Stellaris Dev Diary #220 - Additions to Humanoids Species Pack

[HFY]

Will non-enslaving AI empires with the Pleasure Seekers civic understand that they should build robots, and give their droids the Domestic Protocols trait once they get the chance?

Wait noooooo! I want entertainers to replace servants if you don't want to use slavery

Robot Entertainers still give you +1% pop growth.

Is it time to talk about animal husbandry-related mechanical devices?

 

[TrotBot]

Robot Entertainers still give you +1% pop growth.

Is it time to talk about animal husbandry-related mechanical devices?

Rogue Servitors: "we're listening..."

 

[Tamwin5]

Inverting this bonus might make more sense.

Maids being used for pleasure will tend to facilitate more reproduction than professionals who need to stay in business.

I'd be in favor if putting the +1% growth on Servants, and either bonus Amenities or bonus Trade Value on Entertainers.

You could probably do this without changing the text (insofar as it's the text seen here).

It's worth noting that servants will probably either be xenos or robots, so giving them a growth bonus will often not make much sense. Although as you noted just above, entertainers can be those as well. Still, I'm personally a fan of buffing up the bonuses to entertainers/servants and making the living standard less obviously superior.

 

[HFY]

It's worth noting that servants will probably either be xenos or robots, so giving them a growth bonus will often not make much sense. Although as you noted just above, entertainers can be those as well. Still, I'm personally a fan of buffing up the bonuses to entertainers/servants and making the living standard less obviously superior.

If you have a Charismatic slave species (the kind you'd want as Domestic Servants) then that same species can -- and often does -- also take Entertainer jobs.

Furthermore, your species are already mechanically represented as interbreeding, since the logistic population bonus to the currently growing pop increases the same if you have 25 pops from 25 different species on a planet or 25 pops of the same species.


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IMHO the best fix for Pleasure Seekers would be to remove the lifestyle and add more specific bonuses. Most of these are just echos of what's been proposed upthread:

+50% Amenities upkeep (your colonies need more Entertainers and maids, not fewer)

+10% happiness globally (stacks with Utopian Abundance and such)

Entertainers give +3 Unity

Servants give +1% growth (unfortunate implications intentional, slavery is not nice)

Medical Workers get something nice, maybe another +4 Amenities

Nobles get something nice, maybe some Unity

Executives and Managers might get something nice?

 

[Kiwibaum]

If you have a Charismatic slave species (the kind you'd want as Domestic Servants) then that same species can -- and often does -- also take Entertainer jobs.

Furthermore, your species are already mechanically represented as interbreeding, since the logistic population bonus to the currently growing pop increases the same if you have 25 pops from 25 different species on a planet or 25 pops of the same species.


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IMHO the best fix for Pleasure Seekers would be to remove the lifestyle and add more specific bonuses. Most of these are just echos of what's been proposed upthread:

+50% Amenities upkeep (your colonies need more Entertainers and maids, not fewer)

+10% happiness globally (stacks with Utopian Abundance and such)

Entertainers give +3 Unity

Servants give +1% growth (unfortunate implications intentional, slavery is not nice)

Medical Workers get something nice, maybe another +4 Amenities

Nobles get something nice, maybe some Unity

Executives and Managers might get something nice?

Oh I like the idea of increased amenity upkeep and flat +happiness. It's probably a better implementation than what I suggested here https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-amenities-instead-of-consumer-goods.1488655/

I basicly has the same effect but might a) reduce some implementation work and b) forces you to play with that mechanic instead if it being an option. I think I'll add that to the suggestion as a comment, or you can if you want.

 

[HFY]

Oh I like the idea of increased amenity upkeep and flat +happiness. It's probably a better implementation than what I suggested here https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-amenities-instead-of-consumer-goods.1488655/

I basicly has the same effect but might a) reduce some implementation work and b) forces you to play with that mechanic instead if it being an option. I think I'll add that to the suggestion as a comment, or you can if you want.

Feel absolutely welcome to steal back the idea that I probably stole from you in the first place.

 

[Tamwin5]

If you have a Charismatic slave species (the kind you'd want as Domestic Servants) then that same species can -- and often does -- also take Entertainer jobs.

Furthermore, your species are already mechanically represented as interbreeding, since the logistic population bonus to the currently growing pop increases the same if you have 25 pops from 25 different species on a planet or 25 pops of the same species.


