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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #6 - Interest Groups

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Hello once again and welcome back to yet another Victoria 3 dev diary. Where previous dev diaries have been focusing on the economy, we’re now going to switch gears to another core pillar of the Victoria series - internal politics! More specifically, we’re going to be talking about Interest Groups, which form the nucleus of Victoria 3’s political gameplay.

What then, are Interest Groups? Fundamentally, an Interest Group is a collection of pops that espouse certain political views and want to change the country to be more in line with those views. Interest Groups are drawn from a number of different templates, but will vary in their exact views from country to country, based on factors such as the local religion, which social movements have appeared in the country or the personal views of their leader.

The Landowners is an Interest Group dominated by the Aristocracy and tends to be firmly in the conservative side of politics
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As mentioned, Interest Groups are fundamentally made up of Pops - all individuals in all Pops are either members of an Interest Group or Politically Inactive, with the ratio in each based on factors such as Profession, Wealth, Literacy etc. Individuals inside Pops contribute Political Strength to their Interest Group of choice, with the amount they contribute again dependent on multiple factors, the main ones being their material Wealth and the status (and/or votes!) they are offered under the nation’s power structure.

For example, a single wealthy Aristocrat in an Oligarchy will provide hundreds or even thousands times the political strength of a poor laborer. The total Political Strength of all Pops in an Interest Group is what gives it its level of Clout - the amount of political weight it can assert on the country and the government. It’s important to note though that Pops are not unified in which Interest Groups they support - individuals within Pops are the ones who decide their Interest Group, and a single Pop can potentially have individuals supporting every Interest Group in the game (in different numbers).

Some Pops have no political strength at all, usually due to being disenfranchised under the nation’s laws (such as people of a religion or culture that is discriminated against, or women in countries that haven’t instituted women’s suffrage). These Pops are ‘outside the system’ so to speak, unable to demand reform through the regular political system of Interest Groups, and instead having to rely on other methods to put pressure on the government, but we won’t focus on those today.

Individual members of a Pop can support different Interest Groups - or stay out of politics altogether!
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As mentioned above, Interest Groups have a number of ideologies which determine their views on which laws the country should or should not enact. Different Interest Groups will have different ideologies (the Landowners are significantly more conservative than the Trade Unions, for example - shocking, I know!) but these are not entirely set in stone - they can change over the course of the game and will also vary based on the current leader of the Interest Group, who comes with his or her own personal ideology and view of the world. Additionally, some Interest Groups in certain countries have unique ideologies colored by their religion and culture, such as the Confucian Scholars Interest Group in Qing China who (unsurprisingly) espouse a Confucian ideology.

Interest Groups will generally favor laws that benefit them in some way
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I mentioned previously that Interest Groups have a level of Clout based on the total Political Strength of their constituent Pops. Clout is calculated by comparing their Political Strength to that of the other Interest Groups in the country - if all the Interest Groups in Belgium put together have 100k Political Strength and the Landowners have 30k, they correspondingly get 30% of the Clout in Belgium. The Interest Group’s Clout will determine their classification - Powerful, Influential or Marginalized.

Interest Groups also have a level of Approval, which is based on factors such as how much they approve of the country’s laws, whether they are in government or in opposition, and how many of their individual members are Loyalists or Radicals (more on those in a later dev diary). There are numerous other factors that can affect Approval as well, such as how you react to certain events or decisions that you take.

Together, the classification and Approval of an Interest Group determines which Traits are active for an Interest Group at any given time, and how impactful they are. There are different traits, positive and negative, with positive traits being activated when an Interest Group is happy and negative ones when they are… not so happy. If an Interest Group is Powerful, the effects of any traits they have active (good or bad) are stronger, while an Interest Group that is Marginalized cannot activate traits at all, as they are too weak to exert an effect on the whole country.

Traits are, of course, not the only way that Interest Groups can affect a country, and it’s even possible for one (or several!) angry Interest Groups to start a civil war, potentially bringing in foreign countries to support them.

