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Main Titles

AxolotlKnight

Second Lieutenant
Mar 16, 2019
193
234

STAR WARS

AN EMPIRE ADRIFT

It is a dark time for the galaxy. In the aftermath of the Clone Wars
the former Republic has given way to the GALACTIC EMPIRE,
led by the evil EMPEROR PALPATINE.



As Imperial forces spread the Empire's new order across the galaxy,
the Emperor begins to set one of his plans into motion. An armada
made up of thousands of military and civilian ships has been sent
to investigate an infamous phenomenon known as the ANOMALY.



The armada, led by ADMIRAL ARAN SIDYR and
CAPTAIN GILAD PELLAEON, carefully approaches its destination,
blissfully unaware of the life-changing consequences
it shall bring...





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Hello everyone and welcome to my new Stellaris AAR An Empire Adrift! As the above title crawl says, this is based on the Star Wars Universe and will centre around a splinter group of the Galactic Empire. This AAR will be different from my other AAR A History of the Iron Throne because it will be written in the narrative style rather than the history book format. I hope you enjoy my attempt at creating a narrative story out of my journey into to Stellaris!






Contents
Prologue
Chapter1
 
Last edited:
Prologue

Prologue

Rule One: Obey your commanders. Rule Two: Uphold Republic Law. Rule Three: Serve the Senate and the People with all your strength, even to your last breath.” The mantra still ringed in Gilad's ears despite it being decades since he graduated from the Naval Academy at Anaxes. It had been peacetime then, before the Clone Wars and before the Empire. The vast majority of the officers who graduated with him were, so to speak, aliens, and all of them his equal. When the New Order was declared and the Empire established, those officers disappeared, dragged off by the newly minted Imperial Security Bureau. At the mandatory 're-education' course all human officers had to take after the war, there was a new mantra “Rule One: Obey your commanders. Rule Two: Uphold Imperial Law. Rule Three: Serve the Emperor with all your strength, even to your last breath.” The change in leadership had been beneficial to many of the human officers who served in the Clone Wars, including Gilad. He went from Lieutenant Pellaeon to Captain Pellaeon, though he was still stuck serving men higher than him on the chain of command. Rather than being granted his own ship, Gilad served as deputy to Admiral Aran Sidyr on the Star Destroyer Chimera.

Are you daydreaming, Captain?” shouted a familiar voice “Captain?” When the immediate disorientation lifted he realised he was still on the bridge of the Chimera, and the voice was Sidyr's.

Embarrassed, Gilad straightened his cap as he always did. “Sorry, Admiral. I was miles away.”

Sidyr grunted his disapproval “indeed you were, now get onto that terminal!”

When Gilad got to his terminal he was reminded of the scale of the fleet they were in and looked out of the bridge's window with amazement once again. An armada of a size Gilad had never seen before, it was fleet of hundreds of different types of ships. Star Destroyers and Dreadnoughts made up the bulk of the military force within the fleet, but there were also light escort ships like Carracks and Vindicators that hugged the flanks of the armada, protecting it from any would-be attackers. However, the vast majority of the fleet had no military capabilities at all and were instead carrying hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions, of people on board. The purpose of such a fleet was unknown to Gilad and, it seemed, to Sidyr as well. Despite their questions, they knew better than to ask why, especially since the order came from the Emperor himself, and because Sidyr had been granted the honour of being the commanding officer in charge of the operation, which meant technically Gilad was second in command of the entire fleet.


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What do the scanners say, Captain?” asked Sidyr as he looked out across the fleet.

All Gilad could see was a large pulsating ball of energy “the anomaly is straight ahead.”

The Admiral smiled “just as planned.” Striding across the command bridge, the Admiral inspected Gilad's terminal and inspected the anomaly. “It's larger than I expected” observed Sidyr “that should be...a good thing.” He didn't sound particularly sure, though Gilad wasn't surprised. No one seemed to know what it was. “I will contact the other Captains of the fleet and inform them of our next move.”

And what is our next move, sir?” asked Gilad as Sidyr walked away.

To proceed into the anomaly, as the Emperor commanded”. As Sidyr went to the holo room, Gilad’s thoughts turned to motives behind such a mission. The part of space they were in was infamous for its ability to cause ships to disappear without any trace, with evidence of such a phenomenon tracing back to the early days of the Republic. When the officers were told of where they were going discontent spread, though none dared speak out against a direct order from the Emperor himself.

