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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #21 - Diplomatic Plays

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It’s Thursday again and you know what that means - another Diplomacy dev diary! Today’s dev diary is one I’ve been looking forward to writing for some time, as it covers Diplomatic Plays, which we consider to be more or less the signature feature for Diplomacy in Victoria 3.

So what are Diplomatic Plays? Well, to answer that question, I’m going to reach all the way back to Dev Diary #0 and one of the four game design pillars, namely Diplomatic Eminence. That pillar reads as follows: War is a continuation of diplomacy, and everything that is achievable by war should also be achievable through diplomacy (even if that diplomacy sometimes comes at the point of a gun).

Well, diplomacy at the point of a gun is exactly what Diplomatic Plays are, as they allow you to try to achieve any objective normally achievable by war by diplomatically maneuvering to force the other side to give it to you without a fight. To fully explain what I mean by that, we’ll go over the mechanics of Diplomatic Plays in sequence - how they start, how they play out, and finally how they are resolved.

The way Diplomatic Plays start is the way you would normally start a war in another Paradox Grand Strategy Game - by demanding something from another country, for example that they cede a particular state to you. In fact, unlike other GSGs, Victoria 3 has no ‘declare war’ button to get what you demand - instead you start a Diplomatic Play, and wars are always preceded by Diplomatic Plays.

The fourteen opening moves currently available as Diplomatic Plays, each corresponding with a war goal. As usual, the number in green indicates the number of possible valid targets that exist for that Play.
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Once a Diplomatic Play is started, there’s a number of things that happen immediately. First, the country that is being targeted is of course notified, along with any countries that are considered Potential Participants in the play. Who is considered a potential participant depends on the exact nature of the play, but usually it includes any country with an Interest in the Strategic Region where the Play is taking place as well as countries that have a strong diplomatic reason to get involved (such as allies or the overlord of the defender). At this point it’s important to note that only the Initiator (the country starting the play) and Target (the country targeted) are active participants, all others just have the potential to take part.

Next, the primary active participants on each side (the Initiator and the Target initially, though this can change if the overlord of either side steps into the play) are given a number of Maneuvers. This is a currency that primarily depends on Rank, with higher Rank countries having more maneuvers, and determines how many actions such as Swaying and adding Demands (more on these below) that said primary participant can take during the course of the play to try and gain the advantage over their enemy.

There are three distinct phases over which a Diplomatic Play plays, based on the level of Escalation, which is a value that increases each day after the play is started. The first of these is Opening Moves, during which participating countries take stock of the situation, set their initial stances (more on that below) and the Target has time to set their Main Demand (the Main Demand of the Initiator has already been set, as it depends on what type of Play was started). During the Opening Moves phase, it isn’t possible for other countries to fully commit to one side or another, with the sole exception of overlords of the primary participants. It also isn’t possible for either side to back down.

Cape Colony’s bid for independence and open British markets turned out to be a step too far. Britain demands nothing less than total annexation of the colonial upstarts, whose only hope now is either suffering partial annexation for its insolence, or having to get in real close with France and hope for the best.
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Once Escalation reaches a certain point, the Opening Moves phase ends and the Diplomatic Maneuvering phase starts. If by this point the Target has not set their Main Demand, they are automatically given one (usually War Reparations). This is the ‘main’ phase of the Diplomatic Play, which occupies the majority of the escalation scale and during which most of the ‘action’ takes place.

During this phase, potential participants can now set any stance towards each side, from full support without requiring anything in return (something most AIs won’t be keen to do as they’re not big on having their troops die for charity, at least not in an offensive war), to leaning towards a particular side (which will signal to that side that they’re likely willing to be swayed), to simply being on the fence with no particular preference for either side. It’s also possible for countries that have not committed to one side or the other to simply Declare Neutrality and exit the play altogether, though this might have diplomatic consequences depending on the circumstances.

With only a fraction of the military strength of Great Qing, Kokand’s future independence looks highly questionable. But this Play still has the potential to become pretty complex if Kokand can convince the Sikh and Russian empires to support their case against Qing. Perhaps gaining another subject is not worth the risk of a protracted war that might well cost upwards of half a million lives.
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The Diplomatic Maneuvering phase is also when the primary participants are expected to use up their available Maneuvers on adding Demands and Swaying potential participants to their side. It is also possible to spend your Maneuvers during the Opening Moves phase on adding Demands for yourself, burning through most of them early might leave you at a significant disadvantage late.

