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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #6 - Interest Groups

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Hello once again and welcome back to yet another Victoria 3 dev diary. Where previous dev diaries have been focusing on the economy, we’re now going to switch gears to another core pillar of the Victoria series - internal politics! More specifically, we’re going to be talking about Interest Groups, which form the nucleus of Victoria 3’s political gameplay.

What then, are Interest Groups? Fundamentally, an Interest Group is a collection of pops that espouse certain political views and want to change the country to be more in line with those views. Interest Groups are drawn from a number of different templates, but will vary in their exact views from country to country, based on factors such as the local religion, which social movements have appeared in the country or the personal views of their leader.

The Landowners is an Interest Group dominated by the Aristocracy and tends to be firmly in the conservative side of politics
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As mentioned, Interest Groups are fundamentally made up of Pops - all individuals in all Pops are either members of an Interest Group or Politically Inactive, with the ratio in each based on factors such as Profession, Wealth, Literacy etc. Individuals inside Pops contribute Political Strength to their Interest Group of choice, with the amount they contribute again dependent on multiple factors, the main ones being their material Wealth and the status (and/or votes!) they are offered under the nation’s power structure.

For example, a single wealthy Aristocrat in an Oligarchy will provide hundreds or even thousands times the political strength of a poor laborer. The total Political Strength of all Pops in an Interest Group is what gives it its level of Clout - the amount of political weight it can assert on the country and the government. It’s important to note though that Pops are not unified in which Interest Groups they support - individuals within Pops are the ones who decide their Interest Group, and a single Pop can potentially have individuals supporting every Interest Group in the game (in different numbers).

Some Pops have no political strength at all, usually due to being disenfranchised under the nation’s laws (such as people of a religion or culture that is discriminated against, or women in countries that haven’t instituted women’s suffrage). These Pops are ‘outside the system’ so to speak, unable to demand reform through the regular political system of Interest Groups, and instead having to rely on other methods to put pressure on the government, but we won’t focus on those today.

Individual members of a Pop can support different Interest Groups - or stay out of politics altogether!
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As mentioned above, Interest Groups have a number of ideologies which determine their views on which laws the country should or should not enact. Different Interest Groups will have different ideologies (the Landowners are significantly more conservative than the Trade Unions, for example - shocking, I know!) but these are not entirely set in stone - they can change over the course of the game and will also vary based on the current leader of the Interest Group, who comes with his or her own personal ideology and view of the world. Additionally, some Interest Groups in certain countries have unique ideologies colored by their religion and culture, such as the Confucian Scholars Interest Group in Qing China who (unsurprisingly) espouse a Confucian ideology.

Interest Groups will generally favor laws that benefit them in some way
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I mentioned previously that Interest Groups have a level of Clout based on the total Political Strength of their constituent Pops. Clout is calculated by comparing their Political Strength to that of the other Interest Groups in the country - if all the Interest Groups in Belgium put together have 100k Political Strength and the Landowners have 30k, they correspondingly get 30% of the Clout in Belgium. The Interest Group’s Clout will determine their classification - Powerful, Influential or Marginalized.

Interest Groups also have a level of Approval, which is based on factors such as how much they approve of the country’s laws, whether they are in government or in opposition, and how many of their individual members are Loyalists or Radicals (more on those in a later dev diary). There are numerous other factors that can affect Approval as well, such as how you react to certain events or decisions that you take.

Together, the classification and Approval of an Interest Group determines which Traits are active for an Interest Group at any given time, and how impactful they are. There are different traits, positive and negative, with positive traits being activated when an Interest Group is happy and negative ones when they are… not so happy. If an Interest Group is Powerful, the effects of any traits they have active (good or bad) are stronger, while an Interest Group that is Marginalized cannot activate traits at all, as they are too weak to exert an effect on the whole country.

Traits are, of course, not the only way that Interest Groups can affect a country, and it’s even possible for one (or several!) angry Interest Groups to start a civil war, potentially bringing in foreign countries to support them.

Keep the aristocracy happy, and they’ll be more willing to reinvest their ‘hard-earned’ money into the country
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Now, something that’s been a hotly debated topic in the community in regards to Interest Groups is Political Parties and whether they will be a part of Victoria 3 so I want to briefly touch on this. What I can tell you for now is that we are currently looking into a solution where parties can form in certain countries as constellations of Interest Groups holding a shared political platform. This is something that’s by no means fully nailed down at this point though, so don’t take this as a 100% firm commitment to how they would function. What I can tell you for sure is that we will come back to this particular topic later!

