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Finally caught up! :D

Questions (Chapters 19 and 20 combined)

Ch19 Q1: To stop, or not to stop? To stop the plot, or not to stop it? That is the question. Whether it is nobler in the mind to ignore the daggers and poisons of outrageous intrigue; to imprison the Queen or simply take action against a sea of plotting, and by opposing end it. Ay, there’s the rub! For who would bear the whips and scorns of time, the assassin’s wrong, the proud man’s contumely, the pangs of despised love, the law’s delay and the insolence of office? And thus, the native hue of resolution is sicklied over with the pale cast of thought, and King Rurik loses the name of action: Soft you now - fair Ingjerðr in Constantinople does reside. Queen and Wife, in your prayers be all my sins remembered! [With apologies to The Bard.]

Or, more briefly: Oh, what a mess – what should Rurik do, do you think?

PS: I will declare my devilish first thoughts up front: cry havoc and let slip the dogs of intrigue! Just let it run and try to ignore it as Rurik, stay above it or away in the field conquering. This could be tricky in a narrative sense, but I can slip and wriggle around that.

I'm not going to weigh in one way or another. Suffice it to say that this is one of those situations where my only real advice is "Consider your options, remember your plan, and go with your gut, whatever that tells you to do."

Ch20 Q1: Shipbuilding.
So, were I to build a shipyard in Ingria, it would start to produce ships for Nuyanza, that would form a fleet levy? That, because this is a tribal realm, he would not be obliged to supply if I called on them? I guess I will want to secure a demesne coastal county if I want to do much in that regard. Also, is there any naval combat in CK2? Or do they simply transport troops around? I can’t recall any specific naval combat in ‘ordinary’ CK2 AARs I’ve read. I’ve seen reference to ship raiding in an AGOT AAR (thanks Rufy_King), but without any specifics of ship-ship combat being mentioned. Any obvious stuff I may be missing on the naval side would be of interest.


Others have weighed in on how the unmodded game works, but having played the AGOT mod a fair bit myself, I can say that those events are basically part of a special scripted sequence exclusively for Drowned God rulers. "Raider" characters can't launch raids the standard way if they're vassals of somebody whose religion, culture, and government don't allow raiding (or at least they couldn't last time I checked; applies in both the base game and in mods), so the AGOT mod devs gave Drowned God rulers a special Intrigue decision to allow them to "Go Reaving" as a sort of workaround.

Ch20 Q2: Economic Advances.
Any views on which of these areas would be best to focus on next would be most welcome. There are bound to be some conditional requirements to make some of the benefits workable, while others may be more suitable for a young and expanding tribal realm.

As with @stnylan, I've never personally needed to get too involved in micromanaging tech advancement. If I have a nice fat wad of tech points and a desire / need to get an especially advantageous tech level (say, Military Organization) a few decades earlier than usual, then I might angle for that as a short-term goal, but in general the passive gains tend to work well enough for me to be perfectly comfortable with waiting for the prompts and spending my points on whatever's available.

One thing you may want to consider as a tribal ruler is that when you finally do go feudal, all of your tribal improvements are carried over at a 2:1 ratio (rounded down), e.g. a level 4 or 5 tribal improvement is converted to its feudal equivalent at level 2. It's a good idea to try to bring up any improvements you consider worth pursuing to at least level 2 before taking the plunge so that you don't lose them and have to start all over again.

The other questions have been pretty well covered already by others.

One thing I do want to say as an aside (though it does have indirect bearing on some of the questions): One of the things that keeps me coming back to CK2 time after time is the amount of leeway the game gives you due to its scope and depth. There's plenty of room to experiment, to see what works and what doesn't, and while the consequences may sometimes be painful they aren't necessarily always game-ending; short of losing all your land outright, running out of time, or allowing your dynasty to go extinct, there is almost no setback you can't eventually overcome or loss that you can't eventually rectify. There really is no "wrong" way to play, regardless of your level of engagement: If you want to set yourself some grand long-term goal that you work single-mindedly towards, you can do that; if you want to just let fortune take you where it will and snag opportunities as they come, you can do that; if you want to just hole up in your own little out-of-the-way corner of the world and watch the AI at work while you tend to your own proverbial garden, you can do that, too. And, of course, even if you start from the same position, you'll never have the same experience twice -- not exactly, anyway.

And one of the amazing things about this community is how willing we all are to share our experiences and the lessons we learn from them in creative and engaging ways :)

As always, hope this helps! :D
 
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Finally caught up! :D

And one of the amazing things about this community is how willing we all are to share our experiences and the lessons we learn from them in creative and engaging ways :)

As always, hope this helps! :D
Will respond to the specific advice - for which thanks very much :D - in the usual consolidated roundup but just wanted to quickly say thanks for catching up and for the more general points you made. Very true indeed. Always helps, whether about particular game points or general encouragement. :)
 
The Seventh Thing of Rurik's Reign - the Great Thing of March 875 (a summary of advice from Chapters 19 and 20)
The Seventh Thing of Rurik's Reign - the Great Thing of March 875 (a summary of advice from Chapters 19 and 20)

Well, so much excellent debate and advice, which I will (as has now become tradition) collate by topic and summarise for posterity and learning purposes below. Once again, thanks for the informed and (on the vexed topic of the Helgi Problem) lively debate!

ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ

Ch19 Q1: To stop, or not to stop? To stop the plot, or not to stop it? That is the question. Whether it is nobler in the mind to ignore the daggers and poisons of outrageous intrigue; to imprison the Queen or simply take action against a sea of plotting, and by opposing end it. Ay, there’s the rub! For who would bear the whips and scorns of time, the assassin’s wrong, the proud man’s contumely, the pangs of despised love, the law’s delay and the insolence of office? And thus, the native hue of resolution is sicklied over with the pale cast of thought, and King Rurik loses the name of action: Soft you now - fair Ingjerðr in Constantinople does reside. Queen and Wife, in your prayers be all my sins remembered! [With apologies to The Bard.]

Or, more briefly: Oh, what a mess – what should Rurik do, do you think?

PS: I will declare my devilish first thoughts up front: cry havoc and let slip the dogs of intrigue! Just let it run and try to ignore it as Rurik, stay above it or away in the field conquering. This could be tricky in a narrative sense, but I can slip and wriggle around that.


Don't stop them. There is no reason to go out of your way to spare your son and a few reasons why his death might be a good idea, just not enough for you to risk the king getting involved. To be honest, if you do end up controlling him later on, the first things you'll do are convert to the Norse religion and culture anyway so it's not too big of a problem.
Stop it. As you seem to be role playing I would suggest, no matter what the politics, he is your son and he seems to like you.
I am with @Eurasia here - go with the roleplay option. I think that makes the game more fun, generally.
With the player character as presented so far and all we know about Norse culture, religion and tribal law, I think it would be a coin toss. The ruler is popular enough and his faith is beyond reproach so I think everyone would go along with either one, whatever he decided. As to what he decides...there is nothing stopping you from favouring another son with inheritances if you want, which I think is something he'd do in this situation, where one son is clearly unsuitable for the realm he might rule one day. But I think that would be the choice, favour another son and let him live but diminished in rank (gradually of course) or let them plot and eventually succeed.

Since the percentage is low on the plot power, in game terms I would just leave them be because they probably will not succeed unless some more people get involved. Right now, there's no need to bribe or threaten people out of the plot...unless the success threshold is lower for tribal characters? Don't know. Check that.
Let it go. Ruriks is a zealous pagan. Family is all good and well, but Valhalla is forever. And his son ain't going there no matter what.
Love the debate in the Great Thing so far re the plot against Helgi: for me it is a close run decision. I am largely role playing, but the learning side is just as important and this my first substantive plot involvement. So from that perspective I’d be interested to see how it might fare if I let it run, but trying to stop a plot carries interest as well. No one seems to be advocating the more extreme option of actually trying to imprison the Queen - not that I’m surprised at that.

Please feel free to offer your views if you haven’t already, or to continue the discussion if you have and feel like following up. It’s all appreciated :)
Personally I generally only imprison plot leaders if I intend to shake them down for some ransom cash (A fine if you will).
Or revoke their titles :D
And in this case, I don’t I’d get much ransom for the Queen: Rurik could pay himself!
Well, this is peculiar. I admit that in the post I was challenged with the same question: to let a plot kill my elder, muslim converted son - I don't remember how that happened honestly -, and let my second, good commander, catholic son get his place or to stop it and probably see the empire fall. I was cruel AND zelous, so let them kill I said, and the heathen was dispatched ;) In your case, it boils down to wether or not you want to really get rid of him once and for all.
Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown...