Demands are essentially Wargoals (and will turn into such if the Play escalates into war, but more on that later) and includes a wide variety of requests-under-duress such as ceding land, giving up claims or becoming a subject. Only the primary participants can add Demands, but in addition to demanding things on their own behalf they can also demand things on behalf of other countries backing them, if said country agrees that the Demand is something they want.

While this may make it sound like it’s a good idea to spend your maneuvers piling on as many Demands for yourself as possible, there’s a couple reasons not to. First, adding certain aggressive Demands (such as demanding land) always results in a Diplomatic Incident, which will immediately give you Infamy and may degrade relations with countries you need to support you in the Play. Second, being seen as greedy and unreasonable in your Demands will in itself make it harder to get countries to back you up, and may in fact make it so undecided participants side against you just to put a stop to your mad dreams of conquest. It’s worth noting though, that the Infamy from any Demands or Wargoals that end up not being pressed (for any reason) is partially or fully refunded, though their negative impact on relations remain.

Swaying, on the other hand, is the main way in which the primary participants get undecided participants over to their side, by making them a promise. This promise may be in the form of owing them an Obligation (more on this in a later dev diary) or promising them a Wargoal if the Play escalates into war. There’s a few more such types of promises planned for release (promising to become their Protectorate or giving them a piece of land or a subject of yours, for example) but these are not yet implemented. If the country agrees, they will be set as backing the Swaying side in the Diplomatic Play, and will fight on their side if war breaks out, just as if they voluntarily set their stance to backing that side.

Offering Prussia the Austrian states of West Galicia, Moravia, or Bohemia would be most appreciated, as they are populous border states. States which do not already border Prussian land are less attractive to them as they would be much harder to manage.
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However, if you think the Play is over just because France threw their weight behind the Initiator and there isn’t anyone strong enough to oppose them, you’d be wrong! It’s possible for countries that have promised to back a side to betray that promise and go back to being undecided, or even switch sides entirely, perhaps because the other side made an even juicier offer. Doing this of course makes them lose out on anything that was promised to them and negatively impacts on relations with the betrayed side, but otherwise there is no limit to how many times a single country can switch sides in a Diplomatic Play (the AI will be rather reluctant to offer something to a country that has already forsaken them once unless they desperately need their support, though).

This also means that trying to ‘play it smart’ by burning through your maneuvers immediately to sway all the countries you think you need early in the Play can backfire, as the other side is then free to try and ‘bid over’ on your supporters while you’re unable to do anything. Furthermore, it can also make it risky to not be upfront about your own territorial demands - doing the swaying first and then saying ‘oh, and by the way, I want London’ might result in your side of the Play looking very empty all of a sudden as your former supporters scramble to distance themselves from you. Swaying and adding Demands during Diplomatic Maneuvering will also both pause Escalation for some time when carried out, to make it possible for the other side to react even if those actions are taken right at the end of the phase.

[Bolivia will remember this]
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The final phase of the Diplomatic Play is Countdown to War, which is exactly what it says on the tin. During Countdown to War, both sides are locked down and it’s no longer possible for countries to declare or abandon support for either side, nor is it possible to add new Demands or do any Swaying. In fact, the only thing that is possible during this phase is Backing Down, and this is usually the phase when you will see one of the sides give in (though it is also possible to back down during Diplomatic Maneuvering).

Backing Down is, quite simply, one side deciding that the odds aren’t looking in their favor and deciding to concede the Main Demand of the other side to cut their losses. It’s important to note that only the Main Demand is ever conceded in this way, so any additional Demands that are either added or promised to supporters of the winning side are simply lost (with accrued Infamy fully refunded), along with of course all the Demands on the losing side. This means that there is actually in some cases a reason to want the Play to escalate into war (and hence, to not stack the odds in such a way that the other side sees no path to victory), as it is the only way in which you can simultaneously press multiple Demands/Wargoals, assuming you’re willing (or at least think you’re willing) to bear the heavy cost of the war. It’s possible to back down all the way up until the Escalation meter hits 100, at which point the Diplomatic Play is over and War breaks out.

