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EU4 - Development Diary - 14th of September 2021

Hello and welcome to the 2nd Dev Diary for the content of the Sub-Saharan region. Today we will continue with West Africa and take a look at Songhai.


Songhai is the militaristic powerhouse, which will replace Mali as the dominant power of West Africa until its end through infightings for the throne and at the hands of the Moroccans invading from the North. As a result of that, the mission tree of Songhai focuses on militaristic advancement, the conquest of West Africa and the expansion into Maghreb (basically turning the tables on the Moroccans).
dd_son_mission_tree.png

The second and third columns are classic conquest missions. Although I like to avoid pure conquest missions, they are inevitable for a country which is famous for its militaristic expansion.
With that said, the second column focuses on the conquest of the western territories of West Africa until you knock at Mali’s doorstep. The mission “Take the Empire Title” requires you to be a stronger power than Mali by having a bigger military, more prestige, higher stability and more Power Projection than Mali. As a reward you gain the Empire title and a permanent claim on every province owned by Mali or its subjects.
The third column focuses more on the “miscellaneous” conquest targets such as the tribe of Air, the Maghrebi of the North or the important Center of Trade Jenné (I call them Jenné here for consistency sake with the game). Speaking of which, if you are at war with Jenné and siege their capital down they get an event asking them to try for a white peace through a marriage. If they decide so, you as Songhai get the following event:


dd_son_widow_event.png

This event is a reference to the peace Jenné gained through the marriage of Sonni Ali with the widow of the deceased ruler of Jenné. Songhai would also get a consort if they have not the Iqta reform active too.

With the mission "Contact with Maghreb" you gain the first claims on Maghreb and over the course of the two following missions you will conquer Maghreb.

Someone might now wonder why the fourth column looks so empty though, and there is a good explanation for it. If you finish the mission "Eliminate the Mossi Threat" you get the following event:

dd_son_choose_missions.png


You have the choice of either converting the traditional people of your country or tolerating them for who they are, and even become their protector. Either choice will unlock a different set of missions you can pursue. Unlocking the religious missions gives you access to these ones:
dd_son_religious_missions.png

The highlight of the religious missions is the mission "Invite Scholars" as it requests you to have invited any religious school scholar. The reward is that the invited scholar becomes a "resident of your country", which means you can always invite the scholar without having the need of a diplomatic relation with a country of the scholar's school (that was quite the mouthful...). "Convert West Africa" is quite self explanatory which is converting all of the provinces of the Sahel, Niger and Guinea regions (you are NOT required to convert uncolonized provinces though). The reward is a little bit unusual: every country, who has the "Same Religion" opinion modifier of Songhai will now also get a permanent increased +25 (value might change) opinion of Songhai - as long Songhai is in the Muslim religious group. Additionally, it gives permanent +1 Tolerance of the True Faith.

Meanwhile, the path of tolerance has these missions for you:
dd_son_tolerance_missions.png

While the religious missions are quite self explanatory, the tolerance missions are a little bit different, but at their core they mirror the religious path. With "Guarantee the Old Traditions" your Dhimmi estate will get a new estate privilege, which replaces the privileges "Guaranteed Dhimmi Autonomy" and "Guaranteed Religious Minority" with "Guaranteed Traditions", a stronger combination of these two privileges before:
dd_son_dhimmi_estate_privilege.png

Completing "Pagan Alliances" will permanently increase the opinion of all Fetishist countries of you by +25 (value might change). "Unite the Tribes" is the final tolerance mission. You must ensure that at least 35 owned provinces are Fetishistic and that you have a stable and tolerant empire (so basically, have stability, no rebels, +3 Tolerance of Heathens). Completing it will give you the following event:
dd_son_adjust_islam.png

dd_son_reject_islam.png

This concludes the alternative missions.

