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Ch29 Q1. Lunacy Effects – not so bad? More a comment and follow-on from the previous question. Just interesting to note that for a ruling PC, lunacy doesn’t seem too much of an impediment. Looking at Vsemil’s opinion of Rurik, the latter’s being a lunatic is (literally) the least of his problems! Being a foreigner has significantly more malus, while many of the other negative factors are far worse than that.
Lunacy is not a problem until it starts to cause prestige drop for the vassals. After all the idea is that in the privacy of his castle the king is going mad, and the vassals only get second hand word of what he is doing (or at least that was my interpretation). I am pretty sure some events however can make their relation with you worse.
Ch29 Q2: Improved relations – Stackable? If I knew earlier I’ve now forgotten: is the ‘Improved Relations’ modifier from the Chancellor’s mission stackable with itself? Of is a continued influence attempt a waste of time once it’s in force? I’ve moved Hrörekr on anyway, but it would be useful to know/remember.
Yes, if you leave it there you have a chance to get one improved relation event after another. Of course, you could also risk of getting on ruined relation event after another, that's the beauty and curse of RNG
Ch29 Q3. Raiding – Prior Defeat Looting Restriction. I didn’t find this advice on the Wiki but managed to track it down by some digging around in a few Googled searches. Some similarly baffled neophytes explained their predicament and it was explained that there is a five-year prohibition on collecting any loot when raiding a realm where a previous raid had been defeated. You can sit there all you like, but you won’t get any gold. It seems I have confirmed this by trial and error. If anyone knows any more or different, advice as always appreciated. But for now, it looks like I have once again lived and learned. If any others gain benefit from this, then it is Sverker’s little gift to you! Of course, I only found this out after a couple of months pointlessly waiting for something to happen in Corse. The God (as is his prerogative) was wise after the fact with that earlier invocation.
Ch29 Q4: Murder Most Sweet? This has not yet been acted upon. There would – as far as I’m aware – be no particular game benefit to Rurik from doing this. And there could be a counter-measure, I suppose. And the guy is already 58 and a drunkard, so could logically be left to die naturally. But there would be some narrative enjoyment here. And Rurik is mad (with post-traumatic stress and grief at Adalberto’s hands). That part of me would like to exact this revenge on Rurik’s tormentor. And it would be good murder practice for the learning aspects. Any views, considerations? The plot power looks low-middling (38%). But might others in Florence come aboard? Any other factors or considerations I should be looking for? The key question here: should Alfgeir try to dissuade his king from this possibly reckless action? Or get out the gold and start looking for an assassin?
well you can try but 38% in plot power means that the probability of succeeding are almost non existing. If you want to improve it you can send your spymaster to Florence, but I don't know how much that will help.
I didn't know about the 5 year raid defeat thingy - very useful info!
Yes they can stack, but as @Rufy_King states you run the risk of getting whacked by the negative opinion even multiple times too.
As for lunacy, it is at the mercy of the RNG. But it something that tends to build over time - as the longer one has lunacy the more lunatic events you have with attendant consequences.
As for plot, I think it is a bit unlikely you will ever generate sufficient plot power, but that is no reason not to try! Send the spymaster there, hope she doesn't get caught, and see if others don't start to join.
Ch29 Q1. Lunacy Effects – not so bad? More a comment and follow-on from the previous question. Just interesting to note that for a ruling PC, lunacy doesn’t seem too much of an impediment. Looking at Vsemil’s opinion of Rurik, the latter’s being a lunatic is (literally) the least of his problems! Being a foreigner has significantly more malus, while many of the other negative factors are far worse than that.
You will have some events that decrease your prestige (events like embarassing yourself in front of visitors thinking you are napoleon or whatever) but none that happened to my character in the few years he lived as lunatic really had a big malus on anything. Turns out lunatic rulers are ok after all
Ch29 Q3. Raiding – Prior Defeat Looting Restriction. I didn’t find this advice on the Wiki but managed to track it down by some digging around in a few Googled searches. Some similarly baffled neophytes explained their predicament and it was explained that there is a five-year prohibition on collecting any loot when raiding a realm where a previous raid had been defeated. You can sit there all you like, but you won’t get any gold. It seems I have confirmed this by trial and error. If anyone knows any more or different, advice as always appreciated. But for now, it looks like I have once again lived and learned. If any others gain benefit from this, then it is Sverker’s little gift to you! Of course, I only found this out after a couple of months pointlessly waiting for something to happen in Corse. The God (as is his prerogative) was wise after the fact with that earlier invocation.
Ch29 Q4: Murder Most Sweet? This has not yet been acted upon. There would – as far as I’m aware – be no particular game benefit to Rurik from doing this. And there could be a counter-measure, I suppose. And the guy is already 58 and a drunkard, so could logically be left to die naturally. But there would be some narrative enjoyment here. And Rurik is mad (with post-traumatic stress and grief at Adalberto’s hands). That part of me would like to exact this revenge on Rurik’s tormentor. And it would be good murder practice for the learning aspects. Any views, considerations? The plot power looks low-middling (38%). But might others in Florence come aboard? Any other factors or considerations I should be looking for? The key question here: should Alfgeir try to dissuade his king from this possibly reckless action? Or get out the gold and start looking for an assassin?
it is good to discover how the assasination mechanics work but assasinating such a foe instead of taking it to battle and letting your battle axe (+2) drink the blood of this godless skull and sending his wretched soul to whatever the nordic seven hells of torment there is? that does not sound very Rurik to me
it is good to discover how the assasination mechanics work but assasinating such a foe instead of taking it to battle and letting your battle axe (+2) drink the blood of this godless skull and sending his wretched soul to whatever the nordic seven hells of torment there is? that does not sound very Rurik to me
True, but it's the madness talking - and he may need to be talked out of it! But apart from that ... sadly, I don't think he'll ever have the power to do it (especially having failed at it once). And if he did, he'd have juicier and more strategically important targets to use such a force on. Perhaps it will become an intergenerational thing. One day, the Lords of Rus may revenge themselves on the vile hedonists of Florence, in memory of an ancient slight, never forgotten.
True, but it's the madness talking - and he may need to be talked out of it! But apart from that ... sadly, I don't think he'll ever have the power to do it (especially having failed at it once). And if he did, he'd have juicier and more strategically important targets to use such a force on. Perhaps it will become an intergenerational thing. One day, the Lords of Rus may revenge themselves on the vile hedonists of Florence, in memory of an ancient slight, never forgotten.
I am more or less as new to CK2 as you (since i do not write an AAR i had the chance to play densely. my game has hit a very stupid end but that's a different story) but one of the biggest things I learnt about this game is, power is really circumstantial. One very mighty realm who would eat you for breakfast can suddenly become a feast for vultures in a decade. So today might not be the day but if you keep an eye on those damn florentines you might strike at the right time to extinguish their dynasty.
Ch29 Q1. Lunacy Effects – not so bad? More a comment and follow-on from the previous question. Just interesting to note that for a ruling PC, lunacy doesn’t seem too much of an impediment. Looking at Vsemil’s opinion of Rurik, the latter’s being a lunatic is (literally) the least of his problems! Being a foreigner has significantly more malus, while many of the other negative factors are far worse than that.
It's not. Because...well, again, paradox doesn't want people to despise the lunacy trait and rage quit. It garners a small opinion penalty with everyone but not a large one. That's reserved for a dozen or so random events of which you have no option but to accept when they do pop up, which piss off specific vassals within your realm and court. There are also a few that waste money and men, and damage buildings and counties etc. Then there's the famous horse meme one, which replaces a guy on your council semi-permenatly with a horse courtier. Note...the horse isn't necessarily bad at his job, but it annoys off everyone, especially if the guy thrown off the council was a powerful vassal who must be on there.
Ch29 Q2: Improved relations – Stackable? If I knew earlier I’ve now forgotten: is the ‘Improved Relations’ modifier from the Chancellor’s mission stackable with itself? Of is a continued influence attempt a waste of time once it’s in force? I’ve moved Hrörekr on anyway, but it would be useful to know/remember.
I actually don't use the mechanic that often, I use the chancellor for forging claims. The money system is so broken that I never want for cash, so I just bribe people instead.