Captain" said a voice behind Gilad. When he turned he saw Lieutenant Jaina Dryn standing to attention. “All TIE units have docked and the hangar bays have been closed.”

Good work, Lieutenant" responded Gilad.

Dryn replied with a curt nod “thank you, sir.”

When Dryn continued to look stern, Gilad leant in and whispered “you don’t have to be moody all the time, the admiral isn’t here.”

The Lieutenant let out a smirk “I know Gilad” she whispered back “but I don’t want people to know that we have relations, it would look bad.”

I suppose your right, for a captain-"

Not for you, you dolt.” She let out a cheeky smile and went to return to her station to the lower deck of the bridge. Gilad tried to hide his staring but he could see that some of Dryn's fellow Lieutenants noticed their attraction. They had tried to keep their relationship a secret as workplace romances were largely frowned upon by the admiralty, but sometimes, as Gilad had learnt, the attraction is too strong.



*BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP*


What the-” when Gilad turned around to look at his terminal, he noticed a large red pulsating ball where the anomaly had been. The Chimera's systems had noticed too and had begun to fling warnings onto the terminal's UI, all of which said one thing “DESTRUCTIVE ENERGY WAVE APPROACHING. SEEK EVACUATION IMMEDIATELY.” Before Gilad could call out the warning the bridge was blinded with white light, bringing the captain to his knees. All around him he could hear the pulsating buzzing of electricity, followed by screams and shouts. Seconds later the bridge began to shake violently and Gilad, still blinded, fell to the floor as he desperately tried to grab hold onto something. As he scrambled in the blank whiteness his hands found his terminal, but before he could pull himself up he felt a large bolt of pain scream across his body before he fell and was greeted with darkness.



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It was the familiar sounds of the Chimera's cooling vents that first greeted Gilad when he woke up, followed by the inevitable pins and needles one gets when sleeping for too long. As he looked around the room noticed he was not in the Star Destroyer's med bay, he was in his room. To make matters even more concerning the feeding tubes attached to his arms were nearly dry, and the life support system he was attached to was on its last legs. Concerned and disoriented, Gilad ripped free the countless tubes and wires attached to him and made his way to the door of his room. Just as he was about to open it the door lifted and he was greeted with the sight of a medical droid.

Captain Pellaeon” the droid said with monotone preciseness “you are conscious.”

Indeed I am” Gilad replied as he winced in pain “though I do feel a bit worse for wear.”

You will feel pain for a few weeks due to the damage the electricity caused to your nervous system. It will take time for the bacta to repair the nerves.” The droid lifted it's spindly arms and lunged it into Gilad's arm, injecting him with blue fluid. “This is your daily bacta shot, do not miss any until the two-week repair process has ended.” Rescinding its arm, the droid turned on its heel and walked off down the corridor.

An hour later, after Gilad had recovered from the extreme grogginess that followed being asleep for as long as he was, he put on his officer uniform and headed for the bridge. However, as soon as he entered one of the main corridors in the crew quarters he was stopped by a large throng of crew members. “Y-your...alive?” said one amazed engineer “it is so good to see you, sir!” exclaimed a tired officer. By the time he had shuffled past the crowd and had got to the elevator to the bridge, an officer was waiting for him.

So...you were expecting me?” Gilad's question seemed to amuse the young officer.

It was hard not to! News of your 'return' has spread like wildfire.” The officer, flanked by two stormtroopers, gestured towards the opened elevator “after you, Captain.” As the elevator ascended, Gilad inspected the officer's insignia on his chest. He knew instantly that he belonged to the Imperial Army, not Navy, due to the two cylinders either side of it. Though not as knowledgable of the Army than Navy, Gilad was fairly confident he was a colonel. As far as Gilad knew, there was no colonel onboard the Chimera the last he checked, in fact, there were no senior Army personnel at all.

So what brings you to the Chimera, colonel?”

The colonel smirked, “you will find out soon, sir.”

Sir?” Gilad said with surprise “You have the same rank as me, taking the chain of command into account.”

The colonel nodded “normally yes that would be the case. However...” the colonel shook his head “I have already said too much, you will find out why soon.”

Can you at least tell me your name?”

The colonel smiled “Sander, sir, Sander Delvardus.”