The decision about his son must be tearing him up. Shame there isn’t an option to threaten your son with the plot to get him to convert eh?

Others have answered on the tactical stuff. Strategically it makes sense to let the plot play out. If he dies it won’t have been by the king’s Hand and the queen can hardly be blamed for protecting the interests of her son’s...
Yeah, from a gameplay perspective, definitely let it happen. From an RP perspective, it's rough.
I'm not going to weigh in one way or another. Suffice it to say that this is one of those situations where my only real advice is "Consider your options, remember your plan, and go with your gut, whatever that tells you to do."
Wow, these are all great comments and valid views. The balance of views between the two principal courses pretty accurately mirror Rurik’s thoughts on this very difficult matter. I will not give away his decision at this point and wait until the next chapter to see what he will do – haven’t quite decided myself yet! But the final decision will be a fine balance of game-driven characteristics and the strategy for the game – noting that too is part of Rurik’s role.

The one thing you can be sure about is that he will indeed agonise on this, whatever he decides, something or someone is likely to feel betrayed. It is the nature of the situation. There will also be one ‘surprise’ that may have a bearing on the decision too. But in which direction?

ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ

Ch20 Q1: Shipbuilding. So, were I to build a shipyard in Ingria, it would start to produce ships for Nuyanza, that would form a fleet levy? That, because this is a tribal realm, he would not be obliged to supply if I called on them? I guess I will want to secure a demesne coastal county if I want to do much in that regard. Also, is there any naval combat in CK2? Or do they simply transport troops around? I can’t recall any specific naval combat in ‘ordinary’ CK2 AARs I’ve read. I’ve seen reference to ship raiding in an AGOT AAR (thanks Rufy_King), but without any specifics of ship-ship combat being mentioned. Any obvious stuff I may be missing on the naval side would be of interest.

Yes you need to get your own coastal province. In feudal lands, where your personal land is limited, the best bet I see to get two duchies next to each other that have as much coastal land as possible so you can have the biggest navy in your realm belong to you personally. There is no ship to ship combat in CKII (which is BULLSH-angry rant cut off) so literally you just need to focus on numbers. How many troops do you have and how many boats are you going to need to move them? That sort of thing, because it's the fastest way of moving around AND you're a Viking, which means you can sail up rivers, unlike everyone else in the game, giving you huge advantages say, in the Rhine and Danube regions but also in India.
I would point out that the future landscape of Rus has a lot of rivers and ships are a great place to withdraw to when larger enemy armies are trying to get you. Armies can't be attacked while on a ship. And no, no naval combat, they are just transportation.
Get coastal provinces ASAP as others have said. Ships are pure transports in CKII.
Yes, Nuyanza would be the one to gain from the shipyard. If you were to build a tribe on the coast, and then there a shipyard, I guess theoretically you would be the holder of it... but that's quite costly for a few more ships. If you want more ships the safest bet is conquer a new coast.

As for ship fighting... let's just say that's one of the few things people ask from the beginning and they never added - it may even be the only one now that I think about it...
I'm usually playing in the Mediterranean, and from a perspective of troop transport vassal coastal counties seem sufficient to move my troops. For that matter, it's the cities in the counties that seem to really provide ships. For a norse tribal character, that may be different. And as the others have mentioned, there's no naval combat.
Others have weighed in on how the unmodded game works, but having played the AGOT mod a fair bit myself, I can say that those events are basically part of a special scripted sequence exclusively for Drowned God rulers. "Raider" characters can't launch raids the standard way if they're vassals of somebody whose religion, culture, and government don't allow raiding (or at least they couldn't last time I checked; applies in both the base game and in mods), so the AGOT mod devs gave Drowned God rulers a special Intrigue decision to allow them to "Go Reaving" as a sort of workaround.
Thanks – I think the info here is very clear and consistent: no ship fighting; ships very useful for Norse Raiders; need to get coastal province(s) within the demesne to make it worthwhile to build them. The problem with going outright now for those coastal provinces (ie as advocated by PVT Ascoobis and suggested by others) is not the concept: it absolutely makes sense. With forming Rus as the current priority and trying to form Rus ASAP – as much as possible within Rurik’s lifetime, taking advantage of his boss stats and inevitable succession setbacks – none of the Rus provinces needed from here are coastal. And for now, the 40 event ships Rurik started with seem ample for any raiding purposes likely in the reasonably near future.

I think shipbuilding will be borne in mind, but maybe as a follow-on objective after Rus has been safely formed. Perhaps as a precursor to a great period of raiding and maybe trying to secure the Norse holy sites to reform the religion.

ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ

Ch20 Q2: Economic Advances. Any views on which of these areas would be best to focus on next would be most welcome. There are bound to be some conditional requirements to make some of the benefits workable, while others may be more suitable for a young and expanding tribal realm.

Always grtvimproved keeps First because that's the source of most of your personal income and levy upgrades in individual counties. Then castle and town and so on. Basically get the stuff that helps you first then your vassals.
Do you own a lot of Towns? I would lean towards Towns UNLESS you have more Keeps. But money is always welcome.
I don't worry overmuch about the "best", right or wrong as that may be. I figure over time to get them all. Money is always good of course, but troops are very useful too.
It makes no difference at this point as you've almost enough points for both towns and keeps. First one, then the other. It won't be more than a couple years if that, barely enough time for an upgrade to finish.
Well, if you want ships, you should go for the Trade Practices. Otherwise I suggest Castle Infrastructures.
Do you have the techs to get your tribal holdings all the max buildings? Make sure of that. Past that point, I'd go for keeps, unless you think you might try to go merchant republic (which, if you do, you'll need your primary holding to be on the coast to avoid an instant game over).
As with @stnylan, I've never personally needed to get too involved in micromanaging tech advancement. If I have a nice fat wad of tech points and a desire / need to get an especially advantageous tech level (say, Military Organization) a few decades earlier than usual, then I might angle for that as a short-term goal, but in general the passive gains tend to work well enough for me to be perfectly comfortable with waiting for the prompts and spending my points on whatever's available.

One thing you may want to consider as a tribal ruler is that when you finally do go feudal, all of your tribal improvements are carried over at a 2:1 ratio (rounded down), e.g. a level 4 or 5 tribal improvement is converted to its feudal equivalent at level 2. It's a good idea to try to bring up any improvements you consider worth pursuing to at least level 2 before taking the plunge so that you don't lose them and have to start all over again.
All helpful views. It seems in CK2, unlike many games (Paradox or otherwise) one is not allowed to attain any next-level techs until all those in the level below have been researched. So, especially for the slower-researched ones, it’s more just a matter of temporary priority/sequencing, if there’s something you want particularly quickly. For now, in this area, I think it will be town buildings and infrastructure, but this will not be sweated too much.

ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ

Ch20 Q3: Alliances. I will check the ‘defensive pagan’ characteristic for Tver to see if they too can summon a pious horde, as Pskov did – I suspect they can. But have a read the alliance mechanism right re the anti-Hungary pact? An attack by Rurik would not trigger it, is my assumption.

Right. There is a pact against Hungary (good) but anyone attacking them or their allies won't trigger it. It's jut wars of aggression declared by Hungary that will trigger them. Everyone else plays as normal in terms of allies and enemies.
Can't help - I try to stay away from Alliances in my game play - they always call me in and make me do all the work.
Alliances ... well like in EU4 Alliances can very much be a two-edged sword. Sometimes useful, sometimes like a millstone around your neck.
Q20.3. If i'm getting the gist right, a Defensive Pact against Hungary is what's going on here. That only triggers if Hungary attacks a Pact member. Your machinations don't. (Hilariously, they don't view you as a threat!)
The Defensive Pact is a sort of check to avoid indiscriminate blobbing, therefore it only works against the target that blobbed too much (in this case, Hungary). You shouldn't get one against you for a while, but eventually, as you grow, smaller lords will form one against you, I am sure of that. I have never been the biggest fan of this mechanic, because it's hard for me to overlook the fact that if you blob enough you get an intercultural, interreligious defensive pact that spans from Western Europe to the Middle East, which is pretty antihistoric. While I admit it can make the game challenging, and sometimes I keep it active, I tend more to deactivate it.

Anyway, to sum it up, don't worry, it's not for you, it's for Hungary.
AFAIK, you've read it right.
Thanks all, thought so but it’s good to be on firm ground.

ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ

Ch20 Q4: Tribal Armies. Does it sound plausible that the young High Chief of Mari could call on a tribal horde under these circumstances? Or is there some mechanic that prevents him doing so in response to a war of claim, as opposed to him launching one himself? I can of course find out by experiment and counteract it with my own call, but it would be useful to have some indications in advance.

