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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #9 - National Markets

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Hello again! Today we will dig into Victoria 3’s National Market system. Markets are what drives the game’s dynamic economy by determining a rational price based on supply and demand for all trade goods in every state throughout the world. Expanding your national market to encompass more territory means more raw resources for your furnaces and more customers for your manufacturing industries. As your industrial base grows, so does your demand for infrastructure to bring goods to market.

The French market is swimming in cheap Luxury Furniture, Porcelain, Fruit, and Meat. Luxury Clothes and Wine are well-balanced. But as far as luxuries go, Sugar in particular has a sizable deficit and securing a reliable source of that would likely result in improved supply of domestic distilled Liquor as well.
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By default every country is in control of its own market which is typically (but not always) centered on their capital state. Every state connected to this market capital - overland or by sea through ports - is also part of the market. These states all have a variable degree of Market Access representing how well-connected they are to every other state in the market. Market Access is based on Infrastructure, which we will talk more about in next week’s development diary!

All local consumption and production in states contribute to the market’s Buy Orders and Sell Orders. Think of these as orders on a commodity market: higher consumption of Grain will cause traders to submit more Grain Buy Orders while higher production of Silk will result in more Sell Orders for Silk.

Furniture is a popular commodity with the growing urban lower middle-class, and it’s not likely its price in the French Market will drop anytime soon. Assuming the appropriate raw materials remain in good supply, upsizing this market’s Furniture industry is a safe bet.
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As we discussed in the Goods development diary, all goods have a base price. This is the price it would fetch given ideal market conditions: all demand is fulfilled perfectly with available supply, with zero goods produced in excess of demand. If buildings produce more than is being demanded each unit produced will be sold at a depressed price. This benefits consumers at the detriment of producers. Conversely, if demand is higher than supply, the economy of buildings producing those goods will be booming while Pops and buildings that rely on that goods to continue operating will be overpaying.

When determining prices for goods across a market’s many states we start by determining a market price. This is based on the balance between a market’s Buy and Sell Orders, with the base price as a baseline. The more Buy Orders than Sell Orders the higher the price will be and vice versa. Buy and Sell Orders submitted to the market are scaled by the amount of Market Access the state has. This means a state with underdeveloped infrastructure will trade less with the market and rely more on locally available goods.

States with full Market Access will use the market price for all its goods. Otherwise only part of the market price can be used, with the remainder of the local price made up by the local consumption and production of the goods. All actual transactions are done in local prices, with market prices acting to moderate local imbalances proportional to Market Access.

Glass is overproduced in Orsha. Coupled with a suffering Market Access in Orsha this means the Glassworks there can’t sell at the somewhat high market norm for their goods. This works out fine for local Pops and Urban Centers who consume it as they get to pay less than market price. But continuing to expand the Glassworks in Orsha will only lead to worsening Market Access for all local industries, and won’t lead to a better price of Glass anywhere else since fewer and fewer of Orsha’s Glass Sell Order ends up reaching the market. We can see this development on the market price chart: the market price used to be high due to low supply, we started expanding the Glassworks in Orsha which lowered the market price, until the point Orsha’s expanding industry became a bottleneck and prices started to rise again. The last few expansions have done nothing to lower the market price even as the local price has been steadily dropping.
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If an oversupply becomes large enough, the selling price will be so low producers will be unable to keep wages and thereby production volume up unless they’re receiving government subsidies. But oversupply is not remotely as bad as when goods are grossly undersupplied, which causes a shortage. Goods being in shortage leads to terrible effects for those in your market who rely on it; for example, drastically decreased production efficiency of buildings that rely on it as an input. Shortages demand immediate action, whether that be fast-tracking expanding your own domestic production, importing it from other markets, or expanding your market to include prominent producers of the goods.

Lacking access to a sufficient quantity of Dyes, this poor Textile Mill can only manufacture 42 units of Clothes this week instead of 126, which is entirely insufficient to make ends meet. Unless something changes, its wages will be cut to compensate and eventually Cash Reserves will run dry, rendering the building inoperable as its workers abandon it.
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If importing Dyes, growing them on Plantations, or manufacturing them in high-tech Chemical Plants to fix the shortage is not an option, returning the Textile Mills to pre-industrial, low-yield handicraft will remove the need for Dyes and restore the Textile Mills to marginal profitability.
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Astute observers familiar with previous Victorias will note there are no goods stockpiles involved in this system. In the predecessor game a single unit of a goods would be produced, sold, traded, perhaps refined, stored, and ultimately consumed, with global price development determined by how many units are inserted into or removed from the world’s total supply. In Victoria 3, a single unit of goods is produced and immediately sold at a price determined by how many consumers are willing to buy it at the moment of production. When this happens prices shift right away along with actual supply and demand, and trade between markets is modelled using Buy and Sell Orders. This more open economic model is both more responsive to sudden economic shifts and less prone to mysterious systemic failures where all the world’s cement might end up locked inside a warehouse in Missouri. Any stockpiling in the system is represented as cash (for example through a building’s Cash Reserves or a country’s Treasury) or as Pop Wealth, which forms the basis for Standard of Living and determines their level of consumption.

