Im seeing the USSR crumbling very quickly on the war against Germany since Finland became a reliable partner in Historical playthrough after AAT. Is anyone else noticing that?
Is Soviet AI unable to handle Finland?
- Thread starter Ringwraith_JP
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The Soviets are hopelessly incompetent at doing anything right now. It's like a joke. They're not even a fifth of what they were historically.
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I think part of the problem is that it's hard to simulate being hopelessly incompetent at the start and pulling their shit together in a year or so to begin the counterpush.
The AI isn't exactly good at doing a fighting retreat and if they lose too many units or equipment they will just get a snowballing collapse rather than stabilising and turning the tables.
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- Its cut off Soviets too fast from lendlease / trade routes, because preferable soviets ports in the game is Leningrad, Murmansk and Arkhangelsky.
- Soviets is VERY undermanned in June 1941, in my last German run, they barely have 3 divisions per province... i don't overrun them because i adopted a more slow approach, otherwise would be really a easy stompfest.
- I noticed Poland undermanned too, for the first time in years playing Hoi4 i have see Poland lacking divisions to cover entire front, leaving free holes.
- i wonder if something weird is happening related to market.
- middle part of Karelia border with finland is a supply vacuum on Soviet side, the result is Soviets being early cut from Murmansk port.
- One possible solution would be devs create some 3rd party ports use. historically theres the lend lease delivered for Soviets in Iran... Also landlocked countries that wanst really isolated would benefit. Switzerland can't trade with UK because theres no ports.... Bolivia have deals with Brazil and Argentina to use their ports.... I'm aware it will be challegeful to devs implement this.
- in hoi2 finland AI was extremy defensive with few pushes, german divisions pushed for them.
- Soviets is VERY undermanned in June 1941, in my last German run, they barely have 3 divisions per province... i don't overrun them because i adopted a more slow approach, otherwise would be really a easy stompfest.
- I noticed Poland undermanned too, for the first time in years playing Hoi4 i have see Poland lacking divisions to cover entire front, leaving free holes.
- i wonder if something weird is happening related to market.
- middle part of Karelia border with finland is a supply vacuum on Soviet side, the result is Soviets being early cut from Murmansk port.
- One possible solution would be devs create some 3rd party ports use. historically theres the lend lease delivered for Soviets in Iran... Also landlocked countries that wanst really isolated would benefit. Switzerland can't trade with UK because theres no ports.... Bolivia have deals with Brazil and Argentina to use their ports.... I'm aware it will be challegeful to devs implement this.
- in hoi2 finland AI was extremy defensive with few pushes, german divisions pushed for them.
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Poland lacks market access until they're done with Danzig and can change economy law.
Soviets afaik can only buy from other communist nations so they might also have bigger shortages pre-war. Idk if the Allies send them lendlease at all after the AAT rework.
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"The Pacific route was 47.1 % of all lend-lease deliveries"... Why isn't the Pacific route used for half of leand-lease deliveries in the game?
The thing is, the Soviets did something during WWII that the AI can not do, throw out under-equipped and barely trained divisions in the field to grind the Germans to a halt and let them attrition to a slow death (while of course taking extremely heavy casualties.
For this to work in Hoi4 there would have to be the following settings implemented (like hard-coded to the Soviets on historical as soon as the war starts and surrender limit is >5%):
(1.) ASAP go to Service by Requirement
1. Focus Equipment on units in training
2. Force deploy them at 20% training
3. Do this until a certain number of divisions (500?) is reached
This way the AI should be able to pump out divisions to slow down the Germans.
For this to work in Hoi4 there would have to be the following settings implemented (like hard-coded to the Soviets on historical as soon as the war starts and surrender limit is >5%):
(1.) ASAP go to Service by Requirement
1. Focus Equipment on units in training
2. Force deploy them at 20% training
3. Do this until a certain number of divisions (500?) is reached
This way the AI should be able to pump out divisions to slow down the Germans.
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Exactly. The AI was a bit better at handling the situation when the "second" front in Finland wasn't a thing in Historical play. Sometimes the Germans stomped the Soviets, sometimes they stalled for decades, sometimes the Soviets would recover quicker than expected. Now the Soviets gets steamrolled 100% of the time.
Some tweaks will be necessary to bring the Soviet AI up to the task
Because I can make the Pacific route be 100% of deliveries? But the AI isn't thinking about that.