Ch29 Q3. Raiding – Prior Defeat Looting Restriction. I didn’t find this advice on the Wiki but managed to track it down by some digging around in a few Googled searches. Some similarly baffled neophytes explained their predicament and it was explained that there is a five-year prohibition on collecting any loot when raiding a realm where a previous raid had been defeated. You can sit there all you like, but you won’t get any gold. It seems I have confirmed this by trial and error. If anyone knows any more or different, advice as always appreciated. But for now, it looks like I have once again lived and learned. If any others gain benefit from this, then it is Sverker’s little gift to you! Of course, I only found this out after a couple of months pointlessly waiting for something to happen in Corse. The God (as is his prerogative) was wise after the fact with that earlier invocation.
It's a balance thing again for large empires. Keeping the Roman Empire free of these rodents is hard and annoying enough without having to fight them off every single county. So I found you catch them once, they don't come back.
Ch29 Q4: Murder Most Sweet? This has not yet been acted upon. There would – as far as I’m aware – be no particular game benefit to Rurik from doing this. And there could be a counter-measure, I suppose. And the guy is already 58 and a drunkard, so could logically be left to die naturally. But there would be some narrative enjoyment here. And Rurik is mad (with post-traumatic stress and grief at Adalberto’s hands). That part of me would like to exact this revenge on Rurik’s tormentor. And it would be good murder practice for the learning aspects. Any views, considerations? The plot power looks low-middling (38%). But might others in Florence come aboard? Any other factors or considerations I should be looking for? The key question here: should Alfgeir try to dissuade his king from this possibly reckless action? Or get out the gold and start looking for an assassin?
It's not going to happen, thus he can spend all the gold he likes on the project if he wants. Super stat God Galahad struggled to kill people in other realms until equally super stat spy showed up (called Baron Windsor...) and then I could build spy networks and actually kill people. For you? Not really worth it. Can always give it a go as part of the tutorial though. It's probably too finicky for me to talk you through it though.
The Ninth Thing of Rurik's Reign – January 878 (a summary of advice from Chapter 29)
The Ninth Thing of Rurik's Reign – January 878 (a summary of advice from Chapter 29)
This is the first full Þing held in Holmgarðr in almost two and a half years. And there is much to consider. Hrörekr calls the gathering to order.
Warriors and their sons, among others, gathered in large numbers at Nygarðr for the Þing of 5 January 878 CE.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Ch29 Q1. Lunacy Effects – not so bad?More a comment and follow-on from the previous question. Just interesting to note that for a ruling PC, lunacy doesn’t seem too much of an impediment. Looking at Vsemil’s opinion of Rurik, the latter’s being a lunatic is (literally) the least of his problems! Being a foreigner has significantly more malus, while many of the other negative factors are far worse than that.
Lunacy is not a problem until it starts to cause prestige drop for the vassals. After all the idea is that in the privacy of his castle the king is going mad, and the vassals only get second hand word of what he is doing (or at least that was my interpretation). I am pretty sure some events however can make their relation with you worse.
As for lunacy, it is at the mercy of the RNG. But it something that tends to build over time - as the longer one has lunacy the more lunatic events you have with attendant consequences.
You will have some events that decrease your prestige (events like embarassing yourself in front of visitors thinking you are napoleon or whatever) but none that happened to my character in the few years he lived as lunatic really had a big malus on anything. Turns out lunatic rulers are ok after all
All pretty clear: apart from the small initial malus, for a PC the lunatic trait is really event driven. Probably has more effect on NPC, causing them to take even more random decisions than the AI would normally make (if such is possible)! In-game, that means I’m going to treat Rurik’s condition as comparatively mild and/or periodic, unless events drive him further towards genuine ‘madness’, as it was then defined. And even then, it may have no particularly incapacitating effect. He wouldn’t be the first clinically deranged and highly successful leader in history!
It's not. Because...well, again, paradox doesn't want people to despise the lunacy trait and rage quit. It garners a small opinion penalty with everyone but not a large one. That's reserved for a dozen or so random events of which you have no option but to accept when they do pop up, which piss off specific vassals within your realm and court. There are also a few that waste money and men, and damage buildings and counties etc. Then there's the famous horse meme one, which replaces a guy on your council semi-permenatly with a horse courtier. Note...the horse isn't necessarily bad at his job, but it annoys off everyone, especially if the guy thrown off the council was a powerful vassal who must be on there.
Well, Rurik has the master cavalry commander trait, so you never know … he may be kindly disposed to having Mr Ed as his Chancellor!
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Ch29 Q2: Improved relations – Stackable?If I knew earlier I’ve now forgotten: is the ‘Improved Relations’ modifier from the Chancellor’s mission stackable with itself? Of is a continued influence attempt a waste of time once it’s in force? I’ve moved Hrörekr on anyway, but it would be useful to know/remember.
Yes, if you leave it there you have a chance to get one improved relation event after another. Of course, you could also risk of getting on ruined relation event after another, that's the beauty and curse of RNG
I actually don't use the mechanic that often, I use the chancellor for forging claims. The money system is so broken that I never want for cash, so I just bribe people instead.
All clear – thanks. In this case, I use the mechanic a fair bit given the cultural and religious divide between Rurik and most of his vassals and the fact as a tribal leader now with the Rus ambition, he hasn’t needed to do any claim fabrication.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Ch29 Q3. Raiding – Prior Defeat Looting Restriction.I didn’t find this advice on the Wiki but managed to track it down by some digging around in a few Googled searches. Some similarly baffled neophytes explained their predicament and it was explained that there is a five-year prohibition on collecting any loot when raiding a realm where a previous raid had been defeated. You can sit there all you like, but you won’t get any gold. It seems I have confirmed this by trial and error. If anyone knows any more or different, advice as always appreciated. But for now, it looks like I have once again lived and learned. If any others gain benefit from this, then it is Sverker’s little gift to you!
It's a balance thing again for large empires. Keeping the Roman Empire free of these rodents is hard and annoying enough without having to fight them off every single county. So I found you catch them once, they don't come back.
Agree completely. I think it is a sound mechanic. I just wish Sverker had known about it before he wasted all that time giving his men a rest cure on Corsica! Ya live’n’learn.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Ch29 Q4: Murder Most Sweet?This has not yet been acted upon. There would – as far as I’m aware – be no particular game benefit to Rurik from doing this. And there could be a counter-measure, I suppose. And the guy is already 58 and a drunkard, so could logically be left to die naturally. But there would be some narrative enjoyment here. And Rurik is mad (with post-traumatic stress and grief at Adalberto’s hands). That part of me would like to exact this revenge on Rurik’s tormentor. And it would be good murder practice for the learning aspects. Any views, considerations? The plot power looks low-middling (38%). But might others in Florence come aboard? Any other factors or considerations I should be looking for? The key question here: should Alfgeir try to dissuade his king from this possibly reckless action? Or get out the gold and start looking for an assassin?
well you can try but 38% in plot power means that the probability of succeeding are almost non existing. If you want to improve it you can send your spymaster to Florence, but I don't know how much that will help.
As for plot, I think it is a bit unlikely you will ever generate sufficient plot power, but that is no reason not to try! Send the spymaster there, hope she doesn't get caught, and see if others don't start to join.
it is good to discover how the assasination mechanics work but assasinating such a foe instead of taking it to battle and letting your battle axe (+2) drink the blood of this godless skull and sending his wretched soul to whatever the nordic seven hells of torment there is? that does not sound very Rurik to me
It's not going to happen, thus he can spend all the gold he likes on the project if he wants. Super stat God Galahad struggled to kill people in other realms until equally super stat spy showed up (called Baron Windsor...) and then I could build spy networks and actually kill people. For you? Not really worth it. Can always give it a go as part of the tutorial though. It's probably too finicky for me to talk you through it though.
Again, some clear advice there. Alfgeir will counsel Rurik wisely on this. And, as you will see soon, other things for now loom more important on the King’s immediate event horizon! So much vengeance required, so little time to wreak it!
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
So, the next episode will be up soon. Thanks once again for the comments and support, very much appreciated.
