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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #9 - National Markets

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Hello again! Today we will dig into Victoria 3’s National Market system. Markets are what drives the game’s dynamic economy by determining a rational price based on supply and demand for all trade goods in every state throughout the world. Expanding your national market to encompass more territory means more raw resources for your furnaces and more customers for your manufacturing industries. As your industrial base grows, so does your demand for infrastructure to bring goods to market.

The French market is swimming in cheap Luxury Furniture, Porcelain, Fruit, and Meat. Luxury Clothes and Wine are well-balanced. But as far as luxuries go, Sugar in particular has a sizable deficit and securing a reliable source of that would likely result in improved supply of domestic distilled Liquor as well.
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By default every country is in control of its own market which is typically (but not always) centered on their capital state. Every state connected to this market capital - overland or by sea through ports - is also part of the market. These states all have a variable degree of Market Access representing how well-connected they are to every other state in the market. Market Access is based on Infrastructure, which we will talk more about in next week’s development diary!

All local consumption and production in states contribute to the market’s Buy Orders and Sell Orders. Think of these as orders on a commodity market: higher consumption of Grain will cause traders to submit more Grain Buy Orders while higher production of Silk will result in more Sell Orders for Silk.

Furniture is a popular commodity with the growing urban lower middle-class, and it’s not likely its price in the French Market will drop anytime soon. Assuming the appropriate raw materials remain in good supply, upsizing this market’s Furniture industry is a safe bet.
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As we discussed in the Goods development diary, all goods have a base price. This is the price it would fetch given ideal market conditions: all demand is fulfilled perfectly with available supply, with zero goods produced in excess of demand. If buildings produce more than is being demanded each unit produced will be sold at a depressed price. This benefits consumers at the detriment of producers. Conversely, if demand is higher than supply, the economy of buildings producing those goods will be booming while Pops and buildings that rely on that goods to continue operating will be overpaying.

When determining prices for goods across a market’s many states we start by determining a market price. This is based on the balance between a market’s Buy and Sell Orders, with the base price as a baseline. The more Buy Orders than Sell Orders the higher the price will be and vice versa. Buy and Sell Orders submitted to the market are scaled by the amount of Market Access the state has. This means a state with underdeveloped infrastructure will trade less with the market and rely more on locally available goods.

States with full Market Access will use the market price for all its goods. Otherwise only part of the market price can be used, with the remainder of the local price made up by the local consumption and production of the goods. All actual transactions are done in local prices, with market prices acting to moderate local imbalances proportional to Market Access.

Glass is overproduced in Orsha. Coupled with a suffering Market Access in Orsha this means the Glassworks there can’t sell at the somewhat high market norm for their goods. This works out fine for local Pops and Urban Centers who consume it as they get to pay less than market price. But continuing to expand the Glassworks in Orsha will only lead to worsening Market Access for all local industries, and won’t lead to a better price of Glass anywhere else since fewer and fewer of Orsha’s Glass Sell Order ends up reaching the market. We can see this development on the market price chart: the market price used to be high due to low supply, we started expanding the Glassworks in Orsha which lowered the market price, until the point Orsha’s expanding industry became a bottleneck and prices started to rise again. The last few expansions have done nothing to lower the market price even as the local price has been steadily dropping.
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If an oversupply becomes large enough, the selling price will be so low producers will be unable to keep wages and thereby production volume up unless they’re receiving government subsidies. But oversupply is not remotely as bad as when goods are grossly undersupplied, which causes a shortage. Goods being in shortage leads to terrible effects for those in your market who rely on it; for example, drastically decreased production efficiency of buildings that rely on it as an input. Shortages demand immediate action, whether that be fast-tracking expanding your own domestic production, importing it from other markets, or expanding your market to include prominent producers of the goods.

