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That applies to both our protagonists and the villagers.
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Okay, so I was stressed out today for various reasons, and somehow my idea of relaxing was to make an entire world map of the Annionaverse in 2018. So yeah, this is what I got after about 4 hours of work. I'm not going to color it in, I couldn't identify a few areas due to lack of information, I had to almost entirely make up the South American borders based on Vicky, and I am not going to depict whatever Lindi balkanized into because that would add another 4 hours of work and today's stressful enough.
I did change a few nation names from the game defaults to reflect the timeline and probably will look at more of them later on.
In summary: OH GOD THE BORDERGORE
I did change a few nation names from the game defaults to reflect the timeline and probably will look at more of them later on.
In summary: OH GOD THE BORDERGORE
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Well this puts the size of the HRE into perspective and made me remember a lot of lore I forgot about. Good job with the map. Seeing how you’ll do another map of Mars after Julius’ conquest and reconstructing of Mars, I wonder if you’ll consider doing administrative HTE maps for Venus or post Omega Alignment Earth?
Yeah, I took my interpretation of the Federal State Kingdoms that I mentioned in the Fringe arc and applied it to a few more countries that fell into the Austrian orbit after the war as either freed allies or satellites carved out of defeated enemies. I didn’t initially think of making Spain, Portugal, and Cordoba as FSKs, but it does make sense in context. Occitania isn’t an FSK because of its prior history with the HRE. As a result, the HRE’s European territories come very near to matching the size of the Reich’s heartland, although a lot of it isn’t directly controlled. It more than makes up for it by blobbing uncontrollably overseas, both because of a standard New World colonization and all of the shenanigans in Asia, whereas I intentionally held myself back even though I could have done the same.
I’ll definitely think of a future Earth map, but that will be posted around Stellaris. Not sure about Venus though.
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Indeed, I was particularly surprised to see Brazil being independent and England and Wales being directly controlled by the HRE, tho the later makes sense given the HRE’s deportation of Celts in France. The HRE has to put them somewhere after all, as horrifying and Jerusalem/Persia like as that sounds (man what is with France and facing horrific deportations committed by a German empire claiming to be the Roman Empire).
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I had to dig deep for most of the lore, but Brazil and the British Isles had HOI4 screenshots.Indeed, I was particularly surprised to see Brazil being independent and England and Wales being directly controlled by the HRE, tho the later makes sense given the HRE’s deportation of Celts in France. The HRE has to put them somewhere after all, as horrifying and Jerusalem/Persia like as that sounds (man what is with France and facing horrific deportations committed by a German empire claiming to be the Roman Empire).
The text says after Sudamerika’s defeat, Brazil was granted independence as a republic in the Continental Union’s sphere. It specifically says American but realistically it would be an effort by the alliance as a whole. It was the easiest of the South American nations to figure out, because the other 4 mentioned—Peru, Colombia, Guyana, and Kolonia—last existed in the middle of Victoria 2 if at all, and their borders were constantly in flux.
England and Wales were under Celtic Empire control, and the HRE took over the entire thing, so they got those regions. The text did make a big deal of Rouen becoming the HRE’s Vegas as well. Though I think the deportations focused on the Celts, so the French would probably be left alone. Ironically, the opposite happened in the Reich with only the French being targeted and Celts being spared. And it seems the Normans were lucky to be spared in both universes.
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I guess Fredrich the Great must've respected Robert as an opponent enough that his successors left them alone, tho I don't really see Robert as an honorable type. That, or the Normans after the Controversy would help out with stuff like castle building (given their Monte and Bailey method) and were deemed useful by the Roman government. Also the HRE must've done a horrible job at deradicalizing South America from fascism considering the Puritan Empire in Stellaris.
As for name changes that could reflect the timeline, calling Iraq the "Muhammadid Caliphate" could work. Seeing Iraq and North Saxony in Central Asia and Finland respectively threw me for a loop (heh) for a bit before I looked at the text again ngl.
About the places you're unsure about, based off what I can find India seems to control Madagascar and those tiny enclaves around FSK Cordoba seemed to have been controlled by Portugal and the Celtic Empire before the HRE took them over, here's the final Vicky 2 world map for reference. You are right about OTL Western Sahara and Maurentania being controlled by the HRE too.
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I think you quoted the wrong text block, but yeah, I do see Friedrich doing that despite knowing Robert wasn’t as honorable. And perhaps the Normans in France were more welcoming of Roman rule than the French themselves, which was why they were spared.
Dragoon did say that right before the nukes flew, revolutionaries rose up in South America again.
