An Alternate World War II - "Realtime" - UK

[Anuerin]

I would disagree with the plausability of using Trotsky. It must be remembered that he wasn't purged only by Stalin, almost everyone else of any importance in the USSR hated him. While he was a superb general and a decent theorist, as a politician he was sub par at best. The question also remains as to whther he would accept being made a puppet of the capitalis west, even if it was against Stalin.

 

[Manuel Komnenos]

Using Trotsky is a terrible idea. He was a firm believer in spreading Bolshevism across the globe and if let back into power he will betray us

 

[DoomBunny]

Moreover, how are we meant to infiltrate him? The Germans put Lenin back into Russia at a time of weakness, the government was fragile and lacked the means Stalin now possesses. I doubt he'd make it a day or two before someone passed him on to the NKVD.

 

[Manuel Komnenos]

Moreover, how are we meant to infiltrate him? The Germans put Lenin back into Russia at a time of weakness, the government was fragile and lacked the means Stalin now possesses. I doubt he'd make it a day or two before someone passed him on to the NKVD.

It also would call into question what the point even is of fighting the reds. Are we just fighting a dictator to install another one?

 

[John Forseti]

Using Trotsky is a terrible idea. He was a firm believer in spreading Bolshevism across the globe and if let back into power he will betray us

Im not expecting to turn the USSR into an ally, my hope is to put a thorn in Stalin's side that distract him from the war with us and disrupt his further cooperation with the fascists and nazis.

Moreover, how are we meant to infiltrate him? The Germans put Lenin back into Russia at a time of weakness, the government was fragile and lacked the means Stalin now possesses. I doubt he'd make it a day or two before someone passed him on to the NKVD.

Yes, as I said, I doubt Trotsky would be successful, but most special operations have a high risk of failure and this one has failure states that are still useful. The question is, would the resources this plan cost be detrimental to the overall war effort if it doesn't succeed?

It also would call into question what the point even is of fighting the reds. Are we just fighting a dictator to install another one?

As far as I can tell, we are fighting the USSR to soothe our leaders' wounded imperial pride at the audacity of the Red Navy to sail through the English Channel, it was never about toppling Stalin. And such notions of doing so should be put to bed immediately. It might have been possible had we allied with the devil and invaded side by side with the Germans, but we are at war with them too and IF we managed put down the mad corproral Hitler and his little fascist friends, we will have paid such a cost that I am not even sure we will have enough left to defend the continent from a fresh and readied Red Army. Now, if the Red Army is battered and bloody from a civil war, or it's command structures have once again been ruthlessly purged by a paranoid Stalin who sees enemies whenever he opens his eyes, maybe we would have a better chance of grinding them to halt before they reach the Atlantic.

 

[DoomBunny]

It also would call into question what the point even is of fighting the reds. Are we just fighting a dictator to install another one?

A dictator even more focused on world revolution, no less?

 

[Anuerin]

It also would call into question what the point even is of fighting the reds. Are we just fighting a dictator to install another one?

Exactly! Common cause must be made with the USSR the shining example of True, Workers Democracy in this world, to defeat the reactionary scum of Central Europe.

 

[DoomBunny]

*Sips some whisky*
"Socialists..."
*Returns to whisky*

Spoiler

 

[Manuel Komnenos]

Im not expecting to turn the USSR into an ally, my hope is to put a thorn in Stalin's side that distract him from the war with us and disrupt his further cooperation with the fascists and nazis.



Yes, as I said, I doubt Trotsky would be successful, but most special operations have a high risk of failure and this one has failure states that are still useful. The question is, would the resources this plan cost be detrimental to the overall war effort if it doesn't succeed?



As far as I can tell, we are fighting the USSR to soothe our leaders' wounded imperial pride at the audacity of the Red Navy to sail through the English Channel, it was never about toppling Stalin. And such notions of doing so should be put to bed immediately. It might have been possible had we allied with the devil and invaded side by side with the Germans, but we are at war with them too and IF we managed put down the mad corproral Hitler and his little fascist friends, we will have paid such a cost that I am not even sure we will have enough left to defend the continent from a fresh and readied Red Army. Now, if the Red Army is battered and bloody from a civil war, or it's command structures have once again been ruthlessly purged by a paranoid Stalin who sees enemies whenever he opens his eyes, maybe we would have a better chance of grinding them to halt before they reach the Atlantic.

Hey, if the krauts could topple a Russian government the first time around, who's to say we can't do it better this time?

Exactly! Common cause must be made with the USSR the shining example of True, Workers Democracy in this world, to defeat the reactionary scum of Central Europe.

