3.6 "Orion" Open Beta - General Feedback Thread

[Palp]

Hello there I wonder in what file I find the assigned ethics and ethos points? It used to be in 00_defines.txt, with these lines:

ETHOS_MAX_POINTS = 3 # Number of points which you can spend on ethos.

GOVERNMENT_CIVIC_POINTS_BASE = 2 # Base amount of civic points (to "pay" for government civic costs)

But now changing them seems to do nothing.

Never mind, was due to me having a copy of the file in a subfolder I think.

 

[ZeeHero]

So When I attacked the nearby FE as galactic custodian, they soon after awakened and formed the guardians of the galaxy with the other FE as if a crisis had begun but there was none, no empire became crisis and no endgame crisis started.

Also the galaxy is full of empires with no name.

 

[Adac50]

What's up with the AI piling all their fleets into one group and travelling around like this? They do the same thing when I'm in a war as their allies and their ships follow one of my fleets.
imgur link because the website didn't like my screenshot:

https://imgur.com/pUVeDM6

 

[Phuckyou]

with the introduction of the new lithoid livestock trait for gene modding, you should give non necrophage hives the ability to grow livestock it doesn't make sense that they can't while machines can.

 

[SirBlackAxe]

Regarding the Holy Conclave federation type
Context: I started as a Spiritualist/Xenophile/Egalitarian empire with the Common Ground origin, and selected the Holy Ground federation type when prompted at the beginning of the game. Game has run until 2325, at which point the federation is level 4 and expects to reach level 5 before 2350.

The federation type does do things I like - the unity focus, interacting with the ascension mechanic - but it was a recurring issue that a new federation level would unlock and nothing interesting would happen because the majority of the federation perks are blank if you reach them too early. Levels 2 and 4 gave me absolutely nothing when I first reached them.

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Federation perks and features analysis