Yeah, those also threw me for a loop before I went “yep, that’s definitely a completely unscripted megacampaign starting in 769 CE.” The cultural distribution I imagine is weirder. Due to how cultures are represented in CK2, there isn’t much of a chance for cultural evolution and syncretization to happen, so the situation in 1453 will be similar to where you started unless you mess around. What I’m getting at is that the Visigoths and Old Saxons still exist, leading to craziness like 15th century Catholic Visigothic Umayyads becoming kings of Portugal and Saxons migrating into Scandinavia and remaining culturally distinct into the 20th century. The latter is my justification for calling that state in southern Finland as “North Saxony,” since Dragoon called it an Autonomous Germanic Republic. As for Iraq, I need to go back and check if the Muhammadid Caliphate survived past WW2.
The main thing I’m concerned about is that I swear I saw a hint of Celtic Empire blue in one of those Moroccan enclaves, and I can still make out their borders after the war ended.
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I just checked the relevant threads.
The last time Dragoon mentions them is in Victoria 2, specifically in a response to me about the Byzantine imperial dynasty’s fate, where he says the Muhammadids were exiled to Portugal, so they were overthrown at some point. They are not mentioned at all for the rest of the series. But since that rump “Kingdom of Iraq” appeared in the background of a screenshot, I think I’d be justified in assuming the Muhammadid Caliphate is restored, even if Dragoon probably stopped thinking about it a while ago. I’ll change it the next time I work on that map. Currently I got in the mood for adding some more cities to Fusang, Penglai, Qiandao, and Chinese Siberia on the Hohenzollernverse map after reading up on Divergences lore and binging the entirety of the Classics of Mountains and Seas. And I think I’ll finally stary working on a postwar map while the background lore I created for placenames is still fresh on my mind.
You know what, I’m just going to pretend the enclaves stopped existing after the war and got transferred FSK Cordoba or Austrian Western Sahara, for my own sanity.
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Okay, I think I'm done with the Hohenzollernverse map updates.
Fusang:
In keeping with the three courts system, each region of Fusang has placenames based on their court's policies. The Zhumasi court has more indigenous names. The Jinshan court is heavily Sinicized, but I put some settlements with Christian-inspired names in the interior to reflect the spread of Fusang Christianity during Empress Catherine's reign (there is a settlement named after her called "Sheng Kaiselin," or "Saint Catherine"). The Hongzhou court and its society remained welcoming of immigrants from Asia centuries after it was absorbed by Jinshan, so there are Korean, Mongolian, and Japanese settlements there, as well as a few indigenous ones.
The Central Valley, which I've called the Zhongyang Valley before ("Central Valley" in Chinese), has been renamed to the Chaoyang Valley, after a location in the Classics of Mountains and Seas where a god lives between two rivers. Sounds perfect for the Central Valley, which is irrigated by two rivers coming from the north and south.
Penglai:
More names here based on the Classics of Mountains and Seas. I then "Cantonized" them using my own romanization instead of Wiktionary's for something I think can be easily pronounced. The South Island, which I had previously called Te Waka a Maui or Te Waiponamu, finally gets a Chinese name, inspired by the one used in the Divergences rework. I also added a Penglai settlement in southern Papua and one in East Timor.
Qiandao:
Manila/Maynila doesn't come from Spanish, but I decided to replace it with the Chinese name Mayi, which is attested to in historical Chinese sources, although it's not clear if it refers to one island, the city of Manila, or to all South Sea islands in general. I added some Vietnamese cities to reflect the Vietnamese colonization, though their locations might not directly match up with what they got in the game. While working on this, I managed to flesh out the organization of Qiandao a bit more. It's a confederation of four kingdoms that had previously been Chinese or Vietnamese tributaries. The kingdoms are Sanzhou (Palawan), Lüsong (Luzon), Nguoi Ho (Visayas), and Van Do Lang (Mindanao). The first two are names from historical sources that were used by the colonizers to centralize authority in a single allied polity per island region, the third is a Vietnamese name I made up based on one etymology of Cebu, and the last is a Vietnamized name of a Chinese name for a historical state in Mindanao.
Chinese Siberia:
Not many here, but I found a couple Classics of Mountains and Seas locations that sounded appropriate and put them across Siberia. Yes, one of them is in Yavdian territory. Yavdi already has a history of heavy non-Mongol/Finnish settlement, and the border with China shifted a lot over the centuries, so it wouldn't be out of the question for majority Chinese settlements to show up on the Yavdian side of the border.
