• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #20 - Diplomatic Actions

16_9 (1).jpg

Hello and welcome to yet another Victoria 3 dev diary! Today we’ll be continuing to talk about Diplomacy, specifically on the topic of Diplomatic Actions, which are the means by which countries in Victoria 3 conduct diplomacy, build (or tear down) relations, and sign various kinds of agreements with each other.

Diplomatic Actions and how they work should be pretty familiar to anyone who’s played pretty much any other Paradox Grand Strategy game. In short, a Diplomatic Action is a type of interaction that is carried out by one country towards another, and which sometimes (but not always) requires the agreement of the other party.

As the exact requirements and effects of a Diplomatic Action are unique to each type of action, this Dev Diary will mostly just be going over which actions currently exist in the game, but before I get into that I want to briefly explain about the three distinct categories that all actions fall into and how they differ:
  • Instant Actions: These are actions that are carried out immediately upon use and/or acceptance (if acceptance is needed). They do not cost any Influence capacity as they do not require maintenance.
  • Ongoing Actions: These are unilateral actions that are carried out over time by one party towards the other, and can only be cancelled by the first party. They can have an Influence maintenance cost, in which case only the first party is the one to pay it.
  • Pacts: These are bilateral actions that are carried out over time as an agreement between two parties. If there is a maintenance cost, both parties have to pay it unless the agreement has a clear senior and junior partner (such as Subject relationships). Both parties can break the pact off, though in some cases it may require the agreement of the other party.
A look at some of the actions and pacts available between two independent countries
dd20 1v2.png

If you’re still a bit unclear on the difference between these three, don’t worry! It should hopefully become clearer once we start going into examples. So with no further ado, let’s talk about what actions there currently are available in the game. Please note that, as always, the game is still under active development so what’s in here may not exactly match what we have for release.

Instant Actions (not necessarily an exhaustive list):
  • Expel Diplomats: This is an action that immediately lowers Relations with the target country, stops any ongoing attempt by them to Improve Relations with you, and blocks further Improve Relations attempts for a period of 5 years. Using Expel Diplomats also gives the acting country some Infamy, and prevents them from using Expel Diplomats on the same country for 5 years.
  • Take on Debt: This is an action that allows one country to take on the debt of another in exchange for being owed an Obligation (more on this in later dev diaries).
  • Redeem Obligation: This is an action that forgives an Obligation owed to the acting country in exchange for a large boost in Relations.
  • Violate Sovereignty: This is an action that allows the acting country to violate the neutrality of another country through whom they need military access, creating a Diplomatic Incident and potentially bringing new countries into the conflict. We’ll go more into under what conditions you can use this and exactly how it works at a later time.

Russia’s unexpected attempt to build stronger relations with the Ottomans is not being received well at the Sublime Porte
dd20 2v2.png

Ongoing Actions (not necessarily an exhaustive list):
  • Improve Relations: This is an ongoing action that slowly raises relations up to a maximum value of 50 (out of 100). Costs Influence to maintain, with the cost increasing if the target has a high Rank
  • Damage Relations: This is an ongoing action that slowly lowers relations down to a minimum value of -50 (out of -100). Costs Influence to maintain, with the cost increasing if the target has a high Rank
  • Bankroll: This is an ongoing action where one country pays a part of its monetary income to another each week as direct subsidies to their state treasury.

The contest between Siam and Dai Nam for control of Cambodia led to a longstanding regional rivalry that sparked several wars in the early 19th century
dd20 3v2.png

Non-Subject Pacts (not necessarily an exhaustive list):
  • Alliance: This is a diplomatic pact that allows two countries to help each other when attacked in a Diplomatic Play, even if they do not have an Interest in the relevant area (more on this next week). Costs Influence to maintain, with the cost increasing if the other part has a high Rank.
  • Customs Union: This is a diplomatic pact where there is a senior and a junior partner, and makes the junior partner part of the senior partner’s national market instead of having their own market. Costs Influence to maintain for the senior partner only, with the cost increasing if the other part has a high Rank.
  • Trade Agreement: This is a diplomatic pact which gives both countries competitive advantages when establishing trade routes in the market of the other country. Costs Influence to maintain, with the cost increasing if the other part has a high Rank.

