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Some lucrative raiding and also empire building by way of getting your wife pregnant (those bizarre reality defying impregnations remain something of an irritation) and recruiting good Norse Commanders.
Others have responded re the costs/benefits of raiding Ireland or Devon. All I will say as someone who studied in the West Country is ‘from the fury of the Norsemen deliver us!’
Raiding Council of August 870, Cornwall (Summary of advice for Chap 11)
Once again, many thanks for the feedback and sage advice. Responses below to the Q&A parts I hadn't already responded to above. Rurik will soon need to fish in Devon or cut bait and hit Ireland. Will play the next round soon. But first, he must consider the advice of his Raiding Council and draw out the key lessons. Even if it takes some more hard experience to learn them properly.
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Ch11 Q1: Magic Weapons.I assume this isn’t unheard of (finding artifacts during a sack, as opposed to gaining them by quest and research), but in the AARs I’ve read, I haven’t seen any such reports. Perhaps such weapons were introduced in one of the DLCs. I think perhaps they can also be purchased from accomplished weaponsmiths in game events. Is finding one like this very unusual, or comparatively common when you raid a lot?
Q1: Magic Weapons were added in the Monks and Mystics DLC. Unfortunately, I don't have an idea of how rare the infamous "+2 Axe" (seriously, I hope there is an event to give it a better name) is.
Ah, thanks. I have that one, so that explains it. Some of the other AARs I've been reading of late are on older versions. Note previous conversation about the name: I know they were trying to be tongue in cheek with the '+2' runes and probably didn't want to risk giving a name that wouldn't be cross-culturally applicable... but at least it gives the author a chance to name it!
1. I've seen the +2 axe a few times in my Norse games and in AARs, but until M&M it was a status condition for that character. With M&M, it is an actual item that can be inherited or lost. The name is a bit silly but the benefit is anything but. I approve of the name in story.
Q1 - The purple axe was an event that came with The Old Gods DLC, that gave you a trait modifier. It was rolled into the Treasury system with Monks and Mystics and given an icon to go in the vault with the same modifier.
Thanks Nuada, Dunaden and Locklen for explaining that and Locklen, also for the screenie at the end. An interesting little snippet of DLC lore there!
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Ch11 Q2: Raiding Options.So, following on from the last folkmøte, I had a quick look at a couple of Irish provinces, as had been suggested. But based on simple tax income figures, they don’t look that promising to be frank. Devon on the other hand is nearby and looks lucrative, while no other forces (ie Saxons, for example) look to be a threat. Unless the Raiding Council can convince him another alternative for the next raid would be better, Rurik is minded to visit more misery on Dumnarth’s kingdom.
Q2: The advantage of Irland is that you can litterally plunder the whole island with no backlash, since it's made of one-county rulers. Of course Devon is a better plunder by itself, but it will take a long time to you to fully raid the holdings, with the risks of the enemy returning (or, if they have enemies attacking them, you risk to find yourself on the path of the enemy's army). Basically, plundering Ireland right now is the safe investment - there can be no retaliation once you land, but you take longer to gain the same - while Devon is the risky one - you get more in less time but risk retaliation.
2. Ireland is divided at this time and thus weak, so weak responses to raids. Eventually, the coasts along Western Europe will harden up as defensive buildings go up. So take the easy pickings where you can find them!
Q2 - Ireland is poorer than other areas, but easier to sack and loot for gold and prisoners with little resistance. The further south you go the richer the targets, but they are better defended. It all comes down to risk and reward. You have a pretty sizable force for the time period, I would go for richer targets now before they grow stronger. Also don't forget you can take your ships up many of the rivers to reach rich targets inland, these will become closed to you later in the game.
Rufy_King, Nuada and Dunaden: all useful and valid comments, it seems to me (and Rurik ). The sieging required to get the extra gold in Devon would be a bit of a pain and there is the risk of becoming a target, but Cornish King Dumnarth himself seems a spent force. Not sure if any bystanding Saxons are likely to come across, though. And (more below) the gold, prisoners, artefact and Viking trait gained from that siege warfare were pretty good - assume I wouldn't likely get that from just cruising the countryside.
It also depends upon luck as to whether the AI can be bothered to defend against your raids or not. Half a year ago in my only pagan run (I was invading Ireland and needed cash) I raided the Abassids and Romans several times without them doing anything. Worth risking for the rewards if you can get that far. The only thing to bear in mind is that your shouldn't raid where you are planning to conquer, because it ruins the economy for a while.
I think I'm inclined to agree, notwithstanding the benefits or dashing through undefended countryside. I think Rurik is likely to end up doing some of both. Perhaps using Ireland to top up the ships after plundering Devon for as much as seems worthwhile.
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Ch11 Q3: Raiding and Prestige?It’s not clear to me whether, and if so by how much, raiding aids prestige. It doesn’t seem to figure in the victory screens and I can’t tell from the prestige stat mouseover how much, if any, might have been added. Having a quick look at the wiki, I couldn’t find anything that referenced any prestige gain from raiding or sacking per se, so I assume you don’t. But anyone that knows better, please let the Raiding Council know!
3. There should be a pop-up when you return a raiding fleet to your own lands to the effect of bringing back so much gold and so much prestige. It's not a modifier, it's a straight-up gain.
Q3 - The gold and prestige doesn't show up until you safely bringing your raiders back to your home territory and you show off your prizes. You'll get an event screen showing this when you reach a friendly port. You get as much prestige as the gold you collected. So if you fill your 40 ships with 400 gold, you'll get 400 prestige.
Ah, now that you all point this out, it not only makes sense, but I think (IIRC and without checking back as I write this, will later) I may have encountered that once in that early 'test' raid way back when, and then forgot. Nice to have the lesson reinforced. I can see how a large raid will help get me to my Prestige ambition quite quickly and also then be very useful for getting some of those prestige-built improvements happening - yes, in Rurik's demesne provinces, that lesson is well-and-truly learned now .
OK, also useful to know a little siege and battle prestige can be gained. And yes, the Viking trait was hoped-for (given previous advice from Things and folkmotes), but the axe was an excellent surprise - and the gold was more than I had been expecting from that last siege.
Some lucrative raiding and also empire building by way of getting your wife pregnant (those bizarre reality defying impregnations remain something of an irritation) and recruiting good Norse Commanders.