I don't know but I imagine that the kid can't or won't do it, not without risking quite a bit. Prestige keeps tribal lands togetherness and he can't get much as a youth. Burning through his supply might destabilise his realm. Even if he does summon the horde. He might...but so can you. I think if you're wanting to clean and clear The Rus borders then going after small bits of other realms so they don't steal the claim outright from you is a good idea but it's of course not going to net you a source much as getting entire smaller realms within your kingdom to obey.
Can't help - have played Tribal once and didn't do too well.
Q20.4. If you attack him and he's losing badly he'll burn every ounce of piety and prestige he can in a futile bid to stop you. It goes that way every time in my experience. I've learned to bake tribal armies into my pre-war calculations, it's safer that way.
Clarification on Chapter 20 question 4.

Prestige can be spent on a Tribal Army by any tribal chieftain at any time while they are at war. Attacker or defender is irrelevant. This is an ability of all tribes regardless of religion.

Defensive Pagans spending piety for men is a religious bonus available exclusively to those religions and can only be summoned when attacked.

I suddenly realized I misread the question. He'll not attack you in a counter-claim because he doesn't need to. Tribal Armies can be raised on defense right alongside devout armies.
I... don't think he would. He probably can, but it's hard to imagine the AI to burn his own stock of prestige.
I think it remains safe to assume that the worst could happen and be prepared for it, but not be paralysed by fear. So long as the worst case is manageable, then forward-ho, to Blut und Schlacht!

ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ

General Comments

Overall you're doing well thus far with steady expansion and really only a couple unforced errors. But, that's the best way to learn and become a better player.

Until next episode!
Thank you, appreciated. :)
Finally caught up!
Again, my heartfelt thanks for the effort you (and all dear readers) take in busy lives to show such support. :cool:
One thing I do want to say as an aside (though it does have indirect bearing on some of the questions): One of the things that keeps me coming back to CK2 time after time is the amount of leeway the game gives you due to its scope and depth. There's plenty of room to experiment, to see what works and what doesn't, and while the consequences may sometimes be painful they aren't necessarily always game-ending; short of losing all your land outright, running out of time, or allowing your dynasty to go extinct, there is almost no setback you can't eventually overcome or loss that you can't eventually rectify. There really is no "wrong" way to play, regardless of your level of engagement: If you want to set yourself some grand long-term goal that you work single-mindedly towards, you can do that; if you want to just let fortune take you where it will and snag opportunities as they come, you can do that; if you want to just hole up in your own little out-of-the-way corner of the world and watch the AI at work while you tend to your own proverbial garden, you can do that, too. And, of course, even if you start from the same position, you'll never have the same experience twice -- not exactly, anyway.

And one of the amazing things about this community is how willing we all are to share our experiences and the lessons we learn from them in creative and engaging ways :)

As always, hope this helps! :D
All of this has the ring of both truth and wisdom, especially about the community we are part of. In a way, it was the inspiration for doing this as both an ordinary gameplay and narrative AAR with a complementary learning aspect. And I have definitely not been disappointed in the wonderful and generous responses along the way! :)

ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ

Again, thanks one and all for your time, knowledge and support. But Rurik will now have to search his soul, his Faith, his ambitions and his feelings for his family to decide on what to do – or not to do – next. Oh, the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune! :confused::eek:
 
All helpful views. It seems in CK2, unlike many games (Paradox or otherwise) one is not allowed to attain any next-level techs until all those in the level below have been researched. So, especially for the slower-researched ones, it’s more just a matter of temporary priority/sequencing, if there’s something you want particularly quickly. For now, in this area, I think it will be town buildings and infrastructure, but this will not be sweated too much.

Unless I am very mistaken, this is actually incorrect. You can choose to neglect technological areas within the given categories if you so choose, but this early on they're cheap enough and you can get enough tech points that you may as well get everything. Later on it may be worthwhile to skip some technologies and merely get them via natural spread.

Incidentally, CK2's tech system makes me very happy. I like how it's county-specific, representing the gaining of local knowledge. I really like to think of the spying missions as consulting with experts, or even hiring them to teach your locals some tricks. And they learn from their neighbors independently of your efforts.
 
Unless I am very mistaken, this is actually incorrect. You can choose to neglect technological areas within the given categories if you so choose, but this early on they're cheap enough and you can get enough tech points that you may as well get everything. Later on it may be worthwhile to skip some technologies and merely get them via natural spread.
OK, this is worth me following up then: I made the comment as, with the military techs, the only options it would allow me to click were those level one techs I hadn’t already researched. And that was with enough accumulated points for 2-3 to be done. So my assumption (which may well be incorrect) was that you had to research them all to then make the next level available.

But it may be that the points required for the second level advances are a lot more than for first level (ie scalable by level, which would be reasonable and not uncommon as a game mechanic). And so were greyed out because I didn’t have sufficient points for L2, even though I had enough for multiple L1. Given this is the first time I’ve got to this point in CK2, it didn’t occur to me. The difference with tech in CK2 to say HOI3 (which I’m far more familiar with), the Civilisation series etc is that in CK2 you buy them in arrears, after you have earned the points, rather than nominating the research and then working your way there.

In those other games, the tech points required are scalable as well, but it appears as a selectable option to click on so long as you have researched the prerequisite levels or precursor techs. It just then takes a long time to get there. Seems I made an incorrect assumption here: if so another valuable learning point I’m glad I put out there if it turns out I assumed wrongly. Thanks for pointing it out!

Incidentally, CK2's tech system makes me very happy. I like how it's county-specific, representing the gaining of local knowledge. I really like to think of the spying missions as consulting with experts, or even hiring them to teach your locals some tricks. And they learn from their neighbors independently of your efforts.
Interesting, wasn’t aware of that variance between countries (given this is my first). I agree, that is a nice little nuance.

Many thanks for this follow-up. I will take it as a discussion after the Thing with the Chancellor/Lawspeaker, who therefore seeks to investigate further and amends his advice to the King! :)
 
OK, this is worth me following up then: I made the comment as, with the military techs, the only options it would allow me to click were those level one techs I hadn’t already researched. And that was with enough accumulated points for 2-3 to be done. So my assumption (which may well be incorrect) was that you had to research them all to then make the next level available.

But it may be that the points required for the second level advances are a lot more than for first level (ie scalable by level, which would be reasonable and not uncommon as a game mechanic). And so were greyed out because I didn’t have sufficient points for L2, even though I had enough for multiple L1. Given this is the first time I’ve got to this point in CK2, it didn’t occur to me. The difference with tech in CK2 to say HOI3 (which I’m far more familiar with), the Civilisation series etc is that in CK2 you buy them in arrears, after you have earned the points, rather than nominating the research and then working your way there.

This is it exactly. The exact formulas for everything regarding tech research and spread are (as always) available on the wiki, but the key take-away points are basically as follows:

  • The base cost for the next level is directly correlated to how many levels you already have, such that, all other factors being equal, each level is proportionately more expensive than the last.
  • Each level also has a certain "Base Year"; trying to unlock it ahead of that year will often cost you considerably more.
  • In addition to spending tech points, technologies also advance by passive spread over time, both between neighbors and among provinces in the same demesne. In addition to allowing tech levels to advance on their own, this passive spread also helps bring down the cost of the next level being worked towards.
  • The three most important variables that affect a ruler's tech point generation rate are the rank of their highest title, their Learning score, and the score of the other skill relevant to each of the three research categories. Certain buildings also provide small passive bonuses over time to the whole realm, and a few events will provide single lump-sum boosts to the points pool as well, but those three factors right there are going to be your prime movers for most of the game, especially in the early stages of the game and / or out in the under-developed hinterlands of the map.
  • On that note, counts and barons do almost no real research of their own; most of their advancement is going to come from passive spread.
  • Spending points only directly affects your capital province immediately; the effects then spread to the rest of your demesne by passive advancement.
  • Only your ruler's skills affect tech point generation, but your councilor's skills do affect passive spread. Additionally, any vassals you have at duke-tier and above will also generate points to spend on advances in their own capitals, which will then contribute to the passive spread of those techs throughout the rest of your realm.
 