A few other highlights of the mission tree and for Songhai:
  • The right most column will focus on the economical part of Songhai. As Songhai replaces Mali, it is only fitting that they have also gold and trade related missions (the rewards are however not as explosive as Mali's used to be)
  • The left most column focuses on the modernization of Songhai, with the first mission giving you support for Feudalism in your capital + random province.
  • "Embrace the Glory of Battle" enables a decision, which at a price of 200 Mil Power, which reduces your Global Manpower Modifier by 15% and Manpower Recovery Modifier by -10%, but increases Discipline by 2.5%, Yearly Army Professionalism by 0.5 and Army Tradition by 0.5. This modifier is active as long your ruler lives and can be renewed with every new ruler.
  • "Modernize Songhai" disables the event "Comet Sighted" as your people will finally live in a more enlightened time.
Now one last thing before finishing the Dev Diary. In my very first Dev Diary (in which I made a lot of rookie mistakes, I admit it) I presented the content for Mali. Over the week it has seen some changes I think you all might like.

1. Mali has discovered Fezzan, Mamluks and the path to Mecca (see image below)
dd_son_mali_pov.png
2. Mali's privilege "Controlled Gold Mining" has seen some rebalancing (btw, in the code the modifier already affected Goods Produced and not Production Efficiency. Just the tooltip was messed up last week and I didn't notice it.... so yeah, sorry about the misunderstandings). Again, the values are nowhere near final but it is getting there.
dd_son_gold_privilege.png

3. Mali previous "Abu Bakr" missions have seen a rebranding, changing the name to Ko Mamadi, the Madinke (Mali) version of Muhammad ibn Qu. (Abu Bakr was originally used because of consistency with the achievement name. In hindsight, this was a dumb decision of mine)
dd_son_mali_missions.png

4. The final Mali mission with the 15k Ducats requirement and its reward have been completely replaced. Now it only requires you to have 3 Level 3 Advisors and Monthly Income of 50 Ducats.
The reward is the following event
dd_son_mali_pilgrimage_route.png

I would like to talk more about it in this Dev Diary, but I think it is bloated enough already. The pilgrimage summed up is recreating the pilgrimage Mansa Musa did a century ago, but this time you have the choice to go on an alternative route, which goes through Europe. The pilgrimage takes around 5 years to complete and every ~100 days your travelling group visits a region where you enjoy the hospitality of the local people there. You can decide to leave a donation or move on. If you decide to make a big gift, the greatest nation of the region will receive this:
dd_son_mali_gold_donation.png

The rate of inflation has been lowered significantly and the AI is more inclined to refuse if the event would put them over 15 Inflation. The ducats you get are currently 1 year of Mali's Income and the Inflation scales with the Percentage of trade income compared to your total income (values might change later). Although I will miss the bankruptcy pop-ups, I have to admit that this design is much healthier for the game overall, and that a total crash of a continent does not belong in the base game.

That's it for today. I hope you enjoyed the Dev Diary. Next week we will explore the Horn of Africa. Until then I wish you all a good time!

**********

Mordred Edit; If you are interested in hearing more about the freeze on map changes, please check this thread! https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/eu4-no-mapchanges-and-whys.1490842/
 
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I will repost this every single time until @Johan himself refers to it and notifies all of these problems will be looked upon. I want my favorite game to be back.

