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Introduced 3092, according to masterunitlist.info and others, by which time ER Mediums had long been reengineered by the IS.
SLDF Mechs
- Thread starter Lukas316
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Interesting, it's not mentioned there. Well, something to eventually mention for someone to fix there.
... hm, wonder why we never got Royal variants of the Archer or Catapult, but got a *non-Royal* variant of the Zeus... oh well.
Sarna.net is ... interesting. As far as I understand, they don't want to give all the info, either for reasons of copyright or to support the company through book-sales. Either way, there is much that isn't on sarna.net, sadly. To the best of my knowledge, what is there is accurate though.
As for royal variants or not, well, really it is a case of which succesion war designs they wanted to retroactively have advanced ancestors. The omission of the Archer is weird indeed, I mean, it was on the cover of one of the CityTech boxes... Artemis IV FCS and CASE would have been nice...
As for the advanced Zeus, canonically the houses got access to StarTech shortly before the coup, then couldn't support it over the course of the succession wars. So, we should expect advanced designs from right around that time. With the Zeus being [one of] Steiner's flagship
I only brought up that MAD variant because it didn't specify and seemed to be something the Taurians would have put together if they picked up some battlefield salvage in that lovely long little "troublesome conflict" which happened just before the Amaris Coup. Or just reverse-engineered it from defectors, since I recall that had been happening too... especially AFTER the coup.
(Also, recall hearing on unofficial channels some years back the lack of "ER Medium Laser" until ClanTech was an oversight by the developers. Was part of a small bit where someone was talking about "yeah we don't always think about everything, sometimes we just forget a detail". It's why this never really bothered me... )
Interesting to note as well, the AS7-D-HT also apparently doesn't have any clue who made it other than it turning up in the Castle Nautilus cache. (Possibly with many others of the same variant if the cutscene is to be believed.) But it's not known as a SLDF product anywhere but here. Despite the Atlas II being exclusive to Royal regiments... well, and later the Clans...
Wonder who the manufacturer "SCI" is? "StarCorps Industries"...
(Also, recall hearing on unofficial channels some years back the lack of "ER Medium Laser" until ClanTech was an oversight by the developers. Was part of a small bit where someone was talking about "yeah we don't always think about everything, sometimes we just forget a detail". It's why this never really bothered me... )
Interesting to note as well, the AS7-D-HT also apparently doesn't have any clue who made it other than it turning up in the Castle Nautilus cache. (Possibly with many others of the same variant if the cutscene is to be believed.) But it's not known as a SLDF product anywhere but here. Despite the Atlas II being exclusive to Royal regiments... well, and later the Clans...
Wonder who the manufacturer "SCI" is? "StarCorps Industries"...
So, we should completely ignore the fact that General Aleksandr Kerensky was the Commanding General of the Star League Defense Force and had just been dismissed from being the Star League regent by the Star League Council. And that the Exodus was a mass evacuation by the majority of the Star League Defense Force?
That the Dobrev and its contents are related to General Kerensky and the Exodus but not to the Star League, as the crew of the Argo would assume since ingame they have all the information I just listed?
Gotcha.
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HB's AS7-D-HT doesn't match up with TT at all.
The standard Atlas II has DHS, FF and CASE. Since HB never implemented FF and their CASE is different, they had to make a custom variant.
But giving it 78.0 usable tons?? The standard Atlas II has 64.0, with FF saving 2.0 tons compared to standard armour but needing 1.0 for CASE, so 65.0 would make some sense. If it instead had ES and XL, it would have 79.5 usable tons, but they explicitly call it AS7-D-HT, implying it's a variant of the H...
I'm confused...
At least since it's an HB unique, we shouldn't expect to find references to it anywhere else, so that goat is shaved.
What people do or do not assume has no bearing on what is and is not true. As I've already said, I see nowhere where the game claims the Bull Shark to be SL.
May hillbillies in the outback mistake it for SL? Certainly, but there are also people who attribute the pyramids to aliens.
True and stated in-game, as I demonstrated above:
* The Bull Shark was in the Dobrev
* The Dobrev was a part of the Star League Defense Force (SLDF)
* The Dobrev left with the commander of the SLDF, General Kerensky, during the Exodus
If you assume that these three facts are true and not in game, then yeah, there's nowhere where the game claims the Bull Shark to be Star League.
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So if I put a Tommygun inside a T-34 it becomes a soviet gun? You make no sense...
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Thank you for the analogy.
If you put a tommygun inside a T-34 and whomever is looking doesn't know it's an US gun, then yeah, they will think it is a soviet gun. And that's the whole premise of the Dobrev scenario: you, as anyone living in 3025, are very limited in the information that you have about the Star League, 300 years after its fall.
If you found a Timber Wolf instead of the Bull Shark in the wreckage of a Star League Defense Force JumpShip like the Dobrev, then you'd likely think it belonged to the Star League. The alternatives would be that one of the Successor States either make a quantum leap in rediscovering technology (unlikely, since this all takes place pre-discovery of Helm Core) or aliens are behind it.
Since the videogame does establish this connection to the Star League, so the tommygun does become a soviet gun on the videogame's story. The true nature of the gun is irrelevant to the story, because it can't be mentioned in the story.