Reactionary? I'll tell you what is reactionary, to want to revert back to a primitive communal society where any white collar work is considered evil. No thanks, Mr. Stalin. I'd rather have running water and electricity than stale bread and knowing that everyone else in the world is as poor as me.

 

[HIMDogson]

Exactly! Common cause must be made with the USSR the shining example of True, Workers Democracy in this world, to defeat the reactionary scum of Central Europe.

Uh huh. Ask the Finns and the Poles how that worker's democracy is working out for them.

 

[MacGowan]

For new readers:
- Norway still stands
- France still stands
- Soviet union is at war with the Allies
- Italy has surrendered
- Germany is invading Sweden​

9 - 16 October '40 - The battle of Malmö

"To those who can hear me, I say — do not despair. The misery that is now upon us is but the passing of greed — the bitterness of men who fear the way of human progress. The hate of men will pass, and dictators die, and the power they took from the people will return to the people."

- Charlie Chaplin, in the Mad Dictator, October, 1940 -

(London)
​

Poor Neville. I wonder what the last thoughts on the war was before he passed away. May God have mercy on his soul. The walls are slowly crumbling, chap. On both sides of the war. Hitler and his men must be fearing for their lives, and we? We are fearing for the state of the empire. Another week of meaningless trench war. Another week of pushing back the barbaric Huns. The French have had enough of it, and I'm surprised the British workers haven't rallied together and gotten out their torches and pitch forks. Perhaps they soon will. But I'm rambling on, old boy. Have a seat, today we take back Sweden.

RAF BATTLE OVER GOTHENBURG:

​

With Dowding's boys now stationed in Oslo, we have enjoyed delivering air support to our troops on the ground in Sweden. This week was no different as Luftwaffe tried to attack, but were firmly rejected by the superior fighting force of the RAF. 67 German bombers shot down. And with that the Luftwaffe offensive has been blunted. It's now imperative that we launch our own.

RAF BOMBER GROUP REBASED IN OSLO:

​

October 13th, Air Marshal Coningham was ordered to deploy his bombing group to Oslo, in order to give the Germans a proper licking. Unfortunately, with the hastening of that order a more dangerous route was chosen. It backfired and the bombing group was intercepted off the coast of Denmark. 26 of our bombers were lost. A crummy loss due to incompetent on our behalf. Coningham and his boys are, however, currently in Oslo, and we presume it will take them no more than 2 weeks for them to get prepared for bombing runs on Malmo, Copenhagen, and Jonkoping. Which brings us to the next point of business

THE BATTLE OF MALMÖ:

​

Due to German reinforcement last week there was a clear point where we seemed to be loosing the Battle of Malmo. Even General Auchinleck himself had to retreat his division after suffering defeat. Thankfully, at the 11th hour, the Swedish soldiers showed up, led by General Thornell, the Swedish supreme commander. With great tenacity they took over the battle relieving our tired boys. They were then able to do some much needed re-organising, and then come back into the fight. The Germans were eventually overmatched by a united front of Swedes, Norwegians, Canadians, and Brits. Finally the world is coming together to expel this fascist threat!

STORM DELAYING MOVEMENT:

​

As winter is approaching, the climate in Swedish is turning quit harsh. The latter part of the battle of Malmo was fought in a pesky storm. One that is currently ongoing. We are slowly making our way into securing Malmo, with the Germans retreating back into Copenhagen. But all of this is taking some time, and Carton de Wiart is concerned of possible counter-attacks. The Swedes took a fair bit of losses in the battles, and they will not be able to gather reinforcements as fast as we are. Hopefully all will be well, and we can initiate Hammerfall.

OPERATION HAMMERFALL:

​

Auchinleck's proposed pinching operation has been approved. The German forces in Jonkoping will not be engaged as we attempt to reach Malmo first, where the majority of the army will be stationed as we wait for the German counter-attack from Copenhagen. As soon as we reach Malmo however, the annihilation of the 2 German divisions at Jonkoping will commence. Avenging the 21e corps d'armée we lost at Pola. with 1 Norwegian division attacking from the West, 1 Canadian division coming down from the North, 1 Swedish infantry division attacking from Linkoping, and Auchinlek attacking from the East. As soon as Operation Hammerfall is accomplished, they will all move South to reinforce Malmo.

