Second Erudition legacy: "Hold my beer."
+5 Clergy Opinion if Theocratic, or +3 Same Faith Opinion if Lay Clergy
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CK3 Summer Teaser #1
- Thread starter Servancour
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+5 Clergy Opinion if Theocratic, or +3 Same Faith Opinion if Lay Clergy
That does help, but there's also the -35% cultural acceptance gain. It means that if you or other realms of your culture are ever vassalized by a foreign ruler (like, say, your kingdom title is conquered but you retain lower titles), other vassals of your culture are going to be much less likely to accept the new ruler and will join factions for independence or putting another claimant (you) back on the throne.
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I'm not sure to what extent you guys are serious and to what extent you're messing around, but the obvious example would be the Muslim Arabs (and Berbers), followed by the Christian crusader cultures.
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where did muslim arabs in the CK timeline conquer multiple kingdoms in a lifetime against religious enemies, and where did the crusaders do it? Crusaders in CK3 timeline conquered exactly one in-game kingdom, Jerusalem.
if you want to add in Baltic crusades they would require entirely different mechanics, and no one king conquered multiple kingdoms in these crusades
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We were talking about cultures that have holy wars as a "cultural tradition." The Muslims spent centuries conquering more and more land shortly before the CK2 era. Some of those realms still survived well into the CK2 era. I'd say that counts.
The Christian lack of conquests from the crusades was because of losing most of the time, not for lack of trying. And of course the Baltic crusades count.
I don't see how what in-game mechanics we need to implement to approximate the Baltic crusades would affect whether or not certain Christian cultures have a tradition of holy war?
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because the in-game tradition allows for infinite kingdom-level holy wars in a lifetime, which is the purpose of the discussion. we were explicitly talking about cases in real life of any culture that actually deserves such an overpowered buff.
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I'm going to assume that "By the Sword" is not in any of the pre-existing cultures; it's worth noting that it is pictured as a tradition of the "Scanian" culture (which isn't in the game, unlike the rest of the cultures shown, and doesn't make sense as a new culture to introduce).
It's probably like the tenet "Pursuit of Power" in religion, which is likewise not used by any actual existing religion in-game but which you can add to your custom religion to give it the OP conquest CB.
It's probably like the tenet "Pursuit of Power" in religion, which is likewise not used by any actual existing religion in-game but which you can add to your custom religion to give it the OP conquest CB.
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First, I'm not sure I buy that there will be hundreds or thousands of instances in a "small monoculture kingdom" - maybe if you build a giant empire, you'd have many vassals who might go to war, but in small kingdom, are there really that many opportunities for this modifiers to make a difference?
Second, having a positive opinion bonus for everyone can sometimes cancel out. Vassals get a slightly decreased chance to join a claimant faction if they like the liege, but they also get an increased chance if they like the claimant.
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At least as of 1.2, the AI was literally unable to join holy wars. If that has been updated since, it wasn't mentioned in any patch notes that I could find..
Now, Muslims have the issue that they polygamy means they are likely to all be allied with each other, so they will likely join each others' wars as regular allies, which may be what you are seeing?
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That wouldn't explain the Russians joining in though in the wars up there.
I was also (for the Jimena game) picking enemies that had no, or very few allies.
Unfortunately I don't have the saves on hand to test it, and it's a bit late here to fire up the game and get some Holy Wars going to check.
Ayyy can see myself having fun with Collective Lands. Slap that on with Communal and I might have something to scratch my non-feudal, clan-based realms itch.
By the Sword sounds phenomenally OP though. I can't see any downsides at all to infinite Kingdom Holy War and earlier Duchy/Kingdom Holy War availability. Once you're at the point where you're declaring for kingdom, piety comes pretty cheap.
Isolationist sounds like a good way to keep the Greeks to Greeks though. My understanding was that the Byzantines were a bit greedy with who they married into. Reward a princess to someone deserving, but not exactly carrying vast marriage alliances across Europe... as is typical in CK3. Potential to make an AI Roman Empire a little more precarious?
By the Sword sounds phenomenally OP though. I can't see any downsides at all to infinite Kingdom Holy War and earlier Duchy/Kingdom Holy War availability. Once you're at the point where you're declaring for kingdom, piety comes pretty cheap.
Isolationist sounds like a good way to keep the Greeks to Greeks though. My understanding was that the Byzantines were a bit greedy with who they married into. Reward a princess to someone deserving, but not exactly carrying vast marriage alliances across Europe... as is typical in CK3. Potential to make an AI Roman Empire a little more precarious?
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Not sure I agree with that. In the game's time period, we have several foreign empress-consorts:
Catherine of Bulgaria - Wikipedia
Maria of Alania - Wikipedia
Irene of Hungary - Wikipedia
Dobrodeia of Kiev - Wikipedia
Bertha of Sulzbach - Wikipedia
Maria of Antioch - Wikipedia
Agnes of France (empress) - Wikipedia
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Well sure, it's a -50 not an impossibility. You also have that backwards, those are foreigners marrying in, not princesses sent out. Not that there's much of an in-game distinction tbf.
Regarding Isolationist: If there was a tradition that just gives +5 same culture opinion and +0.5 control growth a month, then I would not consider that bad. Not particularly strong either, but not bad. If most traditions end up on the weak side, I might actually consider picking that. The other question regarding this tradition is which way the marriage acceptance penalty works: If it's -50 both ways or just for me arranging marriages with other cultures, then that penalty is way too steep to justify picking it. If it just means that the AI of characters of my culture is less likely to accept marriage proposals from characters of another culture, but I can still arrange marriages as normal, then that would actually be a *significant* buff, because it would give me more control over the marriages of my vassals. If reduced cultural acceptance isn't a dealbreaker (which it very well might be) and there aren't that many other strong tradition, then I might *actually* consider picking Isolationist in this case.
I still maintain that By the Sword is a lot weaker than people here seem to think. My chance of picking isolationist is actually higher that my chance of picking By the Sword, at least if my speculation that the marriage acceptance is one way in my favor is accurate.
I still maintain that By the Sword is a lot weaker than people here seem to think. My chance of picking isolationist is actually higher that my chance of picking By the Sword, at least if my speculation that the marriage acceptance is one way in my favor is accurate.
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nah it's the peasant commune traditions from the holy grail
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by default diplo range is very big - you can invite people from sirya to norway
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Very cool!
The only thing I question is if scanians ever really holywared for whole kingdoms often. Is there historical reasoning for this?
The only thing I question is if scanians ever really holywared for whole kingdoms often. Is there historical reasoning for this?