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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #34 - Canals & Monuments

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Good evening and welcome to this week’s Victoria 3 development diary! Today’s topic is Canals & Monuments, unique buildings with special inputs, outputs, and effects.

The Vatican City is the seat of the Catholic Church and a great asset to the Papal States in Victoria 3. As Europe developed and industrialized, the power of religious authority in national politics declined steeply but never lost its relevance. Can you change the course of history and renew the temporal power of the Pope?
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Monuments are unique buildings only available in specific states, each with its own 3D model on the map. They make use of some of the more interesting aspects of the production methods system; just as buildings can output Goods, they can also output both national and local modifiers, Capacities, and effects on the pops working there. The Vatican City for instance outputs the Influence capacity as well as greatly increasing the political strength of the Devout Interest Group. Meanwhile the White House adds a multiplier to your national Bureaucracy output as well as increasing the amount of political strength Pops gain from votes. Not all Monuments are present at the start date. Some, like the Eiffel Tower, must be constructed, and Monuments are significantly more costly and time-consuming to construct than standard buildings. Monuments are subsidized by government funding, so if you decide that a Monument is unaffordable or that you aren’t interested in its effects (for instance if you as communist Italy no longer want to Church to wield so much power) you can simply defund them. On release we intend to have eleven different Monuments in total.

The Panama Canal links the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. Finally completed in 1914 after decades of planning and construction, ships no longer had to take the long and treacherous route around South America to travel between the East and West. Yes, we can see the trees and houses in the Canal - we’ll fix it!
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Like Monuments, Canals are unique buildings with a special set of inputs and outputs. But the true allure of constructing a Canal is that it allows you to create new connections between sea nodes, allowing ships to travel through the isthmuses of Panama and Suez. This significantly reduces the Convoy costs for trading and supplying armies across vast ocean distances, as well as your vulnerability to unscrupulous rivals trying to disrupt your supply lines.

We use the Journal Entry system to track the progress of your canal survey. Behind the scenes a variable is increased every month until the goal is reached, which triggers the completion event. The Journal Entry also acts as a reminder that you are spending a lot of Bureaucracy on this project, and that it will eventually be made available again once the survey is complete.
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Constructing a Canal is far from trivial. Before any work can begin, an extensive survey of the region needs to be conducted, costing a hefty chunk of Bureaucracy for the surveyor for around 3 years. Either the owner of the state or a Great Power with an Interest in the region can conduct a survey. Any number of countries can potentially conduct their own surveys and compete to build the Canal themselves.

We’ve made the conscious decision to avoid starting wars or Diplomatic Plays through scripted content wherever possible, instead offering incentives for the player to start their own Plays and encouraging the AI to pursue Journal Entry goals. In this case, the player has the option to either gain a Claim on Sinai or to improve relations with the owner country, helping you along your chosen path but not locking you into a particular course of action.
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Once you’ve completed your survey, the path diverges depending on whether you own the appropriate land. If you already own either a Treaty Port or the whole state region you can simply begin constructing the canal, but if not you’ll need to find a way to acquire it, either through monetary or coercive means. A Decision becomes available allowing you to purchase a Treaty Port in the appropriate State Region in exchange for a series of very large weekly payments, assuming you can convince the local rulers to part with the port. You might however decide that you’d rather keep your money and start a Diplomatic Play for a Treaty Port or the entire State Region (the former will cost you a lot less Infamy), which might lead either to a peaceful concession to your demands or to war.

And that’s all for today! Next week I’ll be handing you over to one of our Content Designers to talk about Expeditions and Decisions.
 
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Monuments are a fun feature to look at, but I don't want to have to take and rule only the Provinces where monuments exist in order to build a strong and rich nation.
To be honest, I don't like the idea of a single building having a huge impact on a nation's capabilities and strategy, as in EU4.
 
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@neondt @lachek

Will it be possible to take tolls for passing the canals? (same question goes for natural straits, by the way, like the historical Sound Dues)
For instance, if some other country is using this sea node connection with their convoys, is it possible to force them to pay for this?

And a related question, is it possible to deny some country the passage through a canal (or strait) entirely?
 
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Monuments work exactly the same way other buildings do, including employing Pops to produce their effects. They just happen to be unique.
The problem is with the national-scale effects, which don't seem to have any connection to the pops working at the building as far as I can tell. There doesn't seem to be any reason why owning and maintaining the building would cause the effect that it has. Why would the Ottoman Empire conquering Rome make the government more inclined to listen to the Devout IG? Why would the White House burning down make the entire federal bureaucracy permanently become significantly less efficient, or change how political power is distributed in the country? That's the sort of thing I was referring to as "magical effects". Victoria 3 is supposed to be about simulating society, and these sort of causeless changes strike me as being incompatible with that goal.
 
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Monuments work exactly the same way other buildings do, including employing Pops to produce their effects. They just happen to be unique. But just like other buildings, you can of course mod them (including out) to your heart's content.
But at the end of the day this is still a location specific buff that turns on and off like a switch. No other country with a governing palace can get this but the US does because the president has a house? When it's destroyed the US is just worse at giving pops power via voting forever and its bureaucracy is wrecked until it rebuilds it?