THE WESTERN FRONT:

Allies wounded/captured/killed: 93 000
Axis wounded/captured/killed: 88 000​

The western front barely ever moves. A few towns taken here and there, then we take them back the next week. If you could even call them towns anymore at this point. Hollow, craters. Smoke, and dust. Still they come. Exhausted. Having seen so many of their brothers die. Still they attack the Gort line in massive numbers. The losses we suffered this week was unbearable. The French have had enough, and the smaller nations like Norway are requesting to leave France to go and fight back in Sweden. Churchill is biting his tongue though. During the meeting with the war cabinet it was again discussed and settled: The winter. We hold France until the ground freezes, and everything turns white. Then the assassination of Hitler must commence. A coup. An acceptable peace agreement.

FRENCH GOVERNMENT UNSTABLE:

When France first entered this war, sentiments were at an all time low. The French have gone through numerous governments and quelled its share of riots over the last 20 years. Their soldiers have fought with valour and glory, but the French people are tired of war. This week they again took to the streets in a peaceful, but threatening protest march demanding that the current government led by Édouard Daladier step down. That more decisive leaders step up, and an end to the war be found. It seems that France is reaching her breaking point this time. Daladier is out in tough weather, and most likely he will have to give the people what they want. Which is rather bad news for us, considering the fact that we're in a bloody war right now. New leaders mean new ideas, new generals, new plans. We cannot afford to loose all that we've worked for. But if the French government does not step down, I fear revolution looms over her nation.

ANCONA SECURED:

​

The beaches at Ancona in Italy were finally secured and are now guarded by a small group from North Africa. The Germans now have no other option but to attack the Ironside line head on if they are to have any success on the Italian front. Our men there are enjoying the weeks of rest and I have little doubt in my mind that when night creeps on they thank God they're not on the Western front. The situation in Italy seems less than optimal, but stabile. Food is again flowing through the nation. Rebuilding has commenced in the areas far away from the front, and the political situation, though tense, seems controllable, at least while the French government still stands.

NEVILLE CHAMBERLAIN PASSES AWAY:

On the 14th October, after a a month of battling illness, the former prime minister Neville Chamberlain passed away. He was surrounded by his family and friends, and the doctor said it was with dignity. His legacy is one that will be discussed by historians for ages, and I fear it may not be in a positive light. But the chap was a good chap. I believe he did the best he could with what he had. Perhaps it was a mistake to appease Germany. Of course it was a mistake. But it's hard to see what better path to take.
He was my friend, and now he is dead. The clocks will chime this sunday for old Chamberlain. The first prime minister of the second great war.

May he rest in peace.​

​

 

[Aquadragon10]

Crush them beneath our treads!

 

[J_Master]

An hour early this week, must be the reverting back to standard time. Still has to happen here in the Netherlands. Coming weeks will win us the war chap. Victory in Sweden shall come. Pin down the Germans in Jonnkoping with 1 div attacking. The destruction of those divs will provide great propaganda to the French populus. The war with germany must end this winter. SIS will have to win this war for us

 

[Kurt_Steiner]

Well, we have to wait for Sweden, to see if victory there may change the turn the tide...

It's going to be funny if France falls from within...

 

[Faeelin]

Excellent, as always. I must say, I hope the British are looking France a bit pessimistically. They're no worse off than the Germans, after all...

 

[Vlad_Dracul1989]

British should carefully seek a potential for a military coup in France, if country already crumbles. Just contact De Gaulle. He and few more hardcore nationalist hawks in French military, conveniently in control of motorized and tank divisions (very convenient for a coup).

Give them just few suggestions, perhaps unnecessary ones.

I say even French Civil War, high dissent and uprisings everywhere would be better option than quick decay and surrender of an entire French army, which would a catastrophic for the British Expeditionary Force in France and elsewhere.
This would at least allow your forces to evacuate the continent properly, slowly, without extreme haste and with all the equipment.

 

[SPIRTO76]

British should carefully seek a potential for a military coup in France, if country already crumbles. Just contact De Gaulle.

I highly doubt he would be the one to orchestrate a coup. He does not have the seniority to attract other generals to his cause nor the fame to quell unrest. The only man I could feasibly see doing that would be Petain.

 

[Blackoberst]

I highly doubt he would be the one to orchestrate a coup. He does not have the seniority to attract other generals to his cause nor the fame to quell unrest. The only man I could feasibly see doing that would be Petain.

Oh, the irony!

 

[MacGowan]

MID WEEK Q&A​

Looking at the map, I feel puzzled by the low amount of enemy troops at Luxembourg. It looks so tempting that it must be a trap.

There's a pitiful amount of troops guarding Brussels as well, with the sufficient application of force you might be able to take advantage of that.