Chapter 30: Who will Raid the Raider? (5 January – 11 August 878)
Chapter 30: Who will Raid the Raider? (5 January – 11 August 878)
Previously, on Blut und Schlacht … Rurik casts a dark and brooding shadow in wintery Nygarðr, hatching plans for revenge on his tormentor, Duke Adalberto of Tuscany; despite that, the year since his … encounter with the knife … had not brought any major breakdowns or episodes – will this last? Vitebskian raiders had been sighted approaching Smaleskja but are believed to only be passing through; the raiding fleet, current sitting off Corsica, had been summoned home.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
January 878
As Rurik waits for the main part of his army to return from Italy – with much needed money, prestige and troops – he asks the Chancellor to provide another report on his next likely target: the High Chiefdom of Tver. And in doing so, he discovers that Hungary’s rapid expansion and large realm have come at a cost: High Chief Zhavoronok is part of an enormous defensive pact against the aptly named King Árpád the Victorious. It appears to have over 30 members! A lesson there perhaps for those who may expand too quickly and aggressively.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
“Make way! I bear an urgent message for the King! Out the way, you cloth-eared oaf!”
The sound of bustle and raised voices comes from outside Rurik’s state chamber, made of dark timbers - which suit his mood. Eventually, a warrior bearing the emblem of the child-Chief Grimr of Smaleskja is allowed in, having had his weapons removed. Especially any sharp knives.
“My Konungr, I come with urgent news from the Regent and a request from our young Chief Grimr.” Rurik nodded at the man for him to continue.
“Those Vitebskian raiders we thought may have been passing by but you asked us to keep an eye on.” Another nod from Rurik. “They weren’t passing by. They have initiated a raid on Smaleskja. Our tribal holding is surrounded, the levy unable to be mustered. Our Chief bids help to drive them off – he is wholly unable to do so himself.”
“Hard news,” responds Rurik – the prospect of some warfare galvanises him from his erstwhile torpor, rather than exacerbates it. He is alert and all business. “In whose name and in what strength?”
“Here, King Rurik, I have brought this report from the Regent.” Helgi is summoned and they consider the information.
“Father, I’m afraid there is little we can do until the fleet returns from Italy,” the Prince-Marshal offers.
“We have not the money to hire mercenaries and this is no war, so a tribal army would not respond – and it would be a waste of your prestige to summon it, even if we could. We will need them for Tver. And with the army away, there are only a few levies we can raise back here: certainly not enough to risk sending them south to Smaleskja.”
“How long until Sverker returns with the bulk of our men?”
“We estimate around four months.”
“Then, alas, Smaleskja will have to fend for itself and we must hope the raid doesn’t come too far north before we can muster a sufficient force to destroy them. Muster the levies you can anyway. They can come to Nygarðr and be prepared to join the main army when it arrives back.”
Ch30 Q1: Raid Effect on Vassal.Typically, what kind and how much damage/detriment can I expect from this raid, assuming they clear out Smaleskja (including successfully besieging its tribal holding)? Noting that Grimr is a tribal vassal, so doesn’t pay me any tax and I haven’t built anything there myself. If they do the same to one of my lower-value demesne counties (Toropets being the next in line) I can expect something similar, except with direct effect on me. Is this something to be very concerned about, or just a cost of doing business so long as my central counties are kept safe?
Vsemil, who has managed to arrive back early from his raiding duties, taking a relay of horses from northern Italy (where he was surreptitiously dropped off) is given command of the levy summoned from Chud.[Chud was absorbed into the royal demesne after its conquest from Miemo, who kept Vologda.]
While the siege of Smaleskja continues, Rurik asks for information on the raider who dares to raid him. Jarl Samovlad of Vitebsk is actually a vassal of King Dyre of Konugarðr, but this raid is a free-lance by the Jarl. Dyre does nothing to back - or stop - the raid, according to tribal law. Samovlad is a schemer and a silver-tongue, a Slavic-Russian and owner of two counties, Vitebsk and Orsha – the latter of which is his seat, despite the name of his Jarldom.
“Tell me of his character, Helgi. Why has he chosen to hit us - to hit me on this raid?”
“The man is an interesting mix. I think the key factors here are not so much his skills as his traits. The man is a renowned hedonist and envious glutton. He is an ambitious adventurer by nature. So we believe he has spotted an opportunity with our own raid in progress for some quick gold and glory.”
“Damn him!” Rurik realises this may not only cause his realm some grief and his troops some casualties down the track but also delays any action on Tver. And it is also bitter news, after Alfgeir had persuaded him that any attempt to murder Adalberto from this great distance would likely be a waste of time and gold.
“And you’re sure we can’t hire any mercenaries?”
“Not until the fleet returns with its loot from the raid,” advises Alfgeir. “We have less than 100 gold in the treasury right now, and the cheapest mercenary band we can find that is available – the Finnish Band - would cost 150 and then a monthly retainer of more than 6 gold. The raid hasn’t been lucrative enough for me to advise spending the money we’d have anyway. We need it for your plans to create Rus.”
February-March 878
February passed with the fleet making its way home (which by 10 March was in the Black Sea and about to enter the Russian river system); the small Chud levy making its way to Nygarðr; and the Vitebskian raiders laying waste to Smaleskja, defeating its garrison and heading north to continue pillaging. They would arrive in Toropets by the end of March. At least Grimr’s men exacted some damage on the attackers.
While this bad business grinds on and Rurik grinds his teeth in frustration, he finds solace in the stars. The knowledge learned has had a very pleasing and useful outcome. It not only improves the King’s spirits greatly but is of direct use to the army.
Helgi puts this knowledge to immediate use, adding as it does to the research already in progress. The organisation of Holmgarðr’s warrior system is improved.
And while they remained some way off being able to hire a retinue, this does move them appreciably closer – and lifts the morale of the whole army.
As predicted, the siege of the tribal holding of Toropets – part of Rurik’s personal demesne – begins before March is over. The Chud tribal levy arrives in Holmgarđr, where it must cool its heels. But, to the south, the returning fleet now sails past the very county of Orsha from whence the current raiders commenced their foray. Salvation approaches.
Ch30 Q2: Looting Effect on Demesne.So, to follow on from the first question and because I didn’t think to check while it was happening: does the loot these hostile raiders steal from one of my own demesne counties come out of my treasury? Or is it just lifted from the populace of the county, with the effect being on taxation until it recovers (more on that below) from the raid?
April 878
The month begins with happier news – a daughter for Helgi and Jorunn. A good Germanic Norse lass. Rurik is sure she will come in handy for a dynastic marriage in the future. But for the next many years, she can be enjoyed as a grandchild - his third now.
Meanwhile, the siege of Toropets wears on and the fleet navigates the rivers north for the rest of April.
May 878
The fleet was almost home – they had passed through Lake Ladoga, from thence they would travel to the Gulf of Finland and then to port in Ingria[for some reason they can’t just jump off the boats from the rivers earlier – at least it wouldn’t let me set an inland province as a destination when I was returning them home]. But Grimr’s scouts report more raiders are gathering in Orsha – it seems High Chief Samovlad has been encouraged by his success so far and means to go on with it. Rurik vows to disabuse him of this rash overconfidence. Or have Sverker do so on his behalf, in any case.
After having set off back on 29 August 875, the raiding fleet returns to Ingria on 9 May 878. It may have led to some unforeseen setbacks along the way – some very personal and painful – but the money and prestige gained from its return is welcome.
While Alfgeir secures the gold, the troops are not permitted any time to rest. After a single night of revelry in Ingria, they are on their way at dawn the next day. They will have to regain their condition on the road south the pick up the Chud levy from Nygarðr and march to meet the Vitebskian raiders in Toropets. They may not be in time to relieve the defenders but will try their best.
The Toropets holding falls on 28 May, with the main army almost at Holmgarðr. But the Vitebskians remain in Toropets for now. [Not sure what they may still be besieging, as I checked and there is only the one tribal holding there.]
June 878
The army reached the home county of Holmgarðr and reorganises. At first, the troops refused to mingle together. It transpired that, in their haste to march from Ingria to the capital, the Sacred Raiding Toggle had not been deactivated! The Godi was soon brought in to rectify the situation and the Chud contingent was soon happily merged into the main army.