This is it exactly. The exact formulas for evrerything regarding tech research and spread are (as always) available on the wiki, but the key take-away points are basically as follows:

  • The base cost for the next level is directly correlated to how many levels you already have, such that, all other factors being equal, each level is proportionately more expensive than the last.
  • Each level also has a certain "Base Year"; trying to unlock it ahead of that year will often cost you considerably more.
  • In addition to spending tech points, technologies also advance by passive spread over time, both between neighbors and among provinces in the same demesne. In addition to allowing tech levels to advance on their own, this passive spread also helps bring down the cost of the next level being worked towards.
  • The three most important variables that affect a ruler's tech point generation rate are the rank of their highest title, their Learning score, and the score of the other skill relevant to each of the three research categories. Certain buildings also provide small passive bonuses over time to the whole realm, and a few events will provide single lump-sum boosts to the points pool as well, but those three factors right there are going to be your prime movers for most of the game, especially in the early stages of the game and / or out in the under-developed hinterlands of the map.
  • On that note, counts and barons do almost no real research of their own; most of their advancement is going to come from passive spread.
  • Spending points only directly affects your capital province immediately; the effects then spread to the rest of your demesne by passive advancement.
  • Only your ruler's skills affect tech point generation, but your councilor's skills do affect passive spread. Additionally, any vassals you have at duke-tier and above will also generate points to spend on advances in their own capitals, which will then contribute to the passive spread of those techs throughout the rest of your realm.

This. You can see the exact cost (and breakdown) by hovering over the relevant buttons and waiting for the tooltips to appear.
 
This is it exactly. The exact formulas for everything regarding tech research and spread are (as always) available on the wiki, but the key take-away points are basically as follows:

  • The base cost for the next level is directly correlated to how many levels you already have, such that, all other factors being equal, each level is proportionately more expensive than the last.
  • Each level also has a certain "Base Year"; trying to unlock it ahead of that year will often cost you considerably more.
  • In addition to spending tech points, technologies also advance by passive spread over time, both between neighbors and among provinces in the same demesne. In addition to allowing tech levels to advance on their own, this passive spread also helps bring down the cost of the next level being worked towards.
  • The three most important variables that affect a ruler's tech point generation rate are the rank of their highest title, their Learning score, and the score of the other skill relevant to each of the three research categories. Certain buildings also provide small passive bonuses over time to the whole realm, and a few events will provide single lump-sum boosts to the points pool as well, but those three factors right there are going to be your prime movers for most of the game, especially in the early stages of the game and / or out in the under-developed hinterlands of the map.
  • On that note, counts and barons do almost no real research of their own; most of their advancement is going to come from passive spread.
  • Spending points only directly affects your capital province immediately; the effects then spread to the rest of your demesne by passive advancement.
  • Only your ruler's skills affect tech point generation, but your councilor's skills do affect passive spread. Additionally, any vassals you have at duke-tier and above will also generate points to spend on advances in their own capitals, which will then contribute to the passive spread of those techs throughout the rest of your realm.
This. You can see the exact cost (and breakdown) by hovering over the relevant buttons and waiting for the tooltips to appear.
Again, my thanks. All makes perfect sense. My own research on techs has just been elevated a level by a similar process of absorption! :D The good thing about game newbiness is always learning new and useful stuff every time. Especially when you have so many helpful contributors to ease the learning curve. :)
 
Again, my thanks. All makes perfect sense. My own research on techs has just been elevated a level by a similar process of absorption! :D The good thing about game newbiness is always learning new and useful stuff every time. Especially when you have so many helpful contributors to ease the learning curve. :)

One more thing (and another reason to clump your personal land together) with tech is that you research it at the capital county and it spreads outwards from there (assuming it has a higher level tech to export). It moves faster through your own lands in my experience (so long as they are connected together) which means that if you have a big group of counties owned in the middle of your empire or on the coast, you can ensure that the tech you want gets moved across the empire as fast as possible. Why would you want to give your vassals higher tech levels and thus help them get stronger for free? Well they can't build those improvements you desperately want without that tech...and you are going to want them to build ports if you want ships and towns if you want cash. At one point I Ended up buying everyone in the home islands their own port so I had enough transports to move around with. You will never face that problem of most of your men being located on islands but when time comes to move through larger or mountainous regions, you're going to want ships to speed up movement (like most of the eastern Russian counties and all of Scandinavia for example).
 
One more thing (and another reason to clump your personal land together) with tech is that you research it at the capital county and it spreads outwards from there (assuming it has a higher level tech to export). It moves faster through your own lands in my experience (so long as they are connected together) which means that if you have a big group of counties owned in the middle of your empire or on the coast, you can ensure that the tech you want gets moved across the empire as fast as possible. Why would you want to give your vassals higher tech levels and thus help them get stronger for free? Well they can't build those improvements you desperately want without that tech...and you are going to want them to build ports if you want ships and towns if you want cash. At one point I Ended up buying everyone in the home islands their own port so I had enough transports to move around with. You will never face that problem of most of your men being located on islands but when time comes to move through larger or mountainous regions, you're going to want ships to speed up movement (like most of the eastern Russian counties and all of Scandinavia for example).

(Emphasis added) There's a reason for this: The "adjacent province" bonuses and the "same demesne" bonuses actually stack, meaning you get the benefit of both if your demesne is contiguous.
 
One more thing (and another reason to clump your personal land together) with tech is that you research it at the capital county and it spreads outwards from there (assuming it has a higher level tech to export). It moves faster through your own lands in my experience (so long as they are connected together) which means that if you have a big group of counties owned in the middle of your empire or on the coast, you can ensure that the tech you want gets moved across the empire as fast as possible. Why would you want to give your vassals higher tech levels and thus help them get stronger for free? Well they can't build those improvements you desperately want without that tech...and you are going to want them to build ports if you want ships and towns if you want cash. At one point I Ended up buying everyone in the home islands their own port so I had enough transports to move around with. You will never face that problem of most of your men being located on islands but when time comes to move through larger or mountainous regions, you're going to want ships to speed up movement (like most of the eastern Russian counties and all of Scandinavia for example).
(Emphasis added) There's a reason for this: The "adjacent province" bonuses and the "same demesne" bonuses actually stack, meaning you get the benefit of both if your demesne is contiguous.
Thanks guys. Fortunately, in this game most of my demesne counties are indeed linked. Mainly luck, partly management; but when it comes time to readjust holdings, I will keep that centrality in mind. From AARs I’ve been reading and experience so far in this first game, it also makes sense militarily. Especially if (or more applicably, when) the vassals get restless enough to rebel!
 
The Seventh Thing of Rurik's Reign - the Great Thing of March 875 (a summary of advice from Chapters 19 and 20)
And for now, the 40 event ships Rurik started with seem ample for any raiding purposes likely in the reasonably near future.

I think shipbuilding will be borne in mind, but maybe as a follow-on objective after Rus has been safely formed. Perhaps as a precursor to a great period of raiding and maybe trying to secure the Norse holy sites to reform the religion.

Note that the 40 event ships will vanish when Rurik dies.
This may change how you prioritize getting a coastal province -- if you don't have ships you're limited to raiding counties that border your realm, which can make money very difficult to come by if you don't border anyone wealthy.
 
Note that the 40 event ships will vanish when Rurik dies.
This may change how you prioritize getting a coastal province -- if you don't have ships you're limited to raiding counties that border your realm, which can make money very difficult to come by if you don't border anyone wealthy.
Welcome StevenJ. It appears that your comment on my humble AAR is your first on the forums (unless you are a returning veteran, as is sometimes the case). Either way, it is an honour! :)

And if that fleet event limit is the case, what a useful comment it is! :oops: On permutations, what would happen if, for example, Rurik died while raiding overseas? Would the fleet disappear and any troops be stranded? Or if they were indeed at sea when such happened - can you at least get back to shore?

Even if I started acquiring coastal provinces now and building shipyards, I assume it would take me a good deal of time to build a decent enough fleet for proper raiding (my feeling is 15-20 ships at least). I will search the wiki for more detail on this event fleet, but if you or others have any further insights, they would be useful (and to any others who may now or later use this AAR as an info source).
 
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Note that the 40 event ships will vanish when Rurik dies.
This may change how you prioritize getting a coastal province -- if you don't have ships you're limited to raiding counties that border your realm, which can make money very difficult to come by if you don't border anyone wealthy.

The best way to get around this, is to search for unlanded adult males willing to join your court. If they have money and no heirs, their gold passes to their lord when they die. So just invite them to your court. You can either play the waiting game or speed up the process by assassination.

I actually use this to great effect when playing a Catholic Feudal lord. I usually have 20k or so with nothing to spend it on within a century or so.
 
Chapter 21: Family Matters (4 March to 5 July 875)
Chapter 21: Family Matters (4 March to 5 July 875)

Previously, on Blut und Schlacht … the King ponders a murder conspiracy at home against his son and heir; that son’s continuing religious defiance at a time when conversion of a Slavic land to the True Norse Faith is paramount; and continuing troop shortages following the ‘Lost Sheep’ episode at the end of the War for Zaozerye. The most recent war - to bring Chud and Vologda into the realm - was highly successful, but it means Rurik must now control and extremely unhappy new vassal. In this context, the next step in the Dream of Rus is being considered.

ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ

March 875

Our story of the Rurikid Chronicles resumes on 5 March 875 CE, when Gumarich der Schreiber had just completed his record of Rurik’s Seventh Thing – the Great Thing of Nygarðr (the city is better known today as Novgorod) – held by Chancellor and Lawspeaker Hrörekr Ölfüss in the King’s holding the day before. He had completed a secret record, taken from private meetings in the margins of the Thing (or þing), which he had just handed to King Rurik. It dealt with varying views of the learned regarding Prince Helgi and rumours of the source of the plot against his life.

“My King, herewith enclosed, in good plain Norse, is a gathering together of the views expressed on this most delicate matter. None present [in character], excepting myself and the Chancellor, were aware of the reputed identity source of the accused plotter. This represents their collected advice, which was very evenly divided between seeking to put a stop to the plot or ignoring it and letting it continue. None advocated imprisoning the Queen.”

Rurik accepted the scroll reluctantly, as if handling something noisome and distasteful – as well he might. It appeared to him this whole issue resembled the “poisoned chalice” he had heard those Christian heathens burble on about once.

“Very well, Gumarich, I will take this, read it and ponder. As before, speak to no-one but Hrörekr on this. Before the Gods, you too are the people I trust most in this world.”
Gumarich nods and makes to leave, then pauses, remembering something.

“Oh, My King, Godi þorolfr has sent a strange man, a visitor from our Norse homelands, with a request that you give him audience. The man is hooded and – I might say – mysterious. He has the air of a mystic about him.”

“Very well, send him in. I will consider this other matter presently.” In truth, the King is happy to have an excuse to himself to put it off.

ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ

A Mystical Visitor

The hooded visitor enters the King’s chamber. This is clearly a wandering Völva. Rurik wonders whether he might have come to take up the vacant post in his court.

“King Rurik, I thank you for seeing me. My name is Þjálfi – I am one of the great God Thor’s servants in this world. I bring new knowledge from our northern homelands of mystical secrets that may aid the administration of your realm and its conversion from its heathen ways to the True Norse Faith.”

“I see, good Þjálfi. This is great news. Perhaps you would consider residing in my court to help spread this knowledge as it should be. I have sore need of a learned Völva to help in our mission.”

“Alas, I am unable to tarry. My own task is to spread word of these mystical secrets among all the Norse rulers of the world. And to bring warning of a great danger too. The Christian heathens are also stirring in their foul nests. Beware their preaching – these ‘monks’, as they call themselves, purvey their falsehoods even as my brothers and sisters bring the truth to all good Norse people and those who would choose to cleave to our mighty gods. I suggest slaying these monks on sight. They are an even greater danger than the Slavic heretics who infest these lands with their false gods.”

The two talk long into the night of the many branches of great World Tree Yggdrasil and its meaning for men. Then Þjálfi prepares to depart in the early hours of the morning, before daybreak. But not before leaving some papers for Rurik’s hands and new thoughts for his mind, redoubling his commitment to the propagation of his chosen faith. No matter what - or who - the obstacle may be.

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The Norse World Tree, Yggdrasil.

This interlude of course represents the introduction of the Monks and Mystics DLC into the game. The implications of this – for both gameplay and narrative – will be brought out further below.

“Thanks to you, oh learned Þjálfi, you have given me much to ponder. About my lands, my people and my own family. Go in strength and may Thor protect you and strengthen your arm.”

“My thanks for being such an avid and zealous listener, good King Rurik. Before I leave, I would leave you warning of a strange and mysterious group I have become aware of. I would counsel you to steer clear of their radical beliefs and dark practices. They too follow our Norse gods in their own way – but along their path lies both power and madness.”

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Ch21 Q1: Fellowship of Hel. These guys don’t look very nice! I googled a little about them. Now, because the options for joining are not available, does that indicate that they won’t be? Or might it be they just haven’t invited me yet?

Hang on, if I can find out how to review the settings … *googles and gets tip how to, that tiny exclamation mark in the top left corner* … OK, here we go.

I thought I’d de-selected a few of these, but maybe I didn’t … anyway, it’s all part of the learning mayhem. And I didn’t get WoL or M&M until after the game started anyway. Too late to change anything now, so soldier on it is.

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ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ

A Father and Son Chat

An entry in Rurik’s personal journal allows us to reconstruct the substance of a conversation he had with his son the day after the Great Thing. It cannot have been an easy one, but then the times were hard and decisions harder.

“Father, I believe you know why I need to see you.”

“Go on son, tell me your reasons, in your own words.”

“Very well. Your scheming harridan of a wife has compassed my murder! Before the Chancellor as witness, the cur who tried to cut me down confessed. At which point I claimed his head, to use his skull as a piss-pot. I demand the justice you are so renowned for. I know she is with child and the mother of my four half-siblings, so I do not demand her death. Removal as your Spymaster and imprisonment will be sufficient!”

“I see son, these are grave charges and I have no doubt a foul attempt was made on your life. We must get to the bottom of it. But what other proof do you have of the Queen’s guilt in this matter, other than the uncorroborated confession of a foul backstabber? Quite apart from the division in our house this would proclaim to all should this be played out for all to see, it would be a very difficult thing for me to do personally to the mother of all my other children – soon to be five in number.”

“And Helgi, you know the Queen is in far-away Byzantium – a difficult position from which to organise a conspiracy in remote Nygarðr. Do you have any evidence of such co-conspirators here, closer to home? Proof that this cur was not either lying to protect his real master, or mislead by some plotter or intermediary to make him believe it was the Queen in order to deflect suspicion from its true source? Did this fould would-be murderer get his orders directly from the Queen herself?”

“Well, he did not confess any of that. In my anger, I did strike off his head in great wroth as soon as he made it known what the true source of the plot was. And whatever you may say in her defence, I have no doubt myself that she was behind it. After all, she has cause in her own eyes, for her own children. She stands to gain the most, for her children. I cannot believe any denial she may make, nor forgive her this despicable attempt on my life.”

“Please remember Helgi, your brothers and sisters are no less my children than you are. And I too am suspicious of the Queen. But I have had this matter investigated further since I gained news of it. I must tell you that, while I agree Ingjerðr has obvious cause, she is not alone in such within the court. We have discussed this before: race and religion lie at the heart of dissension in the realm. The Norse courtiers would like you far more if you were to adopt the true Norse faith, while the Slavic and Finnish lords regard you (as they do me) a foreigner, giving you no succour there either: almost anyone in the realm could have contemplated your downfall and can easily attempt to sheet the blame home on the Queen. You have a foot in each camp, but it does you no good; it merely splits you apart. You are Norse; adopt the true faith – my faith – and many of these problems would melt away. Renounce these false Slavic gods of your mother. Then we can put any plot in its place and secure your ascendancy!”

“I cannot renounce my religion, father. And despite your words, I still believe the Queen to be the one behind all this.”

“Well, son, she is the Spymaster and, whether guilty of this crime or not, will already have heard of its attempt and thus be prepared. She is far away and out of my immediate reach. Should I try to arrest her, she may escape, whether innocent or guilty. And if she is innocent, I will have done a terrible injustice to her, the affection of my children and our reputation in the great realm we are trying to unite. I cannot afford that. We cannot afford that.”

After a short pause, Rurik continues. “I will write to the Queen, put these accusations plainly to her and see what her response is. Meanwhile, you must take extra precautions while you do your duty as Marshal. And consider my request seriously: your place as heir can only be truly secured if you renounce these Slavic gods and help in the great work of making this a truly Norse country, in religion as well as culture. Your continued refusal to do so undermines my life’s work and my authority; it gives encouragement to the Slavs and Finns. I beg you, reconsider. And say nothing of this foul conspiracy to any other: if word of it gets out broadly then it will undermine our authority.”

“Do not answer now Helgi but think on it. I head soon to rejoin the troops on the border of Tver, though have not yet finally decided our next course of action. It will be either to attack them soon, to wait for our levies to build or perhaps even to muster another raid instead. I have very much to think on, as do you. Keep me informed regularly of our levy strength while I am in the field.”

“I can’t say this pleases me father. Ingjerðr is a snake. I will keep you informed of our training efforts. As to the other, I can give you no promise, but remain at your command in all other things.”
Helgi nods with respect and leaves. Looking apprehensively into every shadowy corner he passes.