That’s all for today, though we’ll certainly be coming back to the subject of Interest Groups and looking at the different types you will encounter in later dev diaries. With July and summer vacations coming up, we’re going to take a short break from Development Diaries, but we’ll be back on July 22nd as Mikael returns to continue talking about politics in Victoria 3, on the subject of Laws.
 
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Crap now I want a voting system that factors in literacy. Say pops with 42% literacy would only give 1/2 the votes as as pops of the same size but with 84% literacy.
Little teaser for you:
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Under Census Suffrage, only literate Pops are given the vote. The Intelligentsia thinks this is actually just as good as Universal Suffrage, something the Populist Trade Unions disagrees with.
 
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Based on a Discord comment I saw that most lower-class pops will be politically inactive- this was not really the case for the United States at the start date, however, as 58% of the voting-eligible population voted in the 1836 election, 80% in the 1840 election, and that number rarely fell below 70% until after the turn of the century. Will historical voter turnout numbers be used to assign pops to Interest Groups where applicable?
 
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Little teaser for you:
View attachment 736408
Under Census Suffrage, only literate Pops are given the vote. The Intelligentsia thinks this is actually just as good as Universal Suffrage, something the Populist Trade Unions disagrees with.


Well... That's not how censitary suffrage works.

1840's France had 2/3 litteracy according to military statistics but only around 300 000/400 000 active electors. There should definitely be some wealth threshold there.
 
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A little question about literacy rate and jobs, how will work the literacy cap for the jobs?

For example is you control Spain and your workers have a literacy rate of 30%, and for a mechanist job the requisite are 40%, No one will take the job?, or Will someone take the jobs and create a mechanist por with 40% literacy and the literacy rate of the workers will become lower.

If the actual solution, is that no one will take the open job of machinist, there will be a big problem with the simulation beacuse for some jobs you will pass form 1 million of peoples uncapable of taking best jobs and the next day when the 1 million pop reach de 40% literacy rate, you will get 1 million or capable pops for the new jobs.
 
Based on a Discord comment I saw that most lower-class pops will be politically inactive- this was not really the case for the United States at the start date, however, as 58% of the voting-eligible population voted in the 1836 election, 80% in the 1840 election, and that number rarely fell below 70% until after the turn of the century. Will historical voter turnout numbers be used to assign pops to Interest Groups where applicable?
Lower class political participation depends heavily on literacy.
 
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A little question about literacy rate and jobs, how will work the literacy cap for the jobs?

For example is you control Spain and your workers have a literacy rate of 30%, and for a mechanist job the requisite are 40%, No one will take the job?, or Will someone take the jobs and create a mechanist por with 40% literacy and the literacy rate of the workers will become lower.

If the actual solution, is that no one will take the open job of machinist, there will be a big problem with the simulation beacuse for some jobs you will pass form 1 million of peoples uncapable of taking best jobs and the next day when the 1 million pop reach de 40% literacy rate, you will get 1 million or capable pops for the new jobs.
This is something we'll explain in a future dev diary about Qualifications.
 
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Based on a Discord comment I saw that most lower-class pops will be politically inactive- this was not really the case for the United States at the start date, however, as 58% of the voting-eligible population voted in the 1836 election, 80% in the 1840 election, and that number rarely fell below 70% until after the turn of the century. Will historical voter turnout numbers be used to assign pops to Interest Groups where applicable?

Probably the game need some type of caciquism, for example in Spain between 1874 to 1923, the aristocrats and capitalist force his workers to vote his party using many ways.

Most of the time the king decide unilateraly to change the goverment and later hold the elections and magicaly the voters decide to vote the party that the king put in the goverment.
 
Before the American Civil War, Nothern Christians were very much anti-slavery, while Southern Christians were obviously pro-slavery. How will the devout interest group in the United States reflect the drastically polarized opinions over slavery between Northern churches and Southern churches, and more generally how will the interest group system deal with these types of cultural/regional discrepancies between non-marginalized groups?
 
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Lower class political participation depends heavily on literacy.
But will historical voting records be taken into account? It would be a shame to overlook all that hard data and just use a generalized model based on Literacy even for countries with extensive records of the populations' political participation. I'm talking about the setup at game start of course, once the game unpauses all bets are off.
 