It does and Germany has been placing its forces rather odd lately to ensure maximum punch in Sedan.
I'm looking for some help! Anyone who knows supply efficiency well, have a look at this thread for next week's post. It contains SPOILERS! So if you don't want to know, then don't click, however I'm rather confused over this and the replies aren't helping. Also remember NOT to post your answers on this thread as that would spoil it for our readers.

the African units were formed into regular infantry divisions. In fact they came to be regarded rather well in their service against the Japanese in Burma.

I'd suggest that upgrading the existing African militias into normal divisions would be entirely appropriate.

I usually upgrade every goddamit Militia stack to regular infantry. I actually did not understand the advantages of Militia - apart cheap and so you can roll more men.

Upgrading every militia strikes me as a bit gamey. Also there has been little combat in Africa, and the militias are doing their job just fine, guarding beaches and preventing riots in the Middle-East. However I will look into it and see if there's any British militia forces I feel we could upgrade.

I wonder how he is defending the border of Norway and Soviets... they defeated Finland so they gained a direct border

Petsamo was ceded after the Continuation War. At the moment it should still be Finnish.

And it seems the Russians aren't too busy opening that front up to a united Allied army either. However never say, never, I fear the Continuation war will happen sooner, rater than later.

this needs some music in such heated parts.

Yay! I'm a bit more cheesy.

We'll meet again
Don't know where
Don't know when
But I know we'll meet again
Some sunny day ​

Thinking of the Soviet Union, has Trotsky been assassinated yet? Perhaps some sort of operation to send him back into the USSR could destabilse them enough to force them out of the war, like Lenin during the first world war.

Using Trotsky is a terrible idea. He was a firm believer in spreading Bolshevism across the globe and if let back into power he will betray us

Moreover, how are we meant to infiltrate him? The Germans put Lenin back into Russia at a time of weakness, the government was fragile and lacked the means Stalin now possesses. I doubt he'd make it a day or two before someone passed him on to the NKVD.

The question of Russia is a big one. We could bring in the White Russians, or a Sidney Reilly-like fellow. But I fear we are 20 years too late for that. Trotsky might not be tactical enough to take out the high ranking fellows he needs to. Khrushchev perhaps? What is clear is that Stalin will have to be killed.

It also would call into question what the point even is of fighting the reds. Are we just fighting a dictator to install another one?

A dictator even more focused on world revolution, no less?

What's the point of fighting the Nazis? Right?

As far as I can tell, we are fighting the USSR to soothe our leaders' wounded imperial pride at the audacity of the Red Navy to sail through the English Channel, it was never about toppling Stalin. And such notions of doing so should be put to bed immediately. It might have been possible had we allied with the devil and invaded side by side with the Germans, but we are at war with them too and IF we managed put down the mad corproral Hitler and his little fascist friends, we will have paid such a cost that I am not even sure we will have enough left to defend the continent from a fresh and readied Red Army. Now, if the Red Army is battered and bloody from a civil war, or it's command structures have once again been ruthlessly purged by a paranoid Stalin who sees enemies whenever he opens his eyes, maybe we would have a better chance of grinding them to halt before they reach the Atlantic.

It's interesting to see how many on this AAR who are vocal and vehemently opposed to the war against the Soviets. (which I kinda like, since it keeps writing this world so much more fun. Imagine if the whole AAR was just us stomping down the fumbling WWI like Germans) But often I find the logic you guys use a bit weird. So let's go down this rabbit hole. Remember now. TTL, not OTL. A lot has changed in this universe since 1939, so if you want to debate, using examples from 1944 OTL is a little bit pointless.

• We (very important to point out) declared war against Nazi Germany (1939) because they have been seizing neighbouring territories by force, or by the threat of force. They have showed utter contempt to us in the form of diplomacy. They treat their people (and their subjugated people) like slaves. Their ideology is in stark contrast to ours, and leaves little room for compromise between the two of us. They invaded Poland, they invaded Norway, as so many other places. They have plotted together with Russia to work our ruin. There can be no peace with Nazi Germany.
• We declared war against Soviet Russia (1940) because they have been seizing neighbouring territories by force, or by the threat of force. They have showed utter contempt to us in the form of diplomacy, and continued to violate our borders. They treat their people (and their subjugated people) like slaves. Their ideology is in stark contrast to ours, and leaves little room for compromise between the two of us. They invaded Poland, they invaded Finland, as so many other places. They have plotted together with Germany to work our ruin. There can be no peace with Soviet Russia.