Godi Þorolfr presides over the ceremony to deactivate the Sacred Raiding Toggle. Its arcane mysteries have been a constant source of head-scratching confusion and delay throughout the life of the young realm.
That settled, and having previously been on the wrong end of some unexpected battle results, a new formation is tried. First, the left wing is merged into the centre, to form a single large formation of almost 1,000 men. Then for the two remaining wings, a lead commander is appointed, then one for the largest regiment within each. Sverker would command the centre, with Svetozar in charge of the Holmgarðr Tribe levy. Vsemil commands the right, with Dan taking the Ladoga Tribe levy into battle. More recruits will continue to join the army on the march.
Ch30 Q3. Levy Dismissal and Recall Mechanics.OK, I wanted to just get the army going south and tossing out those raiders ASAP. What I didn’t do was dismiss the old levy components as they arrived back in country and then recall them. I thought of doing it, assuming (but not knowing) that would allow those contingents to bring in all the new recruits who would have been trained while they were away but that I discovered (or believed, anyway) couldn’t be summoned while the others were already stood up. My assumption was that, while the extra levies (around 800-900 I think) should have been available on recall, they would have been all over the place and would have to be all drawn together again. I reckoned I had enough to get the job done, so marched straight on to Blood and Battle! Am I generally correct in those assumptions (whether, if correct, I made the right decision is of course another matter)? Having learned the hard way once about dismissing levies away from home, I had to wait until the deployed levies were back, which at least I did this time. But it meant I couldn’t call up the latent levies while the raiders were away, just the Chud levy which was newly conquered and hadn’t been raised when the raiders left. Any views, advice etc welcome.
By 23 June the Holmgarðian Army had reinforced up to 1,400 men in strength and fell upon the Vitebskian raiders, who had foolishly remained in Toropets and had not been reinforced. Battle was joined, the enemy deployed in the standard three divisions. The new battle formation would be tested.
“Enough of this archery skirmishing – lets have at them!” Sverker leads the attack. Neither Rurik nor Helgi are risked for the dispatch of these scurvy raiders.
July 878
The battle seemed to be progressing according to plan. The morale of the Vitebskian centre division – the only one with a competent commander - was failing quickly, while Vsemil on the right was having no problems with his opponents. The enemy’s left may have free rein to shoot their arrows at Sverker, but it was having little enough effect. Their hash would be settled in due course. Down in Vitebsk and Orshar, Samovlad was calling up more of his levies for raiding purposes. The current group must be defeated before they could be reinforced and perhaps turn the tables.
By 7 July, the enemy’s centre division was broken and fleeing, Vsemil had the upper hand on the right and now Sverker could turn his attentions to the enemy’s left flank, which he heavily outnumbered – and was against a very poor leader. Samovlad’s reinforcements were now on their way to Vitebsk.
By 16 July, the enemy’s remaining flanks had turned and run, with Sverker and Vsemil in pursuit.
And eight days later, the enemy had fully fled the battlefield at Toropets – and good riddance to them! Iliya’s army made for Vitebsk. Sverker’s army was in reasonable shape and could regain morale on its march south to Smaleskja, from where it would be able to protect Toropets again if necessary; strike west against Orsha itself if ordered to take the battle to the enemy; or indeed strike east against Tver should that be the next requirement. Another army in the area (from Pallteskja) was also heading to Smaleskja. They were believed to be neutral, but just to be sure … Sverker, who has now won his first victory as an independent army commander, will stand guard.
August 878
While the troops make their various movements, the business of governing goes on. Steward Alfgeir was summoned to inform the King of the effect this Vitebskian raid had on the royal demesne county of Toropets.
“Tell me the worst, Alfgeir. What has this done to the already small tax we get from this county?”
“Here, My Liege, this report tells the story. Basically, the raid has stripped half the revenue from the county. In the few weeks since Sverker freed it, a very small amount has been rebuilt [ie it has gone from -50% to -49%], but it will take some time to fully recover. And it is still in this period of ‘new administration’ since our earlier conquest. And then the natives provide less because they are Slavic Russians - it is like getting blood from a stone. Our combined skills of stewardship redress that somewhat.” Alfgeir fishes here for a compliment, but none is forthcoming.
“So, we will receive half the pittance we usually get for now. And are you able to tell me yet whether the gold they sacked from the countryside came from our coffers or the local populace, whose ability to provide tax revenue has now been decreased?”
“Not yet, My Liege. The accountants are looking in to it. I hope to have their expert advice for you soon.”
“Very well, that will be all.”
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
The next caller was Helgi, who had come to advise current dispositions and seek guidance on future moves.
“Father, in recent days the two Vitebskian armies have joined together – co-located in the same county, but not combined, it would seem, as Iliya still flees in rout – and are heading towards Orsha. Sverker arrived in Smaleskja today and reports young Grimr’s regent to be most relieved at his presence. They await your orders.”
“How long would it take for our army to arrive in Orsha, Helgi?”
“I estimate they could be there by 29 August. Iliya’s routing contingent would arrive there first, on around 22 August, the rest of the Vitebskian levies by 26 August. If they stand together there, Sverker would outnumber them by a comparatively small margin - about 150.”
[NB: this is an estimate for planning purposes. The order has not yet been given.]
“And I see we expect him to keep up with this raiding folly of his for at least another four months!”
“Yes Father. Perhaps we should smash him before he has a chance to reform and come against us again?”
[PS: Though I have just had the thought: going off the last chapter, would my defeat of the Vitebskian raiders in Toropets now mean the ‘can’t raid for fives years’ rule now applies to Samovlad? As it did to me after Pisa? I know of no way to mouse-over or check this other than by just letting it run and seeing what happens if Samovlad reappears. This may well affect Rurik’s calculations.]
“It is a definite possibility Helgi. Could we raid him in return? Get Þorolfr to do his thing with the Sacred Raiding Toggle again, and visit on Samovlad what he did on us? I don’t like the idea of leaving him at our back while we make our attempt on Tver. Which could take quite some time to finish and could get a bit sticky if he summons a religious host and we must counter with a tribal army of conquest. If we did raid him, how much loot might be on offer?”
“Not a great deal, Father. Seven to twelve gold in Orsha, eight to twelve in Vitebsk, depending on whether we want to besiege their tribal holdings. Not what we were getting from Greece and Italy, to be sure. But the main point would be breaking Samovlad’s army, rather than becoming rich.”
“Very well, let us think on it Helgi. There is another alternative, of course.”
“Yes, hitting Tver now, mobilising all the forces we need and if necessary holding some troops to deal with Vitebsk if they interfere again.”
“That’s it, Son. Let us look at Tver again.”
Helgi reports on the other, long-held option.
“Our current mobilised levy and other troops is about the same strength as that of Zhavoronok’s. He has the piety to muster a religious hoard, and we the prestige for a tribal army. He does not look to have the funds to hire a decent mercenary band, but we could now, with the raid treasure, if we had to. Either to clinch an invasion or to fend off Vitebsk.”
“But to declare such a war and to call up our potential vassal ally of Smaleskja, by law we would first need to demobilise the current levy, would we not?”
“Yes Father. They would all need to be re-mustered from their home counties and concentrated again. The tribal army could be summoned immediately. My understanding is they would arrive in Holmgarðr first. But this dismissal and re-mustering would, I believe, allow us to assemble the full quota from all our demesne counties – now at over 2,000. Then there are the remaining 247 members of your personal Holmgarðr Regiment and Þorolfr’s 47, giving us over 2,350 men. A tribal army would bring that to almost 5,000 and should Grimr respond to our summons, that would take it close to 5,500 troops.”
“Right, against say 3,800 from Tver factoring in a religious host. And 1,200-1,300 from Vitebsk on our flank. Roughly even, without the mercenaries.”
“Yes. I know Steward Alfgeir would wish to guard our gold closely and we must retain enough to declare the Kingdom of Rus – which he says would cost 138 gold. The subjugation of Tver’s would bring three counties into the realm – and take us to 13 out of the 24 counted in the de jure Kingdom of Rus. In other words, the simple majority we need to proclaim it. Your piety in the Germanic faith is great, so that would be no obstacle. And the prestige gained from establishing Rus would offset that spent on calling a tribal army.”