Keep the aristocracy happy, and they’ll be more willing to reinvest their ‘hard-earned’ money into the country
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Now, something that’s been a hotly debated topic in the community in regards to Interest Groups is Political Parties and whether they will be a part of Victoria 3 so I want to briefly touch on this. What I can tell you for now is that we are currently looking into a solution where parties can form in certain countries as constellations of Interest Groups holding a shared political platform. This is something that’s by no means fully nailed down at this point though, so don’t take this as a 100% firm commitment to how they would function. What I can tell you for sure is that we will come back to this particular topic later!

That’s all for today, though we’ll certainly be coming back to the subject of Interest Groups and looking at the different types you will encounter in later dev diaries. With July and summer vacations coming up, we’re going to take a short break from Development Diaries, but we’ll be back on July 22nd as Mikael returns to continue talking about politics in Victoria 3, on the subject of Laws.
 
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Hi, I have a question since yesterday:
I came to wonder why marginalized groups don't have their interest groups. We did after all have abolitionists and suffragettes (I understand that we didn't necessarily have abolitionist pressure groups comprised of slaves haha, but suffragettes are (?) the same as any interest group). So as far as I understand interest groups are not 1:1 with pressure groups?
I like that other interest groups can have anti-slavery ideology though (which is true to history)!
 
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Public schools in the US are publicly owned and publicly funded. It's not Americans that use the term wrong. ;)
As a Brit, I entirely agree with you.

The British use of the word is a tired anachronism from when the establishments in question needed to be distinguished from church schools.
 
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Hi, I have a question since yesterday:
I came to wonder why marginalized groups don't have their interest groups. We did after all have abolitionists and suffragettes (I understand that we didn't necessarily have abolitionist pressure groups comprised of slaves haha, but suffragettes are (?) the same as any interest group). So as far as I understand interest groups are not 1:1 with pressure groups?
I like that other interest groups can have anti-slavery ideology though (which is true to history)!
We have a different way of handling single issue pressure groups that we'll get into later.
 
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We have a different way of handling single issue pressure groups that we'll get into later.
Will members of such groups normally be Politically Inactive to represent their non-involvement in the establishment politics? So, for example, the Slavic people of the Austrian Empire will only want their independence or at least equal rights, and won't lend their support to the Austrian church, intelligentsia, rural folk etc.?
 
Little teaser for you:
View attachment 736408
Under Census Suffrage, only literate Pops are given the vote. The Intelligentsia thinks this is actually just as good as Universal Suffrage, something the Populist Trade Unions disagrees with.
Great idea, but with some caveats. Historically this approach was often just a disguise for racial discrimination. As in game discrimination in schooling can lead to the same effect, it would be surprising for supposedly "progressive" Intelligentsia to be fond of such laws.
 
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Can an interest group support a candidate to rule the country? For example, are French agricultors Bonapartist at the begining of the game? I think Napoleon III had a lot of support in the rural areas. Or for example are rural folks in Spain Carlist at game start? The Northern Carlists are the most famous, but in Spain there were a lot of journaliers and agricultors that wanted a return to tradition and also clergymen that rejected the desamortización and could be labelled as Carlists. Or are the pretenders modelled by events rather than support from interest groups?
 
Well... That's not how censitary suffrage works.

1840's France had 2/3 litteracy according to military statistics but only around 300 000/400 000 active electors. There should definitely be some wealth threshold there.
France would have Wealth Voting under our systems (which requires Wealth 20 or higher to vote), though we could also add a lower wealth voting threshold to Census Suffrage.
 
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Great idea, but with some caveats. Historically this approach was often just a disguise for racial discrimination. As in game discrimination in schooling can lead to the same effect, it would be surprising for supposedly "progressive" Intelligentsia to be fond of such laws.
Well-to-do liberals have frequently supported a whole lot of not so progressive things throughout history (and still do to this day).
 
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I have a question regarding player's interaction with IG leaders.
Will be there any? Can players in some degree influence selection of the leader?
Will be there some "Ck3 style plots"?
 
I do like the style of the map as well, especially as the countries have slightly variable colours (different brightnesses) that give it a almost ink painted look. Also, although this may be just a style choice or it still being WIP, it looks as though the UK start out with Hanover annexed. Could be a system of puppets taking on their overlords colour but it's difficult to tell from this screenshot.
We know puppets are the same colour as their overlord. As you can also see on this map, Norway is the same colour as Sweden.
 