Rurik writes his letter to the Queen, as he has promised Helgi. As he does so, he cannot help but think his son is right about her. But there are other, bigger questions at stake. Justice against glory. The love of a father for all his children. Respect for the mother of most of those children and his Spymaster, but disgust that she would resort to murder to solve the problems. Most of all, he harbours the terrible knowledge that he himself is countenancing inaction in the face of a continuing threat to his son. He does not encourage the plot but does order Ingjerðr to stop it. He also says nothing to Alfgeir nor Dan: if he does wish to move against them, best they remain unaware of his knowledge of their involvement. And if not … well, perhaps a blind eye may solve a difficult problem for him.

Then he tries to banish all such thoughts as he prepares his mind and body to return to the regiment.

ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ

Meanwhile, the King’s Regiment makes its way back from Chud to Torzhok, where Rurik will rejoin it.

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And Rurik consults his Chancellor once again on the realm’s inheritance laws. He understands the sequencing of inheritance but asks about the elective aspect.

“Hrörekr, Helgi has all seven votes of the realm’s noble lords for the succession. Even mine. Are these votes bound or is there some way they may be changed?”

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“I must check with the learned of the realm, My Liege. It is something of an imponderable mystery to me. I’m not sure if it has to do with any alternative being of maturity, whether being a son or yours, or the same religion or culture as the elector (when they have a choice) helps determine the outcome. Or it is just completely random.”

“Well then, find out man!”

Ch21 Q2: Elective Succession. OK, there is no way I’ve been able to discover to change Rurik’s vote for heir or to persuade others to do so. For example, by shifting preference to one of the younger sons. Anything I’m missing there? Or is the ‘elective’ part of this a bit of a misnomer. I understand from previous advice about the way the gavelkind usually does pan out, but just want to see if there’s anything about the ‘elective’ part I’m missing. A quick google and look at the wiki and other forum posts didn’t shed much light and revealed conflicting opinions.

“And call the Council together again, I wish to pass on some new instructions before I head off to the south.”

“At once, My Liege.”

ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ

The Council Meets Again

Gumarich made minutes of the King’s Council meeting of 27 March 875.

“First, I will deal with some unfinished matters from our last meeting. Steward Alfgeir, I have considered the advice of the recent Great Thing carefully. Proceed with the development of our knowledge of town buildings.”

“Yes, My King.”

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“Hrörekr, now that we have brought the unwilling Miemo into the realm, he is of course badly disposed towards me. It is no surprise he wishes for independence. Specifically, I wish advice on how strong his claims are and the import of this ‘threat’ you have reported he poses.”

“I will gather more specific advice and provide it to you, My Liege.”

“See that you do.”

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Ch21 Q3: Independence Threat. OK, under Factions, it shows Miemo for Independence, but no members or strength indication. By checking again a little later, I realised this was because at that early stage, Miemo didn’t have any men yet! A month or two later, when he had a couple of dozen, it was at less than 1%vs Liege. Under Threat, it gives a rating of 80%, but doesn’t explain what this means and nothing appears on mouse-over. Does it relate to or affect the strength of the faction at all, or is there anything else about the two different aspects I need to be aware of?

“Now, I must proclaim to you that, at our Godi’s suggestion, I have spoken with a great mystic and proponent of Thor’s mission and that of the God’s as a whole. His words and writings have revealed new ways of running my realm to me and these I now impart to you, as they affect the range of tasks I may give you. Please, each of you take note of the following. I may call upon you to carry these missions out at some time, soon or in the future.”

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“In that light, my dear Godi, I would appreciate your advice on how, if at all, I may be able to measure the rate at which our great mission to convert the realm, starting with the county of Holmgarðr itself, to the true Norse faith. You have provided me this map which shows where the Finnish [green] and Slavic [beige] religions prevail and where these differ with our state Norse faith [grey stripes].”
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“But I would like to know the general proportions of these religions within each county, if such is within the scope of your knowledge.”

“I will consult with my scribes at the temple, My Good King, but am not aware of such myself.”

Ch21 Q4: Religious Proportions by county? So, is there any way to find out how each religion sits within each county? I tried mouse-overs in the religious screen, the ledger and in the county screen (which only said what the religion and culture was, not whether there were any proportions or progress to conversion) and found nothing. Is it simply a binary thing – one or the other, conversion being total? As with characters themselves? And presumably with the same thing for culture as well?

“I have also decided to change my personal focus in life from the pursuit of hunting to that of learning, as I know it is one area in which I have felt the least comfortable and we need to advance our knowledge if we are to advance the realm. I still love the hunt, but must go to the place I am the least comfortable with for the good of the realm.”

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Rurik’s faithful dog, Hunter, seems almost sad at this, as if he could understand, his ears droop and his head is perched on crossed paws. But the Godi is very happy indeed.

“And to that end, Alfgeir, you will appropriate 25 gold from my coffers to commence the construction of an observatory. In the heavens we will find new knowledge and the favour of the Gods!”

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“I will expect the questions I have asked to be researched and the answers sent to me in the south, when I leave on the morrow. That is all for today!”

ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ

May 875

The spring wore on. Rurik found it easier to ignore the more complicated aspects of rulership when in the field with the now small band of warriors who had been with him since the early days of the realm’s founding. The troops finally arrived in Torzhok on 1 May and then went further south to Toropets, from where, if Rurik chose to move in that direction, they would not have to cross the Volga when attacking the Tver heartland.

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In the middle of the month, the King received despatches from his capital. His wife had given birth on 4 May to a baby daughter. Her reply to his letter containing Helgi’s accusations had – predictably – contained a full denial and protestations of the Queen’s devotion to him, their children and the future of the Norse realm. Rurik’s problem was that he believed Helgi’s accusations and Ingjerðr’s claims of love and devotion. Just not those of innocence. But how much can he blame her?

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He has reached the point where he has decided to leave the whole matter in the hands of the Gods: the plot’s success or failure will indicate their will in the matter. Whether he is able to stay this course is another matter. But for now, he yearns for the simplicity of battle. But Loki must again be at play, for the serenity of Blood and Battle remain elusively out of reach. Helgi’s report shows the build-up of levies remains steady but slow. Every month that passes increases the superiority in numbers a little over Tver. And any calling of tribal or religious warriors can be balanced out. But it will take years for the demesne levies to reach their full potential. Years Rurik does not feel he has.

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But for now, he is holding on a little longer for the numbers to build. The King’s mood is improved when he receives word from his trusty Chancellor that his long mission to Luki has met with some success: Svetozar actually has a slightly positive opinion of his liege. A wonder! He takes a little time to consider what Hrörekr should do next.

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June 875

Helgi and Jorunn now have a son and heir! Young Buðli may one day love his grandfather, but, to Rurik’s intense disappointment, Helgi proclaims the boy will be raised under the Slavic gods. This is enough to turn Rurik’s mind against the young child, seeing him as a religious threat rather than a welcome grandson. The Chancellor has attached a small note to the message of Buðli’s birth, pointing out he is now, under the realm’s laws second in the line of succession after Helgi, and before his own good Norse sons Eilif and Dyre. After his tenth or eleventh ale, he starts to sympathise with his wife’s alleged machinations! [But those conspiracy cases are always so hard to prove!]

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A few days later, Rurik decides to send his trusty Chancellor to do in Belo Ozero what he succeeded with in Luki: He will see if that other Slovensky chief, Vsemil (who happens to be one of his better commanders) can also be brought to at least respect and tolerate his ‘foreign and heathen’ king. Whether he conquers or raids next, Rurik does not want his more powerful chiefs rebelling behind his back.

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July 875

Another month passes and it is now summer. Campaigning season. The time of decision. The levies have reached 1,600 in strength (not counting his semi-independent chiefs, from where he might expect to perhaps get another 450-500 troops from loyal Smaleskja (modern Smolensk). Will it be conquest in Tver … or back to the ships for another raid?

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This latter question is raised by a message Rurik has received from Helgi concerning the 40 ships of the royal fleet. It seems one of the captains [many thanks @StevenJ] has pointed out that the command of the fleet is rests personally with Rurik, not with the realm. On the king’s death, they will consider their oaths fulfilled and will return to their many scattered home ports in the Norse diaspora.

In essence, Rurik must use them if the realm is to raid, because their land-locked nature and lack of coastal holdings and shipbuilding facilities will make seaborn raiding a thing of the past with the king’s death. Perhaps, Rurik thinks to himself, I should raid abroad again now, where hopefully I will suffer fewer casualties, while the levies build here at home. And my coffers fill and prestige grows. Money for mercenaries and more buildings to raise the training rates for the levies (or indeed to protect their growth by sacrificing hired swords) would be very useful.