GAMEBREAKING PROBLEMS
  1. Pillage capital and concentrate development resulting in giga dev cities.
  2. The American tribes mechanics are still broken, including development issues as well as tribes reforming into monarchies/republics in the 1500s.
  3. The AI still does not handle the government capacity correctly, releasing nations here and there. A proper fix is much needed!
  4. Colonization is not playing correctly this patch and definitely needs to be looked at. This is because of the problem with American tribes as well, because the tribes reforming and gaining all their tribal land results in a coastline covered in uncolonizable provinces.
MAJOR PROBLEMS
  1. The institution system is balanced horribly, and is one of the major problems of the games that last until 1600s and later. It basically results in African tribes being on equal technological foot as European powers. Only the Printing Press institution is spreading at a correct speed; the pace of the rest of them is seriously concerning and due to change. Besides the too fast spread, some are reporting that a part of the problem is because of the AI, that prioritizes the technology over ideas and other monarch power sinks too much.
  2. The mercenaries scaling is broken. Lategame mercenary armies are too big; they need to be capped, or balanced in a different way. The mercenary effect on Army Professionalism is also worth to be looked at, as a simple -5% change every mercenary company hired is off-balance when we hire a 5K or 100K company, or when we don't disband them after the end of the war.
  3. Favors are unbalanced, despite the 5-year band-aid fix. They allow for way too much diplomatic forced action.
  4. The AI.
    1. The AI's usage of mercenaries is broken, including total chaos in the decision making when to get them and when to recruit more regular troops, or getting mercenaries without considering Professionalism, leading to loss of it instead of slackening recruitment standards.
    2. The AI generally fails in regard to buildings (is incompetent economically), and has many bugs related to combat, as seen in post #9 (https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ven-major-problems-list.1477366/post-27581985). Since most of the problems are easily moddable out of the existence, they might be not really difficult to be rid of, and thus Paradox notice on this issue is advised!
IMPORTANT BALANCE PROBLEMS
  1. The conditional military access allows for seriously ahistorical gameplay. Getting rid of it is not necessary, but limiting it would be much appreciated; for example, it could only work for the same religion, so the Ottomans could not go through entire Europe to siege Paris. In this example, they would have to either ask for the access, or wage war against the HRE to get to France.
  2. Burgundian Inheritance often results in France declaring war on Austria with all of her allies. This effectively always destroys France from that moment on. The conditions should be changed, so France can fight toe to toe.
  3. Council of Trent is surprisingly working correctly, but the balance is horribly off. The tradeoff between the two sides (conciliatory and harsh) is the difference in price paid from the Curia Coffers; however, at that point of the game, the Coffers are flowing with money, making the choice utterly one-sided.
  4. The Middle-East is very much not working correctly. Persia almost never forms, and thus the Ottoman Empire, after dealing with the Mamluks, never have a strong rival on the other side of their territory, leaving the fight to the Habsburgs and usually-declining Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. The whole area of Persia seems to be extremely border-gorey, with no nation being able to unite the rest and form Persia. Lack of mission trees in the Middle-East may be related to this issue.
  5. Centralization of states mechanic is currently not worth it in any situation as long as the Expand Administration mechanic exists.
  6. After the rebalance of navies, galleys are effectively winning over heavy ships not only in interior seas, but in oceans as well. This 'rebalance' requires to be rebalanced again.
MINOR PROBLEMS
  1. Many missions are outdated. It is not about the entire mission trees (although the power creep is real), it is about such missions as Spanish cultural conversion of Grenada, which is now broken (ineffective in cost to reward). There are many more examples, including:
    1. Missions on the Indian subcontinent often require high estate loyalty/influence, which was not adjusted to the estates rework.
  2. Manchu forms much more rarely than before, and Prussia almost never forms. Mughals never form. Zaporozhie is a not very amusing joke, being nowhere to be seen ever, despite very unique mechanics it possesses.
  3. The heir claim increase speed during a regency has been reported to be too high, resulting in new rulers never being lower than 'good claim'.
  4. Rivalry is working in a strange way. Why would a nation on the other side of a continent rival you?
  5. Many areas of the interface need work on to be accessible to the player, like information how Revolution works, or what is the "Too high influence with the Holy Father" when excommunication is unavailable.

I'm sorry "game breaking" is just hyperbole.
 
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Since you do not intend to make changes to the map of Africa now, do not dare to do so in the near future!
You missed the opportunity, so it's your fault...
Tinto said they wanted to keep DLC's separate from the base game until they can sort out the major bugs and tech debt. Changing the map for this small DLC contradicts that, as it would be directly effecting the base game. So, I think Africa might be rejigged, but it'll be much further down the line, maybe in the next large expansion.
 
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I want to try Songhai > Fetishist > Christian. As for map, I to would like that. However map to me isn't that important. Now that's only me.

I'm not sure, which path I would take - stay tolerant or convert everything. Maybe stay tolerant, because I like to convert everything to my religion, sometimes need to do a different approach.
I'm also looking forward to Ethiopia and Ajuuraan, they could be very fun, as well.

To me map is very important, because I like to play tall and keep pretty borders. I couldn't imagine expanding with Songhay into Iberia, for example. Everyone has their own preferences, but map changes are really needed - the provinces are huge and there's a lack of tags. It would make the region more diverse and more fun.
 