• Level 1: Opener is fine.
  • +10% unity: A good effect.
  • EDIT: +5% Traditionalist faction approval: Very nice to have, and more relevant than you might think.
    • With my max investment in traditionalist approval (consecrated worlds and no robots), that +5% keeps me at the 80% approval threshold for +10% pop happiness even when I have a shroud bane.
• Level 2: Little benefit when first reached, some benefit at higher levels.
  • +50% cohesion per envoy: Generally worth +1 envoys for human players once the federation reaches level 3and passes medium centralization and low fleet contribution.
    • Effect was useless at unlock for me because cohesion was already 100% and there aren't enough laws to reduce the monthly cohesion to less than what 1 envoy per member produces. Would be relevant for federations aggressively subjugating their neighbors, though.
  • +20% spiritualist attraction in your own empire per envoy assigned to federation: Meh.
    • Spiritualists don’t really need more sources of spiritualist attraction, and they often want their pops to be other ethics with higher faction approval. Especially before they complete psionic ascension. Effect was detrimental at unlock for me, since my xenophile and progressive factions had significantly higher approval.
    • Mostly relevant for the increased spiritualist attraction it provides for non-spiritualist empires.
  • +1 culture worker job from t3 capitals and +2 from t4 capitals. Ok.
    • Common Ground: Perk unlocked before t3 capitals were researched, making the effect useless on unlock. Should probably be changed to +1 Culture Worker job at 25 pops and +2 at 50 pops in order to remove the tech requirements.
    • As of 2325 (and 3/4th of the way from level 4 to level 5) this is giving me 6 culture workers plus an additional 5 unfilled or disabled culture worker jobs.
    • Note that this reduces spiritualist ethics attraction in non-spiritualist empires due to the +10% governing ethic attraction effect culture workers have.
  • +25% president voting strength for Divinity of Life resolutions. Theoretically interesting, but not enough to matter.
    • Common Ground: Perk unlocked before the galactic community was formed, making the effect useless on unlock.
    • Despite proposing Comfort the Fallen the day the community formed (around 2245) and generally positive relations with almost every other default empire in the galaxy (one with negative and one with neutral at +60, everyone else is at least cordial) the resolution still hasn’t made it the senate floor as of 2325, 80 years later. 14 other resolutions have passed so far. More than 70% of the community’s diplomatic weight is behind the proposal, but (almost all) other t1 resolutions are even more popular.
    • It might be worth expanding this to impact all Environment and Technology resolutions, so that it also helps repeal Unchained Knowledge.
• Level 3: Loaded with usefulness. Should share some with the adjacent levels.
  • President: -20% planetary ascension cost: Very good.
  • +20% Planetary ascension effects: Good.
    • Common Ground: Perk unlocked while I still only had a single planetary ascension.
  • Holy Covenant trade policy: Very good.
  • Low fleet contribution: Good, but pretty late.
    • Why does a Trade League get better access to a federation fleet than the federation filled with Evangelizing Zealots?
• Level 4: Nice if you’re the president and you have access to the shroud and you haven't gotten all the shroud visions yet, basically a dead level for everyone else.
  • (President) -20% shroud cooldown time: Seems good, although obviously utterly useless to any empire that hasn’t psionically ascended.
    • Would be more interesting if it also allowed the president to share their shroud boons (and banes), at least partially, with federation members. That would incentivize ensuring a psionic empire is president even if you aren’t, as long as the game provided a better way of doing that than via psionic battle.
    • Actually turns into a downside once you've gotten all the shroud techs and single-time events, since at that point you're just paying 20% more energy for random boons and banes due to the more frequent dives with no benefit from delving more frequently.
    • I don't actually remember if the federation reached level 4 before I had shroud access or not.
  • +1 priest per 25 pops on planets with unity designations, scaling with ascension tier: Very bad.
  • EDIT: +1 priest per 25 pops on planets with unity designations, scaling with ascension tier: Bad if you have a Ecumenopolis for unity. Good if you're using Wenkwort Artem for unity. Fine otherwise, as long as you're ascending a densely populated unity planet.
    • By the point in the game where you have a 25+ pop planet that you’re willing to dedicate to unity, you have an Ecumenopolis and no shortage of priest jobs. Even if you don't take Arcology Project, this will get you maybe two priest jobs on the single colony you dedicate to unity production. And that planet won't need to max upgrade all its temples during the course of normal gameplay, so this perk is effectively worth the upgrade cost and upkeep increase for a single temple upgrade: 200 minerals, 50 rare crystals, 3 monthly energy, and 1 monthly rare crystal. Which isn't nothing, but 70+ years into the game it's pretty close.