Ch21 Q5: The Event Fleet. From StevenJ’s advice (which no-one has contradicted) and a few scraps of googled info, I’m pretty sure he is dead right and the fleet will disappear as soon as Rurik dies (presumably too any remaining event troops as well). So it’s either raid before that happens or be forced to look for alternate sources of income (with land raiding nearby not likely to be time-consuming and not very lucrative and PVT Ascoobis’s method the other alternative). My follow-on question remains unanswered, however: does anyone know what would happen if Rurik dies while the troops remain overseas and the ships disappear. Stranded; either completely, or with a long and likely perilous overland march)? Or even worse, what if he dies while the army was on board the ships – what would happen then? If no-one knows, I’d just have to run the risk and hope it’s not tested if I do wish to raid!

And so the latest translation of the Rurikid Chronicles, sees our chief protagonist caught in a few dilemmas and a major decision to make. Maybe a raid could be a good diversion. He has heard tell that the major river routes of the hinterland could be navigated to the Black Sea and thence the rich realms of the Byzantines and others. They would sail into the Baltic, then up the Daugava River through the lands of the Livonians and Lithuanians to Smaleskja, then down the Dnieper through Könungarðr and Hungary’s eastern marches. Rurik asks for confirmation of this route, and whether if on board ships, his army would have ‘free passage’ along these rivers through those lands.

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Ch21 Q6: River Travel. I just seek some confirmation that this is correct. I could muster my troops for raiding (of course, being careful to correctly invoke the Sacred Raiding Toggle again), then sail them along those rivers into the Black Sea and seek pillage-worthy targets there or in the Eastern Med. Would 1,600 men at arms even be enough? Attrition and the lost levies disaster mean there are well fewer men available than for the earlier raid on Britannia.

ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ

Questions

Ch21 Q1: Fellowship of Hel. These guys don’t look very nice! I googled a little about them. Now, because the options for joining are not available, does that indicate that they won’t be? Or might it be they just haven’t invited me yet?

Ch21 Q2: Elective Succession. OK, there is no way I’ve been able to discover to change Rurik’s vote for heir or to persuade others to do so. For example, by shifting preference to one of the younger sons. Anything I’m missing there? Or is the ‘elective’ part of this a bit of a misnomer. I understand from previous advice about the way the gavelkind usually does pan out, but just want to see if there’s anything about the ‘elective’ part I’m missing. A quick google and look at the wiki and other forum posts didn’t shed much light and revealed conflicting opinions.

Ch21 Q3: Independence Threat. OK, under Factions, it shows Miemo for Independence, but no members or strength indication. By checking again a little later, I realised this was because at that early stage, Miemo didn’t have any men yet! A month or two later, when he had a couple of dozen, it was at less than 1%vs Liege. Under Threat, it gives a rating of 80%, but doesn’t explain what this means and nothing appears on mouse-over. Does it relate to or affect the strength of the faction at all, or is there anything else about the two different aspects I need to be aware of?

Ch21 Q4: Religious Proportions by county? So, is there any way to find out how each religion sits within each county? I tried mouse-overs in the religious screen, the ledger and in the county screen (which only said what the religion and culture was, not whether there were any proportions or progress to conversion) and found nothing. Is it simply a binary thing – one or the other, conversion being total? As with characters themselves? And presumably with the same thing for culture as well?

Ch21 Q5: The Event Fleet. From StevenJ’s advice (which no-one has contradicted) and a few scraps of googled info, I’m pretty sure he is dead right and the fleet will disappear as soon as Rurik dies (presumably too any remaining event troops as well). So it’s either raid before that happens or be forced to look for alternate sources of income (with land raiding nearby not likely to be time-consuming and not very lucrative and PVT Ascoobis’s method the other alternative). My follow-on question remains unanswered, however: does anyone know what would happen if Rurik dies while the troops remain overseas and the ships disappear. Stranded; either completely, or with a long and likely perilous overland march)? Or even worse, what if he dies while the army was on board the ships – what would happen then? If no-one knows, I’d just have to run the risk and hope it’s not tested if I do wish to raid!

Ch21 Q6: River Travel. I just seek some confirmation that this is correct. I could muster my troops for raiding (of course, being careful to correctly invoke the Sacred Raiding Toggle again), then sail them along those rivers into the Black Sea and seek pillage-worthy targets there or in the Eastern Med. Would 1,600 men at arms even be enough? Attrition and the lost levies disaster mean there are well fewer men available than for the earlier raid on Britannia.

ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ

And so this chapter of the chronicle ends at another tipping point of Rurikid history. Which way will Rurik go? Will he seek a surprise reunion with the Queen in Constantinople – whether as a visitor or raider? Readers will need to tune in to the next episode to find out!

YYQIiR.jpg

Fast river travel through the interior – could this be Rurik’s next bold step?
 
Ch21 Q1: Fellowship of Hel. These guys don’t look very nice! I googled a little about them. Now, because the options for joining are not available, does that indicate that they won’t be? Or might it be they just haven’t invited me yet?

Ch21 Q2: Elective Succession. OK, there is no way I’ve been able to discover to change Rurik’s vote for heir or to persuade others to do so. For example, by shifting preference to one of the younger sons. Anything I’m missing there? Or is the ‘elective’ part of this a bit of a misnomer. I understand from previous advice about the way the gavelkind usually does pan out, but just want to see if there’s anything about the ‘elective’ part I’m missing. A quick google and look at the wiki and other forum posts didn’t shed much light and revealed conflicting opinions.

Ch21 Q3: Independence Threat. OK, under Factions, it shows Miemo for Independence, but no members or strength indication. By checking again a little later, I realised this was because at that early stage, Miemo didn’t have any men yet! A month or two later, when he had a couple of dozen, it was at less than 1%vs Liege. Under Threat, it gives a rating of 80%, but doesn’t explain what this means and nothing appears on mouse-over. Does it relate to or affect the strength of the faction at all, or is there anything else about the two different aspects I need to be aware of?

Ch21 Q4: Religious Proportions by county? So, is there any way to find out how each religion sits within each county? I tried mouse-overs in the religious screen, the ledger and in the county screen (which only said what the religion and culture was, not whether there were any proportions or progress to conversion) and found nothing. Is it simply a binary thing – one or the other, conversion being total? As with characters themselves? And presumably with the same thing for culture as well?

Ch21 Q5: The Event Fleet. From StevenJ’s advice (which no-one has contradicted) and a few scraps of googled info, I’m pretty sure he is dead right and the fleet will disappear as soon as Rurik dies (presumably too any remaining event troops as well). So it’s either raid before that happens or be forced to look for alternate sources of income (with land raiding nearby not likely to be time-consuming and not very lucrative and PVT Ascoobis’s method the other alternative). My follow-on question remains unanswered, however: does anyone know what would happen if Rurik dies while the troops remain overseas and the ships disappear. Stranded; either completely, or with a long and likely perilous overland march)? Or even worse, what if he dies while the army was on board the ships – what would happen then? If no-one knows, I’d just have to run the risk and hope it’s not tested if I do wish to raid!

Ch21 Q6: River Travel. I just seek some confirmation that this is correct. I could muster my troops for raiding (of course, being careful to correctly invoke the Sacred Raiding Toggle again), then sail them along those rivers into the Black Sea and seek pillage-worthy targets there or in the Eastern Med. Would 1,600 men at arms even be enough? Attrition and the lost levies disaster mean there are well fewer men available than for the earlier raid on Britannia.

1. The button in the top right opens a list of fellowships. I believe the option to join them is there. And if I recall, for the evil fellowships and a few other special ones (like the assasins), you have to express interest to join and then wait for events to start happening. For the more typical ones (which may not appear until you reform the faith or convert), you simply ask and then get accepted. I suppose a rejection is possible, but I've never seen it.

2. That nominate button in the upper right is what you're looking for.

3. I have no idea where the 80% comes from, it seems to have little to do with reality. For a faction to consider an ultimatum, it needs upwards of 70% strength (on the faction screen, not the intrigue screen). And even then, it can be useful to let them rebel, because you get an opinion bonus for beating them.

4. Religion and culture conversion are binary, to my eternal dismay when working on converters.

5. It'd be easy enough to experiment. Start a new (non-ironman) game, send them raiding, and use a console command to kill Rurik.

6. Yes, you can be the terror of the Black sea if you wish. It's worth 'scouting' some targets by clicking on the counties, seeing how many defenders they have, and maybe checking how many troops the rulers can pull up. It still might be worth it even if you can't sack a city, but you'll have to be vigilant to hop back on your boats before a large army shows. If you do that, you might even split off a few boats to lift the fog of war on more distant coastal provinces to have warning. Something might still come out of Anatolia by surprise (there's no strait-blocking), but you could anticipate armies out of Greece while sacking the city of men's desire.
 
