• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #3 - Buildings

ThumbnailTemplate_1920x1080.png

Hello again everyone! It’s Thursday again, and that means that it’s time to talk about Buildings. Buildings are a core mechanic of Victoria 3, as it is where the Pops work to produce resources such as Goods. Buildings represent a wide range of industries, businesses and government functions, from humble subsistence farms to complex motor industries and sprawling financial districts. In this dev diary, we’re going to broadly cover the main types of buildings and their function in Victoria 3.

To talk about buildings though, I first have to mention states! States are a concept that should be generally familiar to anyone who’s played some of our other games such as Victoria II or Hearts of Iron IV - a geographic unit of varying size in which much of Victoria 3’s gameplay takes place. States are where Pops live and (more importantly for our subject matter) where Buildings are located and built.

The State of Götaland in Sweden
dd3_1.png

We will return to states more in later dev diaries, but for now let’s keep talking about Buildings!

Before we start on Buildings, something that’s important to note is that Buildings are just places where Pops can work and generally do not represent a single building - a single level of Government Administration, for example, represents the necessary buildings and infrastructure to support a certain number of Bureaucrats. Buildings always need qualified pops to work in them to yield any benefit, and an empty building is just that - empty and completely useless. This holds true even for buildings like Railroads and Ports that did not need Pops to work in them in Victoria 2.

Most buildings are directly constructed, but some (like the Subsistence Buildings below) will appear automatically based on certain conditions. When Buildings are constructed, the construction uses Pop labor and goods, and the costs involved will be subject to market forces.

But onto the different building types! First out, we have Subsistence Buildings. These are a special type of highly inefficient Buildings that cannot manually be built or destroyed, but rather will appear anywhere in the world where there is Arable Land that isn’t being used for another type of building. The vast majority of the world’s population starts the game ‘working’ in subsistence buildings as Peasants, and much of the game’s industrialization process is about finding more productive employment for your Peasants.


Peasants eke out a meager living in these Subsistence Farms, contributing little to GDP and taxes per capita
dd3_2.png

Another special type of building is Urban Centers. Like Subsistence Buildings, these are automatically created rather than built, with the level of Urban Center in a State being tied to the amount of Urbanization generated by its other buildings. Urban Centers primarily employ Shopkeepers and provide a number of important local functions that we will get into at a later point.


The Urban Center is where you’ll find most of your middle-class Shopkeepers
dd3_3.png

Next up we have Government Buildings. These are buildings that are fully funded by the state (ie, you!) and provide crucial civil services required for the smooth running of a Victorian nation. Examples include Government Administrations where Bureaucrats produce Bureaucracy for the administration of incorporated states and funding of Institutions, and Universities where Academics produce Innovation for technological progression.


Bureaucrats work in Government Administrations to provide Bureaucracy - the lifeblood of the government
dd3_4.png

The counterpart to Government Buildings is Private Industries. The vast majority of Buildings in Victoria 3 fall under this category, which includes a broad range of industries such as (non-subsistence!) farms, plantations, mines and factories. Unlike Government Buildings, Private Industries are not owned by the state but rather by Pops such as Capitalists and Aristocrats, who reap the profits they bring in and pay wages to the other Pops working there (usually at least - under certain economic systems the ownership of buildings may be radically different!).

Many of these buildings are limited by locally available resources such as Arable Land for agriculture and simply how much iron is available in the state for Iron Mines. Urban Buildings such as Factories however, are only limited by how many people you can cram into the state, simulating the more densely populated nature of cities. In short, there is no system of building ‘slots’ or anything like that, as we want limitations on buildings to function in a sensible and realistic way.


Several different types of Private Industries are shown below
dd3_5.png

Finally there are Development Buildings. These are often (but not always!) government buildings that distinguish themselves by providing vital state-level functions. A couple examples are Barracks that recruit and train soldiers from the local population and Railways that provide the Infrastructure other buildings need to bring their goods to the Market.


From left to right: Barracks, Port, Naval Bases and Railway
dd3_6.png

To finish up this dev diary I just want to mention that building up your country is meant to be more of a hands-on experience in Victoria 3, as this is absolutely core to the society-building aspect of the game and forms a major part of the game’s core loop. This naturally also means that we need to give the player the necessary tools to manage their buildings in a large empire, which may involve some form of autonomous building construction, though we haven’t yet nailed down exactly what form that would take (and whether it will involve decision making on the part of the investor class). Ultimately though, we want the player, not the AI to be the one primarily in charge of the development of their own country.

Well, there you have it. There is of course a lot in here (such as Production Methods) that will receive further explanation in the many more dev diaries we have planned, so be sure to tune in next week as I talk about Goods. See you then!
 
  • 458Like
  • 204Love
  • 24
  • 17
  • 10
  • 1Haha
Reactions:
Yes, with the caveat that it's not as simple as 'if the climate allows it' since then half the world would be covered in opium potentials. We try to strike a balance between climate, farming traditions and what feels like it could have been a potential grow site during the Victorian era.
Cool, glad to hear it. Thank you for being so responsive!
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Honestly, while AI is of course a challenge the main reason for this is that which buildings are built in your country is so fundamental to the both the economic gameplay and society building aspect of Victoria 3 that we don't think it makes sense to not let the player interact with it. We don't want the game to play itself, so to speak.

Your countries capitalists and aristocrats should definitely be able to build on their own like in Victoria 2, parallel to your own use of investment funds. If even to help reduce player micro late game when they presumably have hundreds of factories to consider building/upgrading.
Perhaps even a game option to toggle a "true laissez faire experience®" as I imagine it will be a popular thing for the modding community.
 