As the econ nerds (you know who you are) will by now have intuited, this lack of goods stockpiling in turn implies that in Victoria 3 we have moved away from the fixed global money supply introduced in Victoria 2. The main reason for this is simply due to how many limitations such a system places on what we can do with the economy in the game. With Victoria 2’s extremely restrictive and technically challenging closed market and world market buying order, it simply wouldn’t have been possible to do things such as Goods Substitution, Trade Routes, dynamic National Markets, transportation costs for Goods and so on in the ways we have, either due to incompatibilities in the design, or simply because it couldn’t possibly be made performant. We believe that the complexity, responsive simulation, and interesting gameplay added by this approach more than make up for what we lose.

Finally, a small teaser of something we will be talking more about once we get around to presenting the diplomatic gameplay. As you may have gleaned from the top screenshot, it is possible for several countries to participate in a single market. Sometimes this is the result of a Customs Union Pact led by the more powerful nation but more often it’s because of a subject relationship with a puppet or semi-independent colonies. In certain cases countries can even own a small plot of land inside someone else’s market, such as a Treaty Port. The route to expanding your country’s economic power is not only through increasing domestic production and consumption, but also through diplomatic and/or military means.

The Zollverein, or German Customs Union, is a broad unified market of German states controlled by Prussia. Without such a union many smaller German countries would find their economies too inefficient and trade opportunities severely hampered by geography and lack of access to naval trade.
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That’s the fundamentals of Victoria 3’s pricing and domestic-trade system! As mentioned, next week we’ll take a look at an aspect of the game that’s closely related to markets and pricing: Infrastructure.
 
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Please tell me that that is not how Germany will look in the final product. This is at least 5 tags fewer than we had in Victoria 2: the three thuringian states are gone, lippe-detmold is gone and one of the Hessian states is gone.
I suppose some of the minors may be treated as some sort of dependents of bigger countries, the Saxes of Saxony, one Hesse of the other...
 
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Welcome to Victoria <3

Having everything - war most definitely included - being inextricably tied to market mechanics is a major design pillar for us. No, you cannot stockpile military goods - which means you better hope you have a good gold reserve and either a solid domestic arms industry or reliable trading partners to ensure you don't experience overpricing or a shortages of the military goods you need to run your army at peak efficiency right as you're marching on the enemy capital.

Thats really wierd for mass conscript armies unless unmobilized divisions still draw equipment somehow.

The likes of France and Germany had massive stockpiles of rifles for mobilizing their armies. Ok that ammunition supplies didnt last that long and attrition replacment of rifles required expansion of manufacturing capabilities, but it was not like rhey jad a shortage of rifles in the initial weeks of we1.
 
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It looks really neat! I'm curious what the three other flags in the French Market are, as I can reconigze France, Sardinia-Piedmont, and the UK.
Seems randomly generated flags, maybe French Colonies...
 
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Thats really wierd for mass conscript armies unless unmobilized divisions still draw equipment somehow.

The likes of France and Germany had massive stockpiles of rifles for mobilizing their armies. Ok that ammunition supplies didnt last that long and attrition replacment of rifles required expansion of manufacturing capabilities, but it was not like rhey jad a shortage of rifles in the initial weeks of we1.
We’ll know more once we get Dev Diaries on the military, but I would guess this is baked into the mobilization system.
 
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Oh, I'm really into this.
 
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Following up on why this is a major issue:

You can't build an industry for war, without actually going to war because there's no profitability unless you're actively mobilising and reinforcing your divisions with fresh troops that also then have to buy new clothes and weapons and ammunition. In the case of countries with no access to relevant resources, you may not even be able to wage an effective war without a stockpile of uniforms, weapons, and ammunition.

For reference, peace time Russia has ~100 divisions. Mobilised Russia has ~1000 divisions. You cannot reasonably expect an industry to run at 10% Buy Orders for decades and then run at 100% immediately, or even in any realistic time frame during a war. Even if you had the raw resources for it all, you'd need to have those raw industries and intermediate industries expanded and fully employed, while they also ran at a approximate 90% loss from optimal.
Which is exactly what happened historically to countries in WWI. Every country blew through their pre-war stockpiles incredibly quickly and then were in deep shit when they had to re-tool their industries for a total war footing. Countries that could not (like Russia) suffered immensely.