“Right. Alfgeir provided his treasury report to me earlier. I have 350 gold to hand. Setting about 140 aside, that would leave 210 at the most for mercenary hire, though it will mean cutting our finances very fine. “
“Well, Father, the cheapest available band at present could be had for 140, a few for 150 and some of the cavalry bands – the Alans or Pechenegs – for 175. Leaving enough for upkeep and expenses for a few months, at least.”
“Just so, Helgi. So, it comes to a choice: strike now at Samovlad and crush these Vitebskian pests, then - once our troops are safely back on home soil, of course - disband and re-muster the full levy. Summon the tribal army, keeping the hire of mercenaries up our sleeves to counter any other later threats, from Samovlad or elsewhere. Or ignore Samovlad completely for now and hit Tver quickly after the new muster, get Rus established, then deal with Samovlad as we must.”
“I think that sums it up, Father. Shall we put it to our military council to gain their views?”
“Yes, do that. But let them know my first inclination is to quickly crush Samovlad now, launching a quick raid before he is ready to receive our assault. Then, having sent him packing in retreat, demobilise, re-muster and declare a war of subjugation on Tver with our full force.”
“I will see what our key advisors have to say and whether they may raise any more considerations for us to contend with. Better right than hasty."
“Yes Helgi, see to it. And good work by the way on training up our reserves in the meantime. Our forces once again will be large enough to contend with any neighbour. Except perhaps for Konugarðr, which grows ever larger to our south. But that is a problem for another day.”
“Father, speaking now on that subject, here is my report on our potential for future growth. We currently have over a thousand under arms. If we remuster, that should become around 2,000. Given time, our levies should come to number almost 5,000, but that will take much training over many years, especially as we take casualties in the meantime.”
“Very useful to know Helgi. If we can ever wield approaching our full strength, the others will tremble at our approach. But it may come to your time to achieve that. My own years lengthen and my recent … troubles … lay heavily on me.”
“I know Father, but Odin’s wisdom has brought me to your side now in all ways and, between us and with the Gods’ help, I am certain we will forge a mighty Norse Germanic kingdom here in these Russian lands.”
The two clasp hand-to-forearm in farewell. Their relationship has never been better and, given his current personal problems, Rurik recorded in his private journal that he felt a great relief in knowing the Germanic future of the realm was now in the safe hands of his son. It is a great comfort to him in otherwise difficult though still exciting times.
Ch30 Q4. Vitebsk first or Tver?If my assumptions are broadly correct above about the levy mechanics and numbers, King Rurik has set the question he believes he should ask and thinks he knows the answer to. If not, he would value the wise advice of the Þing to clear up any misunderstandings. Of course, even if the assumptions are correct, others may have different views about what should be done and when. One of the factors driving Rurik’s urgency about forming Rus is the question of succession under the gavelkind system. Based on advice from past Þings, he is convinced that this must if possible be done before the realm is rent asunder, as it would put his heir – the now unquestionable preferred Helgi – in the best position. And who knows how long the Gods may grant him life and sanity? That said, he doesn’t want to leave Samovlad and his raiders like a dagger at his back in what could be a difficult and protracted war to subjugate Tver.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Much as Rurik would like to take his rest after a long day – and without the solace or release of a comely Norse lass to warm his bed and heart – he still had work to do. And he knew he must do that while the black dog of his torment was currently in a period of relative abeyance.
Thinking of his wife, he looked at a letter he had received from her that day. Some time in the recent months – and with no specific report to hand at the time - it appeared Queen Ingjerðr had recovered from her bout of the flu. Though she was still under much stress fulfilling her role as spymaster in far-off Constantinople. Not that he was able to muster that much sympathy – after her attempt on Helgi’s life, perhaps far-off was the best place for her. For all their sakes.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Rurik next looked at a letter the Godi has sent him. In it, he suggests that a new appointment for the court, that of Tutor, would be advisable. A tutor could educate those children at court who do not have an assigned guardian. Of course, the Godi advised any tutor should be a good Norse Germanic person and at least reasonably adept in learning skills. And loyal to me, too, thinks Rurik to himself. I don’t want potential traitors, circling like crows, waiting to pick my eyes out with their probing, probing beaks …
Shaking himself out of these negative thoughts and looking over the lists provided him, he selected Jedvard, a lowborn man who should do well enough. And, in appointing him, he discovered the man was in search of a bride: 43 summers and unmarried – that will not do. A potential bride was chosen and the request sent. She seemed well-rounded, honest like Jedvard, and ambitious to become a seeress, with the running of a temple to her name in far-off Cashel. And young, so she should be capable of bearing many strong Norse children for the future of the realm.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
And the final piece of correspondence he dealt with before retiring that night was to reply to a letter from Chancellor Hrörekr, currently in Ingria to try to persuade Chief Nuyanza to once again support his king more fulsomely. He requested one of the four vacant positions for Hirdman, which had been deliberately held back for just such occasions, be offered to the proud chief. It should earn a little consolation for not being put on the Council and would reinforce Hrörekr’s own efforts. Grumbling, due to his low opinion of Nuyanza for having rejected the last call to arms, Rurik nonetheless agreed.
Then, he tried to sleep, having put off the dreaded time of restless nightmare as long as he could. Perhaps, he thought to himself resignedly, tonight I may sleep without torment …
We shall leave him to his private misery and draw a polite veil over whatever scenes may have followed. At least, this is what Gumarich strove to do in his narrative of the times. So we, as modern historians, shall do the same and leave Rurik to his dreams and nightmares.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
The Þing was summoned for the next day. This would be a significant one, with some fundamental issues key to the future of the young Rurikid dynasty at stake. Would it thrive and grow? Or fade into the steppes, as many other would-be great kingdoms before and since? The translation of the next section of the scroll-trove will shed light on this next key passage of history.
Questions
Ch30 Q1: Raid Effect on Vassal. Typically, what kind and how much damage/detriment can I expect from this raid, assuming they clear out Smaleskja (including successfully besieging its tribal holding)? Noting that Grimr is a tribal vassal, so doesn’t pay me any tax and I haven’t built anything there myself. If they do the same to one of my lower-value demesne counties (Toropets being the next in line) I can expect something similar, except with direct effect on me. Is this something to be very concerned about, or just a cost of doing business so long as my central counties are kept safe?
Ch30 Q2: Looting Effect on Demesne. So, to follow on from the first question and because I didn’t think to check while it was happening: does the loot these hostile raiders steal from one of my own demesne counties come out of my treasury? Or is it just lifted from the populace of the county, with the effect being on taxation until it recovers (more on that below) from the raid?
Ch30 Q3. Levy Dismissal and Recall Mechanics. OK, I wanted to just get the army going south and tossing out those raiders ASAP. What I didn’t do was dismiss the old levy components as they arrived back in country and then recall them. I thought of doing it, assuming (but not knowing) that would allow those contingents to bring in all the new recruits who would have been trained while they were away but that I discovered (or believed, anyway) couldn’t be summoned while the others were already stood up. My assumption was that, while the extra levies (around 800-900 I think) should have been available on recall, they would have been all over the place and would have to be all drawn together again. I reckoned I had enough to get the job done, so marched straight on to Blood and Battle! Am I generally correct in those assumptions (whether, if correct, I made the right decision is of course another matter)? Having learned the hard way once about dismissing levies away from home, I had to wait until the deployed levies were back, which at least I did this time. But it meant I couldn’t call up the latent levies while the raiders were away, just the Chud levy which was newly conquered and hadn’t been raised when the raiders left. Any views, advice etc welcome.
Ch30 Q4. Vitebsk first or Tver? If my assumptions are broadly correct above about the levy mechanics and numbers, King Rurik has set the question he believes he should ask and thinks he knows the answer to. If not, he would value the wise advice of the Þing to clear up any misunderstandings. Of course, even if the assumptions are correct, others may have different views about what should be done and when. One of the factors driving Rurik’s urgency about forming Rus is the question of succession under the gavelkind system. Based on advice from past Þings, he is convinced that this must if possible be done before the realm is rent asunder, as it would put his heir – the now unquestionable preferred Helgi – in the best position. And who knows how long the Gods may grant him life and sanity? That said, he doesn’t want to leave Samovlad and his raiders like a dagger at his back in what could be a difficult and protracted war to subjugate Tver.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
It is time to invoke Thor to smite the unbelievers. But which enemy should his mighty hammer strike first?