Fusang:
In keeping with the three courts system, each region of Fusang has placenames based on their court's policies. The Zhumasi court has more indigenous names. The Jinshan court is heavily Sinicized, but I put some settlements with Christian-inspired names in the interior to reflect the spread of Fusang Christianity during Empress Catherine's reign (there is a settlement named after her called "Sheng Kaiselin," or "Saint Catherine"). The Hongzhou court and its society remained welcoming of immigrants from Asia centuries after it was absorbed by Jinshan, so there are Korean, Mongolian, and Japanese settlements there, as well as a few indigenous ones.
The Central Valley, which I've called the Zhongyang Valley before ("Central Valley" in Chinese), has been renamed to the Chaoyang Valley, after a location in the Classics of Mountains and Seas where a god lives between two rivers. Sounds perfect for the Central Valley, which is irrigated by two rivers coming from the north and south.
Penglai:
More names here based on the Classics of Mountains and Seas. I then "Cantonized" them using my own romanization instead of Wiktionary's for something I think can be easily pronounced. The South Island, which I had previously called Te Waka a Maui or Te Waiponamu, finally gets a Chinese name, inspired by the one used in the Divergences rework. I also added a Penglai settlement in southern Papua and one in East Timor.
Qiandao:
Manila/Maynila doesn't come from Spanish, but I decided to replace it with the Chinese name Mayi, which is attested to in historical Chinese sources, although it's not clear if it refers to one island, the city of Manila, or to all South Sea islands in general. I added some Vietnamese cities to reflect the Vietnamese colonization, though their locations might not directly match up with what they got in the game. While working on this, I managed to flesh out the organization of Qiandao a bit more. It's a confederation of four kingdoms that had previously been Chinese or Vietnamese tributaries. The kingdoms are Sanzhou (Palawan), Lüsong (Luzon), Nguoi Ho (Visayas), and Van Do Lang (Mindanao). The first two are names from historical sources that were used by the colonizers to centralize authority in a single allied polity per island region, the third is a Vietnamese name I made up based on one etymology of Cebu, and the last is a Vietnamized name of a Chinese name for a historical state in Mindanao.
Chinese Siberia:
Not many here, but I found a couple Classics of Mountains and Seas locations that sounded appropriate and put them across Siberia. Yes, one of them is in Yavdian territory. Yavdi already has a history of heavy non-Mongol/Finnish settlement, and the border with China shifted a lot over the centuries, so it wouldn't be out of the question for majority Chinese settlements to show up on the Yavdian side of the border.
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Nice job Zen! On the topic of Maritime southeast Asia, have you considered adding Indian and Chinese place names to reflect colonial rule and Nustantara's Indian and Chinese populations? As for Africa, more Indian placenames for East Africa would be fitting as well.
Probably, but I do think the Malay/Indoneseian names in Nusantara would be appropriate due to decolonization. I'll think about it. Same deal with East Africa.
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On that note, if you're open to retcons, do you think you would be able to replace the straight lines in North America with more natural borders more akin to the EU4 borders than Vicky2/HOI4 like you did for the Hohenzollernverse Eimericas?
The reason I got rid of the straight lines in North Eimerica was because they made little sense for a continent primarily dominated by indigenous nations and not European colonies. Kanata and Fusang do exist, but they've been in North Eimerica for centuries. Their borders constantly changed due to colonial expansion and wars with the Mexica, Meskwaki, other indigenous nations, and each other, so it makes sense they don't have straight borders. But North America in the Annionaverse is completely dominated by European colonies, with the vast majority of indigenous peoples having been killed by the original strain of Pesah (which, on further reading, I found to be a mix of smallpox and necromancy-enhanced bubonic plague—I have an idea on how to integrate this with my existing lore, but I won't be writing it for a while). These colonies divided the colony up into areas of settlement by drawing straight lines on the map, because to them the continent was empty. So I think I'll keep the straight lines. The Annionaverse is an unscripted megacampaign where four games' worth of AI shenanigans and largely unrestrained player expansion led to the mess we see at the end of HOI4. On the other side of the spectrum, I was extremely tempted to clean up the bordergore in Eastern Europe, Finland, and Southeast Asia, but I decided to leave it alone. I also don't want to stray too far from Dragoon's initial vision. I've integrated the Annionaverse into this megacampaign very closely, but it's still his world at the end of the day. I don't want to retcon more than I have to.
It does feel like a bit of the Annionaverse's charm that the world in 2018 still clearly shows traces of where it started the 8th century, whether it be in the countries that exist (Alania), the borders (Lithuania), the ruling dynasties (Umayyads), the Annionas' names ("Gotzelo"), and the cultures that have remained in stasis since then (Visigoths and Saxons). In a way, all this, together with the vastly different worldview and themes that the Annionas embodied throughout their journey, make for a good contrast with the Hohenzollernverse.