Lacking access to a sufficient quantity of Dyes, this poor Textile Mill can only manufacture 42 units of Clothes this week instead of 126, which is entirely insufficient to make ends meet. Unless something changes, its wages will be cut to compensate and eventually Cash Reserves will run dry, rendering the building inoperable as its workers abandon it.
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If importing Dyes, growing them on Plantations, or manufacturing them in high-tech Chemical Plants to fix the shortage is not an option, returning the Textile Mills to pre-industrial, low-yield handicraft will remove the need for Dyes and restore the Textile Mills to marginal profitability.
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Astute observers familiar with previous Victorias will note there are no goods stockpiles involved in this system. In the predecessor game a single unit of a goods would be produced, sold, traded, perhaps refined, stored, and ultimately consumed, with global price development determined by how many units are inserted into or removed from the world’s total supply. In Victoria 3, a single unit of goods is produced and immediately sold at a price determined by how many consumers are willing to buy it at the moment of production. When this happens prices shift right away along with actual supply and demand, and trade between markets is modelled using Buy and Sell Orders. This more open economic model is both more responsive to sudden economic shifts and less prone to mysterious systemic failures where all the world’s cement might end up locked inside a warehouse in Missouri. Any stockpiling in the system is represented as cash (for example through a building’s Cash Reserves or a country’s Treasury) or as Pop Wealth, which forms the basis for Standard of Living and determines their level of consumption.

As the econ nerds (you know who you are) will by now have intuited, this lack of goods stockpiling in turn implies that in Victoria 3 we have moved away from the fixed global money supply introduced in Victoria 2. The main reason for this is simply due to how many limitations such a system places on what we can do with the economy in the game. With Victoria 2’s extremely restrictive and technically challenging closed market and world market buying order, it simply wouldn’t have been possible to do things such as Goods Substitution, Trade Routes, dynamic National Markets, transportation costs for Goods and so on in the ways we have, either due to incompatibilities in the design, or simply because it couldn’t possibly be made performant. We believe that the complexity, responsive simulation, and interesting gameplay added by this approach more than make up for what we lose.

Finally, a small teaser of something we will be talking more about once we get around to presenting the diplomatic gameplay. As you may have gleaned from the top screenshot, it is possible for several countries to participate in a single market. Sometimes this is the result of a Customs Union Pact led by the more powerful nation but more often it’s because of a subject relationship with a puppet or semi-independent colonies. In certain cases countries can even own a small plot of land inside someone else’s market, such as a Treaty Port. The route to expanding your country’s economic power is not only through increasing domestic production and consumption, but also through diplomatic and/or military means.

The Zollverein, or German Customs Union, is a broad unified market of German states controlled by Prussia. Without such a union many smaller German countries would find their economies too inefficient and trade opportunities severely hampered by geography and lack of access to naval trade.
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That’s the fundamentals of Victoria 3’s pricing and domestic-trade system! As mentioned, next week we’ll take a look at an aspect of the game that’s closely related to markets and pricing: Infrastructure.
 
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There is nothing magical in fiat money
Yes there is. It's literally "believe in it hard enough and it becomes true" money. That's not a bad thing though, because it's the same magic behind "sound" money. We give it value, therefore it has value just like any other thing designated as currency.
 
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I'll ask my typical questions :D

How open is national market system to modding? And what are some things a player could create mod-wise with the system?
 
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Welcome to Victoria <3

Having everything - war most definitely included - being inextricably tied to market mechanics is a major design pillar for us. No, you cannot stockpile military goods - which means you better hope you have a good gold reserve and either a solid domestic arms industry or reliable trading partners to ensure you don't experience overpricing or a shortages of the military goods you need to run your army at peak efficiency right as you're marching on the enemy capital.
I assume there is *some* kind of stockpile right? Like, if you declare war, your armies don't instantly go from 100% effectiveness to 0% if your supply of arms was created by the enemy in the war but rather drop based on some rate right?(In the same way, I'd assume pops don't literally starve to death overnight?) (In this case not managed by the player, and very limited, but existing? perhaps modified by tech?)
 
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Is it the state's own infrastructure level or some weighted average of the respective nation's infrastructure across all her states that influences the state's access to its national market? Because it would be weird if say New York can enjoy great access to the USA market by simply building up on the coast while the majority of Great Plains are just undeveloped wildness, bypassing the transcontinental railway and the alike which are essential for the east coast to have access to the riches over Appalachian Mountains.
That's kinda the way things were and to an extent still are; it's called flyover country for a reason.
 
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What I'd like to see is a sort of computational fluid dynamics approach to trade and prices, with prices=pressure, trade=velocity, goods=mass(density). The infrastructure issues and transport costs would be captured by having a Pop type called "Trader", who would be the truck-drivers, seafarers, warehouse workers, store stockers, etc. Bad infrastructure (calculated based on the average of the current province's infrastructure and the neighboring province's infrastructure) would require more Traders to move the same amount of goods, and transport costs would be directly modeled via Traders. Goods would literally flow from one province and port to the next, with the price in a province reflecting the cost to bring it there (or produce it there). As I said, a sort of finite-element approach to the problem.
 
