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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #26 - Peace Deals


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Hello and welcome back to another Victoria 3 development diary! Last week we wrapped up our dev diaries on War, and now we’ll be bringing both Diplomacy and War to a close (for the being, that is) by talking about (appropriately enough) how to negotiate an end to one of your wars. We’re of course not done talking about warfare and will return to the topic at a later point, but for now, let’s talk peace.

So, let’s say you launched that diplomatic play to get the Dutch colony you’ve been eyeing for years thinking that you’d have it in the bag, all the way up until the French decided to back them up and you found yourself dragged into a bloody and costly conflict that you now want nothing more than to get out of. What do you do?

There’s actually two different ways of making peace in Victoria 3: Capitulating and Negotiating Peace. However, before we explain how these work, we first need to explain a crucial mechanic to all forms of peace-making: War Support.

War Support is a measure of the political will in your country to continue fighting in a particular war, and goes from -100 to +100. Each country will start a war with a high degree of War Support (currently always 100, though we’re considering having it start on different levels based on how politically unified your country is), which declines over time. The factors that govern how quickly War Support drops include:
  • Having your territory occupied by the enemy
  • Pops dying and being wounded in battle and from attrition
  • Internal turmoil in your country, for example because your economy is worsening due to the war
  • Whether the enemy controls their War Goals

Siam is in a bad way in this war, losing more than 11 War Support every single week. Unless they can turn things around quickly, capitulation isn’t far away. As with the previous war dev diaries, please note that any numbers/interfaces/tooltips shown are very much not final!
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When their War Support hits -100, a country is forced to Capitulate. A country that Capitulates cedes all War Goals that are targeting them and gives up on all unpressed War Goals they were still holding. It’s also possible for most countries part of a war to choose to Capitulate at any time, even right after the war has broken out. This will immediately let them exit the war at the same cost outlined above, but may also incur a diplomatic penalty if the country capitulates early, especially if they had nothing to lose by doing so (as it would be seen as a cowardly betrayal of your allies). War Leaders are also able to Capitulate, and this doesn’t usually end the war, as they are only conceding War Goals targeting themselves and their subjects, and a new War Leader will be chosen to continue the fight on their side of the struggle. The only circumstance under which a Capitulation will end a War is if there are no War Goals left to fight over, which always results in an immediate end to hostilities.

However, it isn’t possible to simply attack a far-away country and force them to cede you distant lands simply by waiting for their War Support to tick down by itself. This is because any country that has a war goal targeting it which isn’t considered to be controlled by the enemy and still retains control of its own capital cannot have its War Support drop below 0. For example, let’s say that while playing as Brazil, you attack the Netherlands and demand they cede both Curacao and Guyana. You easily occupy Guyana but find that your navy is outmatched and you can’t land armies to take either Curacao or Amsterdam. As a result, you will be unable to force the Netherlands to Capitulate unless you actively choose to drop your War Goal on Curacao.

It’s possible to capitulate at any time during a war, even when it’s just started and War Support is at maximum - that it’s possible definitely doesn’t mean it’s a good idea, though!
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So what then, of negotiated peace? This is quite a bit more complex than Capitulation, and can involve a whole host of countries that are part of the war. When making peace, countries involved in a war are split into three different categories:

War Leaders: This is the main participant on each side. War Leaders can propose peace deals and must ratify any proposed peace from the other War Leader in order for it to take effect.
Negotiators: This is any country that either holds a War Goal or has a War Goal targeting them and who are not one of the War Leaders. Negotiators must ratify any proposed peace deal from both the enemy and their own side in order for it to take effect.
Non-Negotiators: This is any country that doesn’t fall into the above two categories. They don’t play any active role in peace negotiations. Subjects whose Overlord is part of the war are also considered Non-Negotiators, as their Overlord negotiates on their behalf.

For a negotiated peace to happen, the War Leader on either side must first construct and propose a peace deal out of pressed War Goals. Unlike in many of our other Grand Strategy Games, peace deals in Victoria 3 isn’t necessarily just one side making demands - the War Leader can propose a mixed peace deal, in which War Goals are ceded from both sides. Once the War Leader is satisfied with the deal they’re proposing, they then send it out to both sides of the war for ratification.

This rebellion against Britain has turned into something of a brush war between the European Great Powers, with limited fighting in the colonies between Britain and its enemy France. War Support remains high, but if things take a bloodier turn both sides may find their populations quickly growing weary of the fighting.
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That’s right - in order to have your proposed peace deal take effect, you need not just the enemy War Leader or even the enemy War Leader and Negotiators agree to it - all Negotiators on your own side must agree as well. This means that while you can try to cut a deal with your Dutch enemy to give you everything you want from them in exchange for selling out your ally Prussia, the likely answer to that from Prussia is going to be a firm and resounding ‘No’, at least so long as they aren’t truly desperate for a peace. However, if you’re willing to be fair about the whole thing and give up something of your own as well, they’re going to be more receptive to your proposals.

War Support plays a key role in determining what kind of peace deals the AI will agree to, with both their own and the enemy’s War Support factoring in: Even if their war support has dropped into the negative, the AI isn’t going to agree to a long list of demands from a country that is themselves a few weeks away from capitulating.

That’s all for today! Now that we’ve talked about Economy, Politics, Diplomacy and War, join us again next week as we cover a topic that touches on all of them - Technology!
 
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What pressure does falling war support put on a player to accept a limited peace? 100 forces capitulation, but does any other number matter? If you manage to defend your wargoals perhaps you can floor support at 0, what prevents a player from staying in indefinitely in this situation?

