Stellaris Dev Diary #219 - Selectable Traditions

[Tech Noir Synth]

Prosperity

• Finisher: no longer provides Merchant Jobs per Pops on a planet, but rather increases Stability by +5.

But Hiveminds still get additional Synapse Drones, right? I hope you didn't remove those, because it made this Tradition quite good.

Also any buffs on Hiveminds crime reduction? Their Enforcers are the worst pop jobs at crime reduction in the entire game. And non-Gestalts get to ignore crime via Crime Lord deal anyway. Last I checked, its still possible to prevent pops from moving into the criminal job, so Crime Lord deal was STILL without consequences. Unless you managed to prevent players from doing that.

 

[AlphaAsh]

Changing traditions from minor stat bumps to minor stat bumps that can be distinctive to your empire is a nice improvement of a feature I cared little about. And I'm especially grateful for the improved moddability of traditions this suggests is coming. @grekulf Cheers and are you able to say anything more about that specifically?

 

[fodazd]

I really like the concept that you can actually choose your traditions, instead of eventually ending up with all of them.

I will definitely try out subterfuge, and with mercantile, commercial zones might now *actually* be worth building, maybe as a 1-of per planet?

 

[fusei]

So is Adaptive Economic Policies pretty much a dead trait if you're going to form a trade league?

 

[Mímisbrunnr]

• Insider Trading replaced with Trust or Bust: Trust Cap +50, Trust Growth +33%
• Finisher: no longer increases Trust Cap or Trust Growth, but rather increases Diplomatic Weight by +10% and +1 Envoy.

So, getting market fee discounts will be harder now/things will cost a bit more, but all in all this makes sense as we're splitting off the Mercantile tree-like elements from the Diplomacy tree. The old finisher is now a tradition, and I like getting more Envoys.

 

[DarkEye5]

• Finisher: no longer provides +1 monthly influence, but rather increases +10% ruler output for regular empires, or +10% admin cap for gestalts

I assume you mean Ruler Pop Resource Output similar to what the Shadow Council civic.

Does this mean you've actually fixed this? Because currently it does next to nothing since most of what ruler jobs produces (such as amenities and trade value) doesn't value counts as resources. Which means it's usually only a small boost to unity.

 

[DrNukeLear]

Any news on the current swapped trees (for genocidals and gestalts etc.)?

 

[prismaticmarcus]

Can you swap different tradition trees after having picked one?

i hope not.

 

[Mímisbrunnr]

• Mind and Body: now also increases Leader Skill Cap by +1
• Kinship: effect on demotion time buffed from -50% to -75%
• Bulwark of Harmony moved to Unyielding, replaced with Harmonious Directives: +1 Edict Cap

I like all of these changes in the Harmony Tree - the extra skill cap from the focus on the mind and mental state in mind and body is flavorful, demotion time is a slightly annoying mechanic in all frankness to begin [though it does have some roles in simulating reluctance for pops to do work "beneath" what they used to do] with so cutting it in a further half (from 1/2 at 50% reduction to 1/4 at 75% reduction is a good improvement. And Edict Caps available for everyone who takes the tradition is nice.

 

[Edorath]

Most of the changes are really nice, but i’m not a big fan of the CG and Unity trade policies being gated behind the Merchantile tree, especially the CG one which i liked using for my egalitarian/xenophile playthroughs since the policy’s fluff is the empire giving some of the benefits from trade back to its citizens, and Diplomatic Networking is pretty weak since all flat unity bonuses are only good at the earlier stages from the game, imo a 0.5% or even 1% unity bonus per embassy would be better.
Other than that i really like most of the changes, really like what you guys did with the traditions changes.

 

[Mímisbrunnr]

I assume you mean Ruler Pop Resource Output similar to what the Shadow Council civic.

Does this mean you've actually fixed this? Because currently it does next to nothing since most of what ruler jobs produces (such as amenities and trade value) doesn't value counts as resources. Which means it's usually only a small boost to unity.

Agreed, this is a problem; as amenities and trade value don't benefit from this, this is mostly a dead trait, except for unity and very specific build like Technocracy which has Science Directors.

ADDENDUM:

Also, responding to the dev's original post now, these two feel like really big nerfs.