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Completely and utterly irrelevant. Why should Lukas316 consider it SLDF-era just because the hillbillies do?
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Because we're told so?
Much like we're continuously told ComStar does not have secret agents or hidden stores of BattleMechs. Or told there is/was no such thing as Clan Wolverine if it gets brought up in earshot of a Clanner... or any number of pieces of information we are privy to as players but in-universe these details are not widely known... if at all.
So we get incomplete, incorrect, or competing data points to consider. That's been somewhat standard for the IP, from what I understand, from the beginning.
That's rather the pivoting point this whole discussion has been circling for a while now. What we're told in-universe... through narration and data available to us... is not congruent with what should be true. We are dealing with an Unreliable Narrator in many aspects, with regards to this universe. [Unapproved TV Tropes Wiki link removed by ComStar.]
... we also are dealing with a case where it's better to avoid putting in tags which aren't going to be used inside the game. Or you get weird stuff like ComStar/Anyone joint maneuvers which shouldn't be happening anywhere at any time, for any reason.
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You're the one who made the analogy and now you consider it irrelevant?
That just about says everything.
You and everyone else that has read the sourcebooks/novels/etc. have a bird's eye and omniscient view of the BattleTech universe and history that no character could possibly have. Or even most of the videogame players, since a lot of people were not aware of the franchise until they played the videogame.
Yet, some apparently think that this bird's eye view should be applied everywhere when dealing with the game.
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*sigh* The real analogy: Just as a tommygun does not become soviet by putting it inside a T-34, so does a clan 'Mech not become SLDF just by putting it inside an SLDF vessel.
Your misunderstanding of something that simple is what is speaking loudly...
*sigh* We think that people who have access to this bird's eye view should apply it when deciding whether a given 'Mech is SLDF-era or not.
Neither I nor you nor Lukas316 are characters inside the universe. Now, if someone was writing fan-fic or a character bio, sure, go with whatever misunderstandings make sense. But we are not characters. We do not make collections to show off in-universe, but to show off out-of-character. Thus, what goes in a collection of all SLDF-era 'Mechs depends on the information available to us, not what is available in-game.
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Yes, if the discussion is about some specific videogame related things and not about the franchise. Many people who played WoW didn't play WC1-3, should they require to do so before playing to be on the loop, to have the right of an opinion?. The devs may have changed things about the lore or give a different direction, because it is a different game. It may be a reset o a reboot. It may have non canon lore or actually establish the new game as the new official lore.
This game is not an expansion of any other Battletech game but a game on its own and it is sold as such on multiple online platforms. There is not a disclaimer on Steam or Paradox telling you better read some novels or play some older games before playing this one.
That's pretty much it. But also that's assuming perfect consistency. For example the devs might have decided that now ERMLs are SLDF and that things stated in some novels or other games are not canon anymore, or that they are but they don't apply to this specific version of the BT universe.
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"SLDF-era" is hardly specific to HB BT. Now, there is nothing wrong with starting your journey based in HB BT, but you will run into questions along the way. Some may be answered by carefull scrutiny of this particular game, others not. If one wishes full knowledge, it makes sense to branch out and seek other sources.
If they wish to discuss, say, whether Tauren being Horde rather than Alliance makes sense or not, then yes, they should read up on the lore. In the case of Warcraft I-III, that is extremely fast. In the case of Battletech ... not so much.
No, because that knowledge is not required to play the game. If, however, you want to get into discussion of lore and canon, then that would very much be assumed.
Unless otherwise noted, all canon from the original work is inherited by spin-offs. There is nothing in HB BT saying that what constitues SLDF-era 'Mechs has changed, so we should default to keeping the same set as always.
In addition to the above: If a game wishes to introduce something new and shiny, it will usually label it as a rare SLDF prototype or some such. This is not done to the Bull Shark. If the devs wanted the Bull Shark to be considered an HB-only SL 'Mech, why have they not hinted at it being so? Because in their minds, it is not SLDF, but clan, d'uh.
Remove all the extra knowledge you have and in the game your analogy does not apply, as it has been shown over and over.
Wrong, as proven over and over by the game quotes.
Prove otherwise, with game quotes, otherwise you're just repeating your wrongly claim to exhaustion.
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Why do you persist with that in-game nonsense? We do not exist within the game.
Then show me a quote that says the Bull Shark is from the Star League. If it supposed to be, why is it not called so? Yang's description of the MAZ explicitly says "It's... otherworldly, but clearly influenced by Star League 'tech.". I.e. "influenced by SL tech", not "made by the SL".
Actually, that proves it _isn't_ SL; otherwise he would have said "... but clearly Star League tech." or some such.
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I do think that the original question has been answered to @Lukas316 ‘s satisfaction.
As for the details on what is or is not SLDF, perhaps that conversation could be continued in private as it seems to have become a stalemate.
As for the details on what is or is not SLDF, perhaps that conversation could be continued in private as it seems to have become a stalemate.
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You apparently don't know what are 'internal story and consistency', 'unreliable narrator' and other narrative concepts used ingame.
That explains a lot.
I already did two times, if you didn't read them, that's your problem.
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