    • Would be a little better if it also applied to your capital:
      • This is likely where your ascensions are going in the first half of the game and your priest jobs are going once you establish a good tech-world, since you're much more likely to find a planet with a bonus to research than one with a bonus to unity.
  • +1 high priest jobs from Sacred Nexus buildings: Poor.
    • Common Ground: Perk unlocked before Sacred Nexus buildings were researched, making the effect useless on unlock.
    • Arcology Project: I’ve got an Ecumenopolis for unity, I don’t expect to ever build a single Sacred Nexus in this entire game which makes this perk completely useless. I never even built a Holotemple, and as of 2325 there are only 3 active temples remaining in my 510 pop & 21 colony empire.
    • Does NOT apply to the Citadel of Faith. It would be better if it did.
    • Could this be made to apply to Ecclesiastical Arcologies? I’d get 2 high priest jobs from that.
    • Swapping one politician for a high priest in t4 capitals might be ok.
  • EDIT: The Empowerment of the Priestly Class perk (which gives you extra priest jobs so you don't need as many temples) and the Saintly Hierarchy perk (which rewards you for fully upgrading temples) are anti-synergistic with each other.
  • Regarding additional priest/high priest job effects: As of 2325, I’m producing over 4,600 monthly unity from 16 priests, 20 high priests (exalted priesthood), 57 culture workers, and 19 telepaths. I also have an additional 41 unfilled or disabled culture worker jobs, and 11 colonies that aren’t able to build a Psi-Corps yet. That’s more empty culture worker jobs than priests, high priests, and telepaths combined, by the way. There’s little reason not to build the max monument possible on most colonies, disabling the jobs while they have lower pop counts and enabling them when there are enough pops for the culture worker effects to be impactful. Effects that give me additional unity jobs simply aren’t interesting this late in the game.
• Level 5:
  • (President) +20% Edicts fund: Bad.
    • By the time it’s possible to get level 5, even with Common Ground, edict fund is a joke. In 2325 (with level 5 still around 22 years away) this would save me 62.8 unity a month. Which is almost exactly 1.5% of my 4,185 monthly unity income and less than the output of two priests, who produce 24.7 unity and 8 edicts fund each.
    • Either drop this effect down to like level 2, make it a reduction in edict upkeep so it scales better, or replace the effect with something else.
      • EDIT: Not too long ago there was a cool suggestion for rulers to trade half their unity output for edict fund production. Access to a higher base edict fund to scale off of would make this better, although I'm uncertain as to how much.
  • (Non-Spiritualist Non-Gestalt Members) Bureaucratic buildings are swapped for temples.
    • Would be much more useful at an earlier level, where nudging members towards spiritualism to reduce the cohesion penalty for diverse ethics would help you get to level 5.
    • The bonus amenities this ends up giving is also more enticing earlier in the game before you stack many amenities modifiers.
    • How likely is this level to be reached while still having non-spiritualist empires in the federation?
  • (Spiritualist Members) +1 unity from priests: Base output modifiers are always good.
    • Although at this point of the game you already have all traditions unlocked.
  • +15% organic pop growth, -30% robotic pop assembly:
    • I don't think AI empires are smart enough to stop building robots and throwing alloys down a hole.
    • This does come much, much, much later than others empires gain access to pop assembly.
  • Zro Catalysis edict: Looks good on paper, but haven’t reached level 5 to test it out yet.
    • Edict gives +15% psionic pop output if you have utopia, or +10% organic pop output if you don’t. Pretty good, although having Utopia obviously makes it much worse for non-psionic empires.
    • By level 5 it’s probably* reasonable to assume most, if not all, non-gestalt empires at least have access to Zro via the galactic market. It will be relatively expensive in energy to pay for the edict that way, but again by this point in time energy costs shouldn’t be too much of an issue. There’s an equation you could calculate here for the ratio of technicians to zro market cost at which this edict pays for itself, but I’m not going to work it out right now.
      • *Assuming the galaxy contains a Zro deposit, and a galactic community member claimed that system.
    • Punishes roleplay empires that want to have a psionic ruling class instead of assimilating all their pops.
      • I feel like maybe psionic pop job output modifiers should just be organic thinking pop multipliers. The ones from telepath jobs are already gated behind psionic ascension, and the edict could be +5% organic pops output and an additional +5% per telepath job.
    • The synergy with free migration to get psionic pops in non-psionic members is cute.
  • Medium fleet contribution: Good effect, but very late.