Others have responded re the costs/benefits of raiding Ireland or Devon. All I will say as someone who studied in the West Country is ‘from the fury of the Norsemen deliver us!’
Yes, this time I sought to weave that pregnancy non sequitur into the legend, but raiding in Cornwall to spying in Constantinople!? Stretches credulity a bit, doesn't it? I'll have to double-check to make sure the Queen hasn't found a lover in that great city, which would be a far more plausible explanation (but not one Gumarich would dare include in his chronicles)! Sorry about the West Country - they need to keep their gold in plain view and dargs on leashes . Rurik will leave ... when his ships are full! Alas, Devon is looking very nice this time of year - he and his lads may look to enjoy its hospitality for a little while yet.
OK, back to grind of realm-building and pillaging. Will update again in due course. Thanks again all who read and comment - it is greatly appreciated, as always.
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And I know it is shameless cross-promotion, but if any of you are interested in what is happening over on the HOI3 forum and are not reading there at present, you're very welcome to tune into my other (longer-running and not so newbie) Talking Turkey saga over there. It's not (I dare to hope) your average WW2 story. Link below for any intrepid soul willing to sample it. Beware, it is populated by some (fictional) Mafia characters and many other strange, scary or zany inhabitants! It's what I'm doing in between these Blood and Battle updates, if you ever wondered. Link in the signature.
And yes, the Viking trait was hoped-for (given previous advice from Things and folkmotes), but the axe was an excellent surprise - and the gold was more than I had been expecting from that last siege.
A quick note. The viking trait was once singular. Now there are three levels to it; Viking, Ravager from raiding 50 settlements after obtaining Viking, and Sea King/Queen from raiding another 50 after obtaining Ravager.
Chapter 12: Of Gods, Men and the World Tree (19 August 870 – 10 March 871)
The Rurikid Chronicles note this period as one of continuous raiding in the south-west of Britannia. Following the complete sacking of Cornwall, Rurik’s forces decided to strike Devon next: they would serve it as they had Cornwall. After scourging the countryside, they would reduce its key settlements, in search of treasure, prisoners and glory [including moral authority – of that, more later].
Back in Holmgarðr, Gumarich der Schreiber continued to record developments there, during which time it appears Chancellor Hrörekr and Prince-Marshal Helgi had the main running of day to day business in the realm, with Rurik raiding in Britannia and Queen Ingjerðr studying in Constantinople.
August 870
Gumarich had previously noted how a new commander, Sverker of Nöteborg, had been recruited to the court. He had set sail some months previously with a new young bride-to-be, who would accompany him on campaign. He arrived in Cornwall as the last stronghold there fell on 19 August. He was summoned to Rurik’s quarters in the sacked St. German’s.
“So, you are Sverker?” asks the King as Sverker enters. “I have heard good reports of you. Will you live up to them in my service?”
“King Rurik, I will fight for victory and glory at your side and, if summoned to Valhalla in the doing, will die a happy man to have served you!”
“Very well then – it is good to have another loyal Norse commander at my side!” In a lower voice, he mutters “I’d be rid of these troublesome Solvenskys, with their Slavic ways and morose countenances.” In a louder voice again, he tells Sverker he will now command the right wing.
Next, Vsemil is called in. To soften the blow, while Vsemil will be “permitted to return to your brothers in Belo Ozero, with honour for your faithful service”, he retains his office as a commander in the Holmgarðian Army.
“It is Nuyanza who will be relieved of his office. A decent man and commander, but not a military leader of the first order.” I hope Hrörekr is able to work his diplomatic wiles on Nuyanza soon, rather than antagonise the poor man as he has been doing these last few months, thinks Rurik to himself, having despatched a letter back home to ensure his true intentions are carried out in Ingria.
Vsemil is not displeased to be released from his duties in Cornwall and take boat back home. By all accounts, he had found it increasingly difficult to feel comfortable in the King’s direct service, especially among his increasingly Norse retainers and Viking ways. He takes his leave on the evening tide. No-one knows what he will do once he gets back home and links up with the brothers Rurik himself has displaced!
That same night, Sverker introduces his new bride – they are married that night, as part of the celebration of the victory at St. German’s and the completion of the sacking of Cornwall. He tells the King and his officers a story of how they became betrothed.
“Well, Hrörekr’s first attempt was a disaster!” Sverker, a huge and brawny man, and not without some foibles of his own to be frank, laughs loudly. “Young Sigrid af Luki looked as though she had embarked on a life’s quest to achieve all the deadly sins! She was greedy, wroth, envious and proud! Now, while I like gold as much as the next man, I’m not that keen to actually pursue it. I prefer battle and breaking heads. Combine all those sins together and only the All-Father would foretell how our children may turn out!” This draws laughs all around the table, as the gnawed bones pile up and the mead horns are refilled – many times over.
“No, young Bodil here, with her shy beauty and charitable ways, is just what I need.” Sverker gives her a lustful grin over the table. “And speaking of siring whelps, I’m away, my King! Bodil, come here, we’re taking our leave!” Bodil follows him out, though not without a slightly worried look around her: who might be plotting against me or my new husband? Who will seek to take him down from his newly won post? I must be vigilant – I will watch them and they will never even know it. Just because you’re paranoid, doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you!
That night, orders are issued. The raiders will march out the following day for Devon. Another ten days will see them plundering fresh lands. Vsemil Slovensky has already left, disdaining the victory feast – too many toasts to those heretical Norse gods for his liking.
And speaking of religion, the zealous King Rurik seeks more information on where the true Norse Pagan faith stands. He has ambitions to reform the faith, to take it to new heights. He is advised that to do this, the moral authority of the religion must be further built. It has grown since the early days of 867 [when it was 30%, attributable to the three Viking-held Holy Sites, to 39%]. He is told it must be raised higher still [to 50%] or that all five Holy Sites must be brought under control. Then, the faith can be reformed, which may help to fortify it against the encroachment of heathen Christianity. Or so Rurik believes. He asks for more information on this matter.
At this point, Rurik was provided some guidance from a tome written by the son of Wiki the Red (the raiding expert). Interestingly, Björn Wikisson had written a passage on just this topic. It looks like Ruriks ambitions may be more difficult than he thought they might be. Those Holy Sites must be in the aspiring Reformer’s personal possession, not just under the control of adherents to the religion. This would not be easy and seems a long-term goal, even if the alternate path of only securing three plus building moral authority is pursued.
Björn the Blue’s Tome of the Ægir (Excerpts)
[Note: this transcript is from the Wiki. No need to read it if you are familiar - it's here for the more newbie reader ]
Reformation
Reforming a pagan faith establishes a formal religious hierarchy and scripture - adapting elements of the Abrahamic faiths in order to more effectively oppose them. In game terms, reformed pagans no longer face the restrictions on crown authority, succession, independence wars and conversion that other pagans do.
The religion now has a formal head, who gives the faith a permanent +20% to moral authority, and who may, after the Crusades and Jihads are unlocked, call Great Holy Wars. The Germanic reformer becomes the Fylkir, a ducal-level secular leader similar to an Islamic Caliph. The other pagan faiths have a duke-level religious leader who becomes a vassal of the reforming ruler, similar to the Orthodox religion's patriarch. With the exception of the reformed Germanic religion, the faith will also immediately gain a holy order.
When the religion is reformed, rulers of the faith may choose to accept or reject the new order of things. Those who stick with the old ways are considered heretics by the reformed faith, and may be targeted by holy wars.
Requirements
Reforming a faith costs 750 piety.
It requires either control of three holy sites and 50% moral authority, or else control of all five holy sites.
If the last two holy sites are difficult to reach, the best way to obtain the necessary moral authority is through county conquests and raids. Each temple looted in a raid gives +1% to moral authority.
Note that Germanic pagans have as a holy site the county of Braunschweig, and taking that county will trigger the Catholic crusades (as well as the formation of every Catholic Holy Order but the Knights Templar) at the time that you take Braunschweig, so long as the year is 900 and the province is Christian.
Advantages
Reformed pagans will gain a sudden bonus to their conversion rates. In fact, if they have high moral authority, and have damaged rival religions' moral authority with their conquests and stolen holy sites, or control unreformed pagan lands, they will soon be flooded with notices of conversions of territories that are held by their vassals, who will put forth serious effort to convert their lands to their new faith.
Reformed religions gain access to holy wars, usable on any target of a different faith (including other pagans). They also gain access to Great Holy Wars if the Catholics have unlocked Crusades or the Muslims have unlocked Jihads. GHWs are especially useful for Germanic Fylkirs, who can select the target and timing of the attack.
To help in the struggle against unbelievers, each reformed faith gets a single holy order. (There is one exception. Germanic pagans do not have to reform to create the Jomsvikings; instead, they must control Stettin, Wolgast, Rügen or Werle.)
For tribal pagans, reforming makes it easier to raise tribal organization. Tribal vassals who follow in reformation will no longer have opinion penalties for higher levels of tribal organization, no longer faction to lower tribal organization, and will usually vote in favor of increasing tribal organization.
For feudal pagans, reforming makes it possible to raise crown authority to any level. Reforming also provides access to the full set of feudal succession laws.
Reformed offensive pagans no longer lose prestige when at peace.
The short reign penalty is reduced to merely double the normal amount for Germanic pagans among the same Germanic faith, but Old Germanic pagans will have the full -45 penalty in addition to the heretic penalty. Other pagan faiths have different modifiers.
Disadvantages
Reformed pagans no longer get a defense attrition bonus, and will incur attrition in the territory of unreformed pagans, except those who follow the old form of their own religion. Germanic rulers lose their retinue size bonus and now get penalties for raised levies like other rulers.
Reformed religions lose access to subjugation wars, one of the fastest ways for pagans to expand. They keep access to county conquests and raids.
Reforming the religion will cause a schism in the pagan faith - the reformer will be of the new religion, and so will their direct vassals, but others have a random chance (or a choice if the player) of being one faith or the other. Old religion followers will be heretics with a -35 penalty to relations to members of the reformed faith. If a king of a faith stays true to the old ways, and many vassals convert to the new religion, this can cause tremendous upheaval in a nation, and lead to multiple simultaneous revolts. Expect frequent raids and wars between realms that accept the new faith and those that reject it.
Strategies
Reformation tends to grant benefits of stability and the capacity to declare wars on larger-scale targets that smaller pagan nations couldn't attack, but lose many of the benefits that would help a small pagan nation expand more readily or defend itself from larger targets. As such, it is best used when the player is ready for their nation to "mature" from aggressive expansion against small targets to needing to maintain an empire.
Because of this, it is usually strategically advisable to hold off on reforming your religion until your realm is at a multiple-kingdom level, and to make sure to exploit any subjugation or county conquest CBs against nearby easy target pagans before reforming your religion.
Now that you have no fast way to expand through pagan lands, you may wish to convert to a culture that allows use of the Tribal Invasion CB, so you can quickly expand through infidel lands instead.
Having read this advice, Rurik still has questions of his own. It looks to him, as he ponders these words and a map of the Norse Holy Sites, that it would be the work of a lifetime, or perhaps more than one. And if pursued, may be at odds with a desire – in the shorter term, anyway – of creating a united Kingdom of Rus.
Ch12 Q1: Reforming Paganism.I know we have touched on this before, but now Rurik is focusing on this matter more. I gather, for the longer-term benefits (succession laws especially), reform or conversion to another organised religion is probably required. Some general questions first: So, if Rurik (or a successor) reforms Norse Paganism, he would become the Fylkir (head) of it? If so, is that an hereditary or appointed title thereafter – and is it very useful (it looks it)? Reforming would lose some advantages, but it seems that would be outweighed by the benefits – at the right time (ie when the first wave of expansion is done). Whether by conquest or other means, how easy/realistic is it to at least get the three Scandinavian Holy Sites? Two are in the hands of Ragnar’s sons – and Björn Ironside is Rurik’s father-in-law. As for piety, Rurik currently has 244: I presume the 750 requirement is additional to the Holy Site/moral authority criteria? Again, is that a pipe dream, or realistic with the right strategy?
The King considers these questions during the army’s march to Devon. But now, back to the more mundane business of raiding the soft and verdant countryside of south-west Britannia! He has a letter sent to Chancellor Hrörekr to have the great question of the future of Norse religion put before the next Thing.
September 870
As the undefended loot of the county of Devon is thrown in sacks and chests and put on the fleet for safe keeping, the stoutly defended town of Lydford is besieged. A small village these days, back then it was a major provincial centre.
