving penalties due to total decadence; Aztecs shouldn't have same infantry combat quality bonus as Switzerland; African nations shouldn't have economic bonus percentages on par with Italian states; player should get his Precolombian empire totally annihilated by smallpox unable to do anything against it; North American natives should be almost unplayable due to too low population base (Iroquis Confederacy historical population - 20 to 50 000. Eu4 Iroquis - I created empire size of USA); Commonwealth should get noble unrest or rebellion every time it tries to recruit any army, Sweden be totally screwed due to it historically having smaller economic power than Italian city states etc.

The problem is, it wouldn't be fun.
 
Krajzen said:
The valid reason is 'Semien reconquering all the way to Jerusalem and painting it with Jewish faith would be awesome' and 'Semien is totallly screwed religiously due to being only Jewish province so I give it an option to convert others'. I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against tyranny of realism over gameplay :p

Besides, Semien is surrounded by religions having ''-2% enemy missionary strength'' so without bonus it's optimal option would be converting to Coptic/Sunni which would be horrible!

If the game was supposed to reflect 'historical starting position of nations' then Byzantium should have Morea and Achaea only as vassals, autonomy in its own capital and national ideas at this point giving penalties due to total decadence; Aztecs shouldn't have same infantry combat quality bonus as Switzerland; African nations shouldn't have economic bonus percentages on par with Italian states; player should get his Precolombian empire totally annihilated by smallpox unable to do anything against it; North American natives should be almost unplayable due to too low population base (Iroquis Confederacy historical population - 20 to 50 000. Eu4 Iroquis - I created empire size of USA); Commonwealth should get noble unrest or rebellion every time it tries to recruit any army, Sweden be totally screwed due to it historically having smaller economic power than Italian city states etc.

The problem is, it wouldn't be fun.
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All of that is irrelevant.

My original point is that it makes no sense. There are ways to get past the religious strength penalties inherent in Sunni provinces - through religious ideas, or even Humanist ideas.

Instead, you give them a random 3% Missionary strength that, when compounded with said religious ideas, allows this random Jewish state to convert the entirety of the Middle East to Judaism.
 
Krajzen said:
Making sense is irrelevant :D
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If you don't wish for your national ideas to make any sort of sense then don't bother citing justification for some national ideas while having absolutely no justification for this.
 
Red John said:
If you don't wish for your national ideas to make any sort of sense then don't bother citing justification for some national ideas while having absolutely no justification for this.
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Meh, I wish for national ideas to have some sort of sense as long as it isn't uncool. Then I give them laser starships and invent random justification. In the video game I want my Beta Israeli Jews to kick asses and paint world in Judaism, not sit in a mountain single province for few centuries like it happened historically (and was dictated by demographic and cultural reasons).
 
Krajzen said:
Meh, I wish for national ideas to have some sort of sense as long as it isn't uncool. Then I give them laser starships and invent random justification.
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I don't understand this statement, nor will I attempt to.

It is your idea list, of course, but Paradox will likely never implement ideas which cannot be justified. Maybe. Not entirely sure.
 
Maybe I would react differently if not the case of Byzantium fanservice (move start date to 1444 to make them alive, DLC, bonuses) and their ancient Roman legacy cool stuff'n restoration of Roman Empire, done by a rotting corpse of single city, degenerated bureaucratic remnant of 1204 slaughter. Wiz once said plain open that Byzantium at 1444 is totally unrealistic and is done this way only to be playable, not frustrating.
 
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Krajzen said:
Maybe I would react differently if not the case of Byzantium fanservice (move start date to 1444 to make them alive, DLC, bonuses) and their ancient Roman legacy cool stuff'n restoration of Roman Empire, done by a rotting corpse of single city, degenerated bureaucratic remnant of 1204 slaughter. Wiz once said plain open that Byzantium at 1444 is totally unrealistic and is done this way only to be playable, not frustrating.
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Once again, I fail to see how this is relevant to a discussion about Semien's ideas.

Unless you are questioning the validity of Byzantium's ideas?
 
Red John said:
Once again, I fail to see how this is relevant to a discussion about Semien's ideas.

Unless you are questioning the validity of Byzantium's ideas?
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The point is that, seeing as Byzantium has ridiculously powerful and a-historic ideas for no reason other than to make a challenging start more interesting to play, why not do the same with Semien (who are an even more challenging, unique and interesting nation)?
 
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The mod is alive. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=418909610

Now I have to do three last things:
- Update Original Post of this thread with list of NI modifiers (without descriptions because the post is too long for forum standards)
- Provide code for paradox in Suggestions
- Create mod thread in /mods where I will publish full list of NI modifiers AND historical descriptions.
 
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...okay, I have updated the main post and provided code containing idea bonuses and descriptions for all 72 new groups. However I have yet to write down all idea sets in ergonomic nice - to - read way on forum and I don't think I'll manage to do this today.
 
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