===========

IMHO the best fix for Pleasure Seekers would be to remove the lifestyle and add more specific bonuses. Most of these are just echos of what's been proposed upthread:

+50% Amenities upkeep (your colonies need more Entertainers and maids, not fewer)

+10% happiness globally (stacks with Utopian Abundance and such)

Entertainers give +3 Unity

Servants give +1% growth (unfortunate implications intentional, slavery is not nice)

Medical Workers get something nice, maybe another +4 Amenities

Nobles get something nice, maybe some Unity

Executives and Managers might get something nice?

Yeah, definitely in favor of dropping the living standard for your suggestion. 50% amenities usage for 10% happiness doesn't actually do anything productive though, as having 50% more amenities than you need already gives you +10 happiness. Going up to +20 happiness is a little high though, so maybe only a 25% or 20% increase in amenities usage?

The job bonuses should be kept to just servants and entertainers. Nobles are from a completely different civic; Medical workers, managers, and executives don't make much sense. Giving +3 unity to entertainers is a little insane, this would make them better than Exalted Priesthood priests at unity, while also giving twice as many amenities at half the upkeep. +1 unity and +1% pop growth on both entertainers and servants is a little more in line. Maybe +2 unity +2% pop growth?

Another alternative would be to give some other bonus for keeping all your pops in hedonism. +1 influence, say. That way you can half the pop aspects be primarily a negative (increased CG and amenities use), while the entertainer/servant/happiness bonuses are less important.

 

[HFY]

Yeah, definitely in favor of dropping the living standard for your suggestion. 50% amenities usage for 10% happiness doesn't actually do anything productive though, as having 50% more amenities than you need already gives you +10 happiness. Going up to +20 happiness is a little high though, so maybe only a 25% or 20% increase in amenities usage?

No, Amenities have a cap at +20% happiness.

This increases that cap to +30% happiness, but with a cost.

Giving +3 unity to entertainers is a little insane, this would make them better than Exalted Priesthood priests at unity, while also giving twice as many amenities at half the upkeep.

Fair point, lower bonus Unity might be sufficient.

keeping all your pops in hedonism

What does this mean?

 

[Tamwin5]

No, Amenities have a cap at +20% happiness.

This increases that cap to +30% happiness, but with a cost.


Fair point, lower bonus Unity might be sufficient.


What does this mean?

Yes, however you basically never want to build amenities once you are positive (it's just not worth it), so you are being forced to build more amenities is still a downside. Not to mention that to then hit the extra happiness from amenities, you now also have to deal with the 50% increase in amenities usage, making it more expensive. If a colony uses 20 amenities normally, a normal empire could get 20 happiness for 20 excess amenities (40 total). A pleasure seeker (with the changes) would require 30 amenities base, but comes with 10 happiness. In order to get an extra 10 happiness, they'd need 15 excess amenities (total 45).

There are only two situations where trading +50% amenities usage for +10% happiness is neutral or better. The first is if you have exactly 50% more amenities than you'd need normally, or sitting at 0 for the pleasure seeker empire. It's not any better, but it's not any worse either. The second is if you have more than double the amenities you'd normally need. This is unlikely to happen unless you are going for a meme/RP build, since the game is specifically designed so that excess amenities aren't worth investing in. Even the base +50% "sweet spot" is still highly un-optimal play.

Finally, there is also the fact that having +50% amenities usage makes any source of reduced amenities usage half as effective (although admittedly there are only five of those, and one is a hive mind civic that wouldn't apply). Frankly, I'm not even sure that trading +25% amenities usage for +10 happiness would be a positive trade.

Now, this isn't necessarily a bad thing, and other bonuses from the civic could make up for the downside of that trade. But you do need to understand that it is a downside.

I was just saying "in hedonism" to refer to the flavor of the civic and having pops need extra amenities or CGs. Not talking about the FE hedonist jobs.

 

[HFY]

Yes, however you basically never want to build amenities once you are positive (it's just not worth it),

I often end up above the happy cap without particularly trying, so maybe we just play differently. That's especially true on a planet with a lot of Merchants, which will be more common going forward.

Also, remember that with this Civic many Culture Workers can be replaced by Entertainers, further boosting available Amenities.