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Tinto said they wanted to keep DLC's separate from the base game until they can sort out the major bugs and tech debt. Changing the map for this small DLC contradicts that, as it would be directly effecting the base game. So, I think Africa might be rejigged, but it'll be much further down the line, maybe in the next large expansion.
Maybe, but Johan's response to me in the previous thread was worded more strongly than that and in a way that suggested no more map changes were happening at all.
 
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Tolerant Songhai into Fetishist Songhai sounds interesting. Could it be possible @Ogele to do something like this for Mali?
Depends on the workload and time we have. Right now Mali has only one mission which branches out in either being tolerant or being religious though.

@Ogele

Now I'm thinking about it, are Mali / Songhai and others now formable tags or end game tags?
Currently they are neither of those. I am not entirely sure if I want either of those to be reformables, but I will consider it.
 
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1. Prefacing any big patch with an announcement of: "Attention, this patch might break savegames. If you plan to finish any old games, please roll back to the last patch and only update once there are no more old saves left to finish."
They already do this tbf, yet people (EVERY. SINGLE. UPDATE.) complain about broken saves. Not everyone reads the patch notes or is on the forums. Many just ignore it and expect their save to work after a large update.

As for your proposed opt-in system, it just makes it significantly harder and more annoying for people to update their games. Eg, you accidently click off the pop up, and now you have to do a manual install, but your not good with PC's, so now your stuck. It just won't work I don't think. And it's just compensating for the few who don't bother reading announcements. Something more serious and friendly needs to be thought up, what that is though is another question.
 
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Maybe, but Johan's response to me in the previous thread was worded more strongly than that and in a way that suggested no more map changes were happening at all.
I did see that response, and yes it did seem like he was referring to the game as a whole, not just the DLC. And if that's the case, then it's going to turn a lot of people off the game. Personally, I'll carry on playing. But I can already see a load leaving. Wouldn't make much sense to ditch map changes completely seeing the backlash to that single sentence.

Edit: See Johan's post, it's confirmed that there will be no more map updates, ever.
 
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I'm not sure, which path I would take - stay tolerant or convert everything. Maybe stay tolerant, because I like to convert everything to my religion, sometimes need to do a different approach.
I'm also looking forward to Ethiopia and Ajuuraan, they could be very fun, as well.

To me map is very important, because I like to play tall and keep pretty borders. I couldn't imagine expanding with Songhay into Iberia, for example. Everyone has their own preferences, but map changes are really needed - the provinces are huge and there's a lack of tags. It would make the region more diverse and more fun.
I get it now. I also wouldn't mind if they add missions for those Nubian states. I also like nice borders. In my Qing campaign I tried to recreate those borders with smaller additions in Vietnam and Central Asia.
 
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1. Tease with fun stuff
/(1 week later)
2. Cancel fun stuff
/(facepalm)
Srsly, guys...
I guess everyone has different tastes, but for me overpowered mechanics aren't fun -- even if they're locked behind a reasonably high price ticket (although let's be honest 15K isn't that much esp with the previous gold mine privilege along with massive concentrate dev)

Part of the enjoyment I derive out of playing as an african nation is that they're challenging to play and when the europeans come knocking, they come knocking hard and not come knocking bankrupt and already defeated by my meme mission tree.
 
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I get it now. I also wouldn't mind if they add missions for those Nubian states. I also like nice borders. In my Qing campaign I tried to recreate those borders with smaller additions in Vietnam and Central Asia.
Yeah, would be fun to conquer Egypt as a Nubian state. Maybe a Nubian formable?
I haven't played with Qing as of yet, but I have plans for it and that's basically how I imagined it - recreate its borders + some additions, where they could have expanded.
 
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with the current values no one sane will ever pick the "Controlled Gold Mining" privilege. you lose income, pay more mana everywhere and it is very hard to get rid of due to its huge Influence cost, not to speak of the -30 Absolutism, so absolutely worthless after 1600. And all this so your gold mines beyond 10dev are less likely to collapse and you gain less ifnlation, but you shouldn't dev gold mines beyond 10 diplo dev anyway. Even if you removed the All power cost +5% it would not be worth it
 
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I know that time EU4 spent under Jake wasn't the best, but at least he didn't strip the game from what made it live so long - free updates.

Johan, with every single patch or DLC you keep doing a major fuckup. Just stop. Start to actually listen to your community. Or leave entirely.
 
