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Perhaps Argentina/La Plata rapidly industrializes, grows, and becomes like the USA of this Timeline. The south could be the Union, with the border just north of Buenos Aires. The north would be the confederacy, and the west would be the old west. The French Intervention could be of Peru, who would probably border Argentina by then.
 
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Perhaps Argentina/La Plata rapidly industrializes, grows, and becomes like the USA of this Timeline. The south could be the Union, with the border just north of Buenos Aires. The north would be the confederacy, and the west would be the old west. The French Intervention could be of Peru, who would probably border Argentina by then.

That Peru is actually Inca, so Europe has no right to dabble in their affairs. :D And France certainly wouldn't be trying to install monarchies anywhere. That's practically counterrevolutionary! Sounds more up Spain's alley. I'll try to think of a good country for a civil war. I think I have a good idea in mind.
 
It seems like Sweden have occupied atleast southern Norway and all of Denmark, so I would guess that we might see an unified Scandinavia at some point? Also, Finland, if they don't manage to stay independant in some way, I would imagine that either Scandinavia/Sweden would eat them up, or Russia. Or that Scandinavia/Sweden goes to war over Finland against Russia or vice versa.
Western Venice seems like it would be eaten up by France, while the rest will be divided by Italy, Tirol, Sardinia-Piedmont and the tiny southern piece to Greece, if Italy don't dabble in Greece's affairs. And lastly, I would guess that Serbia will be in conflict with Italy or Hungary and Ruthenia will be gobbled up by Lithuania. But that's just my ideas :)
 
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I've been working diligently on the post-1821 history for this AAR. I've written events for how the world changes to create the borders I prefer up to 1900. The thing I'm missing are some good internal/domestic events. I have enough wars to make the border changes I need, but I need some flavour to spice things up. Are there any historical events or fictional situations that people would like to see happen between 1821 and 1900? I need some ideas, so suggest away. :)

Well you've made an impressive job on the narrative side of this AAR's end, and your alternate France looks pretty realistic on its own, while following some kind of parallel path towards what we know of OTL's history. I hadn't expected Monsieur du Fournay to become the one who would both destroy the old Holy Roman Empire and fund a new one by himself. But he did it, just like Napoleon.

The only thing that I missed is the use of guillotine :p. That amount of slaughtering you've depicted would have been as bloody, but probably less painful for everyone, with Dr Guillotin's wonderful humanistic invention :D.

My suggestion for internal politic details is that you keep on working with the mechanics (or logic or fate) that you've been applying to your characters so far. The Jacobins and St Chamond were extremists and went too far, until it logically came to a bad end for them. Meanwhile Jean du Fournay has quite wisely taken the power and restored public order, carefully preserving the appearances of the Republic (just like the very first Roman emperor Augustus did ;)). Now he has to think about the future and lucid as he seems to be, he will know that the weakness of his political work is that it all relies on him alone and his personal skills (Machiavel has taught some good lessons about that : one brilliant individual might reform a state on his own, but after him, everything is bound to return to collective stupidity and collapse into chaos again).

He has no legitimacy, he must find a decent heir by any means before he dies... and anyway, he knows that he just cannot fail. Napoleon was quite aware about that too, saying that the kings he was fighting were born kings - they could lose a war and harmlessly return to the throne God had given them, while he was coming from nowhere and could just win or die. And that's what happened to him, eventually.

I think that regardless of his merit Jean du Fournay will have the same kind of fate. You don't build a new dynasty on the ruins of a Republic ; if they are to return to monarchy, people will support the old monarchs instead. Unless they give another try to a Republic... That's how OTL France, after 1815, had 2 last kings from the Bourbon family, then another short Revolution (1830), then another king, then another revolution (1848), then another republic, then another Empire, then another revolution (1870), then another Republic (which finally would last 70 years before WW II).

I guess despite of its probable success on the European theater, your France will know the same kind of turmoil, with the Girondins and Jacobins coming back, du Fournay's family members trying to take advantage of his legacy, some influence from abroad as well - former vassals gaining assurance on internal affairs, allies dragging France into other wars (I would see something interesting around Italy's irredentism in the Balkans, perhaps trying to turn France against Hungary...). It's up to you to make it happen :cool:.
 
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It seems like Sweden have occupied atleast southern Norway and all of Denmark, so I would guess that we might see an unified Scandinavia at some point? Also, Finland, if they don't manage to stay independant in some way, I would imagine that either Scandinavia/Sweden would eat them up, or Russia. Or that Scandinavia/Sweden goes to war over Finland against Russia or vice versa.
Western Venice seems like it would be eaten up by France, while the rest will be divided by Italy, Tirol, Sardinia-Piedmont and the tiny southern piece to Greece, if Italy don't dabble in Greece's affairs. And lastly, I would guess that Serbia will be in conflict with Italy or Hungary and Ruthenia will be gobbled up by Lithuania. But that's just my ideas :)

Scandinavia will always be a mess as long as the AI is in charge, I can promise that. As for Finland, they're actually a vassal of Russia, so Sweden would have to go against Russia to truly unify the region.

I have no intention of letting Venice ruin borders like that. There are so many nations I must cleanse in the post-history. :p

You have to clear that Eastern Border soon.
It makes me want to cry to see Lorraine, Franche-Comté not in France while you annex the Lowlands :p

Well France cannot go gallivanting about without unifying the French people as well. Lorraine is being integrated as they should be after who knows how long as a vassal. And France will need a land connection to those new provinces, so.... :D

Well you've made an impressive job on the narrative side of this AAR's end, and your alternate France looks pretty realistic on its own, while following some kind of parallel path towards what we know of OTL's history. I hadn't expected Monsieur du Fournay to become the one who would both destroy the old Holy Roman Empire and fund a new one by himself. But he did it, just like Napoleon.

The only thing that I missed is the use of guillotine :p. That amount of slaughtering you've depicted would have been as bloody, but probably less painful for everyone, with Dr Guillotin's wonderful humanistic invention :D.

My suggestion for internal politic details is that you keep on working with the mechanics (or logic or fate) that you've been applying to your characters so far. The Jacobins and St Chamond were extremists and went too far, until it logically came to a bad end for them. Meanwhile Jean du Fournay has quite wisely taken the power and restored public order, carefully preserving the appearances of the Republic (just like the very first Roman emperor Augustus did ;)). Now he has to think about the future and lucid as he seems to be, he will know that the weakness of his political work is that it all relies on him alone and his personal skills (Machiavel has taught some good lessons about that : one brilliant individual might reform a state on his own, but after him, everything is bound to return to collective stupidity and collapse into chaos again).

He has no legitimacy, he must find a decent heir by any means before he dies... and anyway, he knows that he just cannot fail. Napoleon was quite aware about that too, saying that the kings he was fighting were born kings - they could lose a war and harmlessly return to the throne God had given them, while he was coming from nowhere and could just win or die. And that's what happened to him, eventually.

I think that regardless of his merit Jean du Fournay will have the same kind of fate. You don't build a new dynasty on the ruins of a Republic ; if they are to return to monarchy, people will support the old monarchs instead. Unless they give another try to a Republic... That's how OTL France, after 1815, had 2 last kings from the Bourbon family, then another short Revolution (1830), then another king, then another revolution (1848), then another republic, then another Empire, then another revolution (1870), then another Republic (which finally would last 70 years before WW II).

I guess despite of its probable success on the European theater, your France will know the same kind of turmoil, with the Girondins and Jacobins coming back, du Fournay's family members trying to take advantage of his legacy, some influence from abroad as well - former vassals gaining assurance on internal affairs, allies dragging France into other wars (I would see something interesting around Italy's irredentism in the Balkans, perhaps trying to turn France against Hungary...). It's up to you to make it happen :cool:.

I completely forgot about the guillotine. It wouldn't have really fit here though since it wasn't the government causing the chaos per-say.

I'll admit that internal politics start taking a backseat from here on. Most of du Fournay's focus will be outside of France. Nationalism for everyone! :D

I'm not quite sure how to make use of Italy and the Balkans. While I know they owned almost the whole region before, it looks so much better under Greece. Pretty borders come first. :p
 
I completely forgot about the guillotine. It wouldn't have really fit here though since it wasn't the government causing the chaos per-say.

I'll admit that internal politics start taking a backseat from here on. Most of du Fournay's focus will be outside of France. Nationalism for everyone! :D

I'm not quite sure how to make use of Italy and the Balkans. While I know they owned almost the whole region before, it looks so much better under Greece. Pretty borders come first. :p

What is remarkable with the guillotine is the role it played as a unique end place for everyone, both the Girondins and later on the Jacobins who had sentenced them to death. This cold and merciless equalizing machine might have been the true ruler of the Revolution after all :p.

I wasn't especially thinking about Greece since they have quite pretty and legitimate borders here. They would have set free sooner or later anyway, as they did in 1830 in OTL. But Italy could claim to have a continuous coastline along the Adriatic sea for instance, hence the conflict they could be tempted to drag France in, against Venice... and Hungary !
 
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What is remarkable with the guillotine is the role it played as a unique end place for everyone, both the Girondins and later on the Jacobins who had sentenced them to death. This cold and merciless equalizing machine might have been the true ruler of the Revolution after all :p.

I wasn't especially thinking about Greece since they have quite pretty and legitimate borders here. They would have set free sooner or later anyway, as they did in 1830 in OTL. But Italy could claim to have a continuous coastline along the Adriatic sea for instance, hence the conflict they could be tempted to drag France in, against Venice... and Hungary !

Well I'd like to think this Revolution is much less bloody. The king was deposed overnight the Republic was fairly stable for the most part, when the Jacobins weren't stirring up trouble. The preferred method of death and destruction seems to be arson here. :D

The Italians would have to be idiots to attack Hungary. That means war with France, and we've seen what happens when you tangle with France and lose. :p
 
All caught-up now—very nice read. :)

Thanks. I hope you didn't have to read through a ton of updates. This AAR seems to go on forever. :p
 
It did take a while, but I don't regret it (yet). Eager to see how France's revolution reaches its climax.
 
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It did take a while, but I don't regret it (yet). Eager to see how France's revolution reaches its climax.

The rise and fall of the Republic and dismantling of the HRE doesn't count as a climax? :D
 
The Italians would have to be idiots to attack Hungary. That means war with France, and we've seen what happens when you tangle with France and lose. :p

Well you imagine I was not meaning this ;). But what if France would have to choose between Italy and Hungary ? Hungary, a loyal vassal for decades, but increasingly interfering in France's internal affairs, with arrogant Hungarian people trying to gain influence in Paris ; and dragging France into embarrassing situations on foreign affairs, with their repeated border disputes and questionable provincial claims in remote parts of Eastern Europe, against Lithuania (or worse, Russia)... whereas Italy, a brilliant, wealthy and powerful neighbor and ally, with very strong ties to French culture, would rightfully crave for achieving its national unification. Italian speaking people of the Adriatic coast would be encouraged to address petitions to the French government, calling upon the precedent of France retroceding Roma to Italia, and say : "you wouldn't want to oblige us to speak French then, while it's a very close language to Italian ; why on Earth should we have to speak that gibberish Hungarian language any longer now ?"

Your nationalist France will eventually have to face that kind of debate, and it could become quite unpleasant. Nationalism can easily incite to xenophobia and preference towards who looks like you the most. This very statement has been Europe's damnation all along the XXth century, and so could it be in your alternate world. As famous French writer Romain Gary said : "le patriotisme, c'est l'amour des siens ; le nationalisme, c'est la haine des autres" (patriotism is about loving your kind ; nationalism is about hating the others). He kinda knew what he was talking about, since he was born Roman Kacew, a Lithuanian Jew in Vilnius, before fighting Nazism in the ranks of French Résistance, and becoming one of the most prominent representative of French literature :cool:.
 
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Well you imagine I was not meaning this ;). But what if France would have to choose between Italy and Hungary ? Hungary, a loyal vassal for decades, but increasingly interfering in France's internal affairs, with arrogant Hungarian people trying to gain influence in Paris ; and dragging France into embarrassing situations on foreign affairs, with their repeated border disputes and questionable provincial claims in remote parts of Eastern Europe, against Lithuania (or worse, Russia)... whereas Italy, a brilliant, wealthy and powerful neighbor and ally, with very strong ties to French culture, would rightfully crave for achieving its national unification. Italian speaking people of the Adriatic coast would be encouraged to address petitions to the French government, calling upon the precedent of France retroceding Roma to Italia, and say : "you wouldn't want to oblige us to speak French then, while it's a very close language to Italian ; why on Earth should we have to speak that gibberish Hungarian language any longer now ?"

Your nationalist France will eventually have to face that kind of debate, and it could become quite unpleasant. Nationalism can easily incite to xenophobia and preference towards who looks like you the most. This very statement has been Europe's damnation all along the XXth century, and so could it be in your alternate world. As famous French writer Romain Gary said : "le patriotisme, c'est l'amour des siens ; le nationalisme, c'est la haine des autres" (patriotism is about loving your kind ; nationalism is about hating the others). He kinda knew what he was talking about, since he was born Roman Kacew, a Lithuanian Jew in Vilnius, before fighting Nazism in the ranks of French Résistance, and becoming one of the most prominent representative of French literature :cool:.

Well I certainly hope they don't face that dilemma. Both Hungary and Italy can benefit from French benevolence. I like to think that this world is much more perfect than ours. :)
 
The German Wars

Not much happened right after joining Magdeburg’s war. The Emperor ordered a reorganization of the armed forces. All regular regiments were ordered to Ile-de-France for reassignment, while the mercenary forces were sent to Hainaut to take the province before the rest were sent off to the help Magdeburg. This was merely a continuation of the old policy of favouring mercenaries to cut down on French losses. Only 20,000 more men were needed to fill the ranks of the army now. Emperor Jean didn’t want to put more stress on them, so he ordered that the normal army be used for defensive purposes for this war while the mercenaries did the dirty work. The mercenary forces were split into five separate armies of at least 15 regiments. One was left behind in Hainaut, two were sent to occupy Nassau and Hesse, while the other two would go north to aid Magdeburg.

The Emperor continued to try to smooth over relations with old allies by arranging a royal marriage with Saxony. Once that was dealt with, an alliance was signed. Saxony was still bitter over the end of the HRE, but not enough to turn aside a French alliance.

France’s reputation was starting to go downhill in the eyes of its other neighbours. Many of the old monarchies of Europe ridiculed the Emperor for giving in to the people and following this revolution nonsense. It did little to deter the Emperor though, who knew his methods were fair and just.



The first engagement with the enemy occurred in Holstein where a French army ambushed one of Luneburg’s army. The enemy was sent on the run, but caught in Hamburg and wiped out. It was also at this time that the foreign ministry was chastised for not only failing to catch that Luneburg had annexed Bremen, but that Sweden was at war with Norway and Denmark with almost all their European provinces under occupation.

The French forces in the north marched east when word reached them of a major battle with Hesse. Magdeburg and Lithuania had the numbers, but French assistance could better ensure that the enemy was crushed. Hesse took plenty of losses, but too much of their army got away.



The enemy proved predicable in their retreat methods. The enemy was easily followed to Hannover, where they were defeated. They attempted to flee north, but were caught in Luneburg. One more battle in Hannover and the enemy army was eliminated. With the enemy forces wiped out, a siege of all enemy provinces was ordered. Magdeburg could focus on retaking their own land while France handled the enemy.

While the war was going well, the Emperor was quite distraught. His uncle had passed away. He greatly mourned the man, who had been a major influence on his life. Life had to go on though, so he filled the empty advisor position with a theologian who preached ways that religious and revolutionary thought could complement each other. Many outside France might consider such ideas radical, but for the bulk of French people this comforted them that religion and the Revolution were not completely incompatible.



Namur fell to French control at the start of February in 1810, but the Emperor’s mind was on other things. He went before the National Assembly with a new plan. He wanted to attack Flanders, one of the few nations remaining within the Low Countries. The idea was not met too enthusiastically. One war seemed enough. Emperor Jean stressed though that this war would be easily won and would coordinate well with the current war. Attacking Flanders would draw in Hansa, Liege, and Oldenburg. This would put France at war with almost all the remaining small independent states in northern Germany and the Low Countries. This was a perfect opportunity to clean up the whole area by dividing all the province between France, Trier, and Magdeburg. With France’s armies already in the area with the current war, this could easily be accomplished. The National Assembly saw no problem with this explanation. France would go to war once again for nationalism.



The French army at Ile-de-France was sent north under the command of General Maximiliem de Rieu to take out Flanders’ army. De Rieu did his job better than expected and wiped out the enemy army to a man, despite its size. Two sizeable armies were left behind to siege while de Rieu took the rest east. Liege’s army was chased, but Trier caught them in Limburg. They stood no chance against the combined might of France and Trier. With a siege army in Liege, de Rieu continued north to handle Hansa. Their army in Bremen stood no chance. The army was split to handle both Bremen and Hamburg. Trier was dealing with Oldenburg for the moment, and Lubeck would have to wait for when more men were free.

While General de Rieu was washing the enemy aside with ease, a massive gold deposit was found within France, adding even more funds to the overflowing treasury. It was around this time that Frankfurt and Sicily decided that France was too much of a threat. France’s economic power, combined with its constant warmongering for the nationalist cause, had worried nations across Europe. Thus Frankfurt and Sicily started a coalition against France. This was met with laughs in the capital, since what could those two do against the might of France. If anything, it only further emboldened the Emperor. To show off the true economic might of France, he arranged trade agreements with both Italy Saxony, where they would transfer 15% and 25% of their trade to France respectively.



Some foolish peasants rose up in Liege, mistaking the French army for their oppressors. They did not find General Alexandre des Ecures very forgiving.

With the National Assembly building burnt down, they had not had an official meeting place since. The Emperor had been convening court in numerous locations. This was getting to be too bothersome. In June of 1810, he ordered the construction of a royal palace, one where the court could operate permanently. This project was given further importance when Jean’s Italian wife gave birth to a baby son. The Emperor had an heir.

Emperor Jean had put great importance on improving the tactics and technology of the army. While he had greatly funded such efforts, it was starting to become clear that such efforts would be pointless if the army didn’t have enough men to fill the ranks. Funds were thus diverted from reform efforts to encourage recruitment instead. It was hoped that soon French men from all over would be willing to serve their country. The results took time, but it seemed that France would not have manpower issues for many years. In fact, Jean pushed ahead recruitment efforts by ordering the formation of almost 30 new regiments, from a mix of the population and mercenaries. The army was undersized and needed a boost.



Rebels attempted to disrupt the siege in Nassau. They were easily crushed and the success of the siege army only emboldened the one next door, who captured Hesse’s capital of Hessen. Nassau fell a few days later. With Hesse fully occupied, the Emperor considered peace. France had been screwed over before when an ally arranged a peace without taking French interests into consideration. That would not be allowed to happen again. With assurances that Magdeburg could well handle the war on its own now, Emperor Jean arranged a separate peace with Hesse. Hainaut would give its only province of Namur to France, while Nassau would go to Trier. The alliance with Luneburg would also end and war reparations would be paid. The region had become a bit cleaner.

With one war over, focus could be shifted elsewhere. The Emperor wanted to ensure the navy wasn’t neglected. He made it his mission to ensure the French fleet had more heavy ships than any other nation. Only Haiti had more with 45 to France’s 40. Jean would ensure that number was topped.



With the war with Hesse over, the siege armies in Luneburg were free to move on Hansa. Aid was sent to Lubeck where a Hungarian army was engaging Hansa’s. They were sent on the run, but most of the enemy forces had been eliminated.

Emperor Jean had been considering a dilemma. The coalition against France had bothered him. The audacity of Sicily and Frankfurt to declare France a threat could not be let go. France would show them what happened to nations that dared consider a coalition against France. It also helped that both those nations rightfully belonged under the rule of another power. It would be like hitting two birds with one stone.



An army had stayed behind near Hesse and was in perfect position to attack Frankfurt. Their army was engaged by the Emperor himself, who chased the enemy down and eliminated them in Mainz before returning to siege the city.

Hansa made the mistake of attacking the siege army in Hamburg. All of France’s allies converged on the point, dooming Hansa’s army. They wouldn’t be interfering anymore. Hamburg fell two months later to better show that. Hansa’s navy fared no better once forced from port.

Meanwhile, down in Sicily, an army was landed on the island in Messina before half was sent to Palermo at the enemy army. The enemy fared no better here and ended up retreating right into the army in Messina.

Recruitment continued at home with massive amounts of regiments and mercenaries being formed to ensure France had the greatest army in Europe. The plan was to reach 200 regiments in total, which wasn’t too far off.



Liege fell in August of 1811, but despite having their only province occupied, they refused to accept the annexation of their nation. It would seem that they needed to be worn down first and their allies crushed. How annoying.

General Alexandre des Ecures passed away in October. He was given a state funeral to pay respect to such a great man. A replacement could not be found to fit his shoes. However, they did name a model of the newly developed rifle after him in his honour.

Emperor Jean would soon accomplish his goal of France having the largest fleet of heavy ships in the world. He celebrated this accomplishment briefly before moving onto the next plan. The conflict that had brought him to power made him realize that France, or at least Paris, needed some form of national guard to prevent riots and rebellion from occurring again. It would take time to implement the idea, but it was next on his list.

Vlaanderen fell in December, freeing the army up to aid the siege of Ghent. Or at least that was the plan before rebels rose up in Armor and Utrecht. The first wanted the return of the Republic, while the second wanted the independence of Utrecht. Neither could be allowed. The rebellions were crushed.



Rebels continued to be a problem, but in occupied provinces. Peasants in Messina interrupted the siege, while more rose up in Vlaanderen. Fortunately for France, Inca had an army in the second provinces, although no one was sure why. All they knew was that the Incans took out the rebels for them and they were grateful for it. East Frisia fell shortly after.

In June of 1812, Emperor Jean decided to make use of France’s overflowing treasury. The Revolution and France’s wars had strained relations with some of France’s friends. Jean intended to grant all of France’s friends some ducats to show their appreciation of their friends. Hundreds of ducats were sent to Italy, Saxony, Magdeburg, Hungary, Trier, and Lithuania. All the nations accepted the gifts graciously and with much thanks.

Frankfurt fell in July and Sicily started begging for peace. Jean intended to deal with them both once Sicily was fully occupied. Lubeck fell in September, the same month that Magdeburg settled a peace with Hesse. Much to the pleasure of the National Assembly, Magdeburg finished the job and wiped Hesse off the map.



Mercenaries, as they always had, continued to plunder the occupied provinces. The government, like every one before it, ignored this situation as long as it benefited France. What the Emperor didn’t ignore was his plan to create the National Guard. A camp was put under construction for the order in Paris and an army reformer was hired to oversee the creation of it.

Bremen fell in February of 1813, but Emperor Jean was also considering more ways to consolidate Europe into nation states. Northern Germany was well underway, but what about the south? The small state of Alsace currently had only Trier as an ally, but as long as Trier fought alongside France they would not intervene. Alsace seemed better suited to be under France’s or Lorraine’s rule. It was Jean’s duty to ensure the Germans did not get their hand on a province that should be French. Thus France got embroiled in its third war all in the name of nationalism. Could France handle so many wars without overextending itself, and more importantly how would the rest of Europe react?

 
Interesting. Jean is doing pretty much everything Napoleon did in real life. The only thing left would be to invade Russia and fight Great Scotland.
I'm surprised nobody made a "Great Scott!" joke yet.
 
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Interesting. Jean is doing pretty much everything Napoleon did in real life. The only thing left would be to invade Russia and fight Great Scotland.
I'm surprised nobody made a "Great Scott!" joke yet.

Well we started out at war with Russia, so does that count. :D

We have to go back... back to the future! :p
 
Feels like you are returning to your old style with the latest update. Guess that concludes the fun bit of narrative where we explored the French Revolution.
 
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Feels like you are returning to your old style with the latest update. Guess that concludes the fun bit of narrative where we explored the French Revolution.

Yeah, I started to run out ideas for the narrative by then. I certainly hope it isn't any less exciting though. :)
 
So I got some ideas. Mostly international but still. You mentioned that the revolutionists came from Great Scotland, perhaps the scotts haven't managed to expel all the revolutionaries, so perhaps there's a revolution in Great Scotland supported by France? Either it succeeds or it gets put down, with better or worse relations respectively. (If the scotts find out). And a similar thing in Iberia perhaps? With french support? A fun thing that could happen is Spain and Portugal unites and creates an Iberian Republic or something similar. And domestically you could have some tensions between ethnic groups that need to get solved (especially now with all the new territories added) or a rampant disease? Perhaps even a radical thing like the assassination of emperor Fournay?
Later in the post-history, if the nationalism continue, maybe a world war would break out, similar to how nationalism played a large part in World War 1 in OTL. Just sprouting some ideas :)
 
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