You are young to be a colonel, Sander” wondered Gilad aloud “you must be very talented.”

Before the colonel could answer the doors of the elevator slid open, exposing Gilad to the sounds of bickering. In the middle of the bridge was a table surrounded by around twenty officers, all of them shouting at the top of their lungs. It was so chaotic that Gilad could barely tell what any of them were saying. It was only when he and Colonel Delvardus approached the table that they began to quiet down.



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Delvardus stepped forward “may I introduce Captain Gilad Pellaeon, commanding officer of the Chimera.”

Executive officer” Gilad corrected him “Admiral Sidyr is the commander of this Star Destroyer.”

Was” replied a female Moff “he is dead.”

Suddenly Gilad could feel every nerve sear with pain “w-what?”

Bloody hell, Jaral,” said a female Admiral “he's not even recovered yet.”

The officer named Jaral chuckled “I didn't know you were so soft, Kidles.”

How did he die?” asked Gilad as he struggled to maintain his composure.

According to the Lieutenant who was in command of this ship after you collapsed, his body was found in the holo room with severe burns across his body.”

Jaral let out a slight laugh “It seemed he had been fried when the electric wave burst through the ship.”

Overwhelmed, Gilad rubbed his eyes as he tried to come to terms with the news “how long was I out?”

Just over a week” replied a male General “though you were not the only one. Many were injured during the surge.”

If Admiral Sidyr is dead, then who is in command?”

The General sighed and said “you, captain.”

Gilad was caught by surprise and struggled to answer “Me...I ca-can't I'm only-”

A captain?” finished Jaral “indeed you are, but none the less we must follow procedure. In Admiral Sidyr's command notes, he clearly stated that his XO would be in charge of this operation if he dies or is otherwise unable to lead.”

Gilad's head teemed with a thousand different questions, all of which he wanted to be answered, all of which would have to wait. He was now the leader, he reminded himself, and he had stuck to the task at hand. “Have you contacted Naval High Command about our situation.”

For a moment the room was quiet before Jaral shouted “anyone who does not have alpha command status, please exit this bridge immediately!” The majority of the assembled officers filtered out, leaving Gilad, Delvardus, and four officers in front of him. “Before we discuss our strategies for getting out of this mess, I believe formal introductions are in order. I am Moff Jaral Cirik, the woman to my right is Admiral Kidles Harsk, next to her is General Tremond Orek, and to his right-”

Doctor Liam Tabok” a hunched scrawny man said, “I work with the Imperial Research Bureau.”

A confused Gilad had forgotten their names as soon as he heard. “Good to meet you and all that but, and not to sound rude, could you please answer my question. Have you sent a distress signal?”

Doctor Tabok breathed in heavily before letting out a slow sigh. “We have, Captain, but to tell you the truth it won't do us any good.”

Gilad's patience for indirect answers had finally worn thin “Can you please just tell me what's happened, doctor.”

After a brief exchange of concern looks between Tabok and Moff Cirik, the doctor stood up and walked over to the main nav computer terminal. After a few presses of the myriad of buttons on the terminal, Tabok beckoned Gilad over. “I believe this will show the gravity of the situation.” When the captain got to the computer he a map of a spiral galaxy, the galaxy Gilad thought. It only took a few seconds for him to realise something was wrong.

This map...” Gilad said with confusion “it's...wrong.”

Doctor Tabok let out a wry smile “Indeed it is.”

But how is that possible? Has someone tampered with the nav computers?”

The Doctor shook his head “No, I'm afraid not. This is...genuine.”

Admiral Harsk spoke up “Do you see the size of the problem we face, Captain?”

All of a sudden all the nerves in Gilad's body began to ache at once as he tried to wrap his around what had happened. If what the Doctor was saying is true, then they had somehow travelled to a completely new galaxy. After wiping away the cold sweat that had begun to form on his forehead, Gilad asked “can we get back?”

The Doctor shrugged “the truth is we don't know. The anomaly does not seem to present anywhere near our current position.”

Is there any nearby planets?”

With an excited smile on his face, Doctor Tabok reached over to the nav computer's controls and zoomed in to a planetary system near the position of the fleet “we've found a system with a planet that, according to our scans, can support life. We were preparing to send probes before the council called this meeting.”

The council?”