Before I answer the questions, I first want to state that I approve of Rurik utilizing the stars for military learning, as the stars CAN be a useful tool to navigate by, during the night.
Ch30 Q1: Raid Effect on Vassal. Typically, what kind and how much damage/detriment can I expect from this raid, assuming they clear out Smaleskja (including successfully besieging its tribal holding)? Noting that Grimr is a tribal vassal, so doesn’t pay me any tax and I haven’t built anything there myself. If they do the same to one of my lower-value demesne counties (Toropets being the next in line) I can expect something similar, except with direct effect on me. Is this something to be very concerned about, or just a cost of doing business so long as my central counties are kept safe?
The primary cost is to your vassal. If he pays no taxes to you, there is pretty much no cost to you. Raiders on your counties are naturally bad news.
Ch30 Q2: Looting Effect on Demesne. So, to follow on from the first question and because I didn’t think to check while it was happening: does the loot these hostile raiders steal from one of my own demesne counties come out of my treasury? Or is it just lifted from the populace of the county, with the effect being on taxation until it recovers (more on that below) from the raid?
The loot comes from the people, and you basically pay by receiving less tax income while it replenishes.
Ch30 Q3. Levy Dismissal and Recall Mechanics. OK, I wanted to just get the army going south and tossing out those raiders ASAP. What I didn’t do was dismiss the old levy components as they arrived back in country and then recall them. I thought of doing it, assuming (but not knowing) that would allow those contingents to bring in all the new recruits who would have been trained while they were away but that I discovered (or believed, anyway) couldn’t be summoned while the others were already stood up. My assumption was that, while the extra levies (around 800-900 I think) should have been available on recall, they would have been all over the place and would have to be all drawn together again. I reckoned I had enough to get the job done, so marched straight on to Blood and Battle! Am I generally correct in those assumptions (whether, if correct, I made the right decision is of course another matter)? Having learned the hard way once about dismissing levies away from home, I had to wait until the deployed levies were back, which at least I did this time. But it meant I couldn’t call up the latent levies while the raiders were away, just the Chud levy which was newly conquered and hadn’t been raised when the raiders left. Any views, advice etc welcome.
Each holding can only have 1 raised regiment/whatever term you want to use. The extra levies CAN be added over time (slowly, very slowly) if your army is on your lands via reinforcement. You did this the right way. One possible consideration would be if your levy sources were widely spread, in which case it may take quite a while for all of them to gather up vs having what you already gathered up ready now.
Ch30 Q4. Vitebsk first or Tver? If my assumptions are broadly correct above about the levy mechanics and numbers, King Rurik has set the question he believes he should ask and thinks he knows the answer to. If not, he would value the wise advice of the Þing to clear up any misunderstandings. Of course, even if the assumptions are correct, others may have different views about what should be done and when. One of the factors driving Rurik’s urgency about forming Rus is the question of succession under the gavelkind system. Based on advice from past Þings, he is convinced that this must if possible be done before the realm is rent asunder, as it would put his heir – the now unquestionable preferred Helgi – in the best position. And who knows how long the Gods may grant him life and sanity? That said, he doesn’t want to leave Samovlad and his raiders like a dagger at his back in what could be a difficult and protracted war to subjugate Tver.
Unite the realm. As you grow stronger, Tver will naturally grow easier to subjugate.
Edit: The traits of your tutor may come into play regarding education, and I would still recommend personally educating likely heirs and other important children, including any non norse germanics.
Also edit: Its pretty much NEVER worth it to hire mercs to kill raiders.
Ch30 Q1: Raid Effect on Vassal. Typically, what kind and how much damage/detriment can I expect from this raid, assuming they clear out Smaleskja (including successfully besieging its tribal holding)? Noting that Grimr is a tribal vassal, so doesn’t pay me any tax and I haven’t built anything there myself. If they do the same to one of my lower-value demesne counties (Toropets being the next in line) I can expect something similar, except with direct effect on me. Is this something to be very concerned about, or just a cost of doing business so long as my central counties are kept safe?
there are 2 detrimental things i've seen raiders do: the lowering of tax income for a certain period of time, and the destruction of trade centers. since you are not on the silk road i guess the second one is not your concern and if it is a province of a vassal that does not pay tax or a province of yours that has negligible tax income then there is not much to worry about although this is my experience playing as a horselord. there may be some mechanics that just don't exist for horselords.
actually since nearly all my vassals are most of the time power hungry warmongers waiting for an opportunity to grab my title i enjoyed a nice raiding of them.
i really only get anxious about raiders if they are nearing a trade center. other than that they are just a nuisance and there is no need to waste money on mercenaries just to stop raiders.
Ch30 Q2: Looting Effect on Demesne. So, to follow on from the first question and because I didn’t think to check while it was happening: does the loot these hostile raiders steal from one of my own demesne counties come out of my treasury? Or is it just lifted from the populace of the county, with the effect being on taxation until it recovers (more on that below) from the raid?
Ch30 Q3. Levy Dismissal and Recall Mechanics. OK, I wanted to just get the army going south and tossing out those raiders ASAP. What I didn’t do was dismiss the old levy components as they arrived back in country and then recall them. I thought of doing it, assuming (but not knowing) that would allow those contingents to bring in all the new recruits who would have been trained while they were away but that I discovered (or believed, anyway) couldn’t be summoned while the others were already stood up. My assumption was that, while the extra levies (around 800-900 I think) should have been available on recall, they would have been all over the place and would have to be all drawn together again. I reckoned I had enough to get the job done, so marched straight on to Blood and Battle! Am I generally correct in those assumptions (whether, if correct, I made the right decision is of course another matter)? Having learned the hard way once about dismissing levies away from home, I had to wait until the deployed levies were back, which at least I did this time. But it meant I couldn’t call up the latent levies while the raiders were away, just the Chud levy which was newly conquered and hadn’t been raised when the raiders left. Any views, advice etc welcome.
Ch30 Q4. Vitebsk first or Tver? If my assumptions are broadly correct above about the levy mechanics and numbers, King Rurik has set the question he believes he should ask and thinks he knows the answer to. If not, he would value the wise advice of the Þing to clear up any misunderstandings. Of course, even if the assumptions are correct, others may have different views about what should be done and when. One of the factors driving Rurik’s urgency about forming Rus is the question of succession under the gavelkind system. Based on advice from past Þings, he is convinced that this must if possible be done before the realm is rent asunder, as it would put his heir – the now unquestionable preferred Helgi – in the best position. And who knows how long the Gods may grant him life and sanity? That said, he doesn’t want to leave Samovlad and his raiders like a dagger at his back in what could be a difficult and protracted war to subjugate Tver.
of course there is a risk of death before the proclamation of the kingdom of rus, i find it both more in character to put those pesky vitebskians back into their place and then going on with the business, and also it makes more sense in military sense to neutralize a threat on another wing before going on a campaign somewhere else. if it seemed like a lengthier expedition i would've said go for tver first, but the affair with vitebsk seems it would be a quick one.
While this bad business grinds on and Rurik grinds his teeth in frustration, he finds solace in the stars. The knowledge learned has had a very pleasing and useful outcome. It not only improves the King’s spirits greatly but is of direct use to the army.
maybe he didn't go insane after all, he just had a lot of time in the dungeons to think about the stars and came up with a good theory of astronomy and since he is ahead of his time and short of some bits the historians just thought he was insane.
Godi Þorolfr presides over the ceremony to deactivate the Sacred Raiding Toggle. Its arcane mysteries have been a constant source of head-scratching confusion and delay throughout the life of the young realm.
[PS: Though I have just had the thought: going off the last chapter, would my defeat of the Vitebskian raiders in Toropets now mean the ‘can’t raid for fives years’ rule now applies to Samovlad? As it did to me after Pisa? I know of no way to mouse-over or check this other than by just letting it run and seeing what happens if Samovlad reappears. This may well affect Rurik’s calculations.]