I have a hard time seeing how us going to war with Germany is good, but Russia is bad? If the argument is that we can't win against Russia, I believe we can. The Germans took her down in 1917. We have been at war with the Russians for 8 months, and they've probably killed a maximum of 5 000 brits. That's nothing. We share no common border with the Soviets. We control the seas. The Red Wolves threat is nearly non-existing now. A lot can happen. Germany can declare war on her, America can join the Allies, Japan can decide to continue north-west, rather than south-east.

*Sips some whisky*
"Socialists..."
*Returns to whisky*

An hour early this week, must be the reverting back to standard time.

Trying to post earlier on sunday. But it's hard. I spend a few days fixing the pictures, and then 2 days writing it. Often I finish it up on Sundays, so sorry for posting so late in Europe :/

Coming weeks will win us the war chap. Victory in Sweden shall come. Pin down the Germans in Jonnkoping with 1 div attacking. The destruction of those divs will provide great propaganda to the French populus. The war with germany must end this winter. SIS will have to win this war for us

I think we'll have to start looking into the assasination of Hitler. and yes Sweden must be won.

It's going to be funny if France falls from within...

I don't think we're there yet. It's not the Russian revolution yet. And the French know if they take down their own government it does not mean the war will simply stop.

Excellent, as always. I must say, I hope the British are looking France a bit pessimistically. They're no worse off than the Germans, after all...

Thank you, good sir! We are, the French are our strongest ally though, and after she took down Italy she has shown true grit. But the western front has grown oh, so terrible...

British should carefully seek a potential for a military coup in France, if country already crumbles. Just contact De Gaulle. He and few more hardcore nationalist hawks in French military, conveniently in control of motorized and tank divisions (very convenient for a coup).

I highly doubt he would be the one to orchestrate a coup. He does not have the seniority to attract other generals to his cause nor the fame to quell unrest. The only man I could feasibly see doing that would be Petain.

Oh, the irony!

Haha! indeed! De Gaulle is now a bit famous from the last months on the Western front. But not that famous. Perhaps Petain could find himself in a top position within the government. Also remember, the country is not yet crumbling.

I say even French Civil War, high dissent and uprisings everywhere would be better option than quick decay and surrender of an entire French army, which would a catastrophic for the British Expeditionary Force in France and elsewhere.
This would at least allow your forces to evacuate the continent properly, slowly, without extreme haste and with all the equipment.

At the looks of it there might just be a new government, one more adamant to seeing an end to this war of attrition on the western front. The French know they cannot overthrow everything, and the current government and army has shown it could take out Italy. So we're not at the precipice yet.


Also, we're almost at 100 000 views! wow! I never thought so many would bother to check out this little parallel universe. I love it, and it keeps me writing new chapters every week!

 

[John Forseti]

It's interesting to see how many on this AAR who are vocal and vehemently opposed to the war against the Soviets. (which I kinda like, since it keeps writing this world so much more fun. Imagine if the whole AAR was just us stomping down the fumbling WWI like Germans) But often I find the logic you guys use a bit weird.

I mostly just do it to have a little RP fun and break up the upper-class whiskey-clinking

I think the others are the same. I hope so anyway.

I have a hard time seeing how us going to war with Germany is good, but Russia is bad? If the argument is that we can't win against Russia, I believe we can. The Germans took her down in 1917. We have been at war with the Russians for 8 months, and they've probably killed a maximum of 5 000 brits. That's nothing. We share no common border with the Soviets. We control the seas. The Red Wolves threat is nearly non-existing now. A lot can happen. Germany can declare war on her, America can join the Allies, Japan can decide to continue north-west, rather than south-east.

Oh I have no doubt it's very possible to defeat the Soviets in-game, probably even trivial for a skilled player. Narratively though it should be a gargantuan task and I'm playing it up to hype the stakes given the strain the war with Germany has put on the allies so far and how little the Soviets have had to endure in comparison. We dont share a border with the Soviets now, no, but when Germany falls there's nothing seperating us then. Controlling the seas is good, since losing control of it is the end for an island nation like us. The USSR is no island however, and the Royal Navy will not be much use in a land war. And there's a famous saying I think about land wars and Russia. Which is before we consider the largest and most advanced airforce in the world, which you say the USSR now possesses.

I suppose Hitler could try and pull off Barbarosa now, but it would be too mad even for him surely, when his western flank is still not secured. Probably a good explanation for launching an internal military coup though if he ordered the invasion of the USSR while the western front is still being fought? Japan I don't really know enough about, though but I don't think it's realistic for the US to join without them being attacked first given the isolationism at the time, though I suppose you would probably know more about that being American yourself.