Ch21 Q1: Fellowship of Hel. These guys don’t look very nice! I googled a little about them. Now, because the options for joining are not available, does that indicate that they won’t be? Or might it be they just haven’t invited me yet?

You must have a sin trait (lustful, sloth, etc.) to join the evil society (of any religion). Secret cults are for those with secret religions (if say Rurik was secretly a Muslim but still openly professed Norse faith).

Ch21 Q2: Elective Succession. OK, there is no way I’ve been able to discover to change Rurik’s vote for heir or to persuade others to do so. For example, by shifting preference to one of the younger sons. Anything I’m missing there? Or is the ‘elective’ part of this a bit of a misnomer. I understand from previous advice about the way the gavelkind usually does pan out, but just want to see if there’s anything about the ‘elective’ part I’m missing. A quick google and look at the wiki and other forum posts didn’t shed much light and revealed conflicting opinions.

The nominate button in the upper right ought to let you see the candidates, which you can then back. Also, others may be swayed by your decision and also back said candidate.

Ch21 Q3: Independence Threat. OK, under Factions, it shows Miemo for Independence, but no members or strength indication. By checking again a little later, I realised this was because at that early stage, Miemo didn’t have any men yet! A month or two later, when he had a couple of dozen, it was at less than 1%vs Liege. Under Threat, it gives a rating of 80%, but doesn’t explain what this means and nothing appears on mouse-over. Does it relate to or affect the strength of the faction at all, or is there anything else about the two different aspects I need to be aware of?

I'll be honest, I never even noticed that threat%. I say stick with the levy strength assessment.

Ch21 Q4: Religious Proportions by county? So, is there any way to find out how each religion sits within each county? I tried mouse-overs in the religious screen, the ledger and in the county screen (which only said what the religion and culture was, not whether there were any proportions or progress to conversion) and found nothing. Is it simply a binary thing – one or the other, conversion being total? As with characters themselves? And presumably with the same thing for culture as well?

Culture and COUNTY religion are binary. Character religion is mostly binary, but you can have a secret religion.

Ch21 Q5: The Event Fleet. From StevenJ’s advice (which no-one has contradicted) and a few scraps of googled info, I’m pretty sure he is dead right and the fleet will disappear as soon as Rurik dies (presumably too any remaining event troops as well). So it’s either raid before that happens or be forced to look for alternate sources of income (with land raiding nearby not likely to be time-consuming and not very lucrative and PVT Ascoobis’s method the other alternative). My follow-on question remains unanswered, however: does anyone know what would happen if Rurik dies while the troops remain overseas and the ships disappear. Stranded; either completely, or with a long and likely perilous overland march)? Or even worse, what if he dies while the army was on board the ships – what would happen then? If no-one knows, I’d just have to run the risk and hope it’s not tested if I do wish to raid!

They get stuck overseas, if landed. Not sure what happens if they are on the boat though.

Ch21 Q6: River Travel. I just seek some confirmation that this is correct. I could muster my troops for raiding (of course, being careful to correctly invoke the Sacred Raiding Toggle again), then sail them along those rivers into the Black Sea and seek pillage-worthy targets there or in the Eastern Med. Would 1,600 men at arms even be enough? Attrition and the lost levies disaster mean there are well fewer men available than for the earlier raid on Britannia.

You can indeed use rivers to reach new targets, though be careful of large realms.
 
IIRC one of the "problems" with M&M is there really need to be more societies ... iirc (and I am sure someone more knowledgeable than I will correct me if I am wrong) pagans only get access to the 'devil-worshipper' one, though each one has its own unique name.
 
Ch21 Q1: Fellowship of Hel. These guys don’t look very nice! I googled a little about them. Now, because the options for joining are not available, does that indicate that they won’t be? Or might it be they just haven’t invited me yet?

For the Fellowship of Hel, you need to have a sinful (The 7 deadly sins are the red numbered traits, the 7 heavenly virtues are the green numbered traits) trait, Rurik doesn't start with any but may have gained some since the start of the game. Once you've got one you there will be a button to express interest in the cult. They'll contact you after a while. You can occasionally get the event chain even if you haven't expressed interest if an AI character belonging to the cult attempts to convert you. It's really a mixed bag of tricks and experimentation is best with an older character so that you can die quickly if you don't like it.

Ch21 Q2: Elective Succession. OK, there is no way I’ve been able to discover to change Rurik’s vote for heir or to persuade others to do so. For example, by shifting preference to one of the younger sons. Anything I’m missing there? Or is the ‘elective’ part of this a bit of a misnomer. I understand from previous advice about the way the gavelkind usually does pan out, but just want to see if there’s anything about the ‘elective’ part I’m missing. A quick google and look at the wiki and other forum posts didn’t shed much light and revealed conflicting opinions.

Click the Nominate button and it will bring up a list of eligible candidates. It only shows candidates for your highest tier title. This is one of the reasons to create the Kingdom of Rus and make sure you have no more than 1 subordinate Duke at any one time. You and characters of the tier below yours can vote, and your vote breaks ties. So a Grand Duke with 6 vassal counts has 7 electors (The Grand Duke and all 6 Counts), while a King with one vassal Duke and 6 vassal counts has but 2 electors (himself and the Duke) and the tie breaker in his pocket, so he can essentially vote for whomever he pleases and rest easy knowing that person will be King.

Ch21 Q3: Independence Threat. OK, under Factions, it shows Miemo for Independence, but no members or strength indication. By checking again a little later, I realised this was because at that early stage, Miemo didn’t have any men yet! A month or two later, when he had a couple of dozen, it was at less than 1%vs Liege. Under Threat, it gives a rating of 80%, but doesn’t explain what this means and nothing appears on mouse-over. Does it relate to or affect the strength of the faction at all, or is there anything else about the two different aspects I need to be aware of?

Ignore the threat percentage when calculating whether or not a faction will fire. A faction will only fire when the leader of the faction believes he has enough troops supporting the faction to enforce his will on the ruler. The threat percentage is an old game mechanic IIRC. Back in the olden days before factions were a thing, that was part of the calculation for vassals rebelling, which would always be by themselves with no thought given to how swiftly they'd be crushed on their own.

Ch21 Q4: Religious Proportions by county? So, is there any way to find out how each religion sits within each county? I tried mouse-overs in the religious screen, the ledger and in the county screen (which only said what the religion and culture was, not whether there were any proportions or progress to conversion) and found nothing. Is it simply a binary thing – one or the other, conversion being total? As with characters themselves? And presumably with the same thing for culture as well?

County culture and religion are binary. You're 100% Religion/Culture A and 0% Religion/Culture B-Z.

Ch21 Q5: The Event Fleet. From StevenJ’s advice (which no-one has contradicted) and a few scraps of googled info, I’m pretty sure he is dead right and the fleet will disappear as soon as Rurik dies (presumably too any remaining event troops as well). So it’s either raid before that happens or be forced to look for alternate sources of income (with land raiding nearby not likely to be time-consuming and not very lucrative and PVT Ascoobis’s method the other alternative). My follow-on question remains unanswered, however: does anyone know what would happen if Rurik dies while the troops remain overseas and the ships disappear. Stranded; either completely, or with a long and likely perilous overland march)? Or even worse, what if he dies while the army was on board the ships – what would happen then? If no-one knows, I’d just have to run the risk and hope it’s not tested if I do wish to raid!

The fleet will disband immediately upon ruler death and you'll lose everything that is on it, including all troops and loot, IIRC. Haven't lost one at sea in a while, so I'm a bit fuzzy on remembering to be honest. If someone says differently, they may be right.


Ch21 Q6: River Travel. I just seek some confirmation that this is correct. I could muster my troops for raiding (of course, being careful to correctly invoke the Sacred Raiding Toggle again), then sail them along those rivers into the Black Sea and seek pillage-worthy targets there or in the Eastern Med. Would 1,600 men at arms even be enough? Attrition and the lost levies disaster mean there are well fewer men available than for the earlier raid on Britannia.

1600 men will be enough in the Black Sea, as anywhere else. I'd target Venice to be honest. The top holding is a city, not a castle, so it'll raid down quickly and be worth tons of loot. As always, focus on one or two county minor powers to minimize your risk. The only thing to take care of raiding in Italy and the Black Sea is that the softest targets (Rome and Venice) will both relentlessly summon mercenaries (The Pope) and retinues (Venice) to attack you. It's kind of a pain in the ass but if you land enough troops to win the first battle you're usually in the clear. Just watch for the Pope summoning mercs from his other counties.