Thats what i have watch with Japan, China, Mengkukuo and Shanxi AI too. There are frontsection empty. Expanation: the ai has more units in garrison as in front modus, the ai set frontline at peacefull neighbour not at enemy, the ai extended not the frontlines tehy use garrison and this need time, the ai walk not in or leave fast where are supply problems, the ai sell weapon they the not need in this month but next month after deploy units.
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Depends. Finland is little weird sometimes. Winter war ending is scripted and will always end up historically even so soviets are already controlling most of the Finland.
Even in Continuation war soviets start doing naval invasions to Finland and Germany if Germany won't block it. Because Finland won't actually join axis and there is just military access, actual preplanning fronts in Finland is not possible before war. Finland AI not much better here anyway. They leave huge caps in the fronts and feels like their army is not much better than during winter war.
And then soviets are having border with Finland as any other border. Makes sense but it would require specific northren army to defend there and eventually use other forces to attack. It is supply challange that even some players won't bother to handle.
This is very true. Defending currently feels working as attacking with putting units on single front without ability to move unpinned divisions. One bunker division should not be able to pin every division on the region. I would not mind some flexibility on defense lines so making encircles and suchs would not be simple driving empty tiles and snaking it. Even if there was rather undefended territories, those empty lands would not stay under enemy control just because their tanks drove over it week ago and left it empty. To me that sounds way to lose your tanks without some kind mobile forces to secure that path. Getting encircles against defender is about building pockets, planning operations to close them and then you fight them. Real breakthroughs should happen but not because your guys stood single line without possibility to move. Usually defending side keeps moving to diffent defensive line that is already set up by other forces. This is why counter attacks can be dangerous and devastating that even attacker have to be careful not suddenly be in situation that possibly even small effective counter attack force start pushing your rear while there is no good protection set up.
Players have easier time defending since often stacking stats is enough to make AI grind their attacks to nothing. Otherwise setting up fallback lines can work for players and then micro your forces there but otherwise there is no system to have layered defense. I think AI could also benefit if there was little more how defense works as it would not get so hopelessly surrendered by tactics that should very much be taken in considiration by defending generals.
Good find, makes a lot of sense.
I save files a month (from the game), but I didn't have the time or energy (I'm very lazy
) to examine them. thanks for checking.I noticed also indiscriminate garrison, even on borders with total ideological allies, when I conquer the Soviet Union, Japan places divisions on the border of Manchuria in order to cover the entire border, even though we are "best friends in the world", my first suspect about this is aI being oversensitive with WT generator, overrunning another "friendship" indicators.
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The soviets should get high malus from barbarossa start[like -25% org] that should sharply decline starting from october 1941 and ending with december 1941 at -10%, and then slower decline till july 1942 to 0. So you have few months of high malus of 25% then sharp decline to -10%, and then slow decline to 0%. This would simulate the mobilization they underwent at autumn 1941 and then slow regeneration after the winter all through the beginning of fall blau.
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I think you missed the forest for the trees there.
The Soviets already start with a lot of penalties from their negative national spirits they need to fix, the problem is they get steamrolled before they can fix it and form any functional defense.
They will have lost too many divs to keep a coherent frontline before they can get their spirits and economy rolling to push back the Germans.
It'd also possible they're selling off a portion of their equipment stockpile they'd be better off keeping to pump out more infantry to hold the line.
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How do you actually do this? Every time I try to block sea zones around Europe as another country to trade with the USSR via the Pacific the game just says there's no trade route.
No, I mean a human Soviet Union can do that.
Obviously, with an AI Soviet Union, you're out of luck.
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IRL the German destroyed at least 150 Soviet divisions during the first 6 months of Operation Barbarossa. At the same time, Soviest formed new division at to replace the lost ones. It's historical that the Soviet command was very bad in the beginning of WWII. Not much initiative without order from the top, in fear of being purged.
Give them the same debuffs as Nationalist China that requires army XP to remove?
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There is no need to attribute everything to incompetence; the Germans also had a large factor of luck and good timing on their side. From the very beginning, Soviet troops were divided into three echelons: partly on the border, partly on the way, just starting to move towards the border. And even in such enormously unfavorable conditions, the Soviet soldiers and command acted better than the French. If the USSR had had the time of the “Strange War” when there was a whole month to accumulate and prepare forces at the border, things would not have been much sweeter for the Germans. But life is not a game in which you can keep your entire army on the border and you won’t get anything for it.
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