Granted there should probably be some mechanism to stockpile military goods for a conflict, but wars should be massively expensive and disruptive, especially a fully industrialized slug fest like WWI.
 
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"Market Access is based on Infrastructure, which we will talk more about in next week’s development diary!"

This almost certainly includes things like port infrastructure to handle goods transportation across oceans.
Yeah, "almost", that's why I'm asking.
But well, let's wait for next week to hear more about it.
 
As we discussed in the Goods development diary, all goods have a base price. This is the price it would fetch given ideal market conditions: all demand is fulfilled perfectly with available supply, with zero goods produced in excess of demand. If buildings produce more than is being demanded each unit produced will be sold at a depressed price. This benefits consumers at the detriment of producers. Conversely, if demand is higher than supply, the economy of buildings producing those goods will be booming while Pops and buildings that rely on that goods to continue operating will be overpaying.

When determining prices for goods across a market’s many states we start by determining a market price. This is based on the balance between a market’s Buy and Sell Orders, with the base price as a baseline. The more Buy Orders than Sell Orders the higher the price will be and vice versa. Buy and Sell Orders submitted to the market are scaled by the amount of Market Access the state has. This means a state with underdeveloped infrastructure will trade less with the market and rely more on locally available goods.
This is very disappointing to read, and the first developer diary that has disappointed me at all. I had really hoped that Victoria 3 would go for a more realistic market model than Victoria 2, and it seemed to be developing the tools necessary to do so, with goods substitution, different production methods and so on. In a real market supply can match demand at any price point, if there is a shortage of supply people change their spending habits, businesses furlough workers or retool for other work. A realistic market system would be dynamic rather than static. If you start out with supply and demand being equal at some price point and then removed a bunch of supply of that resource the price would go up from its current value, whatever that might be, the higher price would cause pops to substitute other goods, industries to switch production methods and make building more buildings supply that resource more profitable. This would then cause supply and demand to once again come into balance, but with a lower amount of demand equaling a lower amount of supply and at a higher price. Currently you have the tools available to respond to changing prices, but actually responding to new prices with those tools removes the price aberration they were responding to.
 
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Is it the state's own infrastructure level or some weighted average of the respective nation's infrastructure across all her states that influences the state's access to its national market? Because it would be weird if say New York can enjoy great access to the USA market by simply building up on the coast while the majority of Great Plains are just undeveloped wildness, bypassing the transcontinental railway and the alike which are essential for the east coast to have access to the riches over Appalachian Mountains.
 
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While the current vision of the market isn’t too bad, I personally think that having goods inventory would be more realistic. Issues with implementation perhaps?
 
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Which is exactly what happened historically to countries in WWI. Every country blew through their pre-war stockpiles incredibly quickly and then were in deep shit when they had to re-tool their industries for a total war footing. Countries that could not (like Russia) suffered immensely.

Granted there should probably be some mechanism to stockpile military goods for a conflict, but wars should be massively expensive and disruptive, especially a fully industrialized slug fest like WWI.

This actually makes me wonder what kind of factory building/management micro this system could entail. I guess we'll have to wait for the dev diaries on war.
 
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I think it certanly needs some storeing systems. Where you can accumulate raw materials and manipulate markets in your way. And also way to release materials from storage.i you have bought cheap glass and country who have supplied with that class goes to war or cancels trade relations with you or reorganizes it markets you still can fulfill your market demand from stored supplys
 
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Regarding currencies and money supply:

Like in previous Victorias, the pound symbol is not to be taken as an assertion that all trade happen in British Pounds, but as a universal money symbol. I'd love to make a game with multiple currencies and a currency market but oh my god the implications

The "money supply" works on much the same principle: the pound is any arbitrary unit of value, not a literal bank note. When the money is stored in your treasury, it's a "gold reserve". When you're running a deficit, it's the "debt principal". When a Pop has some money left over, it's converted into Wealth (savings, investments, etc.) When a Pop lacks money, their Wealth is drained. The money supply, or value store as it were, is the sum total of Treasuries, building Cash Reserves, and Pop Wealth, if you want to think of it that way.
 
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I suppose some of the minors may be treated as some sort of dependents of bigger countries, the Saxes of Saxony, one Hesse of the other...
That's kind of sad compared to how it looked in Vic2 and with the supposed HoI4-esque province density to given even more opportunity for detail though.
 
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