Also, does retaking a wargoal against you reset your war support to 0 (if it had been negative) or simply stop it from falling further?
 
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Is capitulation the only way a minor participant can exit the war? No room for a separate peace? I think it should be possible to white peace some minor participants at some point, if, say, they are completely irrelevant, on the other side of the globe
 
Will Peace Deals have an affect on Domestic Politics too? For example, if you lose territory, it could end up destabilizing the country, or pops joining Revanchist movements? Or on the other hand, annexation of land upsetting pops who are against territorial expansion, or satisfying jingoistic, imperialist pops? Can the game simulate internal pressures like what happened in the Mexican Cession, in which Whigs protested against the land grab, and some, in accordance with Manifest Destiny, advocated for full annexation of Mexico?
Right now no, but this something I am actively looking into as we always want to strengthen the ties between our politics system and other mechanics.
 
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To answer several questions on the topic, there are currently no plans to allow for the adding of War Goals after the war starts, as doing so opens up for a lot of ways to circumvent the Diplomatic Play phase (go in with light demands to get support in the Play and then start demanding outrageous things once the war starts). If we do add such a mechanic, it would have to allow the various actors in the war to reconsider their stance, open up for intervention and so on which are all neat ideas but a complex addition that would need a substantial design and iteration pass.
How much can we demand in peace deal, is it somehow limited? Would it be possible in late game to dismantle for example russian empire, like in treaty of Brest Litovsk?
 
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Is capitulation the only way a minor participant can exit the war? No room for a separate peace? I think it should be possible to white peace some minor participants at some point, if, say, they are completely irrelevant, on the other side of the globe
Yes, though bear in mind that if there's no demands on the country in question, Capitulation is effectively white peace.
 
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So am I right in assuming this means there is no longer such a thing as a separate peace? What is to now prevent a small country from basically tacking itself onto a squabble with between large countries, and then having outrageous demands that they won't let go of until the larger country does all the fighting for them? Is the larger country's only recourse to basically give in to their enemy's demands, even if they are winning? Shouldn't they be able to basically say, "no, Krakow does not get to annex Germany, and I am going to take this smaller state and leave the war."?
 
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Numerous 19th century conflicts ended with territorial concessions in exchange for a bag of cash… It isn’t explicitly stated, but I’m guessing it would be possible to make a war end faster by offering, for example, Mexico a bunch of cash if they will cede California in a peace deal?
 
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So am I right in assuming this means there is no longer such a thing as a separate peace? What is to now prevent a small country from basically tacking itself onto a squabble with between large countries, and then having outrageous demands that they won't let go of until the larger country does all the fighting for them? Is the larger country's only recourse to basically give in to their enemy's demands, even if they are winning? Shouldn't they be able to basically say, "no, Krakow does not get to annex Germany, and I am going to take this smaller state and leave the war."?
The smaller country can't simply add demands that the War Leader didn't agree to, and if they are the War Leader then their allies will need to have backed up their claims during the Diplomatic Play. Things like this is the reason that we're currently not allowing the addition of War Goals after the Play is over.
 
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Numerous 19th century conflicts ended with territorial concessions in exchange for a bag of cash… It isn’t explicitly stated, but I’m guessing it would be possible to make a war end faster by offering, for example, Mexico a bunch of cash if they will cede California in a peace deal?
War Reparations is the way that money changes hands during peace deals currently, I do think the idea of being able to negotiate monetary settlements in addition to the current War Goals is interesting but nothing we're committing to at this point.
 
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What are pressed or unpressed war goals?
A Pressed War Goal is one that's being demanded in the current peace offer and will be ceded if said peace offer is agreed to.

EDIT: I just realized that I said 'unpressed' at one point in the DD when I meant 'unceded' (talking about capitulation). Pressed = being demanded, ceded = has been enforced/executed.
 
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This is beaitiful! Ratifying peace by other countries is the best peace negotiations idea ever!
Just a small question - how much can we demand? How is it limited? Can i puppet a huge country like Egypt or Persia in a single war? How many wargoals can we add?
I believe that you are limited to the Demands that you make at the beginning of the war. Those Demands are in turn restricted by how you spend your Maneuvers, a currency that represents diplomatic capital. Maneuvers increase with Rank and are also used to sway potential allies, so the amount available to make your own demands will vary.
 
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Amazing dev diary, really improves on a lot of weak points from previous Paradox games. One question: in peace deals it's possible to negotiate to 'trade' war goals, while in the diplomatic plays dev diary it appeared to be all or nothing, with no compromise possible. Are there other ways to to diplomatically trade territory?
 
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Does the capitulation of an ally affect a country's war support or willingness to agree to peace? I have concerns that capitulation will make countries less willing to accept peace deals due to a lower total occupation or something like that, when it seems like in reality they should be feeling increasingly isolated and thus more willing to accept peace.
 
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In one of the examples listed, Brazil wanting to take a dutch colony in South America but unable to reach NL proper... what would actually happen in the long run? What happens in these cases where the attacker has its wargoal, the local state, but then afterwards its essentially a stalemate but the attacker basically has everything they want? In some Paradox games the attacker would be forced to march up to amsterdam to ever get their wargoal, while in other paradox games simply taking and holding the wargoal for long enough would work. How would this situation shake out in V3?
 
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I kno
I believe that you are limited to the Demands that you make at the beginning of the war. Those Demands are in turn restricted by how you spend your Maneuvers, a currency that represents diplomatic capital. Maneuvers increase with Rank and are also used to sway potential allies, so the amount available to make your own demands will vary.
W this much, I guess my question really is how many demands can we add in diplomatic play? Is it restricted by something else than sense of humanity and decency? :D
 
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