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But will historical voting records be taken into account? It would be a shame to overlook all that hard data and just use a generalized model based on Literacy even for countries with extensive records of the populations' political participation. I'm talking about the setup at game start of course, once the game unpauses all bets are off.

USA at least in the Victoria 2 have one of the best literacy rates of the world.
 
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Before the American Civil War, Nothern Christians were very much anti-slavery, while Southern Christians were obviously pro-slavery. How will the devout interest group in the United States reflect the drastically polarized opinions over slavery between Northern churches and Southern churches, and more generally how will the interest group system deal with these types of cultural/regional discrepancies between non-marginalized groups?
I think it would make sense for Dixie clergy to identify with the Planter IG over the Devout/Pious IG in that case, as the church at the time served mainly to advance the interests of the slaveholding class. The issue however is how to ensure that happens instead of Dixie clergy being ahistorically abolitionist. The same can be said of lower-class rural Dixie pops identifying with the Planters rather than Rural Folk.
 
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I think it would make sense for Dixie clergy to identify with the Planter IG over the Devout/Pious IG in that case, as the church at the time served mainly to advance the interests of the slaveholding class. The issue however is how to ensure that happens instead of Dixie clergy being ahistorically abolitionist. The same can be said of lower-class rural Dixie pops identifying with the Planters rather than Rural Folk.
This could be done by adding an increased weight for certain pops (such as Clergy) in slave states to support the Southern Planters.
 
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This isn't how history actually works, come on we don't need RNG RPG elements in a demographic simulation.
How exactly does history "actually work"? Do you think popular charismatic leaders have zero influence on the course of history? Just read about any leadership struggle in any significant political movement and realize how close the race is every time and how different the movement would have been had someone else come on top. I mean, I get the whole "realistic simulation" thing, nobody can just waltz into American politics and turn the USA into a monarchy in a few years, but some random figure like Stalin can definitely intrigue his way on top of a party, decimating more experienced, popular and powerful candidates to become its leader and changing the course of the country in a major way.
 
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What I can tell you for now is that we are currently looking into a solution where parties can form in certain countries as constellations of Interest Groups holding a shared political platform. This is something that’s by no means fully nailed down at this point though, so don’t take this as a 100% firm commitment to how they would function. What I can tell you for sure is that we will come back to this particular topic later!​
Sounds interesting. Couldn't parties also work to divide interests groups in specific circumstances? Kind of like the Communist and Social Democratic parties ended up creatimg a rift within the workers movement? They could also function as a veichle for marginalized interest groups to gain political power. Communist and Social Democratic parties were staunch supporters of women's rights - in Finland the workers fought to get women full political rights as the first country (well, autonomous region) in Europe (maybe the world?) in order to maximize the representation of the working classes in the parlament.
 
This could be done by adding an increased weight for certain pops (such as Clergy) in slave states to support the Southern Planters.
Perhaps this effect could also be weighted based on the percentage of slaves in the state? Areas where slavery was legal but fewer people actually owned slaves like West Virginia, East Tennessee, Kentucky, Delaware, etc. had a higher proportion of Unionist support (so in game terms, did *not* support the Planter IG) than Deep Southern states like Louisiana and South Carolina.
 
I really really love this, my question would be will there be secret societies? Aka societies which contain many powerful individuals which support specific goals, like italian Unification or gemran one. Another woudl be French communist Societies, will they be just part of the IG's or will they work more internationally like the first international etc.

A second question from my side would be if IG's with the same Idiologies work together in civil wars or if it is one vs all. Like if the French communists rise up will the French Syndicalists fight againgst them or join them?
 
Good development diary.
 
I really really love this, my question would be will there be secret societies? Aka societies which contain many powerful individuals which support specific goals, like italian Unification or gemran one. Another woudl be French communist Societies, will they be just part of the IG's or will they work more internationally like the first international etc.

A second question from my side would be if IG's with the same Idiologies work together in civil wars or if it is one vs all. Like if the French communists rise up will the French Syndicalists fight againgst them or join them?
2. Not all the syndicalist are communist, in USA there are not too much communist in all the real Interest Groups.

Even the Catholic Church should don’t have exactly the same ideologies in all the nations.
 
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