Please make "The Republic" really moddable

[fanoI]

From the modder point of view "The Republic DLC" is a little delusion: too restriction are imposed that IMHO should not be necessary!

These are some examples:

1. A Republic is playable only if it has a port, you, Paradox, does not wanted to represent inland Republics (as the Italian Communes) make at least this possible for us modders!
2. A Republic with a port is not playable if it has not Patrician Elective succession, but not all Republics was Merchant Republics for example Novgorod had a sort of Tanist succession. Note that you could change succession via event / decision / console and after this the Republic continue to be playable. Clearly an "if" is present in the start screen that could be removed without problems! A note Venice in 1204 is not playable because its ruler is not a Patrician...
3. A Republic is not playable if its capital is not a city, objectively I have not a historical example of this, well probably the ruler of Novgorod, being a Prince, ruled from a castle not a city!
4. The headgear are hard coded you cannot change them via culture and neither via the portraits.txt, these portraits make sense only for the Italian Republics, maybe Hansa but what about the Roman Republic or a not historical Muslim Republic? Please make moddable by culture as the normal Crowns.
5. Female cannot hold Republics (Galle for Crisis of the Confederation has used a clever trick to fix this but it is always a trick!)
6. County Level Republics are not playable, this force to do Kludge to make playable Amalfi to which is given a fictionary titular Duchy when they held only a city, other city state Republics existed in history and technically they should be all County level Republics
7. Patrician Palaces could be used to represent Noble Palaces this is apparently moddable but it seems the game crash
8. Trade Posts are usable only by Patrician Republics, they could be useful for other type of character in particular for Holy Orders to simulate the Priories.
9. The ability to have more than 5 families in this case is practically already working but "The Republic" interface does not adapt accordingly (resizing itself or add horizontal scroll bars)

Do you have intentions to do a second DLC dedicated to Republics or not?
I don't think so why do not open at least some of these things to modders?
I imagine some of this points cannot be opened because they hide some bug (being not tested code) but some of them seems really easy.

What do you think developers is possible? Or we have to wait CK3 to have this?

 

[starwarsfan541]

I completely 100% agree with this +1

 

[unmerged(242259)]

Yeah, really. It's incredibly silly to see a roman republic with those funny hats :S

 

[Thure]

Just make a DLC about inland republic with other mechanics than Merchant Republics would be enough for me.

Female republics are a bit trickier. Especially because of the marriage system. They can't enable matrial marriages for republics because with this the player could reduce his family arbitrary.

 

[JGBeagle]

Female republics are a bit trickier. Especially because of the marriage system. They can't enable matrial marriages for republics because with this the player could reduce his family arbitrary.

Yeah, it's done that way because figuring out succession between two Patrician families would become impossible with matrilinial marriages enabled.

 

[Thure]

Yeah, it's done that way because figuring out succession between two Patrician families would become impossible with matrilinial marriages enabled.

The only possibility would be female republics were you are forced to use matrilinear marriages and normal marriages are disallowed.

 

[fanoI]

Just make a DLC about inland republic with other mechanics than Merchant Republics would be enough for me.

Yes this was the hope but how much time is passed from when "The Republic" is exited? 2 years? IMHO they maybe had the intention but now I fear too much time is passed!

Female republics are a bit trickier. Especially because of the marriage system. They can't enable matrial marriages for republics because with this the player could reduce his family arbitrary.

Force them to only Enatic succession then and matrilinear marriages could solve the problem in any if a modder wants to enable it why not? Now it could try but the results are not the one expected!

Regarding those hats but are they really historical? Do you know that, for example the Doge of Venice had a sort of Crown?
It was called "corno ducale":



now the ruler of the Republic has the same hat of the other patricians.
Other Republic had crowns too for example here the Crown of the Republic of San Marino:

But there are others look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_(heraldry)#Other_Italian_states_before_1861

... so in the end those hats does not make sense not only for the Roman Republic and the Muslim Republics but on the Italian ones that should be the ones it tries to represent !
FAIL!

 

[LordPeter]

The only possibility would be female republics were you are forced to use matrilinear marriages and normal marriages are disallowed.

This.

... and +1 to everything in OP.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

There are a lot of limitations in the way that Republics are set up. Unfortunately, a lot of it is coded in really awkward hard coded ways sort of hacked together to make it work. At least, that's the impression I got last time they talked about it. It would take a lot of time and effort to decouple a lot of these things and make them modable....

 

[mjohnson85]

There are a lot of limitations in the way that Republics are set up. Unfortunately, a lot of it is coded in really awkward hard coded ways sort of hacked together to make it work. At least, that's the impression I got last time they talked about it. It would take a lot of time and effort to decouple a lot of these things and make them modable....

Exactly this. It has been stated several times by various devs that it would be too much work to justify spending the amount of time on it. It truly is time-cost prohibitive.

 

[mjohnson85]

The problem is, with the way the devs talk about it, you would have to basically skip a DLC release to get it done because it is so much work. Would you give up a DLC? Would PDS want to lose out on DLC money? It is just a simple issue of cost, both time and money. Doesn't matter how much us modders want it, from a business standpoint it isn't feasible. I too wish it was it wasn't hard-coded, but alas, it wasn't meant to be.