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This is awesome! So happy you listened to the community about the Mali mission tree, and the ability to unlock parts of the Songhai mission tree with events is awesome imo!

I will say though, maybe turn the mission reward mentioned in the "Take the Empire" mission down to only Mali's starting provinces. Having a perm cb on ALL of their existing provinces at that time seems a tad exploity, as you could just wait until they blob up and then claim the mission.

Either way, this DLC is shaping up to be pretty awesome, and thanks for listening to the community!

Edit: Seeing a lot comment about map changes, here's my take: I think that map changes are awesome, and definitely welcome. However, this DLC from the very start has been advertised as an optional DLC, completely separate from the main game. That is the way Tinto want to go forwards until the major bugs and tech debt is fixed. Changing the map for this DLC does not keep it separate from the main game, and will be going against what they said. So it makes sense why they are not planning on making any map changes.

As for further major expansions, I wouldn't mind seeing map changes come back. But tbh, I am happy with the map how it is now.
The hell is an 'optional dlc'? Even without dharma you can still see the reworked india. Without emperor you have thurungia and saxony in personal Union not unified. Even if paradox doesn't want to add new provinces to the game, they can still change who owns what provinces at game start
 
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I always looked at Dev Diaries to see what future DLCs would be about. If I wasn't interested in the content of the DLCs, I waited for their premiere, at least to be able to watch the free content - changes on the map.
Now what are you going to offer to people who won't buy this DLC? - broken save, which will be after the update anyway?

There are no new provinces and new TAGs, so I'm not interested in these DLCs!
While I think this is a fair view to have if every patch was DLC only, every patch has free content that is not just new provinces and new tags. Tinto have released two(2) dev diaries for their next patch, you mind waiting?

By the way, have you missed the last 5 dev posts where they said they're gonna focus on bug-fixing before focussing on new expansions?

Anyway. Just felt like putting a random exclamation point at the end of my post!
 
I know that time EU4 spent under Jake wasn't the best, but at least he didn't strip the game from what made it live so long - free updates.

Johan, with every single patch or DLC you keep doing a major fuckup. Just stop. Start to actually listen to your community. Or leave entirely.
Erm, wasn't like half this dev diary dedicated to how the Mali missions have been adjusted after the communities advice?

And, this isn't the end of free updates. There is still going to be a large 1.32 patch to accompany this small DLC. I expect large expansions in the future will still have large free updates. There is no indication that they are planning on stopping that.
 
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with the current values no one sane will ever pick the "Controlled Gold Mining" privilege. you lose income, pay more mana everywhere and it is very hard to get rid of due to its huge Influence cost, not to speak of the -30 Absolutism, so absolutely worthless after 1600. And all this so your gold mines beyond 10dev are less likely to collapse and you gain less ifnlation, but you shouldn't dev gold mines beyond 10 diplo dev anyway. Even if you removed the All power cost +5% it would not be worth it
But something that is too bad is still probably better than something obviously too strong
@Ogele I know that it's not very... PDX-like, but if you ever felt like you could use some help with figuring out how to make choices like this balanced(ie. feasible but not too strong) I'd be more than happy to help you out or point you in the direction of some other community members who likely could provide some insight

But even if you don't, I think as long as you listen to the community feedback below DDs like you did with the previous one it's going to be okay ^_^
 
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The hell is an 'optional dlc'? Even without dharma you can still see the reworked india. Without emperor you have thurungia and saxony in personal Union not unified. Even if paradox doesn't want to add new provinces to the game, they can still change who owns what provinces at game start
Optional DLC's are DLC's that are not required at all in order to enjoy the game fully. An example of this would be the "immersion packs". They don't add anything else other than new mechanics and missions for the countries they are focusing on. You can still fully enjoy the game without them, a "required" dlc would be something like common sense, a DLC that is widely regarded as essential for you to properly enjoy the game.
 
@Ogele An interesting niche for the Tolerance path in the Songhai mission tree would be to modify the estate Privilege to Max Tolerance of Heathens/Heretics of +1 (so it would be 4 instead of 3) especially since you'll be maxed on Tolerance just by being Sunni with happy Dhimmis.