An artist’s impression of what Lydford would have looked like during this time – before Rurik’s viking raiders arrived to make a mess of it in 870 CE! By the 9th century the Saxon kings of Wessex had established a burh here to protect the area both from Viking raids and also from the Cornish. Fortified during the reign of King Alfred, in Saxon times Lydford was considered equal in importance to Exeter and Totnes.
On 22 September, reports were received that a small force of Cornish levies had boarded a similarly small fleet of galleys. They were last seen heading from the Solent towards the Strait of Dover. Surely they couldn’t be seeking some kind of revenge raid on far Holmgarðr? Well, if they do it will be Helgi’s problem. Rurik can’t think what else they may be up to, nor anything he could do about it, so he does his best to put it out of his mind.
Back home, by 30 September the Chancellor – having received the formal message from King Rurik - is finally able to focus on his true purpose in Ingria: trying to improve relations with Chief Nuyanza, who is now very ambivalent after having lost his formal commander’s rank.
November 870
Hrörekr receives word from the King that this year, a Great Blot should be held. Rurik has been interested in holding one for some time. Although he can’t be there in person, he ensures a careful record is made of the event, as it will be another nine years before the next can be held. Gumarich sent regular updates, copies of which have been found in the Rurikid scroll trove.
On 5 November the 50 gold was spent and preparations for the First Great Rurikid Blot commenced. Invitations were sent and the responses arrived immediately.
The loyal Norse Chief Egill of Smaleskja and Godi þorolfr would of course attend. The non-Norse Chiefs were not expected to, but should make a donation in lieu of attendance. Vsemil and Nuyanza do so, with sufficient good grace. But, once again, it is the troublesome Svetozar who sends insults instead of gold. Indeed, the insult will not be forgotten!
The blot begins on 15 November. The Gods are in readiness, as are the people – and the hangman! This should be an excellent entertainment!
Five days later, the unfortunate Cornish woman, Síne (sent back to the capital months ago), suffers the consequences of not having had anyone willing to pay her ransom. A zealous ruler such as Rurik would not spare such as this poor misguided Síne – the blow to his standing in the eyes of the Gods and his Norse compatriots would be grievous. No, Godi þorolfr knows what must be done.
That holy business done, it is now time for the feasting to begin! Though the opinion gained will only apply to the vassals who attended – it leaves the others cold, alas.
December 870
Later in the month, King Rurik receives a report he had Hrörekr compile. Apparently, he had asked the Chancellor to check that the Queen was indeed being faithful in far off Constantinople. No evidence of a lover was uncovered and the Queen’s good name remained unsullied. The note also contained information on the Queen’s background, which would have been well-known at the time but has only just been confirmed by those translating Gumarich’s records. Ingjerðr was indeed of illustrious stock, grand-daughter of the great Ragnarr Loðbrok and daughter of King Björn Ironside, ruler of SviÞjod.
Ragnarr Lodbrok or Lothbrok (Old Norse: Ragnarr Loðbrók, "Ragnar Shaggy-Breeches") was a legendary Danish and Swedish Viking hero and ruler, known from Viking Age Old Norse poetry and sagas. According to this traditional literature, Ragnar distinguished himself by many raids against Francia and Anglo-Saxon England during the 9th century. Ragnarr was the son of the Swedish king Sigurd Hring.
Gumarich’s update to the King also included news that the feast for the First Great Blot had finished on 19 December, but that its beneficial effects would continue for the next year. All consider it a great success – and he imagines how much greater the next one will be if by then all his vassals are good Norsemen! News of this great festival and the favour of the Gods spreads throughout the army, improving their morale considerably.
By the time the Blot was finishing, his quartermaster reported the fleet was now half full of treasure. With all the Devon countryside well and truly scoured by then, any remaining treasure was within the three settlements of the county still holding out. But they would fall, by Thor's Mighty Hammer!
In the realm, the first building projects in the newly claimed royal demesne provinces of Toropets and Torzhok (market villages) are completed on 24 December. Basic hillforts will be built next – to strengthen the border and build the size of future levies.
January 871
As the siege of Lydford dragged into the new year (by the Christian reckoning), the new Earthen Hillfort was completed in the capital. No sooner was this finished than work began on a wooden palisade to top it. Of all Rurik’s provinces, this would be the most beneficial to apply a bonus to levy recruitment.
February 871
Gumarich’s chronicle recorded a momentous event for Rurik and the Kingdom as having occurred on 4 February: in far-off Constantinople, the Queen gave birth to a healthy son, Eilif, a ‘spare heir’ should anything unfortunate befall Prince Helgi. Joyous news indeed. Rurik wanted his young son to be taught by a military man of solid Norse stock – and selected his new ‘favourite’, Sverker, for that trusted role, as the next best soldier in the realm after Prince Helgi himself. Naturally, Sverker was deeply honoured – his loyalty and devotion to the King reaching new height.
Rurik was recorded as making pious tribute to the Goddess Freya at this time in thanks for his fortune and in hope of Eilif’s future.
Rurik probably did so with a figurine of the Goddess similar to this 9th century Viking depiction of Freya, wrought in silver.
March 871
“At last! Men, enjoy yourselves, the run of the town is yours!”
These words were recorded as having been uttered by Rurik when Lydford finally fell to his raiders on 9 March 871. We will draw a veil over the details these enthusiastic words would have heralded for the poor folk of that place. Zealous joy for the king became abject misery for the inhabitants, as usual.
Another influx of gold went to the ships, while two new prisoners – once again a woman (the Countess of Devon, no less) and child, both of whom may be ransomed – went into captivity. In a day or two, the King would see to making demands. But for now, with Lydford in flames, Exeter became the raider’s next target. Far less heavily fortified than Lydford had been, it should be quicker to reduce. It did get Rurik thinking that an improvement in siege warfare practice may be a very useful thing for his army, whether when raiding or back at home, for future conquests.
Even today, there are prominent reminders of Exeter’s old Roman fortifications. They would have been even more so in 871.
And reprising his earlier consideration of religion and moral authority, Rurik makes another assessment of where things stand. The moral authority of Germanic Paganism has now risen further [to 41%]. Though it seems the actions of others – invasions and conquests, failed and succeeded – have had an impact, in addition to the busy raiding Rurik has been doing.