 

[LordPeter]

The problem is, with the way the devs talk about it, you would have to basically skip a DLC release to get it done because it is so much work. Would you give up a DLC? Would PDS want to lose out on DLC money? It is just a simple issue of cost, both time and money. Doesn't matter how much us modders want it, from a business standpoint it isn't feasible. I too wish it was it wasn't hard-coded, but alas, it wasn't meant to be.

Hopefully they can at least learn from it, and not make future DLCs needlessly hardcoded again. Because then I would really get upset.

 

[alfian]

Agreed.

 

[Sifyu]

Finally people notice this. I agree 100% that republics need a lot more work and updates. I feel that they should perhaps change up the election system a bit. Make it a bit more in depth (I understand that it might be difficult due to engine limitations) and perhaps introduce Inland republics as well. I was actually hoping more of a system reminiscent of EU rome's republic system. I also feel there should be more layered systems such as terms that each leader is obligated to follow rather then an instant 'Term for life' system which is applied for everyone. I mean if people want 'term for life' then sure add a system of laws for that but by default there should be yearly terms (or however many years each term lasts for). Kind of like the system in 'Crisis for Confederation' though that is obviously still very rudimentary. I would love a system like that incorporated in Ck2 vanilla either via a mod or a DLC.

Another interesting mod that incorporates a cool republic system is in the 'Game of Thrones' mod which adds a very unique republic term based system for 'Volantis' located in Essos. It reminds me a lot of how the Old roman republic system worked (albeit it is a more simplified model but still works). Basically it works with 3 people in charge. A senior Triach (The consul) and his 2 junior Traichs (The Junior adjudicators or co Consuls). Each term (which is yearly) people convene to elect these people into power. There is even a party system (two parties Tiger and Elephant) which sides with one over the other.

'Crisis of the confederation' system of elections and republics confuse me but seems to have a lot of depth to it and could perhaps also be incorporated (The mod maker even said he would re work the system 'one day' to perhaps implement into Vanilla as a standalone mod).

SO yeah.

 

[fanoI]

If it is too costly to do in a free patch they could it in a "Inland Republic DLC", for sure it could not be leaved in this state.
Some of the points above I don't think could give great problems if opened (The succession law could be changed via event so why the start button is grey? Why the Headgear should be hardcoded?)

 

[mjohnson85]

I don't think you are quite understanding what was said. It is too costly to do in ANY single patch or DLC (as far as time and effort is concerned).

To add to this, I would like to bring up some of the comments Groogy (IIRC) said in the general forum in relation to playable theocracies which would also apply to this issue. When they designed republics they did not do it with playable inland republics in mind (along with other issues raised in this thread). So even if they were to untangle the massive mess that is the republic hard-code (which would take far too much time) they would still have countless and unknown bugs to fix that would never had mattered, or been noticed, otherwise.

If you have photo editing experience, and I know this is just a compromise, you can change the republic clothes pack to align the hats (or add new ones).

 

[fanoI]

I don't think you are quite understanding what was said. It is too costly to do in ANY single patch or DLC (as far as time and effort is concerned).

To add to this, I would like to bring up some of the comments Groogy (IIRC) said in the general forum in relation to playable theocracies which would also apply to this issue. When they designed republics they did not do it with playable inland republics in mind (along with other issues raised in this thread). So even if they were to untangle the massive mess that is the republic hard-code (which would take far too much time) they would still have countless and unknown bugs to fix that would never had mattered, or been noticed, otherwise.

Well if neither a paid DLC could be used to solve "The Republic" problems the thing is really a mess!
I hope the reality is better that this...

If you have photo editing experience, and I know this is just a compromise, you can change the republic clothes pack to align the hats (or add new ones).

No sadly is not so easy! The Republican (or better Patricians) Portraits are hardcoded too you could change them yes but if for example I was able to create "A Corno Ducale" crown I get that on the holder of Venice, but on any lower Patrician too! It is not moddable neither for culture, title or religion: are all the same!

 

[mjohnson85]

Indeed, the only thing that you change is for all the republics (that's why its a compromise and not a fix). I do feel like this aspect is more of a plain bug but who knows. It might also be some oddly hard-coded thing.

On the plus side it does seem like the devs learned from their mistakes as no expansion since the republic has been so massively hard-coded.

 

[JGBeagle]

Hopefully the coding problem will be resolved when they make CKIII. Until then, we just have to suffer through the mess that is merchant republics.

 

[fanoI]

I don't think it was their intention to hard code so much "The Republic" but they did so because they were in hurry, simply they do not fixed the mess later because they need to release a new DLC, simple as that.

I'd like to have Captain Gars opinion on this by the way; no one of the requested points could be opened to modding without obtaining a crashing game? At least having moddable Patrician Portraits for culture? Or untangle the fact that the ruler of the Republic is yes a Patrician but being the Doge could wear some type of special "crown" (in some cultures as the Muslim one the same of feudal rulers that is turbans)?
I'm unsure but probably a ruler of a Republic cannot wore a martial helm when he is a commander too!