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Major issue: Far too many of the federation's perks are gated behind things entirely separate from the federation itself. If you take out all the effects with benefits that are gated by things like techs, traditions, and pops to work jobs, the federation perks look like this:

1. (1/1 perks) +10% Unity
2. (1/3 perks) +50% cohesion and +20% own-empire spiritualist attraction from envoys assigned to federation.
   • Promotion of Culture:
     • Tier 2 society technology, including researching Planetary Unification and Colonial Centralization (and tier 3 with Galactic Administration for full benefits).
     • Benefiting from bonus Culture Worker jobs requires pops to work them and paying CG upkeep.
   • The galactic community must exist and you must be a member.
3. (1/3perks) Access to the Holy Covenant trade policy, access to the Low Fleet Contribution federation law.
   • You must have at least 3 ascension perks in order to access planetary ascension, and enough surplus unity generation to spend large amounts on something besides traditions and edicts.
4. (0/3perks) Nothing.
   • Tier 3 society tech, researching Psionic Theory, taking the Mind over Matter Ascension perk, and mostly completing the Psionics tradition are required to benefit from the shroud cooldown reduction.
   • You must have at least two colonies, including a non-capital colony with at least 25 pops, to benefit from the unity designation effects.
     • Having enough colonies and pops to dedicate a 25 pop colony to unity generation probably requires more than that minimum, though.
     • Benefiting (marginally) from bonus priest jobs requires pops to work them and paying CG upkeep.
   • Tier 3 society tech and researching Colonial Centralization, Holographic Rituals, and Consecration Fields, as well as researching a source of rare crystals and having a colony with a tier 3 capital building, is required to benefit from the sacred nexus high priest effect.
5. (2/3perks) +20% president edicts fund, either bureaucrats are swapped for priests or priests produce +1 unity depending on whether or not you're spiritualist, +15% pop growth and -30% robotic assembly, access to the Medium Fleet Contribution federation law.
   • Zro Catalyisis: The edict requires access to Zro, which means either you need a deposit or the galactic market exists, you're a galactic community member, and another galactic community member has a Zro deposit.
     • I don't think the galaxy is guaranteed to have a Zro deposit unless the Shroudwalkers spawn.

8/14 perks do nothing if you don't meet additional requirements beyond just reaching the federation level to unlock them. Possibly this lines up fine for empires that don't use the common ground origin, but I would also expect this to cause issues when using game settings that increase tech and tradition costs.

Issue: Job granting effects don't feel particularly good, especially if the jobs aren't from planet-unique buildings. I can build more jobs as needed.

Issue: AI empires will have difficulty accessing some of the benefits:

• AI almost exclusively uses industrial and urban designations, so it typically won't get any benefit from unity designation bonuses.
• AI is currently unable to access the shroud, rendering the shroud delve cooldown useless, although I do expect this bug to be fixed.
• AI empires are blocked from taking an ascension path if they have fewer than 6 colonies, so smaller ones, enlightened primitives, and released sectors are often locked out of ascension. As above, no ascension means no shroud access and no benefit from shroud cooldown reduction.
• The restrictions AI empires have on embracing factions (they can't do it unless they have at least 4 different factions and their ruler leads the one they want to embrace) will prevent many of them shifting ethics towards spiritualism.
  • Increased spiritualist attraction effects can actually make it less likely for AI to embrace the Traditionalist faction, since reducing the attraction for other ethics may prevent them from forming the four factions required.
  • AI will also never embrace a faction while traditions cost less, because it will immediately buy the next tradition instead of saving up. AI typically must be partway through their third tradition tree in order to embrace a faction, with the exact number of traditions required varying with empire size.
• Not sure AI is smart enough to buy Zro every month just to pay edict upkeep.