Ch12 Q2: Moral Authority.So I’m assuming here what others of the Norse persuasion do has the same impact on overall authority as Rurik’s actions. So, to a certain extent, he would also be hostage to the actions of others in trying to keep MA high, while at the same time trying to gain the Holy Sites and build piety for a possible future Reformation. Seems a tall order to me, but don’t know how that kind of project normally proceeds and over what timeline.
And so the latest translations of the Rurikid Chronicle close with the afterglow of a successful Blot continuing, another siege won and a new one begun, a new Prince born, building projects aplenty and the King pondering whether to take his zealotry and love of conquest to a new stage – or to leave the possible reformation of the Norse faith to a more distant successor.
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Hrörekr prepares to convene another Thing, the primary purpose of which will be to debate the future of the Germanic faith. But the King has also asked for more general advice and comments from those who would care to make them – in case there is another question he should have asked, but has not thought to do so!
Ch12 Q1: Reforming Paganism.I know we have touched on this before, but now Rurik is focusing on this matter more. I gather, for the longer-term benefits (succession laws especially), reform or conversion to another organised religion is probably required. Some general questions first: So, if Rurik (or a successor) reforms Norse Paganism, he would become the Fylkir (head) of it? If so, is that an hereditary or appointed title thereafter – and is it very useful (it looks it)? Reforming would lose some advantages, but it seems that would be outweighed by the benefits – at the right time (ie when the first wave of expansion is done). Whether by conquest or other means, how easy/realistic is it to at least get the three Scandinavian Holy Sites? Two are in the hands of Ragnar’s sons – and Björn Ironside is Rurik’s father-in-law. As for piety, Rurik currently has 244: I presume the 750 requirement is additional to the Holy Site/moral authority criteria? Again, is that a pipe dream, or realistic with the right strategy?
Ch12 Q2: Moral Authority.So I’m assuming here what others of the Norse persuasion do has the same impact on overall authority as Rurik’s actions. So, to a certain extent, he would also be hostage to the actions of others in trying to keep MA high, while at the same time trying to gain the Holy Sites and build piety for a possible future Reformation. Seems a tall order to me, but don’t know how that kind of project normally proceeds and over what timeline.
Ch12 Q3: General Advice and Comment.While a raft of specific new questions, religion aside, have not been raised, the King would appreciate any views on recent events, future concerns or ideas for the development of the realm. And the author would be pleased to hear any readers’ views on how the translation and dramatization of the Rurikid scroll trove is proceeding: comments on the content and focus, or question they may have of the scholars undertaking this work.
Will Rurik delve further into the mysteries of the World Tree and seek to become a Great Reformer?
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Yggdrasil (from Old Norse Yggdrasill) is an immense mythical tree that connects the nine worlds in Norse cosmology. Yggdrasil is attested in the Poetic Edda, compiled in the 13th century from earlier traditional sources, and the Prose Edda, written in the 13th century by Snorri Sturluson. In both sources, Yggdrasil is an immense ash tree that is center to the cosmos and considered very holy. The gods go to Yggdrasil daily to assemble at their things. The branches of Yggdrasil extend far into the heavens, and the tree is supported by three roots that extend far away into other locations; one to the well Urðarbrunnr in the heavens, one to the spring Hvergelmir, and another to the well Mímisbrunnr.
Well it' possible to do most things in one lifetime but not without immense amounts of cheese. I'l be hnest though, you need that Rus kingdom at least first. And probably take as much of Scandinavia as possible (where all the pagans are) and eastern Europe.
Ch12 Q1: Reforming Paganism.I know we have touched on this before, but now Rurik is focusing on this matter more. I gather, for the longer-term benefits (succession laws especially), reform or conversion to another organised religion is probably required. Some general questions first: So, if Rurik (or a successor) reforms Norse Paganism, he would become the Fylkir (head) of it? If so, is that an hereditary or appointed title thereafter – and is it very useful (it looks it)? Reforming would lose some advantages, but it seems that would be outweighed by the benefits – at the right time (ie when the first wave of expansion is done). Whether by conquest or other means, how easy/realistic is it to at least get the three Scandinavian Holy Sites? Two are in the hands of Ragnar’s sons – and Björn Ironside is Rurik’s father-in-law. As for piety, Rurik currently has 244: I presume the 750 requirement is additional to the Holy Site/moral authority criteria? Again, is that a pipe dream, or realistic with the right strategy?
Ch12 Q2: Moral Authority.So I’m assuming here what others of the Norse persuasion do has the same impact on overall authority as Rurik’s actions. So, to a certain extent, he would also be hostage to the actions of others in trying to keep MA high, while at the same time trying to gain the Holy Sites and build piety for a possible future Reformation. Seems a tall order to me, but don’t know how that kind of project normally proceeds and over what timeline.
Ch12 Q3: General Advice and Comment.While a raft of specific new questions, religion aside, have not been raised, the King would appreciate any views on recent events, future concerns or ideas for the development of the realm. And the author would be pleased to hear any readers’ views on how the translation and dramatization of the Rurikid scroll trove is proceeding: comments on the content and focus, or question they may have of the scholars undertaking this work.
1. Fylkir is inheritable. Being able to call great holy wars can be quite useful. Think "Norse crusades" or better yet "Norse crusades for lands you want".
2. Yeah, that's true. The actions of others do influence the moral authority of the entire religion for better or worse. All you can do is press on regardless. It's possible to reform within one lifetime. Some players make a point of that. You're not so wildly far from managing it with Rurik if you keep raiding.
3. I'm enjoying the AAR. It's gotten me thinking about CK2 and I've certainly learned a few things.
Ch12 Q1: Reforming Paganism.I know we have touched on this before, but now Rurik is focusing on this matter more. I gather, for the longer-term benefits (succession laws especially), reform or conversion to another organised religion is probably required. Some general questions first: So, if Rurik (or a successor) reforms Norse Paganism, he would become the Fylkir (head) of it? If so, is that an hereditary or appointed title thereafter – and is it very useful (it looks it)? Reforming would lose some advantages, but it seems that would be outweighed by the benefits – at the right time (ie when the first wave of expansion is done). Whether by conquest or other means, how easy/realistic is it to at least get the three Scandinavian Holy Sites? Two are in the hands of Ragnar’s sons – and Björn Ironside is Rurik’s father-in-law. As for piety, Rurik currently has 244: I presume the 750 requirement is additional to the Holy Site/moral authority criteria? Again, is that a pipe dream, or realistic with the right strategy?