Yes” responded Moff Cirik “the council of key officers and personnel of this fleet. We created it when we discovered that our commander was dead. Now though we have our commander.”

Gilad stared at the planet on the computer's screen as he thought of a way out of the mess they were in. At that moment in time, there was only one course of action he could think of. “Tell all ships to set a course to this habitable planet that Doctor Tabok has found.”

And what will we do when we get there?” asked General Orek.

Land, set up a base of operations, and begin the preparations for permanent settlement.” The three officers shifted in the seats, barely hiding their scepticism. “I know some will not like it, I know that some will see it as admitting defeat, but the truth is that we do not have the supplies to remain a nomadic fleet while we try to find a way back to our galaxy. For all we know we are trapped here forever.”

The usually cynical Moff Cirik nodded “the Captain is right, we must prepare for the worst.”

With a curt nod from Moff Cirik, she stood up and straightened her uniform “I believe it is time for us tend to our subordinates.” The Moff walked out of the bridge and was quickly followed by General Orek and Colonel Delvardus.

Captain,” Admiral Harsk said as she stood up “as the highest-ranking member of the Imperial Navy here, I have the honour of the promoting you to the rank of admiral.”

Gilad found himself dumbstruck “W-what? Admiral?”

Harsk smiled “A commander of a fleet this big can't be a captain, it wouldn't do.” As she walked towards the turbo-lift she turned her head and said “don't worry, Admiral, you will come to hate me for it.”




latest


Admiral Gilad Pellaeon of the ISD Chimera
 
Quite the start. :)
 
It's is beautiful, I've always wanted a star wars AAR.
 
One is reminded of the old toast: to bloody wars and sickly seasons!
 
Very cool intro! :) I love Star Wars and have often wondered how to fit a proper Star Wars feel into Stellaris. Just shifting galaxies is a great idea and i'm jealous I didn't try it first!

(Also yay Pellaeon my favourite Imperial!)

340
 
Awesome Idea! Can't wait to see more.

Yeesh, now there are going to be TWO galactic empires, aren't there?
 
subbed
 
Hi guys, a quick update on this AAR.

As you probably noticed it has been on hiatus for a while, which was mainly because of two things: life getting quite hectic, and the upcoming release of the new expansion. Now that some of the mods that I use have been updated, I will be restarting my playthrough. That should mean that chapters should start being published this week. Thanks for your patience and I hope you look forward to the adventures of Pellaeon and the exiled Empire!
 
Nice, good seeing this back!
 
Chapter 1
Chapter 1


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FIVE YEARS LATER


The sunrise over Bastion greeted Gilad when he arose from his bed for yet another day on the planet he had learnt to call home. The fleet's arrival at Bastion five years prior was followed by weeks of infighting between the high ranking officers of the expedition, it was only when Gilad made the fateful decision to settle on the planet that situation calmed. Even so, the settlement of the planet had been marred by the fact that, so far, none of the research probes had discovered another anomaly. While hopes were high at the start, many within the fleet were now beginning to accept that they were here for the long term. Gilad, who had accepted this early on, had ordered all none-military ships to be disassembled and be used for the construction of habitations and facilities for the new population of Bastion. However, while this worked for the first three years, eventually demand grew to the point that military vessels also had to be used for construction as well. Now there were only three escort ships, a construction ship, and Corellian corvette in orbit. The Chimera was the last remaining Star Destroyer that was intact, and it had been on the ground since it landed five years ago.

What are you doing?” asked Jaina, who was still wrapped in sheets on the bed. “Is it time to get up already?”

Yes,” Gilad replied as he continued to look out the window “and today of all days is when we have to be prompt and on time.”

After a brief sigh, Jaina unwrapped herself from the sheets and got out of the bed to join Gilad. Her hand held his “you worry too much, Gilad. You think too much about how over people see you.”

Wouldn't you if you were in my position?”

Jaina nodded “Yes, but then I would have you to aid me, to give me advice.”

Her words were true, Gilad knew, but they did not help to soothe his nerves. “I've had to lead this 'expedition' for five years, and through all that time we have faced failure after failure. Soon the council will begin to tire of the charade that is my so-called leadership.”

And what do they have to show off their leadership skills?” asked Jaina with a sense of bitterness in her voice “They have hidden away whilst you had to make all the hard decisions.”