Once all the cards are on the table you have to carefully weigh if this is really something you’re able to win, and what cost you’re willing to pay for the opportunity to try. Perhaps it’s better to cut your losses, gain a Truce, let the other side accrue some Infamy, score a Claim on the lost territory (if the Play was about land), and start making a plan to recover what you lost - and then some.
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Whew, that was a lot of text, and I’m sure I’ve still missed some detail or another. As those of you who are familiar with Victoria 2 has noticed, Diplomatic Plays draws a lot of inspiration from the Crisis feature in Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness, a feature I’ve personally worked on and always thought was one of the most interesting things we’ve done in any expansion for a Paradox GSG. But with that said, our dev diaries on Diplomacy are drawing to a close (for now, we’ll certainly return to the subject later) as next week we’re going to talk about something you’ve been (rightfully) curious about since the announcement… War!
 
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Is there any reason not to use your first diplomatic play to say annex a country and then use your manuovers to influence other nations to your side Instead of just expanding your goal during a play

Example I as the ottoman would like to use the annex play on Egypt then once the play has started use my manurvers to influence the British Austrians and Prussia
All Demands, including the initial one the Play is based on, creates Incidents of relative proportion which will make secondary countries more prone to align against you. Whether you want to come out strong with your initial Demand and then try to sway countries to your side, or be more cautious initially and see how far you can push it without upsetting too many people, is up to you - there are valid strategic reasons for both approaches.

One thing to consider though is that the Primary Demand will be the one conceded if the target backs down, and must also be included in any peace deal you're offering (other than complete capitulation, of course). So starting a Play for something fairly mild makes it moderately easier to get out of a war later on, but also yield less payoff if they give it to you without a fight.
 
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Darn, no demands to change government types? So if I were playing as the USA, I couldn't force the Emperor of Mexico to step down?
 
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Maybe I haven't seen it, but will other nations always intervene when I start a diplomatic play?
Me, mighty Württemberg (Ulm) again, wants to annex Baden. They are quiet open to the idea and would say yes. Could France try to object to this unification?
 
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"Status Quo" is basically when the target demands nothing but War Reparations and the Initiator backs down. Being conservative with your counter-demands like that is a good way to attract support of secondary countries in the Play and thereby increase the chance the Initiator backs down.

It's also possible for a resulting war to have a White Peace outcome.
A somewhat related question:
Will the amount of reparations paid by a nation stay the same no matter who demands them?

Two situation to better explain my question:
1) I am a small country threatened by one of the big guys (country X), but then I get support of other big guys while demanding only reparations.
2) I am a big countty in play against that same country X.

Will the amount of reparations stay the same in both cases? Because what would seem an enourmous amount of money for a small nation would be a tiny percentage of a budget of a great power.
 
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Can you use diplomatic plays to force countries to abandon their agreements with other countries? Or the opposite - force them into certain agreements with other countries (not you)? For an example (purely hypothetical): can Russia force the US into non-aggression pact with Cuba in exchange of US demanding Cuba to break the military access with Russia?
 
A somewhat related question:
Will the amount of reparations paid by a nation stay the same no matter who demands them?

Two situation to better explain my question:
1) I am a small country threatened by one of the big guys (country X), but then I get support of other big guys while demanding only reparations.
2) I am a big countty in play against that same country X.

Will the amount of reparations stay the same in both cases? Because what would seem an enourmous amount of money for a small nation would be a tiny percentage of a budget of a great power.
The exact amount of money changing hands that results from enforcing War Reparations is variable, for the reasons you mention.
 
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Maybe I haven't seen it, but will other nations always intervene when I start a diplomatic play?
Me, mighty Württemberg (Ulm) again, wants to annex Baden. They are quiet open to the idea and would say yes. Could France try to object to this unification?
If they have an Interest in the region, absolutely! And once Baden sees France supports their independence they may change their mind about conceding to mighty Württemberg's demands. Though they're still permitted to just back down even if France supports their side, of course - France has no say in that.
 
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Darn, no demands to change government types? So if I were playing as the USA, I couldn't force the Emperor of Mexico to step down?
Government type is a function of Laws, and both 'Ban Slavery' and 'Open Market' are examples of Plays which enforce a Law on someone else, so an 'Abolish Monarchy' Play would work the same way. We don't have immediate plans to expand the repertoire of Laws you can enforce on other countries beyond the two we have now but it's definitely on the roadmap. Another hypothetical "Enforce Communism" Play suggested in this thread would work the same way.
 
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This depends on the type of subject they are! More independent types of subjects, like Dominions or Protectorates, can start Plays of their own, though of course their overlord is not obligated to jump to their aid in these at all. If you want to ensure your subjects don't make any moves on their own to endanger them you need to turn them into less independent types, like Territories or Puppets.
so puppets and territories can't make independence plays against their overlords?
 
This is quite easily the sexiest thing I've ever seen on these forums hands-down.

I'm nervous about the limited number of "maneuvers." I would like to see something where the current good relations and alliances held by the initiator/defender, as well as maybe the army and navy scores, factor towards the total maneuvers. That way a highly militaristic state might have just as many options as a nation with many friendly diplomatic ties and relations. I mean, these are the basic tools that expand a nation's options during diplomacy in general, and might give more diversity to the playstyle instead of everyone getting bullied by Great Britain and Prussia for 100 years.

If you're asking for bonuses for diplomacy - isn't that covered by the original "leaning" of the countries involved and probably by the ease of swaying countries to your cause during negotiations.

Say a large evil empire starts a play against McNiceVille. The evil empire gets a load of infamy for a cruel opening bid, you only ask for reparations. Everybody watching thus leans your way. You play a manoeuvre and call in an obligation you previously negotiated with you neighbours. The Evil Empire tries a manoeuvre to get an observer on their side but they have to give a huge bribe (say a portion of 'their' conquest) so they end up cancelling as the cost is too great. You then play whatever manoeuvres you have left to sway the undecided but you only have to give out a small amount of money or maybe an obligation to get the backing you need. The evil empire sees that it is facing a coalition and thus backs down - paying you the reparations you asked for.

The downside of playing diplomatic is you can't be certain that your friends will honour their obligations, or that you will be able to sway enough friends to make the evil empire back down.
 
If they have an Interest in the region, absolutely! And once Baden sees France supports their independence they may change their mind about conceding to mighty Württemberg's demands. Though they're still permitted to just back down even if France supports their side, of course - France has no say in that.
Interesting. Thank you. So France might and try to persuade Baden to grow a spine, back out of a comittment, abandon their brothers in Ulm, pick your propaganda point, but if Baden is still willing to go with Württemberg, France can't declare war upon Württemberg if Baden says yes?
So a peaceful unifcation can't be prevented by outside Powers
 
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Has Target country any possibility to change Initiator's main demand/war goal?
Respective is there any possibility to bargain?
For example, Initiator wants "Treaty Port" but Target country instead offers some money - Initiator can take this money instead of original demand and stop the diplomatic play.
 
Interesting. Thank you. So France might and try to persuade Baden to grow a spine, back out of a comittment, abandon their brothers in Ulm, pick your propaganda point, but if Baden is still willing to go with Württemberg, France can't declare war upon Württemberg if Baden says yes?
So a peaceful unifcation can't be prevented by outside Powers

It's not like they couldn't do anything about it, if France is really that upset about the unification they could start their own diplomatic play against Württemberg with "Cut down to size", if Württemberg is infamous enough, forcing them to release all states they aquired in the last 20 years.
And the devs also said that a liberate country diplomatic play could be added before release, so it's also a possibility.
 
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@Wizzington Since you are using chess terms and analogies for this part of the game, I suggest you to implement "Force en passant" as a diplomatic play. If the crisis escalate and the target refuses to en passant, he should be punished with bricks on his... capital!

Bricks factory should be implemented. Indeed "force en passant" diplomatic play should be activated only if the starter has enough bricks to cover target capital.

Also, target should have a Maneuver called "what's en passant?" to delay the esclation. Starter could at this point play the "Google en passant" Maneuvers that ends the diplomatic play in "holy hell" and the bricks can be released.

Please implement this at d1, whitout this chess analogies will be useless.

Thank you
 
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I think the CB screen should grey out all the options where there is 0 possible choices.
 
It's not like they couldn't do anything about it, if France is really that upset about the unification they could start their own diplomatic play against Württemberg with "Cut down to size", if Württemberg is infamous enough, forcing them to release all states they aquired in the last 20 years.
And the devs also said that a liberate country diplomatic play could be added before release, so it's also a possibility.
Nice. Still actively telling Württemberg and Baden of that France would go to war in case of an unification might work better.

Hmm this might be a future Diplomatic play. Unification. And all the neighbours may weigh in. France acquiesing to German unifcation only if Prussia cedes the Prussian colony of South Carolina :)
 
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Fingers crossed it doesn't end up like EU4 diplomacy where the AI is very much stacked against the player.

"Oh, did a single province nation just annex another single province nation? Time to form NATO against them!"
Or like Stellaris where the AI ALWAYS says no to buy a system
 
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