My personal belief is that playing pagan means that you should reform your religion. And since Rurik is a zealot, I would expect him to put it as an high priority. It's perferctly possible in one lifetime, since three of the required holy sites are under minor lords, and if you raid and conquer enough you can easily get the count to fifty percent. Again, my only advice if you go for it is to not touch the one in Germany for now, because it will trigger holy wars. As for the others, your tie with Bjorn makes it harder but not impossible to obtain.
And I mean, the advantages are way above the disadvantages, you get free holy wars, if you get Stettin the Jormsviking are basically an extra army, the Fylkir trait is really useful and let's not forget that you can get rid of gavelkind.
Ch12 Q2: Moral Authority.So I’m assuming here what others of the Norse persuasion do has the same impact on overall authority as Rurik’s actions. So, to a certain extent, he would also be hostage to the actions of others in trying to keep MA high, while at the same time trying to gain the Holy Sites and build piety for a possible future Reformation. Seems a tall order to me, but don’t know how that kind of project normally proceeds and over what timeline.
Yes, every germanic pagan contributes to moral authority. On the plus side this means that every victory, even those of lord Nobody of Somewhere, gets moral authority to your faith, but on the minus side every defeat of lord Nobody II of SomewhereElse makes the faith lose points as well. It's usually better to get moral authority a little above 60%, just in case the above lord does something stupid.
Ch12 Q3: General Advice and Comment.While a raft of specific new questions, religion aside, have not been raised, the King would appreciate any views on recent events, future concerns or ideas for the development of the realm. And the author would be pleased to hear any readers’ views on how the translation and dramatization of the Rurikid scroll trove is proceeding: comments on the content and focus, or question they may have of the scholars undertaking this work.
Well first of all I really like this AAR, I am finding out a lot of things I didn't know and at the same time I hope I am being helpful to you and others.
As for any future suggestion, I would say you are doing fine, maybe try to raid Ireland for extra cash before going home after the Devon invasion, and if I can suggest another point of interest, try to look for any war in the Mediterranean Sea, and if there is any plunder those lands.
First, love the picture you paint. Bones on the floor, foamy mead in the horns, raiders and long ships and looting. You are having fun with King Rurik.
Second, I think in order of Reform Paganism @TheButterflyComposer is right - you have to take over much of Europe in order to do that. We are talking a few generations likely. OR a never-ending series of wars.
Getting the three Scandinavian sites is easy enough, and the raiding will eventually raise moral authority to sufficient levels. Of course, you might be unlucky and have others of your faith get setbacks which puts you back .... just have to keep raiding one church after the other.
As the others have said, it's difficult but doable. You do need to directly control three holy sites yourself, and every other germanic ruler's action affect the moral authority.
Can’t really add to the points as I’ve never played vikings in this game. It’s very interesting though. Sounds like people ate As split as you whether to reform the faith or no...
I liked the dispatching of the non-Norse commander. Made me chuckle
I think everyone wants to see you do it, it's just impractical for you to do it right now (or I guess, if you want to turn this into a Challange AAr as well as a tutorial one, perfectly alright). Your a small realm, surrounded by small realms and you want to expand. Of course old gods helps there. And then you become a big state, surrounded by big states, so you want to reform the religion. In gameplay terms, because of your start date, this should actually be around the time crusades start to happen, which means you have a better defence against them (your own religion spreads much faster) and you can keep a bigger realm together for longer in some of the bigger wars that will come your way due to you being a large pagan power in the middle of Christian Europe.
Well. Reforming the faith is a tough task (nothing worthwhile is ever easy) but definitely doable. You're in a bit of a bad spot to start immediately, but a couple of things to watch out for. First, if any of the coastal holy sites (Uppsala, Naumadal, Zeeland, or Sjaelland I believe are the correct counties) have a weak ruler or are independent, I'm pretty sure you can use the coastal conquest CB against another Norse ruler to snipe the county. I'd not advise a holy war for the duchy that Zeeland is in against a Catholic if it is under Catholic control. Second, you can use a Subjugation CB against another ruler (once per ruler lifetime IIRC). You're probably going to use that one in the Russia area with Rurik, so it's unlikely at best that you'll have it available for Rurik himself. But his heirs can use it on Sweden or Denmark if the opportunity is there.
For now it's mostly if you see the opportunity to go for 3 of them in a short timeframe, take it. Otherwise I'd let it lie until your heir takes over and then reevaluate the situation. You're stuck in Gavelkind, and your peripheral counties go to younger children, so you'll very likely lose any conquered holy sites upon succession if you don't quite make it to the reformation. Reforming the faith will eventually be a mandatory goal as you're stuck in tribalism and, as good as it is now, feudal will eventually be massively better. Immediate goal for me, within Rurik's lifetime, would be forming Russia (or whatever the de jure kingdom you are in is) and then focusing on Reformed Germanic, or another mainstream faith if you so choose, afterwards. Staying Norse is the important bit as it's an excessively powerful culture.
If you're lucky, one of the Scandinavian rulers will reform it for you, but I wouldn't count on it. It does happen more often now since the Jade Dragon free patch, but it's still a roll of the dice.
If you or another Norse ruler happen to pick up 3 holy sites somehow, raid temples for MA and don't worry about the other rulers and what they fail at. Focus on what you can control.
The Fifth Thing of Rurik's Reign - the "Ægir's Thing" (March 871)
The Fifth Thing of Rurik's Reign - the "Ægir's Thing"
Gumarich der Schreiber recorded that Chancellor and Lawspeaker Hrörekr convened the "Ægir's Thing", the fifth or Rurik's reign, in March 871 CE, on written orders from the King. Its main purpose was, according to Gumarich, to "discern the sacred purpose of our mighty King's mission to fulfil his obligation to the All-Father." It seems Rurik's chance encounter with Odin and his travels to the West have opened his eyes to the threat and power of rival heathen religions - especially that of the Christian One-God (although, confusingly, that God is reputed to manifest Himself in three different aspects).
"In time, as with physical combat, in matters of Religion the stronger, better prepared, best-armed and organised force will prevail," the King had written. "I fear our strong Norse Faith will be sorely tested by others, whether militant Christianity or Islam. And it pains me to see the Holy Sites of our Faith in the hands of infidels and heathens. Our longer term road to greatness may rest as much on our Spiritual strength as that of our sword-arms. Look you, oh Wise of the Realm, to the future and how best we may fulfil the Destiny placed on us by the All-Father and the other Ægir, lest they find us wanting at the end."