A potential bride was chosen and the request sent. She seemed well-rounded, honest like Jedvard, and ambitious to become a seeress, with the running of a temple to her name in far-off Cashel. And young, so she should be capable of bearing many strong Norse children for the future of the realm.
the new tutor's wife seems to be a much better tutor than he is. i am not sure but i hope half her stats will get added into his (although i am not sure even if that happens, for the events that rely on some stats of the tutor would take that into account)
Ch30 Q1: Raid Effect on Vassal. Typically, what kind and how much damage/detriment can I expect from this raid, assuming they clear out Smaleskja (including successfully besieging its tribal holding)? Noting that Grimr is a tribal vassal, so doesn’t pay me any tax and I haven’t built anything there myself. If they do the same to one of my lower-value demesne counties (Toropets being the next in line) I can expect something similar, except with direct effect on me. Is this something to be very concerned about, or just a cost of doing business so long as my central counties are kept safe?
Nothing really to be concerned about when its your vassals. When its your own land, you get a penalty for tax and I think levy size for a little while on the county in question. It clears up quickly enough that so long as its just one and you aren't going to war or be invaded that year, you should be fine. Again, tribal rulers have it easier than feudal ones in this regard.
Ch30 Q2: Looting Effect on Demesne. So, to follow on from the first question and because I didn’t think to check while it was happening: does the loot these hostile raiders steal from one of my own demesne counties come out of my treasury? Or is it just lifted from the populace of the county, with the effect being on taxation until it recovers (more on that below) from the raid?
I think its mostly effect modifiers, because of course direct money stealing would make raiding the most powerful tool in the game to use, especially in multiplayer. Balance again.
Ch30 Q3. Levy Dismissal and Recall Mechanics. OK, I wanted to just get the army going south and tossing out those raiders ASAP. What I didn’t do was dismiss the old levy components as they arrived back in country and then recall them. I thought of doing it, assuming (but not knowing) that would allow those contingents to bring in all the new recruits who would have been trained while they were away but that I discovered (or believed, anyway) couldn’t be summoned while the others were already stood up. My assumption was that, while the extra levies (around 800-900 I think) should have been available on recall, they would have been all over the place and would have to be all drawn together again. I reckoned I had enough to get the job done, so marched straight on to Blood and Battle! Am I generally correct in those assumptions (whether, if correct, I made the right decision is of course another matter)? Having learned the hard way once about dismissing levies away from home, I had to wait until the deployed levies were back, which at least I did this time. But it meant I couldn’t call up the latent levies while the raiders were away, just the Chud levy which was newly conquered and hadn’t been raised when the raiders left. Any views, advice etc welcome.
Basically yes, if I understand you correctly. If its been some months since your last defeat where you suffered losses, and no land has been taken from you, then the potential levy should have regenerated to some degree. Getting the best effects of that would be to disband the remaining troops and call everyone back up again, and yes you would have to move them from each individual county back into position (this is why it is not a great tactic for invasions unless you know what you are doing). It's a good idea if there are no enemy troops in your borders at all and you can't see any in neighbouring counties.
Ch30 Q4. Vitebsk first or Tver? If my assumptions are broadly correct above about the levy mechanics and numbers, King Rurik has set the question he believes he should ask and thinks he knows the answer to. If not, he would value the wise advice of the Þing to clear up any misunderstandings. Of course, even if the assumptions are correct, others may have different views about what should be done and when. One of the factors driving Rurik’s urgency about forming Rus is the question of succession under the gavelkind system. Based on advice from past Þings, he is convinced that this must if possible be done before the realm is rent asunder, as it would put his heir – the now unquestionable preferred Helgi – in the best position. And who knows how long the Gods may grant him life and sanity? That said, he doesn’t want to leave Samovlad and his raiders like a dagger at his back in what could be a difficult and protracted war to subjugate Tver.
Kill whoever is easiest first. Unless the stronger one is directly threatening you now and has claims and such (and your ruler could die and leave you weak for the taking).
Rurik and Holmgarðr appear to be rebounding from the disastrous Mediterranean raid rather well, given the circumstances. Overall, that extra helping of gold in your treasury should help tide you over until your levies build up for your next conquest, which is what matters in the long term.
Fear not about being befuddled by the arcane mysteries of the Secret Raiding Toggle -- even veterans and greybeards have been known to improperly attend to the rites in their haste. It really is an easy thing to overlook when you've got your mind on three or four other things as well, as often happens in this game.
As for the questions: I'll basically second what's already been said.
Typically, what kind and how much damage/detriment can I expect from this raid, assuming they clear out Smaleskja (including successfully besieging its tribal holding)? Noting that Grimr is a tribal vassal, so doesn’t pay me any tax and I haven’t built anything there myself. If they do the same to one of my lower-value demesne counties (Toropets being the next in line) I can expect something similar, except with direct effect on me. Is this something to be very concerned about, or just a cost of doing business so long as my central counties are kept safe?
As others have noted, it's not going to affect you if they aren't paying taxes. If the tribal holding is burnt they won't have as many troops to offer (I think), but whether that's good or bad is situational.
So, to follow on from the first question and because I didn’t think to check while it was happening: does the loot these hostile raiders steal from one of my own demesne counties come out of my treasury? Or is it just lifted from the populace of the county, with the effect being on taxation until it recovers (more on that below) from the raid?
OK, I wanted to just get the army going south and tossing out those raiders ASAP. What I didn’t do was dismiss the old levy components as they arrived back in country and then recall them. I thought of doing it, assuming (but not knowing) that would allow those contingents to bring in all the new recruits who would have been trained while they were away but that I discovered (or believed, anyway) couldn’t be summoned while the others were already stood up. My assumption was that, while the extra levies (around 800-900 I think) should have been available on recall, they would have been all over the place and would have to be all drawn together again. I reckoned I had enough to get the job done, so marched straight on to Blood and Battle! Am I generally correct in those assumptions (whether, if correct, I made the right decision is of course another matter)? Having learned the hard way once about dismissing levies away from home, I had to wait until the deployed levies were back, which at least I did this time. But it meant I couldn’t call up the latent levies while the raiders were away, just the Chud levy which was newly conquered and hadn’t been raised when the raiders left. Any views, advice etc welcome.
That's correct. And I can't remember if it's been covered in this AAR, but there is now a rally point feature to make gathering all the levies less painful. Also, once feudal, each of your vassals one level below you will have their troops fully gathered when you call them up, so it's not fully inconvenient.
If my assumptions are broadly correct above about the levy mechanics and numbers, King Rurik has set the question he believes he should ask and thinks he knows the answer to. If not, he would value the wise advice of the Þing to clear up any misunderstandings. Of course, even if the assumptions are correct, others may have different views about what should be done and when. One of the factors driving Rurik’s urgency about forming Rus is the question of succession under the gavelkind system. Based on advice from past Þings, he is convinced that this must if possible be done before the realm is rent asunder, as it would put his heir – the now unquestionable preferred Helgi – in the best position. And who knows how long the Gods may grant him life and sanity? That said, he doesn’t want to leave Samovlad and his raiders like a dagger at his back in what could be a difficult and protracted war to subjugate Tver.
The Tenth Thing of Rurik's Reign – August 878 (a summary of advice from Chapter 30)
This Þing is largely about the order in which certain steps should be taken, rather than what should be done. The principal decision is whether to go for Tver first, establish Rus, then deal with other issues (such as the Vitebskian raiders) or to settle Vitebsk first then go about the subjugation of Tver. The spectre of Rurik's mortality and the gavelkind succession system currently in place hangs over all proceedings - even if many present don't wish to state this so obviously. So much to do, so little time!
Before I answer the questions, I first want to state that I approve of Rurik utilizing the stars for military learning, as the stars CAN be a useful tool to navigate by, during the night.
Indeed, I used to use them on tanks for night moves for general direction and orientation: compasses didn’t work very well on top of 40+ tons of steel!