A trade agreement between Russia and Prussia would let the latter tap even more deeply into the former’s timber exports and improve Russia’s access to German-made tools
dd20 4v2.png


Subject Pacts (not necessarily an exhaustive list):
  • Protectorate: This is a type of non-colonial subject relationship where the subject is very autonomous, the only restriction placed on them being that they are not able to have a fully independent foreign policy. Can be turned into a Puppet by their overlord through a Diplomatic Play.
  • Puppet: This is a type of non-colonial subject relationship where the subject has no diplomatic autonomy, pays part of their income to their overlord and is part of the overlord’s national market. Can be annexed by their overlord through a Diplomatic Play.
  • Dominion: This is a type of colonial subject relationship where the subject has extensive diplomatic autonomy and can have their own subjects, though they’re still required to be part of their overlord’s market. Can be turned into a Territory by their overlord through a Diplomatic Play.
  • Territory: This is a type of colonial subject relationship where the subject has limited diplomatic autonomy, pays part of their income to their overlord and is part of the overlord’s national market. Can be annexed by their overlord through a Diplomatic Play.
  • Tributary: This is a special subject relationship only available to Unrecognized Powers where the subject has extensive diplomatic autonomy and can have their own subjects, though they’re required to pay part of their income to their overlord. Can be turned into a Vassal by their overlord through a Diplomatic Play.
  • Vassal: This is a special subject relationship only available to Unrecognized Powers where the subject has no diplomatic autonomy, pays part of their income to their overlord and is part of the overlord’s national market. Can be annexed by their overlord through a Diplomatic Play.
Afghanistan has no intention of becoming a Persian tributary peacefully, and Persia will have to resort to a threat of force if they intend to press the matter further
dd20 5v2.png

Before I leave off, I also just want to briefly mention that as with many of our systems, the Diplomatic Action system is built to be completely moddable, up to and including adding new forms of Subjects or entirely new Pacts with completely custom effects. We’re quite excited to see how you all take advantage of all this moddability once the game is finally out!

Well then, that’s it! This has of course been something of a brief overview, and we’ve left out a bunch of details regarding a number of the interactions that we’ll come back to later, but it should give you a good idea of the limits of diplomacy in Victoria 3… that is, unless you’re willing to get a bit more bold, in which case you should check back next week, as we talk about Diplomatic Plays and how they will let you shatter those limits!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • 224Like
  • 73Love
  • 15
  • 9
  • 5
Reactions:
Love the idea of there being a continuous upkeep involved in diplomatic relations.

I sphering minigame of Vic2 was incredibly tedious, but also exploitable, which made it feel like you had to micro it, because it was the optimal way to play the game.
 
  • 11
  • 6Like
Reactions:
If the Qing dynasty defeats the great powers and becomes a recognized power, will the loyalty of the tribute nations not be solidified, but on the contrary, will they immediately withdraw from the tribute relationship?
 
  • 8Like
Reactions:
Will there be opportunities for Puppets to do diplomacy at least undercover? Modding aside, and I can see many opportunities to play around with those in regards to Ottoman and Russian subjects, I am curious as to how puppets would be able to handle diplomacy in Vanilla Vic3. Using an example from my Balkans thread and Serbia
which did unofficial diplomacy through the foreign consulates.
 
  • 5Like
  • 1
Reactions:
How does the diplomatic interplay between GPs trying to diplomatic get control over minor powers now play out (like with the old influence system)? Are we able to harm relations between a country and another GP, or something similar, to better position ourselves for long term control?
 
  • 5Like
Reactions:
I am a bit confused: why are protectorates classified as 'non-colonial' relationships? Weren't protectorates some of the more common form of colonial relationships? What exactly do you guys define as 'colonial relationship'?
 
  • 11Like
  • 4
Reactions:
Looks promising. I'm getting more and more curious about how the AI will handle all of these systems.
Summarizing all actions mentioned:

Opinion actions
  • Improve Relations
  • Damage relations
  • Expel diplomats
  • Redeem Obligation

Economic actions
  • Take on debt
  • Propose trade agreement
  • Invite to customs union
  • Join customs union
  • Bankroll

Security actions
  • Form alliance
  • Violate Sovereignity
  • Protectorate
  • Puppet
  • Dominion
  • Territory
  • Tributary
  • Vassal

Trade Agreement: This is a diplomatic pact which gives both countries competitive advantages when establishing trade routes in the market of the other country.

Is there any estimate on when when a dev diary on trade routes will come out?
 