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What is the use of having a treaty port in another's market, if our home market back cannot be supplied by much, or our overproduced items cannot be shoved down the throats of the humiliated Chinese like the British did.
 
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View attachment 745772

The French market is swimming in cheap Luxury Furniture, Porcelain, Fruit, and Meat. Luxury Clothes and Wine are well-balanced. But as far as luxuries go, Sugar in particular has a sizable deficit and securing a reliable source of that would likely result in improved supply of domestic distilled Liquor as well.
I’m abit confused re the UI of the price of goods. As far as I can understand it, silver coins signifies the price of that good is more expensive than goods with bronze coins, yet Meats is cheaper than furniture? Am I missing something?
 
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Is it the state's own infrastructure level or some weighted average of the respective nation's infrastructure across all her states that influences the state's access to its national market? Because it would be weird if say New York can enjoy great access to the USA market by simply building up on the coast while the majority of Great Plains are just undeveloped wildness, bypassing the transcontinental railway and the alike which are essential for the east coast to have access to the riches over Appalachian Mountains.
Next week! But as a spoiler, no it's not a national average, and rails are a must for NYC to get access to large quantities of resources from the Great Plains.
 
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This looks great! The only thing that this doesn't have that I was kind of hoping was a kind of "time delay" based on where goods were produced and how well connected they were to their market centres - so an industry might produce some commodity that was greatly in demand when it set off from central India or whatever, only to find it out of fashion and commanded a vastly lower price when it arrived in London 60 days later.
 
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First screenshot indicates France, Sardinia-Piedmont, and the UK are all active in the French market... You went into market access a bit in this dev diary but I was hoping you'd explain how a situation like this arises? As both France & the UK are almost certainly Great Powers, and I imagine Sardinia-Piedmont may also be a major... So can Great Powers have mutual access between markets? Or does the UK have a treaty port in France or something?
 
this looks great, but the lack of stockpiles worries me, how will the economy simulate the Great Depression for example? i'm not an expert on economics but if i remember correctly one of the reasons for the great depression was overproduction
 
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Will decentralized province have their own market, potentially more automatically grouped with other decentrals? iirc uncolonized provinces in vicky 2 don't trade or produce
 
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I’m abit confused re the UI of the price of goods. As far as I can understand it, silver coins signifies the price of that good is more expensive than goods with bronze coins, yet Meats is cheaper than furniture? Am I missing something?
The bronze/silver/gold symbol tells you how cheap/expensive a good is relative to its base price.
 
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I’m abit confused re the UI of the price of goods. As far as I can understand it, silver coins signifies the price of that good is more expensive than goods with bronze coins, yet Meats is cheaper than furniture? Am I missing something?
The coin stacks represent how relatively cheap or expensive goods are. Big stack of gold, high demand / low supply. Small stack of copper, low demand / high supply.
 
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That's kind of sad compared to how it looked in Vic2 and with the supposed HoI4-esque province density to given even more opportunity for detail though.
I don't think they'll be out. In example the Saxes (Altenburg, Meiningen, Weimar and Coburg-Gotha) may be playable but some sort of dependent on Saxony, but game will show them in map as Saxony (like Korea or Tibet with Qing China or Finland with Russia). They historically had some some sort of dependancy, so I suppose that's what we are watching in the screenshot
 
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To the contrary, the worst fears have now been confirmed. No fixed money supply, which means there are magical money sources and sinks.
Honestly, I am for this idea. Every single Paradox game had a huge problem: as time goes on, your money supply becomes so huge that it loses its purpose. This new way I hope that it will stay relevant.
 
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I assume there is *some* kind of stockpile right? Like, if you declare war, your armies don't instantly go from 100% effectiveness to 0% if your supply of arms was created by the enemy in the war but rather drop based on some rate right?(In the same way, I'd assume pops don't literally starve to death overnight?) (In this case not managed by the player, and very limited, but existing? perhaps modified by tech?)

Sounds to me like it would be a bad idea to go to war with the country that supplies all of your arms. Even worse the implication that you were intentionally relying on a rival rather than trying to produce them domestically or relying on friendly neutrals.

Anyway, I imagine it would go down at some rate over time. It's hard to imagine a player ending up with no military goods whatsoever right at the outset of a war. That would mean you were planning very poorly and probably shouldn't have gone to war in the first place.
 
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