I am the leader,” Gilad said “all faults lie with me, and me alone. When we return-”

Jaina laughed “do you believe we will return? You heard the stories about the anomaly, the ships that enter it never come back.”

But why would the Emperor send us into suicide mission? What would be the point?”

When I saw Lord Vader choke an admiral to death for a minor infraction, I learnt to stop asking questions like that a long time ago.”

Lord Vader had always been enigmatic, even officers at the highest level of the Imperial Government knew little of his life before the New Order. A few days after the end of the Clone Wars, Lord Vader burst onto the scene, making quick work of officers who questioned his authority. To some, he was an effective taskmaster, but to Gilad he was a beast, and blunt cudgel meant to terrify lower officers into obedience. But this method of leadership had a detrimental impact on morale, which was easily noticeable when once the Chimera had to transport Vader back to Coruscant. Luckily only one member of the crew was killed when it turned out he was supplying information to a rebel cell, which was discovered when Vader 'felt it'. During his time in command of the expedition, Gilad had tried to use the opposite of Vader's style of leadership.

When Gilad saw that half of the sun was over the horizon, Gilad knew that it was time to get ready for the day's tasks. “It's time to move Jaina.” With a quick roll of the eyes, Jaina let go of Gilad's hand went to get dressed. Once they were both in their uniforms, Jaina and Gilad had a quick kiss before exiting their quarters and entering the Chimera's corridors. Once their Jaina was Lieutenant Dryn and Gilad was Admiral Pellaeon, and all signs of their relationship were hidden away.


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They are here, sir.” The ensign's news was one that Gilad had been dreading for weeks, despite being well prepared for them.

Show them in.” When the ensign left Gilad had one last check of his notes, straightened his uniform, and then waited. The room of the meeting was the Chimera's bridge, which had become the main forum for which all matters pertaining to the expedition were discussed. While once temporary, the large table used for meetings had become a permanent feature, much to Gilad's displeasure.

When the attendees of the meeting entered he began to feel anxious once again for many of his 'subordinates' had once been far higher than him on the chain command, and it was very likely that they did not forget that. While about fifteen officers were attending the meeting, there were only six that mattered. There was Moff Cirik, who had become in charge of the administration of Bastion, General Orek, who was the commander of the Army, Admiral Harsk, who controlled the remnants of the Imperial Navy, Doctor Liam Tabok, who was leading the search for the anomaly, Major Auxi Kray-Korbin, the de-facto head of the Imperial Intelligence, and Colonel Jon Faeran, who controlled the holonet networks of Bastion. All six of them had their spheres of influence, and all six of them often bickered on who controlled what on Bastion. For most of his tenure as commander of the expedition, Gilad had spent countless hours trying to mediate between the different cliques, which something he was growing sicker and sicker of doing.



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When the attendees had sat down, Gilad stood from his chair and began his speech “for five years we have worked to not only survive in this foreign galaxy but to also prosper. While our main aim has been to find a way back home, we have proven that Imperial ingenuity can conquer any obstacle in our path. The living proof of which surrounds us right now. Bastion has become a beacon of our success, and a symbol of things to come.” With a few presses on a terminal next to him, Gilad loaded up a hologram of the galaxy they found themselves in. “In our search for a new anomaly, we have scanned the entire galaxy, and have received zero matches to the energy signatures that occurred on that fateful day. It is highly likely that we are trapped here...potentially forever.”

Many of the officers shuffled in their seats with unease, and some look positively shook. The only one who did not look at all concerned was Moff Cirik, whose face looked as cynical as always. “Wasn't that obvious from the start, Admiral? In the reports of the anomaly from across history none of the ships that went through ever returned.”

Gilad nodded “you are right, and that's why we must plan for the future.”

A young army officer stood up and shouted “future! What future? We are stranded in a hostile galaxy with no hope of seeing our families again.” Displeased with his subordinate's outcry, General Orek pulled him back into his seat.

We can build a future” replied Gilad “here on Bastion. And from here we can spread out across the stars and spread the New Order to this new galaxy.”

How do you suggest we do this?” asked Admiral Harsk.

Walking over to a nearby holo-projector, Gilad revealed detailed plans for all stages of his attempted settlement of the new galaxy. “Over the last year, I and a team of experts have been preparing these documents as an intended guideline during our expansion into our new home. Included inside them are plans ranging from building schematics, potential ways to increase the fertility of our settlers, and terraforming techniques for when we colonise other planets.”