  • 3Like
  • 2
Reactions:
I have a small conceptual question whether when asking for something, could we offer something in return? I think this would make things amazingly more interesting and historical, for example: I ama GP and I offer to an unrecognized nation to pay their debts IN EXCHANGE for them becoming part of my customs union? That would be just great and a breakthrough in diplomacy in Paradox games.
This would be a big shift, and it could be really interesting. Right now the opinion modifiers act as a sort of "bank" for interactions between countries. If paying off a debt gives you a +25 opinion, then you're 25 points closer to getting them to agree to joining your market for the next interaction. But having it all happen at once could be an interesting touch...
 
  • 9
  • 3Like
Reactions:
All of this looks good so far.

One thing I'd like to point out is that there is at least one unusual instance in actual history where a Great Power paid tribute, most likely in kind rather than cash, to another country: Great Britain to Qing China after the complete annexation of Burma. From Wikipedia:

In 1886, after Britain took over Burma, they maintained the sending of tribute to China, putting themselves in a lower status than in their previous relations.[137] It was agreed in the Burma convention in 1886 that China would recognize Britain's occupation of Upper Burma while Britain continued the Burmese payment of tribute every ten years to Peking.[138]

This unique situation probably could be simulated via a special event following an annexation of a Chinese tributary state but it is probably not important enough to justify adding it, as this appeared to be the only historical instance where an European Great Power did this following an annexation of a tributary state. Still, this have to be an interesting situation of irony where a Great Power is paying tributes to... an Unrecognized Country. ;)

However, Portugal and Netherlands did sent tributes to Qing China several times, most likely due to their colonial presence in the Far East, but all of these tributes predated the nineteenth century, with none listed thereafter. Spain apparently did not sent any tributes to Qing at all despite holding Philippines.

Finally, British did annexed Sikkim, also a tributary state to Qing China, but nothing is mentioned whether they continued tribute from there like they did in Burma (it is not clear whether Sikkim was paying tributes at the time of their annexation, either).
 
  • 12
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:
  • Tributary: This is a special subject relationship only available to Unrecognized Powers where the subject has extensive diplomatic autonomy and can have their own subjects, though they’re required to pay part of their income to their overlord. Can be turned into a Vassal by their overlord through a Diplomatic Play.
  • Vassal: This is a special subject relationship only available to Unrecognized Powers where the subject has no diplomatic autonomy, pays part of their income to their overlord and is part of the overlord’s national market. Can be annexed by their overlord through a Diplomatic Play.

What happens to tributaries/vassals should the overlord become a recognized power? Are they allowed to be kept as legacy subjects? Do they instantly convert to a protectorate or puppet? Is the requirement to be an unrecognized power on the overlord or the subject or both?
 
  • 3
  • 1Like
  • 1Love
Reactions:
Increased influence cost for more powerful allies is a clever way of mitigating the EU4 strategy of just getting yourself some really strong allies and bowling over everyone, I like it. I also really like that military access (violate sovereignty) has been changed to better reflect the reality at the time (as far as I understand it) since it seems like you can no longer remain neutral in a conflict while also picking and choosing which nation's armies get to waltz through your borders.

A couple questions though! First, are Obligations the same as Favors as seen in the preview screenshot on Wiz's Twitter yesterday? Also, I'm curious about how the AI will treat their subjects. In other PDX GSGs it seems like their goal is always annex, annex, annex as soon as they can and as soon as they have the resources but that doesn't seem like it would fit the time period all that well, at least in many cases (based on my knowledge at least.) Finally, I wanted to ask (if you're able to talk about it at this stage) what kind of subjects companies like the HBC and EIC start as and whether they'll play a lot differently to nations like Upper Canada for example.

EDIT: Also, I like the icons for the diplomatic actions! I especially like expel diplomats with the little pointing hand. "Get outta town!"
 
Last edited:
  • 4
  • 1Like
Reactions:
What happens to a Unrecognised Countries Tributaries if it becomes recognised?
 
Two questions
1: Why are Tributaries and Vassals only available to unrecognized powers? The Ottoman Empire had multiple very independent tributary states such as Serbia and Egypt whose only relationship with the Ottoman Empire was paying tribute, so being a tributary would be the best way to represent them, but as the Ottoman Empire isn't unrecognized that wouldn't be an option.
2: Could you give some examples of subject pacts and the countries that fit them? Like, Dominion and Territory are pretty obvious as the first one is stuff like the Dominion of Canada and the second is the EIC, but the others are very unclear. How would the Ottoman relationship with the Danubian Principalities be represented? Would they be puppets or protectorates? Would Serbia (which technically wasn't independent until 1867) be a protectorate given how being a tributary isn't an option? If not, what would be a protectorate? Where does Egypt fit into this?
 
  • 10
  • 2
  • 1Love
Reactions: