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Developer Diary | Summer Open Beta

Hello there, it's me C0RAX.
A bit of the different DD than you’re used to this week. I'm here to introduce a new thing I will be doing over the summer. This summer for 4 weeks we will be giving you the chance to test some of the balance changes coming with the 1.13 Stella Polaris patch. These changes are hand picked for testing in order to get feedback from the community on specific changes that might have large impacts. These changes will affect all three major combat groups (Army, Air, and Navy), and vary from value changes to some new functionality and behavior so be sure to read the change list so you know what you're getting yourself into.

So let's go into how this is going to work. From July 6th until August 3rd there will be a special Summer Open Beta branch on steam, this branch will have the new changes listed below. Additionally it won't have anything new coming with Arms Against Tyranny just changes for base game and previously released DLC’s. In the last week of the test we will post a feedback form to be able to collect feedback data that we can use to analyze your responses. Of course this doesn’t mean you can’t or shouldn’t post about it outside the form, I want to encourage as much discourse, theorizing and number crunching as possible so give it a try and let us know what you think.

Now lets go over the change log.

################################################################
######## Summer Open Beta ######### Balance
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Air
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- Excess thrust will now increase agility instead of max speed (0.5 AGI per excess thrust)
- airframes now how base max speeds to better represent airframe size speed effects
- major air rebalance pass for airframes and modules
- increased tech date for survival studies to 1939
- Improved aircraft turrets
- slight decrease in agility hit for large bomb bays
- small airframe can only take single turret modules
- adjusted turret stats so they are less powerful for fighters but better for bombers
- rebalanced thrust and weights of modules and airframes,
- added new modules
- Large autocannon
- Large bomb rack
- Armor piercing bomb rack
- 3 levels of torpedo mounting
- Added new techs for plane designer (see above)
- Combat better Agility and Speed has increased effect on air combat

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Land
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- reduced terrain combat widths slightly, change support widths also
- Super Heavy tanks are now support units. Super Heavy tanks are no longer line battalions
- Armor skirts provide 1 more armor
- Most tank chassis' now grant 10-20% more armor
- Super heavy tanks now cost more overall, but require 20 per support company.

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Navy
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- added damage reduction to piecing thresholds for naval combat
- convoy hitprofile reduced from 120 to 85 bringing it inline with new hitprofile calculations
- Ship torpedoes accuracy increased to bring them back in line with new hitprofile calculations 145 > 100
- slightly decreased AA disruption from ship AA
- removed visibility effects of super heavy bb armor
- rebalanced, ship engines
- removed visibility impacts from medium guns
- rebalanced IC costs to reflect engine changes
- super heavy armor now part of normal heavy armors
- rebalanced armors
- added cruiser armor to carriers


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AI
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- AI more likely to upgrade division in the field even with equipment deficits
- added generic AI upgraded infantry template for late game infantry
- added ENG and USA upgraded infantry templates for AI and improved their infantry templates in general

Right now let's get into some explanations.

Thrust and weight:
Let's get the big one out the way thrust and weight for planes. This change requires a bit of game explanation and some explanation of aircraft. So why affect agility, agility previously was a stat that was seldom increased but often reduced by making it something you are rewarded by not using all your thrust budget you can lessen the agility effects of modules by not loading up your entire plane creating a choice between maximizing raw damage or maximizing damage bonuses during air to air combat by bring higher Agility.

Now the aircraft stuff, so power/weight is very not intuitive for aircraft, adding more power will make a plane faster but taking weight off a plane won't make it faster since speed is almost entirely determined by thrust against drag not weight. What less weight does provide is better climb rate acceleration plus some other things. These are abstracted into agility in game. So now if you want your plane to go faster you either use a newer airframe with lower drag (higher base speed) or by putting a bigger engine in the existing airframe.

Combat widths:
Now the next big change, terrain combat widths. This is the change that originally spawned the open beta idea. These changes are generally intended to flatten the efficiencies further for combat widths while also reducing division sizes. There will obviously still be certain numbers that fit better than others but overall these differences should be less extreme.