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Just perfect. I haven't been to a party for a year now and Vic3 also propably won't have parties as well.

2021 sucks already ;)
 
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I cant get into this system without formal politcal parties. It just seems silly to see generic "landowners" getting votes in elections or being part of a government. Cant wait to see what they come up with to bring back political parties in a realistic way. For now it doesnt work at all for me.
 
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View attachment 735824

Hello once again and welcome back to yet another Victoria 3 dev diary. Where previous dev diaries have been focusing on the economy, we’re now going to switch gears to another core pillar of the Victoria series - internal politics! More specifically, we’re going to be talking about Interest Groups, which form the nucleus of Victoria 3’s political gameplay.

What then, are Interest Groups? Fundamentally, an Interest Group is a collection of pops that espouse certain political views and want to change the country to be more in line with those views. Interest Groups are drawn from a number of different templates, but will vary in their exact views from country to country, based on factors such as the local religion, which social movements have appeared in the country or the personal views of their leader.

The Landowners is an Interest Group dominated by the Aristocracy and tends to be firmly in the conservative side of politics
View attachment 735844


As mentioned, Interest Groups are fundamentally made up of Pops - all individuals in all Pops are either members of an Interest Group or Politically Inactive, with the ratio in each based on factors such as Profession, Wealth, Literacy etc. Individuals inside Pops contribute Political Strength to their Interest Group of choice, with the amount they contribute again dependent on multiple factors, the main ones being their material Wealth and the status (and/or votes!) they are offered under the nation’s power structure.

For example, a single wealthy Aristocrat in an Oligarchy will provide hundreds or even thousands times the political strength of a poor laborer. The total Political Strength of all Pops in an Interest Group is what gives it its level of Clout - the amount of political weight it can assert on the country and the government. It’s important to note though that Pops are not unified in which Interest Groups they support - individuals within Pops are the ones who decide their Interest Group, and a single Pop can potentially have individuals supporting every Interest Group in the game (in different numbers).

Some Pops have no political strength at all, usually due to being disenfranchised under the nation’s laws (such as people of a religion or culture that is discriminated against, or women in countries that haven’t instituted women’s suffrage). These Pops are ‘outside the system’ so to speak, unable to demand reform through the regular political system of Interest Groups, and instead having to rely on other methods to put pressure on the government, but we won’t focus on those today.

Individual members of a Pop can support different Interest Groups - or stay out of politics altogether!
View attachment 735822

As mentioned above, Interest Groups have a number of ideologies which determine their views on which laws the country should or should not enact. Different Interest Groups will have different ideologies (the Landowners are significantly more conservative than the Trade Unions, for example - shocking, I know!) but these are not entirely set in stone - they can change over the course of the game and will also vary based on the current leader of the Interest Group, who comes with his or her own personal ideology and view of the world. Additionally, some Interest Groups in certain countries have unique ideologies colored by their religion and culture, such as the Confucian Scholars Interest Group in Qing China who (unsurprisingly) espouse a Confucian ideology.

Interest Groups will generally favor laws that benefit them in some way
View attachment 735821

I mentioned previously that Interest Groups have a level of Clout based on the total Political Strength of their constituent Pops. Clout is calculated by comparing their Political Strength to that of the other Interest Groups in the country - if all the Interest Groups in Belgium put together have 100k Political Strength and the Landowners have 30k, they correspondingly get 30% of the Clout in Belgium. The Interest Group’s Clout will determine their classification - Powerful, Influential or Marginalized.

Interest Groups also have a level of Approval, which is based on factors such as how much they approve of the country’s laws, whether they are in government or in opposition, and how many of their individual members are Loyalists or Radicals (more on those in a later dev diary). There are numerous other factors that can affect Approval as well, such as how you react to certain events or decisions that you take.

Together, the classification and Approval of an Interest Group determines which Traits are active for an Interest Group at any given time, and how impactful they are. There are different traits, positive and negative, with positive traits being activated when an Interest Group is happy and negative ones when they are… not so happy. If an Interest Group is Powerful, the effects of any traits they have active (good or bad) are stronger, while an Interest Group that is Marginalized cannot activate traits at all, as they are too weak to exert an effect on the whole country.