“Very good, Admiral,” Moff Cirik said wearily “but in those plans does at all mention your plans for the government? Because without leadership, all these plans are pointless.”

Gilad breathed in before he answered, knowing full well that his reply would make or break his plans for the expedition. “I and my team have been investigating all possible options when it comes to governing what would be, in effect, a new national body. We decided that continuing the current command structure as it is now would be ineffective and inefficient, and would eventually lead to leadership issues later down the line.”

So, what do you propose?” asked General Orek.

For an instant Gilad did not want to answer, for what he was about to say was tantamount to treason “I propose that a leader be chosen who will govern over our new exiled state, and be given full executive power over the military and foreign affairs.” The room was filled with low-level murmuring was the officers tried to comprehend what they had just heard.

Moff Cirik, whose face was now red with fury, spoke up “Are you suggesting we elect a new emperor? That's-”

Let me make this clear” Gilad interrupted “this leader would not be a replacement for our Emperor. We are still members of the Galactic Empire, it's laws shall be our laws and Emperor will remain our sovereign. This new leader we choose will be a...regent. A custodian of Imperial power until we can reconnect with our home galaxy.” His words seemed to temper the possible outrage from the assembled officers, but there was still some clear reticence from within the crowd.

Your words could be seen as...heresy,” said a bemused Major Kray-Korbin “the Emperor wasn't just a monarch to some in the Empire, he was a god.”

The thought of the former Chancellor of the Republic being seen as a god would have been amusing to Gilad if he hadn't seen the fervour of the devotees first hand. “Rest assured, those who...devote their time to our Emperor will not be stopped.”

A now restless Moff Cirik stood up and straightened her uniform “so, Admiral Pellaeon, how will we choose this new regent?”

By election”. The room erupted into laughter.

By election?” Cirik exclaimed as she tried to stifle her laughter “Do you think we are still a Republic?”

I wouldn't be surprised if he does,” said Major Kray-Korbin, who was red-faced from frantic chuckling.

As he looked around in despair, Gilad noticed that the only ones who weren't laughing were Admiral Harsk and the members of the fleet. When Harsk met Gilad's gaze her eyes widened as if she been shocked by an electro-baton and she suddenly stood up.

You are quite right, Moff Cirik, we do not have elections in the Empire.” The Admiral's words hastened the end of the laughter and soon all eyes were on her. “While I commend Admiral Pellaeon's attempt at including us all in the decision of the future of our new community, it is clear that we will never agree to vote in a candidate that will please us all. It is because of this that I declare that we change nothing and that the regency is handed over to Admiral Pellaeon.

The room was as silent as the grave save for the slight hum of the nav computers. Stunned, Gilad found his mouth agape when he tried to speak, leading to his reaction being nothing more than a garbled murmur.

Couldn't have put it better myself?” said an incredulous Cirik in reaction to Gilad's response “what gives you the right to impose such a rash and sweeping action, Kidles?”

The fleet” answered Admiral Harsk “which is the one thing stopping our fragile settlement hear from collapsing into anarchy.”

The eyes of Moff Cirik narrowed as her face grew red “why you insolent-”

The Moff's words were cut off by the firm hand of General Orek on her shoulder “she has a point, Jaral. We cannot control Bastion, let alone get back home without the fleet...or Pellaeon.”

The incensed Moff shrugged off the General's hand and looked straight into Gilad's eyes “it seems you have your mandate, Admiral.”



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Wow this story could be right out of the old Expanded Universe, this truly reads like a novel!
 
Hail the new Emperor! Sorry regent.
 
Now is the time to bring the Emperor's order and security to this new galaxy. They will kneel before his authority, or they will fall before his might.

Let's hope this goes the way we all want it to. :)
 
Wow this story could be right out of the old Expanded Universe, this truly reads like a novel!

Thank you, that is high praise indeed!

Hail the new Emperor! Sorry regent.

Gonna be honest, Pellaeon would probably do a better job than Palpatine :p

Now is the time to bring the Emperor's order and security to this new galaxy. They will kneel before his authority, or they will fall before his might.

Let's hope this goes the way we all want it to. :)

I hope so too, though I fear there may be some locals who disagree with such a notion.