Edit: The traits of your tutor may come into play regarding education, and I would still recommend personally educating likely heirs and other important children, including any non norse germanics.
maybe he didn't go insane after all, he just had a lot of time in the dungeons to think about the stars and came up with a good theory of astronomy and since he is ahead of his time and short of some bits the historians just thought he was insane.
the new tutor's wife seems to be a much better tutor than he is. i am not sure but i hope half her stats will get added into his (although i am not sure even if that happens, for the events that rely on some stats of the tutor would take that into account)
Rurik and Holmgarðr appear to be rebounding from the disastrous Mediterranean raid rather well, given the circumstances. Overall, that extra helping of gold in your treasury should help tide you over until your levies build up for your next conquest, which is what matters in the long term.
Fear not about being befuddled by the arcane mysteries of the Secret Raiding Toggle -- even veterans and greybeards have been known to improperly attend to the rites in their haste. It really is an easy thing to overlook when you've got your mind on three or four other things as well, as often happens in this game.
As for the questions: I'll basically second what's already been said.
Many thanks – yes, some setbacks in the Med for sure, but none insurmountable. I think he’s safer back in home territory, even if there are still a few curve balls (pun intended)!
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Ch30 Q1: Raid Effect on Vassal.Typically, what kind and how much damage/detriment can I expect from this raid, assuming they clear out Smaleskja (including successfully besieging its tribal holding)? Noting that Grimr is a tribal vassal, so doesn’t pay me any tax and I haven’t built anything there myself. If they do the same to one of my lower-value demesne counties (Toropets being the next in line) I can expect something similar, except with direct effect on me. Is this something to be very concerned about, or just a cost of doing business so long as my central counties are kept safe?
there are 2 detrimental things i've seen raiders do: the lowering of tax income for a certain period of time, and the destruction of trade centers. since you are not on the silk road i guess the second one is not your concern and if it is a province of a vassal that does not pay tax or a province of yours that has negligible tax income then there is not much to worry about although this is my experience playing as a horselord. there may be some mechanics that just don't exist for horselords.
actually since nearly all my vassals are most of the time power hungry warmongers waiting for an opportunity to grab my title i enjoyed a nice raiding of them.
i really only get anxious about raiders if they are nearing a trade center. other than that they are just a nuisance and there is no need to waste money on mercenaries just to stop raiders.
Nothing really to be concerned about when its your vassals. When its your own land, you get a penalty for tax and I think levy size for a little while on the county in question. It clears up quickly enough that so long as its just one and you aren't going to war or be invaded that year, you should be fine. Again, tribal rulers have it easier than feudal ones in this regard.
As others have noted, it's not going to affect you if they aren't paying taxes. If the tribal holding is burnt they won't have as many troops to offer (I think), but whether that's good or bad is situational.
All pretty clear, thanks everyone. I don’t have any trade routes/centres etc, so that isn’t an issue, yet anyway. Smaleskja is the only tribal vassal that does actually provide troops when called, but they seem not to have been affected (will find out when I next mobilise them, I guess.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Ch30 Q2: Looting Effect on Demesne.So, to follow on from the first question and because I didn’t think to check while it was happening: does the loot these hostile raiders steal from one of my own demesne counties come out of my treasury? Or is it just lifted from the populace of the county, with the effect being on taxation until it recovers (more on that below) from the raid?
I think its mostly effect modifiers, because of course direct money stealing would make raiding the most powerful tool in the game to use, especially in multiplayer. Balance again.
Ch30 Q3: Levy Dismissal and Recall Mechanics.OK, I wanted to just get the army going south and tossing out those raiders ASAP. What I didn’t do was dismiss the old levy components as they arrived back in country and then recall them. I thought of doing it, assuming (but not knowing) that would allow those contingents to bring in all the new recruits who would have been trained while they were away but that I discovered (or believed, anyway) couldn’t be summoned while the others were already stood up. My assumption was that, while the extra levies (around 800-900 I think) should have been available on recall, they would have been all over the place and would have to be all drawn together again. I reckoned I had enough to get the job done, so marched straight on to Blood and Battle! Am I generally correct in those assumptions (whether, if correct, I made the right decision is of course another matter)? Having learned the hard way once about dismissing levies away from home, I had to wait until the deployed levies were back, which at least I did this time. But it meant I couldn’t call up the latent levies while the raiders were away, just the Chud levy which was newly conquered and hadn’t been raised when the raiders left. Any views, advice etc welcome.
Each holding can only have 1 raised regiment/whatever term you want to use. The extra levies CAN be added over time (slowly, very slowly) if your army is on your lands via reinforcement. You did this the right way. One possible consideration would be if your levy sources were widely spread, in which case it may take quite a while for all of them to gather up vs having what you already gathered up ready now.
Basically yes, if I understand you correctly. If its been some months since your last defeat where you suffered losses, and no land has been taken from you, then the potential levy should have regenerated to some degree. Getting the best effects of that would be to disband the remaining troops and call everyone back up again, and yes you would have to move them from each individual county back into position (this is why it is not a great tactic for invasions unless you know what you are doing). It's a good idea if there are no enemy troops in your borders at all and you can't see any in neighbouring counties.
Per above, should be OK as the tribal army will appear in Holmgarðr, along with the largest of the demesne levies, so I think I can take that risk to re-muster.
That's correct. And I can't remember if it's been covered in this AAR, but there is now a rally point feature to make gathering all the levies less painful. Also, once feudal, each of your vassals one level below you will have their troops fully gathered when you call them up, so it's not fully inconvenient.
OK. And one day (if I survive that long) I’ll be able to take advantage of those feudal attributes too.
3A.PS:Though I have just had the thought: going off the last chapter, would my defeat of the Vitebskian raiders in Toropets now mean the ‘can’t raid for fives years’ rule now applies to Samovlad? As it did to me after Pisa? I know of no way to mouse-over or check this other than by just letting it run and seeing what happens if Samovlad reappears. This may well affect Rurik’s calculations.
This is my thinking too, which of course may affect Rurik’s decision on where to go next.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Ch30 Q4: Vitebsk first or Tver?If my assumptions are broadly correct above about the levy mechanics and numbers, King Rurik has set the question he believes he should ask and thinks he knows the answer to. If not, he would value the wise advice of the Þing to clear up any misunderstandings. Of course, even if the assumptions are correct, others may have different views about what should be done and when. One of the factors driving Rurik’s urgency about forming Rus is the question of succession under the gavelkind system. Based on advice from past Þings, he is convinced that this must if possible be done before the realm is rent asunder, as it would put his heir – the now unquestionable preferred Helgi – in the best position. And who knows how long the Gods may grant him life and sanity? That said, he doesn’t want to leave Samovlad and his raiders like a dagger at his back in what could be a difficult and protracted war to subjugate Tver.
Noted. I don’t think I’ll need to. If I do, it will be for the war with Tver or as an emergency reserve in case someone else attacks while I’m caught up with Tver.
of course there is a risk of death before the proclamation of the kingdom of rus, i find it both more in character to put those pesky vitebskians back into their place and then going on with the business, and also it makes more sense in military sense to neutralize a threat on another wing before going on a campaign somewhere else. if it seemed like a lengthier expedition i would've said go for tver first, but the affair with vitebsk seems it would be a quick one.
I was also thinking that way, but if there is now a legal ban on the Vitebskians raiding us again because of having been defeated, then maybe they have already been dealt with. An interesting decision for the King …
Kill whoever is easiest first. Unless the stronger one is directly threatening you now and has claims and such (and your ruler could die and leave you weak for the taking).
Normally, that would be the logoical course – and what Rurik has assumed. But if he can trust the Chancellor’s advice that Vitebsk is now legally barred from raiding us for five years, as we were in Italy, then that changes the calculus.
Rurik is now seriously considering the former. Alas, Samovlad is a vassal of King Dyre of Könugarðr, so I think my revenge would have to be limited to a return raid, which would then presumably earn his enmity. Another thing to consider.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
All: I will play the next phase in the next day or so and then the scroll trove (ie the screenshots) will be translated and edited for the next chapter. For now, thanks once again for the comments and advice.
And a special thanks to all readers – silent or commenting – who have taken this AAR past the 20,000 views mark. I very much appreciate it!