  • Terrain = CW+Reinforcement Width
  • Desert = 82+49
  • Forest = 76+40
  • Hills = 72+36
  • Jungle = 74+34
  • Marsh = 68+22
  • Mountain = 65+25
  • Plains = 82+49
  • Urban = 86+28
Ship penetration:
Finally the last change I want to discuss is the new penetration effect for ships. To put this imply they now reduce damage directly on top of reducing critical chance. The damage reductions are smaller than for land combat but that's because they have a much greater effect on the combat but be careful defeating an armored foe with just small guns should be much harder now.

Thresholds and damage are as follows

Pen to Armor ThreshholdCritical Change FactorDamage Factor
221
111
0.750.750.9
0.50.50.7
0.10.10.5
000.3

##########
HOTFIX
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07/07
- hotfix for legacy damage reduction for ships was conflicting with new system (they will now add to each other) set legacy value to 0
- hotfix for missing agility mods for bomb bays

10/07
Naval Combat:
- fixed damage reduction happening before stat initialisation
- fixed +1 to threshold values for ship penetration
issues reported here

- updated combat width defines as per
- implemented type 2 combat widths as per
- improved some templates for planes
- balance pass on new modules
- rebalanced dismantle and conversion costs for BB engines
- adjusted damage reduction thresholds for ships

That concludes the run down of the upcoming “Summer open beta” and it's coming to you tomorrow!. I hope to see you try it out and give feedback on the changes. See you next week for more Arms Against Tyranny content coming your way. It's going to be a pretty one.
 
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Part of the point of medium airframes is that they have significantly longer range than the lights. Makes perfect sense to me

Don't forget the engines provide a significant increase to range as well
That's not my point, my point is why does a 1936 medium have the same range as something 10 year better than it?
Its 10 years out of date by 1945, seems a bit stupid to me
 
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Really like the air rebalance and changes.

Can you please add medium naval bombers with these sweeping changes? As in torps on the primary armament slot for medium frames?
 
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View attachment 1002971
Still think torps are too weak imo, if all it takes is 10 empty CL's to result in them losing very badly
The tank changes are also questionable, unpierceable armour slave heavies might now be a proper thing again
@C0RAX Given light guns are getting their damage against armor reduced, will torpedoes be getting a damage increase to allow light craft some anti-heavy capabilites?
Theres definitely a fine line here with the naval changes, but I think theyre for the best. If you know about navy then you probably know that the current meta is soft attack focused light cruisers, or soft attack destroyers. The reasons this meta is so prevalent is because the heavy ships can be completely ignored, because once the enemy screen is down, the torpedoes make short work of battleships. The only real reason I see people building battleships is to further screen their carriers from heavy attack or torpedoes. I think this change will lead to people make more well balanced navies, destroyers and torpedoes still have their place, they're just not what naval combat will revolve around now.
 
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Theres definitely a fine line here with the naval changes, but I think theyre for the best. If you know about navy then you probably know that the current meta is soft attack focused light cruisers, or soft attack destroyers. The reasons this meta is so prevalent is because the heavy ships can be completely ignored, because once the enemy screen is down, the torpedoes make short work of battleships. The only real reason I see people building battleships is to further screen their carriers from heavy attack or torpedoes. I think this change will lead to people make more well balanced navies, its for the best.
BB's are the current meta, not CL's
 
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you're saying battleships are meta in the current patch? I havent heard that opinion from anyone else, there are a few youtube videos and spreadsheets floating around the internet, im almost certain that cruisers and destroyers are the meta.
1688664333791.png

I have used this design in competitive hist games against good players
With the new changes though, might not be meta anymore, navy changes all the time
 
View attachment 1002979
I have used this design in competitive hist games against good players
With the new changes though, might not be meta anymore, navy changes all the time
Well I didnt meant to say that making battleships dont work, especially since you can retreat after sinking a few enemy battleships. But there are people who've crunched the numbers and making cruisers or destroyers with only light attack modules gets you the most return for production cost by a lot.
 