• Adoption: no longer increases Starbase Cap by +2, but instead increases Naval Cap by +20
• The Great Game: old effects removed, now increases damage done to Starbases by +20%

The damage dealt to starbases being the only benefit of the Great Game feels of Questionable value, and while Supremacy's +20 naval can outdo the 16 naval capacity you'd get from two first level starbases (2 slots) without a Naval Logistics office without spending slots, its gets VERY quickly left in the dust as you get better tech. I really feel it needs a secondary effect to give more relevance later on.

 

[Wirsing]

Thank you. That's a big step in the right direction.

And I certainly share your concern about too many traditions. That's why I don't play with Expanded Traditions/Plentiful Traditions.
(It's just way too much.)

In my opinion the best tradition mod on the workshop is Traditional Thinking by AlphaAsh.
Instead of just adding countless new trees, it only adds a handful. But the biggest change is the implementation of a system, where two trees are paired up and you have to choose between one of them. (Except discovery and diplomacy)

Great to see that the vanilla system will undergo some much needed maintanance.

 

[Skyfus]

we didn’t also want to give players too many options right away, which can lead to Choice Overload.

I have no idea what you mean, the only choice available at the start is Discovery

 

[Pale Blue]

That is a good general direction, but the main issue with traditions stays the same. They are far far too weak compared to tech. That is one of the reasons spiritualist are so weak. They are supposed to be good at unity and traditions but the benefits from investing in unity and trying to rush traditions is not existent. Coupled with the tech requirement that most desirable ascension perks have you can't even utilize the main strength of a tradition rush, because you are lacking the tech to adopt ascension perks.

 

[Hero Of Olympus]

IMO Tradition should change some mechanics more. I really like Favor getting chance in Diplo tree. Would love to get same type of adding new mechanics in others.

 

[James Fire]

Will mods still be able to increase the number of selectable traditions, in addition to adding more?

 

[Mommy]

Look like amazing additions to me! I especially love the two Nemesis tradition trees, am really looking forward to seeing how they work out in game(especially multiplayer)

When it comes to more serious feedback though, I hope you will reconsider locking the trade policies behind the Mercantile traditions. While the new tradition system definitely adds a lot more customizability, I feel like restricting access to those policies is really just taking choices away from the players for no real reason. I suggest maybe a "Scientific Enterprises" tradition instead, letting you get a small amount like 0.1 point of research from trade value(Wealth Creation can give physics, Consumer Benefits industry, and Marketplace of Ideas society) and Trade League can give like, 0.05 of all three. I think that would be a more fun bonus, and it would actually be of value to empires that are in Trade Leagues!

The other thing is, and adding more tradition trees I know is probably beyond the scope of this update, but I feel like it might be a good idea to just take all of Dominion's traditions increasing worker production and improving Enforcers and just make a new "Order" tradition tree, and give Dominion back it's original focus on subject empires(and maybe let it unlock the Hegemony federation for non-Authoritarian empires please)

 

[Ridixo]

It really feels me with joy to see you are working on making the game better and adding things to it. The idea is good. Getting the trees you want is a good idea. Do you select the tree as you unlock it? Or you you can going choosing trees and then you unlock them? That would be one question to address. So far your job looks good. It makes me want to play again. Thanks for that

As for feedback i got this two cents to share:

• Judgment Corps: no longer increases crime prevention, but rather makes your Enforcers produce 1 Unity.

Don't know if this is good or bad. Probably keeping a little crime prevention would be good. Like if it gives -10 reducing it to -5. The unity is good but also makes it look like a free police state. Like getting that civic for free, minus the stability bonus

• Finisher: no longer provides +1 monthly influence, but rather increases +10% ruler output for regular empires, or +10% admin cap for gestalts

That one is pretty sad. Getting more influence was good. It reflected the empire being more dominating and doing stuff around. +10% ruler output for regular empires, or +10% admin cap for gestalts feels like a bad trade. +1 influence per month was way better

Looking forward to next week to see what you got prepare for the humanoids meatbags DLC

 

[Blayze]

This seems like a great time to introduce repeatable Traditions; as it stands now, you get to a point--even without building any Unity buildings--where the only use you have for Unity is just refreshing the Ambitions whenever they drop off.

 

[StellarXe]

Truly appeciate for the dev diaries, I hope devs will visit DLCs back and forth instead of one times. If there are new ideas, just keep adding them will be freaking amazing. I appreciate every one of your hardworks , time and effort.