Now I personally don't hate the EU4 wonder system and won't necessarily hate if this is final either, but with what we've seen so far this doesn't seem to square with the way things have been presented to us.
 
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Meh. It'd be good to be able to design monuments, especially since national pride was really a thing back then and most leading nations have built national wonders. What's the release date btw?
 
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Instead of the White House, it would have been more appropriate to bring Congress into play. Effect: 300% to delay the introduction of a new law. ;)
Yeah, it's also rather farcical that the White House buffs bureaucracy when the US federal government was almost comically underdeveloped until the New Deal (with the exception of the civil war period).
 
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Good evening,great dd,however, i have a question:
How moddable monuments,their production methods,effects,modifiers and so on will be?
Thanks for any replies about this.
Exactly as moddable as any other building, which is extremely moddable!
 
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So we can ONLY build canals in historically accurate locations?
What if I as Germany or Austria wanted to build a canal from the Danube to the Mediterranean? Extremely difficult if not impossible, but I should be able to at least try..
 
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It seems illogical that the Papal States have a larger devout interest group because of a building, and not because of the nature of their government. And does it really make sense for a unified Italy to be funding the Pope? The Vatican still had a fair amount of influence on the people of Italy and Catholics worldwide even when Italy wanted nothing to do with it.

It also seems a bit strange that pops have stronger voting power because of the White House. Pressumably this implies the lowest point of American democracy was during the war of 1812 when it was burnt down. And any president's first priority if they wanted to disenfranchise the people should be to move out of the White House. Since obviously, the people of America have higher political involvement because they're so inspired by a building.

I was hoping monuments would have a bit more logic to them. I've never been the biggest fan of monuments in EUIV, and they feel even more out of place in Victoria 3 with modifiers like this. I would much prefer if monuments gave very specific local effects, like immigration attraction for New York with the Statue of Liberty or life rating/prestige for the Eiffel Tower, instead of global and illogical modifiers like this.
 
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Is it possible to close them for ships of country you are at war with? Or your worst rival will have same benefits as for me, who spent those huge efforts to build it?

I think this dev diary unfortunately fails to answer most basic question: do investing this huge effort in building canal actually pays off? Why not just wait for someone else to build it?
 
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Are there monuments that are available to any country, or are they all historical and pre-scripted to only be built by a few select countries?
Probably historical and pre-scripted.

Monuments for 'insert popular country' will most likely be added through content packs/DLCs.

PS. That Panama Canal really hurts my eyes. I wish you would have put atleast some work into making the two major 'deep sea' canals in the world look somewhat real.
 
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I would say, this is not what I want. I don't want a monument with such arbitrary bonuses that devs have promised to avoid. You just control the White House, and the people's votes in your country make more political strength? That doesn't make sense and will ruin the historical immersion, at least for me. I hope a custom rule that can turn on/off these arbitrary bonuses.
This is CK3 all over again. Why even care about holdings without special buildings?
 
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I'm assuming Monuments will be moddable and easy to add in, and we're likely going to get many new ones through patches and DLC later on

My question is though, will we be able to have two monuments in the same state? Or the same province? As in, having both the Louvre and Versailles in Ille de France, while having botz Louvre and Eiffel Tower in Paris itself. Or both Hagia Sofia and the Topkapi Palace in Istanbul
 
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For the purposes of modding: is it possible to have a monument in one country which is built, controlled by and has its upkeep paid by a different country?

For example: I, the mod designer, create a monument called "Underground Catholic church." This is a monument that can be built in communist Italy by a journal decision taken by other Catholic powers, keeping the Devout interest group in Italy powerful despite the wishes of the dastardly Reds.
 
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The problem is with the national-scale effects, which don't seem to have any connection to the pops working at the building as far as I can tell. There doesn't seem to be any reason why owning and maintaining the building would cause the effect that it has. Why would the Ottoman Empire conquering Rome make the government more inclined to listen to the Devout IG? Why would the White House burning down make the entire federal bureaucracy permanently become significantly less efficient, or change how political power is distributed in the country? That's the sort of thing I was referring to as "magical effects". Victoria 3 is supposed to be about simulating society, and these sort of causeless changes strike me as being incompatible with that goal.
Great point! You're right that some of the current effects of monument-type buildings are perhaps unsuitable for the game's theme. As usual the exact numbers are WIP and we definitely appreciate the feedback. I hear you on the White House's national Bureaucracy multiplier for example - will rework this into a larger bonus to local Government Administration buildings instead.

On the other hand, some monument buildings ought to have national effects, as symbols of the nation's accomplishments or identity - the Eiffel Tower or the Hagia Sophia are good examples of these. And if the Ottoman Empire conquers Rome and don't want their Devout IG to gain additional political strength from having taken control of the Vatican, they (or anyone who controls it) can certainly burn it to the ground. It is just a building, and follow all the normal building rules. Monuments don't have any special powers to affect the country in non-immersive, "magical" seeming ways - if they do, we may have made a mistake, and mistakes can be easily fixed. :)
 
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