With that heavy Doom placed upon them, the Lawspeaker opens the Thing.
Well it' possible to do most things in one lifetime but not without immense amounts of cheese. I'l be hnest though, you need that Rus kingdom at least first. And probably take as much of Scandinavia as possible (where all the pagans are) and eastern Europe.
I think you may be right - Rurik needs to build the powerbase first to generate the force to take the Holy Sites. Whether he can achieve both, or at least one and start on the next, in his lifetime, I'll just have to wait and see. But he at least envisions his dynasty making the attempt, I think.
First, love the picture you paint. Bones on the floor, foamy mead in the horns, raiders and long ships and looting. You are having fun with King Rurik.
Second, I think in order of Reform Paganism @TheButterflyComposer is right - you have to take over much of Europe in order to do that. We are talking a few generations likely. OR a never-ending series of wars.
Yes, the Vikings are fun and one has to strain a bit to embrace the mindset . I wouldn't be inviting them to a modern-day dinner party! Yes, the reform is likely to be a generational thing, but in the longer term at least it sounds necessary.
Can’t really add to the points as I’ve never played vikings in this game. It’s very interesting though. Sounds like people ate As split as you whether to reform the faith or no...
I liked the dispatching of the non-Norse commander. Made me chuckle
I think it seems to be 'right now' vs 'in the mid-long term'. I don't know the game well enough to make a confident judgement of the art of the possible yet - hence the gratitude for the wise advisers of the Thing! Yes, I enjoyed that little bit: tried to think (with the raw material the game so richly provides) how Vsemil might interpret his dismissal. A bit put out, but not too much so, happy to be away from a King he can no longer feel confident in supporting. Surprisingly unaffected by his two brothers having been ousted too!
I think everyone wants to see you do it, it's just impractical for you to do it right now (or I guess, if you want to turn this into a Challange AAr as well as a tutorial one, perfectly alright). Your a small realm, surrounded by small realms and you want to expand. Of course old gods helps there. And then you become a big state, surrounded by big states, so you want to reform the religion. In gameplay terms, because of your start date, this should actually be around the time crusades start to happen, which means you have a better defence against them (your own religion spreads much faster) and you can keep a bigger realm together for longer in some of the bigger wars that will come your way due to you being a large pagan power in the middle of Christian Europe.
My thinking was starting to head that way, and your arguments help crystallise it. Will see if it ever becomes possible, whether for Rurik or a successor (after they stabilise the realm if the succession is nasty).
Well. Reforming the faith is a tough task (nothing worthwhile is ever easy) but definitely doable. You're in a bit of a bad spot to start immediately, but a couple of things to watch out for. First, if any of the coastal holy sites (Uppsala, Naumadal, Zeeland, or Sjaelland I believe are the correct counties) have a weak ruler or are independent, I'm pretty sure you can use the coastal conquest CB against another Norse ruler to snipe the county. I'd not advise a holy war for the duchy that Zeeland is in against a Catholic if it is under Catholic control. Second, you can use a Subjugation CB against another ruler (once per ruler lifetime IIRC). You're probably going to use that one in the Russia area with Rurik, so it's unlikely at best that you'll have it available for Rurik himself. But his heirs can use it on Sweden or Denmark if the opportunity is there.
For now it's mostly if you see the opportunity to go for 3 of them in a short timeframe, take it. Otherwise I'd let it lie until your heir takes over and then reevaluate the situation. You're stuck in Gavelkind, and your peripheral counties go to younger children, so you'll very likely lose any conquered holy sites upon succession if you don't quite make it to the reformation. Reforming the faith will eventually be a mandatory goal as you're stuck in tribalism and, as good as it is now, feudal will eventually be massively better. Immediate goal for me, within Rurik's lifetime, would be forming Russia (or whatever the de jure kingdom you are in is) and then focusing on Reformed Germanic, or another mainstream faith if you so choose, afterwards. Staying Norse is the important bit as it's an excessively powerful culture.
If you're lucky, one of the Scandinavian rulers will reform it for you, but I wouldn't count on it. It does happen more often now since the Jade Dragon free patch, but it's still a roll of the dice.
If you or another Norse ruler happen to pick up 3 holy sites somehow, raid temples for MA and don't worry about the other rulers and what they fail at. Focus on what you can control.
Very useful advice. Alas, at the moment, Zeeland is awash with thousands of rebels! But it could be a useful target of opportunity later: let's say for strategic or diplomatic reasons I can only get two of the Norse-held Holy Sites under control, I'm thinking it may be possible to do a quick raid on Zeeland, take it and (even if I can't then hold onto it long term) use it to get the reform done, then pack up and leave if too badly threatened by Crusading Christians.
For now, as you say, the Kingdom of Rus (Russia is the de jure Empire name) looks like the first main objective, but with a thread of reforming zeal weaving it through everything.
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Ch12 Q1: Reforming Paganism. I know we have touched on this before, but now Rurik is focusing on this matter more. I gather, for the longer-term benefits (succession laws especially), reform or conversion to another organised religion is probably required. Some general questions first: So, if Rurik (or a successor) reforms Norse Paganism, he would become the Fylkir (head) of it? If so, is that an hereditary or appointed title thereafter – and is it very useful (it looks it)? Reforming would lose some advantages, but it seems that would be outweighed by the benefits – at the right time (ie when the first wave of expansion is done). Whether by conquest or other means, how easy/realistic is it to at least get the three Scandinavian Holy Sites? Two are in the hands of Ragnar’s sons – and Björn Ironside is Rurik’s father-in-law. As for piety, Rurik currently has 244: I presume the 750 requirement is additional to the Holy Site/moral authority criteria? Again, is that a pipe dream, or realistic with the right strategy?
1. Fylkir is inheritable. Being able to call great holy wars can be quite useful. Think "Norse crusades" or better yet "Norse crusades for lands you want".
My personal belief is that playing pagan means that you should reform your religion. And since Rurik is a zealot, I would expect him to put it as an high priority. It's perferctly possible in one lifetime, since three of the required holy sites are under minor lords, and if you raid and conquer enough you can easily get the count to fifty percent. Again, my only advice if you go for it is to not touch the one in Germany for now, because it will trigger holy wars. As for the others, your tie with Bjorn makes it harder but not impossible to obtain.