Well I didnt meant to say that making battleships dont work, especially since you can retreat after sinking a few enemy battleships. But there are people who've crunched the numbers and making cruisers or destroyers with only light attack modules gets you the most return for production cost by a lot.
I mean, i did a quite a bit of naval testing when the new hit profile changes came out, CL's are good, 2nd best but they don't beat BB's consistently
Some empty armoured CL's counter it anyway
 
What a nice and cool surprise for the hot summer approaching... :cool:

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Air
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(...)
- reduced terrain combat widths slightly, change support widths also
It is slightly confusing that the combat width change is listed in the air section - unless I have missed something, CW is a land-only thing, correct?

- Super Heavy tanks are now support units. Super Heavy tanks are no longer line battalions
:cool: ...and I wonder if that open the chance that certain AIs will start making use of those?

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AI
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- AI more likely to upgrade division in the field even with equipment deficits
- added generic AI upgraded infantry template for late game infantry
- added ENG and USA upgraded infantry templates for AI and improved their infantry templates in general
Just wanting to express my gratitude for any AI improvement, it is appreciated.

See you next week for more Arms Against Tyranny content coming your way. It's going to be a pretty one.
Nice for us that the summer break for HoI4 seems to come later than for other titles, but of course you all have deserved your summer holidays !
 
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looks like you might need to use an extra fuel tank if you want more range.
True yeah, with the buff they got
Speaking of more air, the axis kinda gets screwed in the air war even more now with the 1944 airframe having an extra slot, axis just gets way worse fighters as a whole due to the allies getting the 44 airframe super early from aus, the allied fighters are just way better now, its gonna be tougher for the axis to compete in the air
 
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It is slightly confusing that the combat width change is listed in the air section - unless I have missed something, CW is a land-only thing, correct?
oops fixed it
Nice for us that the summer break for HoI4 seems to come later than for other titles, but of course you all have deserved your summer holidays !
Dev diaries wont be stopping for HOI4 even in summer :cool:
 
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True yeah, with the buff they got
Speaking of more air, the axis kinda gets screwed in the air war even more now with the 1944 airframe having an extra slot, axis just gets way worse fighters as a whole due to the allies getting the 44 airframe super early from aus, the allied fighters are just way better now, its gonna be tougher for the axis to compete in the air
aus getting airframes super early is known and something I want to address, just not in this beta
 
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1945 small airframe gets tied for range by 1936 medium? sounds real stupid to me
Drop tanks are still almost free (ok, -1.5 agility now) and exclusive to light frames only. HFs were nerfed recently by widening the max agility diff margin.
 
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These make 40-45w not the same high width peak for efficiency and flatten most of the rest of the curve so the efficiency losses are not quite so harsh from one width to the other when fighting on the common terrain sets
This CW change isn't solution. This change will literally annoy players instead changing the game. Like you want to fight in USSR, you have mostly forests and plains in Europe part, this can be easy. But you have France, you can't free operate with tanks without getting headache. You won't have time to care about CW, you want to push France as Germany, but France has plains, hills, forests and some mountains, and I have to remember that all these things will be ruined by rivers. Maybe instead changing CW of terrains, could be better change CW of battalions, support companies, maybe give to every doctrine thing like Massive Assault has. I think this idea (make really different numbers for every terrain) can work, but it will require to increase CW on all terrains and change division designer to have more battalions to change, and make finding largest common divisor for certain theatre easier, making different CW, but without annoying players.
 
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This CW change isn't solution. This change will literally annoy players instead changing the game. Like you want to fight in USSR, you have mostly forests and plains in Europe part, this can be easy. But you have France, you can't free operate with tanks without getting headache. You won't have time to care about CW, you want to push France as Germany, but France has plains, hills, forests and some mountains, and I have to remember that all these things will be ruined by rivers. Maybe instead changing CW of terrains, could be better change CW of battalions, support companies, maybe give to every doctrine thing like Massive Assault has. I think this idea (make really different numbers for every terrain) can work, but it will require to increase CW on all terrains and change division designer to have more battalions to change, and make finding largest common divisor for certain theatre as I said.
The big point with this is the efficiency difference is very low from one CW to another so you don't need to care so much so long as you in are in the "good" range of CW's somewhere between 10-45cw. of course you can specifically design for a terrain type but this is a rare case.
 
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