Traits are, of course, not the only way that Interest Groups can affect a country, and it’s even possible for one (or several!) angry Interest Groups to start a civil war, potentially bringing in foreign countries to support them.

Keep the aristocracy happy, and they’ll be more willing to reinvest their ‘hard-earned’ money into the country
View attachment 735820

Now, something that’s been a hotly debated topic in the community in regards to Interest Groups is Political Parties and whether they will be a part of Victoria 3 so I want to briefly touch on this. What I can tell you for now is that we are currently looking into a solution where parties can form in certain countries as constellations of Interest Groups holding a shared political platform. This is something that’s by no means fully nailed down at this point though, so don’t take this as a 100% firm commitment to how they would function. What I can tell you for sure is that we will come back to this particular topic later!

That’s all for today, though we’ll certainly be coming back to the subject of Interest Groups and looking at the different types you will encounter in later dev diaries. With July and summer vacations coming up, we’re going to take a short break from Development Diaries, but we’ll be back on July 22nd as Mikael returns to continue talking about politics in Victoria 3, on the subject of
View attachment 735824

Hello once again and welcome back to yet another Victoria 3 dev diary. Where previous dev diaries have been focusing on the economy, we’re now going to switch gears to another core pillar of the Victoria series - internal politics! More specifically, we’re going to be talking about Interest Groups, which form the nucleus of Victoria 3’s political gameplay.

What then, are Interest Groups? Fundamentally, an Interest Group is a collection of pops that espouse certain political views and want to change the country to be more in line with those views. Interest Groups are drawn from a number of different templates, but will vary in their exact views from country to country, based on factors such as the local religion, which social movements have appeared in the country or the personal views of their leader.

The Landowners is an Interest Group dominated by the Aristocracy and tends to be firmly in the conservative side of politics
View attachment 735844


As mentioned, Interest Groups are fundamentally made up of Pops - all individuals in all Pops are either members of an Interest Group or Politically Inactive, with the ratio in each based on factors such as Profession, Wealth, Literacy etc. Individuals inside Pops contribute Political Strength to their Interest Group of choice, with the amount they contribute again dependent on multiple factors, the main ones being their material Wealth and the status (and/or votes!) they are offered under the nation’s power structure.

For example, a single wealthy Aristocrat in an Oligarchy will provide hundreds or even thousands times the political strength of a poor laborer. The total Political Strength of all Pops in an Interest Group is what gives it its level of Clout - the amount of political weight it can assert on the country and the government. It’s important to note though that Pops are not unified in which Interest Groups they support - individuals within Pops are the ones who decide their Interest Group, and a single Pop can potentially have individuals supporting every Interest Group in the game (in different numbers).

Some Pops have no political strength at all, usually due to being disenfranchised under the nation’s laws (such as people of a religion or culture that is discriminated against, or women in countries that haven’t instituted women’s suffrage). These Pops are ‘outside the system’ so to speak, unable to demand reform through the regular political system of Interest Groups, and instead having to rely on other methods to put pressure on the government, but we won’t focus on those today.

Individual members of a Pop can support different Interest Groups - or stay out of politics altogether!
View attachment 735822

As mentioned above, Interest Groups have a number of ideologies which determine their views on which laws the country should or should not enact. Different Interest Groups will have different ideologies (the Landowners are significantly more conservative than the Trade Unions, for example - shocking, I know!) but these are not entirely set in stone - they can change over the course of the game and will also vary based on the current leader of the Interest Group, who comes with his or her own personal ideology and view of the world. Additionally, some Interest Groups in certain countries have unique ideologies colored by their religion and culture, such as the Confucian Scholars Interest Group in Qing China who (unsurprisingly) espouse a Confucian ideology.

Interest Groups will generally favor laws that benefit them in some way
View attachment 735821

I mentioned previously that Interest Groups have a level of Clout based on the total Political Strength of their constituent Pops. Clout is calculated by comparing their Political Strength to that of the other Interest Groups in the country - if all the Interest Groups in Belgium put together have 100k Political Strength and the Landowners have 30k, they correspondingly get 30% of the Clout in Belgium. The Interest Group’s Clout will determine their classification - Powerful, Influential or Marginalized.