And I mean, the advantages are way above the disadvantages, you get free holy wars, if you get Stettin the Jormsviking are basically an extra army, the Fylkir trait is really useful and let's not forget that you can get rid of gavelkind.
I think Rurik will do it if he thinks he can or set up his heir to pursue the reform dream if he can't. Looks like taking the German site would produce some bad juju from those troublesome Christians, yes, but Stettin and the Jormsviking order would be handy. Getting rid of Gavelkind would be one of - perhaps the paramount reason for me.
Getting the three Scandinavian sites is easy enough, and the raiding will eventually raise moral authority to sufficient levels. Of course, you might be unlucky and have others of your faith get setbacks which puts you back .... just have to keep raiding one church after the other.
By the looks, getting the sites will be harder than getting the MA up, though that of course could change. Just need to get strong enough first to take and hold them and a cunning plan to get them.
As the others have said, it's difficult but doable. You do need to directly control three holy sites yourself, and every other germanic ruler's action affect the moral authority.
Ch12 Q2: Moral Authority.So I’m assuming here what others of the Norse persuasion do has the same impact on overall authority as Rurik’s actions. So, to a certain extent, he would also be hostage to the actions of others in trying to keep MA high, while at the same time trying to gain the Holy Sites and build piety for a possible future Reformation. Seems a tall order to me, but don’t know how that kind of project normally proceeds and over what timeline.
2. Yeah, that's true. The actions of others do influence the moral authority of the entire religion for better or worse. All you can do is press on regardless. It's possible to reform within one lifetime. Some players make a point of that. You're not so wildly far from managing it with Rurik if you keep raiding.
Yes, every germanic pagan contributes to moral authority. On the plus side this means that every victory, even those of lord Nobody of Somewhere, gets moral authority to your faith, but on the minus side every defeat of lord Nobody II of SomewhereElse makes the faith lose points as well. It's usually better to get moral authority a little above 60%, just in case the above lord does something stupid.
Noted. Will keep an eye on it if/when the Holy Site objectives come into sight.
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Ch12 Q3: General Advice and Comment.While a raft of specific new questions, religion aside, have not been raised, the King would appreciate any views on recent events, future concerns or ideas for the development of the realm. And the author would be pleased to hear any readers’ views on how the translation and dramatization of the Rurikid scroll trove is proceeding: comments on the content and focus, or question they may have of the scholars undertaking this work.
Thank you - AARs are good for that, especially if directed to some of the nitty-gritties (all are written for different reasons, each valid. Many of my favourites are narratives that don't delve too deeply into the mechanics, just enough to make the story happen.
Well first of all I really like this AAR, I am finding out a lot of things I didn't know and at the same time I hope I am being helpful to you and others.
As for any future suggestion, I would say you are doing fine, maybe try to raid Ireland for extra cash before going home after the Devon invasion, and if I can suggest another point of interest, try to look for any war in the Mediterranean Sea, and if there is any plunder those lands.
Glad of the first point and yes, you are being very helpful - to me, and I'm sure many other readers too. Ireland will be done as a round trip to fill up the fleet with treasure on the way back home after Devon is done with (or if driven off by the appearance of a large Saxon army). Now that Rurik has far more experience raiding, he may well consider going even further afield next time - given it was done historically. The other thing I'm interested in (and other contributors have mentioned it once or twice) is an inland river raid. Have seen some historical accounts of the raid on Paris ...
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Editors Note:I wanted to get that Thing done before Christmas - and, unlike Rurik, I wish you all a merry one or a wonderful holiday period if that is more apposite. And a happy New Year to all! A big thank you one and all (readers and commenters alike) for your support for this project. The investment of your precious time is greatly appreciated.
Rurik and his Merrie Men will be back some time after Christmas. Until then, may the All-Father look over you.
750 piety should be easy. Holy War some pagans, but hit weak faiths for them and watch out for others of that faith dogpiling you. It can turn nasty quickly if you're not careful.
3 Scandinavian sites aren't a lark either. You have to declare war on the top liege. So if Zeeland is held by a single county Count in the HRE, you'll be at war with the Emperor for a single holy site. If Ragnar's kids are independent you should be able to go get them. Bjorn you'e got a NAP so no luck there. Watch out for alliances, too. It'll be a nice tangled web, so hit the weak ones when the opportunity presents itself.
I seem to recall that if you sacrifice actual christian priests during the blot, you get extra piety (as compared to a regular christian), but I want to confirm this for myself before I give you a definitive response.
Hello. Just looking through AARs and yours caught my eye. Mostly skimming through, but I don't seem to see anyone mention Rurik's eldest son. He is a Slavic pagan as opposed to Rurik being a Germanic/Norse pagan. I am fairly certain you cannot demand conversion, but your godi should be able to convert him or your capital province. If the godi converts the capital province, then you(having Sons of Abraham) could convert to Germanic/Norse by decision if and when the son inherits. This won't be possible if he is zealous.
edit: Forgot to mention that this is only relevant if you don't want to continue as Slavic. Being Slavic would reduce opinion penalties with your Slavic vassals and neighbors, as well as giving you holy sites closer to your realm. However, you would lose access to overseas raiding.
Hello. Just looking through AARs and yours caught my eye. Mostly skimming through, but I don't seem to see anyone mention Rurik's eldest son. He is a Slavic pagan as opposed to Rurik being a Germanic/Norse pagan. I am fairly certain you cannot demand conversion, but your godi should be able to convert him or your capital province. If the godi converts the capital province, then you(having Sons of Abraham) could convert to Germanic/Norse by decision if and when the son inherits. This won't be possible if he is zealous.
edit: Forgot to mention that this is only relevant if you don't want to continue as Slavic. Being Slavic would reduce opinion penalties with your Slavic vassals and neighbors, as well as giving you holy sites closer to your realm. However, you would lose access to overseas raiding.
Second: that’s a really good point - I hadn’t really focused on that, and I should. Can’t have a heathen as heir! The Godi is currently in the process of trying to convert the home county and has been for some months. Helgi isn’t zealous (yet anyway) and we’ve been shaping up as Norse ... though I guess that (Helgi being Slavic) is there for the option to ‘go Slavic’ for the future of Rus. You have given food for thought - if not a Slavic future, then Helgi either needs to convert, or be replaced but a Norse heir!