That got me thinking, the lack of out of universe information about Annionaverse details could play an in-universe role. I've repeatedly mentioned how there aren't many dates listed in the various Annionaverse threads, and most of the existing information focuses on the HRE (obviously). So what if that is actually a thing in-universe? Dragoon did say that many records were lost after the nuclear war and history was rewritten on Mars after the HRE's victory over the other factions. That would explain why there are a lack of concrete dates for important events and why most of the readily accessible information is about the history of the HRE. Though it wouldn't explain why many Anniona emperors still lack concrete starting and ending years of their reigns.
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Did some more research on the following:
So you're right, the French themselves were targeted in addition to the Bretons and other Celts. Also, I'm going to need to redraw Occitania's borders.
Indeed, I was particularly surprised to see Brazil being independent and England and Wales being directly controlled by the HRE, tho the later makes sense given the HRE’s deportation of Celts in France. The HRE has to put them somewhere after all, as horrifying and Jerusalem/Persia like as that sounds (man what is with France and facing horrific deportations committed by a German empire claiming to be the Roman Empire).
What I found was this:
So you're right, the French themselves were targeted in addition to the Bretons and other Celts. Also, I'm going to need to redraw Occitania's borders.
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True, tho that text block said the deportations eventually came to an end due to public outcry, so it's likely the HRE shifted to trying to assimilate the French and Bretons into German culture. Then again, I could see Otto, given his experiences in the Hohenzollernverse, trying to fight against systemic discrimination in the HRE and try to give equal rights to the people in conquered territories once he becomes chancellor.
That does make a lot of sense, especially once the HTE emerges and the Worm Cult takes it over, leading to even more rewriting of history considering the Worm's desire to destroy civilization and remake it in its own image.
Yeah, even if the systemic discrimination is ended, there would still be plenty of unsystemic discrimination. And Annioanverse Otto would certainly speak out against it.
It would allow me to get around the fact that I lack a lot of critical information about the Annionaverse. Only issue is I still don't have exact dates for the Holy Terran Emperors' reigns, which is something they definitely kept track of.
Also, while I was looking up the above stuff, I stumbled across another human civilization that like Aeturnus remained relatively sane.
Dragoon only called it the Confederacy of Man or the Confederate Empire, but at some point it presumably becomes known as the Hegemony of Liberte. It's never outright stated when or why this happened, but I assumed it's still the same as the Confederacy because Dragoon still refers to the Confederacy/Confederate Empire even when I can't find it on the map, and the only human empire in the general area (Dragoon mentioned an alliance between them and the Malif and Illuminati) is Liberte. Unfortunately, despite surviving to the end of the game with roughly twice as many systems as Aeturnus, it was also overrun by Terran immigrants, so I can't say for sure how it is internally. Still, I like to think of Aeturnus as the leaders of non-Terran humanity, despite being devastated by the Unbidden and reduced to a buffer state between the Tuxhan and HTE.
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I was confused about the Hegomny of Liberte too as I don't remember Dragoon going over them but I remember the Confederacy of Man. I guess you could say the Confederacy went from an oligarchy to a true democracy over the across of Deus Ex Anniona to explain the in game name change, even if in universe it's still known as the Confederacy of Man.
Also going off these quotes, it seems Aeternus also got overwhelmed by Terran immigrants as well, or at least is in a bad situation after this and the Unbidden situtation. I see the Messalians and the Romans survived, but I could see the Aeternus being the most promient state opposed to the HTE, which isn't saying much.
About the Teutonic state in India, given the existence of the Teutonic state in space, I could see Julius finding plenty of Catholic Indians collaborators he could install as governs of Mangala territory, or at least non Catholic Indians that are sympathetic to Julius.
Yeah, the name "Liberte" was only mentioned once, in that passage you quoted. But Liberte appears on several maps whereas Confederacy of Man never did, even when Dragoon was clearly mentioning the Confederacy, so I put two and two together. I definitely do think the Confederacy ultimately evolved out of its flawed oligarchic democracy into a true democracy by 2490, yet that very democracy has become a weakness as the Terran citizens all vote for pro-HTE laws and policies and slowly turn Liberte (I like the name "Confederation of Liberte") into an HTE province.
Yeah, Aeturnus also got overrun by Terran immigrants. Yet I still see them remaining as the most prominent of the non-Terran human civilizations, with Liberte perhaps being the second most prominent. But non-Terran humanity is clearly struggling in 2490 with how those two are doing.
I think he'd just install some Austrian nobles from Olympus Base and call it a day.
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