Interest Groups also have a level of Approval, which is based on factors such as how much they approve of the country’s laws, whether they are in government or in opposition, and how many of their individual members are Loyalists or Radicals (more on those in a later dev diary). There are numerous other factors that can affect Approval as well, such as how you react to certain events or decisions that you take.

Together, the classification and Approval of an Interest Group determines which Traits are active for an Interest Group at any given time, and how impactful they are. There are different traits, positive and negative, with positive traits being activated when an Interest Group is happy and negative ones when they are… not so happy. If an Interest Group is Powerful, the effects of any traits they have active (good or bad) are stronger, while an Interest Group that is Marginalized cannot activate traits at all, as they are too weak to exert an effect on the whole country.

Traits are, of course, not the only way that Interest Groups can affect a country, and it’s even possible for one (or several!) angry Interest Groups to start a civil war, potentially bringing in foreign countries to support them.

Keep the aristocracy happy, and they’ll be more willing to reinvest their ‘hard-earned’ money into the country
View attachment 735820

Now, something that’s been a hotly debated topic in the community in regards to Interest Groups is Political Parties and whether they will be a part of Victoria 3 so I want to briefly touch on this. What I can tell you for now is that we are currently looking into a solution where parties can form in certain countries as constellations of Interest Groups holding a shared political platform. This is something that’s by no means fully nailed down at this point though, so don’t take this as a 100% firm commitment to how they would function. What I can tell you for sure is that we will come back to this particular topic later!

That’s all for today, though we’ll certainly be coming back to the subject of Interest Groups and looking at the different types you will encounter in later dev diaries. With July and summer vacations coming up, we’re going to take a short break from Development Diaries, but we’ll be back on July 22nd as Mikael returns to continue talking about politics in Victoria 3, on the subject of Laws.
Can some IG become socialist but leader isn't socialist or only leaders can change ideology of IG ?
 
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Probably the game need some type of caciquism, for example in Spain between 1874 to 1923, the aristocrats and capitalist force his workers to vote his party using many ways.

Most of the time the king decide unilateraly to change the goverment and later hold the elections and magicaly the voters decide to vote the party that the king put in the goverment.
This is probably one of the things that apportioning political power to wealth represents.
 
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With that picture of the Anglican Church, they have a "neutral" stance towards "no schools"?? Does this mean abolishing schools is a thing??
Was that a thing in the 1800's? Seems like a rather extreme thing for any 'interest group' to be in favor of.
Also seems odd that the church would rather no schools than public/private schools.

If abolishing all schools is a thing though, I mean you gotta do a child slave labor playthrough right? No? Just me?
I suspect that “no schools” means no state funding for schools, and “religious schools” means the government pays for the state religion to run schools. Nobody was proposing to literally outlaw all schools, like Boko Haram would in the early 21st century. There presumably must be some kind of private seminaries and trade schools to train some kinds of pops. If so, the names of the policies are misleading.
 
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Great idea, but with some caveats. Historically this approach was often just a disguise for racial discrimination. As in game discrimination in schooling can lead to the same effect, it would be surprising for supposedly "progressive" Intelligentsia to be fond of such laws.
You mean like how in the Northern United States in the late 19th century literacy tests for voting were used and promoted by the progressive intelligentsia who often were descended from Dutch and English colonial aristocracy in order to exclude illiterate Southern and Eastern European immigrants from the vote?
 
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France would have Wealth Voting under our systems (which requires Wealth 20 or higher to vote), though we could also add a lower wealth voting threshold to Census Suffrage.
Thanks for clarifiing.

Small caveat : I am not a native speaker, and translated census suffrage is a synonym of censitary, so I was under the impression you were talking about the same thing.

May I suggest another name?
We have in French a name for this kind of method : "suffrage capacitaire", when suffrage is under litteracy (or other similar "academic") conditions. I don't know how it is translated in English (if it is), but something like "capacity suffrage" could do the trick.
 
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