Issue: The Psionic Battle challenge type is extremely outdated. The recent dev diary actually mentioned a challenge type - the conclave - which I was unaware existed. Is that actually in the beta? I don't like how the challenge succession type hides all challenge types if it's not active, because that heavily disincentivizes changing to it in order to see the options and risking not wanting any of them but needing to wait 10 years to change back to the previous succession type.

Possible issue: The federation being focused on psionic ascension means the federation fleet will very likely have access to psionic components, which require Zro.

• This might block some members from building ships for the federation fleet.
• Will AI presidents create ship designs for the federation fleet using components that cost Zro if they have no Zro income?

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Proposed revisions
I'm aware that sticking additional effects in obviously makes the federation type stronger, but I was more concerned with addressing what I consider structural issues than with balancing everything.

• Level 1
  • Monthly unity +10%
  • Added effect: Capital colony designations grant -10% administrator/priest upkeep (making them as effective as the unification/ecclesiastical designation for unity, since they already have +10% output).
    • Alternatively, you could attach this to Empowerment of the Priestly Class if making that perk also apply to the capital designation. I prefer it earlier so you can develop around the effect, though.
  • Added faction effects:
    • -n% unity cost to embrace the Traditionalist faction.
      • This reduces the number of traditions an AI needs to take before it's able to shift ethics towards spiritualism, which is relevant both in the early game and for any late spawn empires such as enlightened primitives.
      • -20% (4,000 unity) guarantees they'll be able to afford the shift before picking their 3rd tradition category.
      • -33% (3,350 unity) guarantees they'll be able to afford the shift before completing their 2nd tradition category (and picking their 2nd ascension perk).
      • Alternative: Reduction based on federation cohesion?
    • The Traditionalist faction can't be suppressed.
  • Added AI effects:
    • AI empires may embrace the Traditionalist faction...
      • ...even if they have fewer than four factions.
      • ...if their ruler doesn't lead the Traditionalist or Technologist factions, as long as the faction has at least 30%/60% support, depending on whether or not they're already spiritualist. (The normal thresholds are 20%/50%.)
    • AI empires may take the Mind over Matter ascension perk even if they own fewer than 6 colonies.
• Level 2 (10 years of 100% cohesion)
  • Promotion of Culture: Tier 3 capitals grant +1 Culture Worker job. Tier 4 capitals grant +2 Culture Worker jobs.
    • New effect: Capital buildings grant +1 Culture Worker job per 25 pops (max 2).
      • This removes the tech-gating from this perk.
      • Alternative: The next capital building tech is always available as long as any member has researched it (Planetary Unification -> Colonial Centralization -> Galactic Administration). Rare crystal techs are always available if any member has researched them.
    • Added effect: Culture Workers give +10% Spiritualist Ethics Attraction in non-Spiritualist empires.
      • This helps counter the net reduction in spiritualist ethic attraction from culture workers giving +10% governing ethics attraction.
  • Empowerment of the Priestly Class: Unity-focused colony designations grant +1 priest job per 25 pops.
    • Moved down from level 4.
    • Modified effect: Empire Capital and Unity-focused colony designations grant +1 priest job per 25 pops.
      • This effect is much more relevant on your capital, which is likely to have your highest number of pops and therefor the most bonus priest jobs, the most benefit from free jobs, and the most benefit from a few extra amenities. It's also much more likely to have planetary ascensions.
    • Added effect (if not granted by level 1): Capital designation gains -10% priest upkeep (which makes it just as effective as a Ecclesiastical Center designations for a unity focus, since it already has the +10% output).
  • (President) Reverent Edicts: Edict fund +20%
    • Moved down from level 5, so that you get it before the unity snowball obsoletes the mechanic.
  • The Low Fleet Contribution law is available with low centralization (down from medium).
• Level 3 (30 years of 100% cohesion)
  • Note: This is probably the level by which you want sharing Psionic Theory in some fashion to become possible. Could be via a rare tech boost (Psionics), trading it as a research option, a recurring mtth event, or some other method.
  • Ecclesiastical Funding: Enables the Holy Covenant trade policy.
  • Proselytizing envoys: +50% cohesion gain and +20% owner spiritualist attraction from envoys.
    • Moved up from level 2, so that the extra cohesion is relevant.
    • Possible additional effect: Associate envoys improving relations with federation members give their owner +20% spiritualist attraction.
      • Minor and not particularly necessary, but does help expand the federation a bit by making associates spiritualist enough to want to join.
  • (President) Spread the Holy Word: +25% voting strength on Divinity of Life resolutions.
    • Moved up from level 2, so that the galactic community is more likely to exist. If no changes are made to the effect in order to help Divinity of Life resolutions make it to the senate floor, you could push it up to level 4 or possibly even level 5 and see no difference in when Comfort the Fallen gets voted on.
    • Modified effect: Envoys assigned to the federation increase the president's voting strength on Environment and Technology resolutions by 10% of their owner's voting strength.
      • This effectively makes assigning an envoy to the federation provide the same voting weight boost as assigning it to the galactic community, but only in this category and under the president's control.
      • Expanding the effect to include all resolution groups in the environment and technology allows the increased diplo weight to also apply to repealing unchained research resolutions and passing research sanctions to give the breachable divinity of life resolutions some teeth.
    • Added effect: President can declare Divinity of Life resolutions emergency measures if they're supported by at least 50% of the galactic community's total diplomatic weight.
      • Emergency measures are the only way to get Divinity of Life resolutions to the senate floor in a reasonable timeframe that doesn't span centuries.
      • This emergency measure declaration/cooldown should be associated with the federation independent of other sources of emergency measure declarations so that using it doesn't prevent the use of e.g. a galactic council emergency measure declaration.
• Level 4 (70 years of 100% cohesion)
  • Saintly Hierarchy: Sacred Nexus buildings give +1 High Priest job.
    • Modified effect: +1 High Priest job per 6 Priests or High Priests.
      • This removes the tech gate and synergizes with other sources of priests such as Ecclesiastical Arcologies, the earlier Empowerment of the Priestly Class perk, and Numistic Shrines.
      • Needs to also count high priests so that a priest promoting into a high priest doesn't immediately lose its job due to the number of priests decreasing.
    • Alternative: +1 High Priest job from Sacred Nexus buildings and Ecclesiastical arcologies. The next temple tech is always available as long as any member has researched it (Holographic Rituals -> Consecration Fields -> Metacognitive Faith).
  • Heavenly Accord: +20% planetary ascension effects.
    • Moved up from level 3. More relevant once you've gotten a few more planetary ascensions.
  • (President) In Pursuit of Ascension: -20% planetary ascension cost.
    • Moved up from level 3.
  • The Medium Fleet Contribution law is available with high centralization (down from very high).
• Level 5 (150 years of 100% cohesion)
  • A Union of Faith: Does a whole bunch of stuff.
  • Zro Catalysis: Enables the Zro Catalysis edict.
    • Additional effect: Zro is unlocked on the market for all members.
      • Possibly unnecessary if a Shroud vision that spawns a Zro deposit is added?
  • (President) Shroud Delving: Shroud delve cooldown -20%.
    • Moved up from level 4, which isn't necessarily ideal. More frequent delves are more useful earlier in the game while you're still looking for unique visions.
    • Additional effect: Shroud delve energy cost -20%.
      • This keeps the cost-per-year of shroud empire modifiers the same, so that this effect is never a downside.
    • Additional effect: The President's shroud boon and bane empire modifiers are applied to all federation members.
      • Thus incentivizing a psionic president, even if that renders you ineligible.
  • A federation law to restrict the presidency to empires with psionic ascension becomes available as long as at least one non-subject member has completed the psionics tradition tree.
• Other thematic effects I'd like to see:
  • If any member has the Psionic Barrier technology, it's added to the tech pool of all other spiritualist members.
    • Given the smaller and later federation fleet, I'd just generally like an easier time spreading psionic ship component techs around to other members so they can use them in their personal fleets.
  • Easier access to the Ascension Theory tech, so you can unlock ambitions and have something to spend all your unity on. I spent a while after completing my traditions during level 4 producing more unity than I had a practical use for while waiting for this tech to drop.
    • Less of an issue if the bug where planetary ascensions increase your empire size instead of decreasing it is fixed, I suppose.
  • The ability to denounce empires who offend your spiritualist sensibilities.
  • Swapping some clerks for prosperity preachers would be neat, but likely makes more sense as a civic.
  • Non-spiritualist members swap half their bureaucrats for priests and +2.5% spiritualist attraction, making the union of faith effects partially available at an earlier level. Or maybe just make their bureaucrats add +1 amenities and +1.25% spiritualist attraction each.
  • EDIT: Non-spiritualist members gain access to the Proclaim Religious Revelation minor artifact action.

 

[Caligula Caesar]

• +1 priest per 25 pops on planets with unity designations, scaling with ascension tier: Very bad.

I'm just gonna point out that the 1 per 25 pops is multiplied by planetary ascension. With maximum planetary ascension level and bonuses, this means 1 priest per 4 pops. This means that you can fund a veritable unity factory and spread your planetary ascensions across the galaxy - it is the very opposite of "very bad"

 

[SirBlackAxe]

I'm just gonna point out that the 1 per 25 pops is multiplied by planetary ascension. With maximum planetary ascension level and bonuses, this means 1 priest per 4 pops. This means that you can fund a veritable unity factory and spread your planetary ascensions across the galaxy - it is the very opposite of "very bad"

I'm just unconvinced* that "number of available priest jobs" is a meaningful economic bottleneck. I can produce just as many identical priest jobs by building temples and ecclesiastical arcologies, but I still need the same number of pops to work them - the advantage the perk offers is in saved energy and rare crystal upkeep (at the cost of the bonus High Priest jobs from the Sacred Nexus buildings granted by the Saintly Hierarchy perk) with no direct impact on my ability to produce unity. This does translate into some technicians, miners, and translucers becoming available to work other jobs, at a rate of ~1 free pop per 18 pops on the max ascension investment ecclesiastical center (using the approximate values of 23 energy per technician, 20 minerals per miner, and 3 crystals per translucer that I'm seeing in my current game). Which isn't nothing, but it's still only based on that one max investment planet, and the upkeep savings seem to compare unfavorably to using an Urban designation (which also doesn't seem to lose out on unity as much as you might think thanks to the trade policy the federation gives)

*On further consideration, this effect does address the building slot issue unity planets have, particularly for Psionic empires, if you don't take Arcology Project: Hypercomms Forum + Citadel of Faith + Psi Corps + Sanctum + Ministry of Culture uses up 5/11 slots just for buildings that buff unity output, leaving just 6 slots for Sacred Nexus buildings (or less, if you want a Numistic Shrine or Galactic Stock Exchange). So the effect is probably good for empires that are investing in unity, aren't taking the Arcology Project AP, and don't have a relic world they want to make into an Ecclesiastical Ecumenopolis. Why would an empire investing in unity choose not to go for ecclesiastical arcologies, though? The one specific example I can think of (besides being blocked from taking it by stuff like being Agrarian Idyll or not having the DLC) is if the empire owns Wenkwort Artem, which nets a total of +70% admin output between the planet modifiers and Gaia effects.

• In order to avoid anti-synergy with the Saintly Hierarchy perk, either it should also give +1 High Priest jobs per 150 pops from unity designations or Saintly Hierarchy should grant High Priest jobs based on the number of priests.
• The game could use more planetary modifiers or features that increased unity or admin output by more than +20%, and are removed by or prevent converting the planet to an Ecumenopolis. Being able to get a higher unity output per pop if you opt out of using arcologies to spam priests makes alternative sources of priests more attractive when building slot limits come into play.
  • +15% is good enough on Gaia worlds when combined with the +10% from the planet class.
  • Reductions in admin or specialist upkeep, either in general or specifically for consumer goods, could also work.
• This is unrelated, but I just remembered that I forgot to mention that the +5% traditionalist faction approval from being in a Holy Conclave is actually super relevant and useful. With my max investment in traditionalist approval (consecrated worlds and no robots), that +5% keeps me at the 80% approval threshold for +10% pop happiness even when I have a shroud bane.

74 pops, T5 Ascension Ecumenopolis	Ecclesiastical Center		Ecumenopolis (designation)
Designation effects 12 Priests 3 High Priests 5 Telepaths 11 Culture Workers	+28.12% Priest Administrator output -28.12% Priest Administrator upkeep +1 Priest per 8 pops (+9 w/ 74 pops, so -1.5 ecclesiastical districts)		-70.31% Structure upkeep +56% Trade Value
Energy upkeep	-114+(1.5x4.5)=-107.25 -59.4 if accounting for TV	+77.25, or -72% +93.4, or -157%	-30 +34 if accounting for TV
Rare Crystals upkeep (+0.26 from Scintillating Skin lithoids)	-3.34+(1.5x0.9)=-1.99	+1.47, or -74%	-0.52
Consumer Goods upkeep	-74 total -38.97 from priests & culture workers	-17.7, or +45%	-92 total -56.7 from priests & culture workers
Unity output	+923 +970.845 if accounting for TV	-53, or -6% -36.6, or -4%	+870 +934.255 if accounting for TV
Research output (Whisper telepaths)	+93/90/93	-8, or -9%	+85/82/84
Trade Value	95.69 (47.845 energy & unity)	+32.8, or +34%	128.51 (64.255 energy & unity)

 

[Abdulijubjub]

I'm just unconvinced* that "number of available priest jobs" is a meaningful economic bottleneck. I can produce just as many identical priest jobs by building temples and ecclesiastical arcologies, but I still need the same number of pops to work them - the advantage the perk offers is in saved energy and rare crystal upkeep (at the cost of the bonus High Priest jobs from the Sacred Nexus buildings granted by the Saintly Hierarchy perk) with no direct impact on my ability to produce unity. This does translate into some technicians, miners, and translucers becoming available to work other jobs, at a rate of ~1 free pop per 18 pops on the max ascension investment ecclesiastical center (using the approximate values of 23 energy per technician, 20 minerals per miner, and 3 crystals per translucer that I'm seeing in my current game). Which isn't nothing, but it's still only based on that one max investment planet, and the upkeep savings seem to compare unfavorably to using an Urban designation (which also doesn't seem to lose out on unity as much as you might think thanks to the trade policy the federation gives)

*On further consideration, this effect does address the building slot issue unity planets have, particularly for Psionic empires, if you don't take Arcology Project: Hypercomms Forum + Citadel of Faith + Psi Corps + Sanctum + Ministry of Culture uses up 5/11 slots just for buildings that buff unity output, leaving just 6 slots for Sacred Nexus buildings (or less, if you want a Numistic Shrine or Galactic Stock Exchange). So the effect is probably good for empires that are investing in unity, aren't taking the Arcology Project AP, and don't have a relic world they want to make into an Ecclesiastical Ecumenopolis. Why would an empire investing in unity choose not to go for ecclesiastical arcologies, though? The one specific example I can think of (besides being blocked from taking it by stuff like being Agrarian Idyll or not having the DLC) is if the empire owns Wenkwort Artem, which nets a total of +70% admin output between the planet modifiers and Gaia effects.

• In order to avoid anti-synergy with the Saintly Hierarchy perk, either it should also give +1 High Priest jobs per 150 pops from unity designations or Saintly Hierarchy should grant High Priest jobs based on the number of priests.
• The game could use more planetary modifiers or features that increased unity or admin output by more than +20%, and are removed by or prevent converting the planet to an Ecumenopolis. Being able to get a higher unity output per pop if you opt out of using arcologies to spam priests makes alternative sources of priests more attractive when building slot limits come into play.
  • +15% is good enough on Gaia worlds when combined with the +10% from the planet class.
  • Reductions in admin or specialist upkeep, either in general or specifically for consumer goods, could also work.
• This is unrelated, but I just remembered that I forgot to mention that the +5% traditionalist faction approval from being in a Holy Conclave is actually super relevant and useful. With my max investment in traditionalist approval (consecrated worlds and no robots), that +5% keeps me at the 80% approval threshold for +10% pop happiness even when I have a shroud bane.

74 pops, T5 Ascension Ecumenopolis	Ecclesiastical Center		Ecumenopolis (designation)
Designation effects 12 Priests 3 High Priests 5 Telepaths 11 Culture Workers	+28.12% Priest Administrator output -28.12% Priest Administrator upkeep +1 Priest per 8 pops (+9 w/ 74 pops, so -1.5 ecclesiastical districts)		-70.31% Structure upkeep +56% Trade Value
Energy upkeep	-114+(1.5x4.5)=-107.25 -59.4 if accounting for TV	+77.25, or -72% +93.4, or -157%	-30 +34 if accounting for TV
Rare Crystals upkeep (+0.26 from Scintillating Skin lithoids)	-3.34+(1.5x0.9)=-1.99	+1.47, or -74%	-0.52
Consumer Goods upkeep	-74 total -38.97 from priests & culture workers	-17.7, or +45%	-92 total -56.7 from priests & culture workers
Unity output	+923 +970.845 if accounting for TV	-53, or -6% -36.6, or -4%	+870 +934.255 if accounting for TV
Research output (Whisper telepaths)	+93/90/93	-8, or -9%	+85/82/84
Trade Value	95.69 (47.845 energy & unity)	+32.8, or +34%	128.51 (64.255 energy & unity)

It's entirely focused on ascension. The benefit is that you ascend a single unity world, over and over, and get constantly escalating benefits from it instead of spreading your priests around your empire where they don't benefit from ascension. To achieve the same thing by just building more temples, you'd have to ascend more planets.

 

[Northstar1989]

The new pre-made robot templates for the Mechanist origin are interesting and helpful, BUT they should be renamable.

The fact they are all called "Robot" and there is no way to rename them without applying an entirely new template (incredibly expensive)- for instance to "Mining Bot" or "Farming Bot" makes it unnecessarily difficult to keep them organized.

Normally, when I create robot templates in any playthrough, I *ALWAYS* give them names that identify the purpose of the template and help me keep them organized. The inability to rename these templates ("Modify Template" available because you already have pops with this template) creates undue organizational hardship for the player.

 

[shadow737]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but I've been finding Sol (tomb world variant) a lot in game with the Open Beta installed whether the UNE is also in the game or not.

It's supposed to only spawn if the UNE doesn't and then only if one of the other Sol systems don't spawn, but I've done six run throughs over the weekend just letting things go until I found Sol and the UNE and it keeps happening, both keep spawning though admittedly the UNE is one of the civilizations I use when working through a Beta as I am familiar with it's mechanics like I'm familiar with certain megacorps, and militarist empires.

 

[SwordOfMorning42]

Can we please have something put in to stop our federation allies from repeatedly colonising FE Holy Worlds? I've had the Spiritualists declare war on me roughly every 10-20 years because my idiot ally won't stop colonising them.

 

[kobolds ate my baby!]

This is an issue that started with the last patch. Taking the Teachers of the Shroud origin locks you out of all of the ascension path perks. Mind Over Matter as well as the genetic, synthetic, and cybernetic paths.

 

[Abdulijubjub]

This is an issue that started with the last patch. Taking the Teachers of the Shroud origin locks you out of all of the ascension path perks. Mind Over Matter as well as the genetic, synthetic, and cybernetic paths.

You effectively start with the Mind Over Matter perk, it's just not shown. You just have to research Psionic Theory and adopt the tree, but you don't have to take the perk.

 

[sxkhan1]

I've been wracking my brain for about 5 whole minutes and it looks like the consumer goods upkeep reduction that the environmentalist civic provides isn't actually applying in the 3.6 beta!

 

[Erfar]

Is there Self-Modified issue adressed in that patch? (swarming species list and not removable even with genetic assembly that makes pop managment literaly nightmare when try to play by genetic accendance as Void dwelers/Ring)
Also Is fixed issue when planet automatic stop build buildings if pops are "domestic servitude" (As game thinks those slaves are working so you not have unemployment)

 

[Shrike]

Looks very substantial and looking forward to getting into it. Thanks.

Is it normal that the ability to edit ships is greyed out in the beta?!

 

[sillyrobot]

Did I screw myself out of a precursor civilization by surveying too aggressively?

First game with the beta. Huge, but sparsely populated galaxy 2 FE neighbours and two normal empires discovered. Origin is On the Shoulders of Giants. 12 survey ships. Year 36. Running Map the Stars.

I've completed the origin dig about 3 years prior. I have zero (0) ancient civilization anomalies found. I've surveyed a wedge maybe 20-25% of the galaxy shape. This was brought to my attention when I found the frozen computer planet and wasn't given the option of "Who came before?"

 

[kobolds ate my baby!]

You effectively start with the Mind Over Matter perk, it's just not shown. You just have to research Psionic Theory and adopt the tree, but you don't have to take the perk.

You're totally right. I'm dumb. I even did it this way on an earlier playthrough but forgot how I had done it.

 

[Abdulijubjub]

I've been wracking my brain for about 5 whole minutes and it looks like the consumer goods upkeep reduction that the environmentalist civic provides isn't actually applying in the 3.6 beta!

Do you have some other effect (like Conservationist species trait) which also reduces CG upkeep? The tooltips are currently bugged to only show one of the modifiers from each category, but the total will still be correct (ex. .35 CG upkeep for your specialist, with only -10% being shown despite the base being .5 CG upkeep).

Presumably the tooltips will be fixed in the next patch, but it looks like the fix didn't make it into this one.

Is there Self-Modified issue adressed in that patch? (swarming species list and not removable even with genetic assembly that makes pop managment literaly nightmare when try to play by genetic accendance as Void dwelers/Ring)

Honestly I'd be happy if you could just resettle them after the event line finishes. The fact that they permanently refused to be relocated (even when growing on a planet that they didn't self modify for) is what makes this annoying. Otherwise, an unremovable trait is kinda... meh. It just adds more slice to the piechart and has no other effect.

 

[Erfar]

Do you have some other effect (like Conservationist species trait) which also reduces CG upkeep? The tooltips are currently bugged to only show one of the modifiers from each category, but the total will still be correct (ex. .35 CG upkeep for your specialist, with only -10% being shown despite the base being .5 CG upkeep).

Presumably the tooltips will be fixed in the next patch, but it looks like it didn't make it into this one.


Honestly I'd be happy if you could just resettle them after the event line finishes. The fact that they permanently refused to be relocated (even when growing on a planet that they didn't self modify for) is what makes this annoying. Otherwise, an unremovable trait is kinda... meh. It just adds more slice to the piechart and has no other effect.

I like to sometimes play with min-maxing my pop local traits, making miners, reserchers, priests, etc. but with thet mod it's VERY annoyng (and resetllement is part of problem) that especialy feels bad in my last game, while I play Idyllic Bloom plantoids with Budding trait and fanatic spiritualist, so I not making any king of robots and must settle 10 pops on unhabbitable planets before I could turn them to Gaia world. And Self-modified just ruin gameplan =(