  • 7
  • 3Like
  • 2
Reactions:
This is probably hoping for too much detail, but will the agriculture system model agronomy at all? Will monoculture crop plantations lose yield over time? Will fertilizers appear eventually as a way to improve yields?
We do not currently have any system for losing yields over time, but the use of fertilizer is for sure a big deal in making your agriculture more efficient in Victoria 3.
 
  • 63Like
  • 15
  • 8Love
  • 1
Reactions:
With the focus on "states" (buildings managed on the state level, pops organized by states), how much is managed on the "province" level (or whatever the term is for state divisions)? Will different provinces have different populations, or are they all just grouped within the state?

I may be misinterpreting this, but it sounds a lot like the "state" concept is more analogous to the "provinces" in Victoria II. Are states smaller in Victoria 3 to account for this?
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:
Urbanization... infrastructure... innovations... lots of undefined terms, but that's understandable.

A few quick questions that will likely be addressed in a future diary:

How will access to fresh water be taken into account for states' infrastructure and/or arable land? Is it similar to development levels?
If, as one person suggested, you build up a megalopolis in the desert, will it be penalized or reflected? Is it even possible to force through that investment and encourage migration?
 
  • 4Like
Reactions:
We do not currently have any system for losing yields over time, but the use of fertilizer is for sure a big deal in making your agriculture more efficient in Victoria 3.
Awesome! Do you have to go find bat guano in caves before you invent the Haber Process? That was a cool 19th century thing I always missed in the earlier Victoria games.
 
  • 1Like
  • 1
  • 1Love
Reactions:
One thing that I'm still not able to understand is what is the GDP % in the state screen (I know what is GDP). Usually GDP is expressed in absolute economic value. Does it refer to annual growth? (24% increase is HUGE.) Does it refer to the proportion of that state over the country? (if this, I guess it can be useful and less abstract than an absolute number in pounds, but it will be constantly varying up/down depending on the expansion of your country and may be misleading -- the state GDP is growing but its regional % is decreasing because you are adding new states)

Also, cheers to all the devs. Don't let the pressure from all the forum doomers to derail your plans. Wouldn't like to be in your place, though!
 
  • 6Like
  • 2
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
Does the manual building process scale properly with country size? I can imagine myself enjoying the micro by building the optimal production chains in each state when playing as Sweden or Belgium, but I'm not so sure about the US or Russia, for example. And while I'm perfectly fine with the whole Investment Pool thing (the player ≠ the state, so it's not "unrealistic" that the player builds things for capitalists), a lot of people, including youtubers with a large following are really upset about the Laissez-faire not being the automate-my-economy button.
What I'm thinking about is a purely mechanical feature that will allow the player to set some economic priorities and then let the AI do the micro, which would be available to the player regardless of the economic system. Would it be a good idea to implement something like that?

But Vic2 forbidding the player from building any industry under Laissez-faire was really a fallacy, because in Vic2 the player cannot sell its factories to private ownership - It can either open it, subsidize it, or close it. First no one can forbid a State from building an industry in real-life if the government desires so, anyway, but that's not the point.

Second, Laissez-faire has nothing to do with who is building the companies because, unless you live in North Korea, most businesses are started by private enterprise. Even in China today, which is ostensibly under a State-run capitalism regime, this is still the case. Most industries falling under "state control" can be found in the natural resources sector - or in transformation sector linked to natural resources - that are critical to the country's self-interests, like oil, metals, steel, waterports, railway transportation, etc. These were (and still are) usually the target of laissez-faire lobbyists and actors.

Laissez-faire has more to do with who owns the companies' shares and, especially, to what extent the State can tell business-owners how to manage their businesses. So IGs that favour Laissez-faire policies would applaud the player privatizing the buildings they own (like trains... ports... mining industries... perhaps even universities) and approve anything which roll downs social or workers' right policies which increases operational costs.
 
Last edited:
  • 9Like
  • 4
  • 2
Reactions:
One thing that I'm still not able to understand is what is the GDP % in the state screen (I know what is GDP). Usually GDP is expressed in absolute economic value. Does it refer to annual growth? (24% increase is HUGE.) Does it refer to the proportion of that state over the country? (if this, I guess it can be useful and less abstract than an absolute number in pounds, but it will be constantly varying up/down depending on the expansion of your country and may be misleading -- the state GDP is growing but its regional % is decreasing because you are adding new states)

Also, cheers to all the devs. Don't let the pressure from all the forum doomers to derail your plans. Wouldn't like to be in your place, though!
The state's contribution to national GDP.
 
  • 67
  • 16Like
  • 1Love
  • 1
Reactions:
One interesting thought I had with bureaucrats now consuming paper. Since the game runs up to the 1930s, it would be interesting to have a late game tech for very early computerization that would begin to reduce the amount of paper consumed per bureaucracy but make government administration start requiring maybe electric gear or telephones/radios.
 
  • 4Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Awesome! Do you have to go find bat guano in caves before you invent the Haber Process? That was a cool 19th century thing I always missed in the earlier Victoria games.
Literally unplayable if I dont' have the option to click a button every month to manually throw bat guano into my agricultural buildings.
 
  • 8Haha
  • 1
Reactions:
Are academies always going to be government buildings? Because I know while the government should try to educate their people, their are countries (*cough* America*cough* today whose education system is still privatized.
They are private usually elsewhere too, under some foundation or another.
But taxes pay for the education. Actually almost rare for a purely public foundation and maintenance. And lacking the 3rd sector connection, students suffer a lack of say industry visits and such that the connected hobbyist board members can arrange.
 
  • 1
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Nobody's asking for a system where the player doesn't interact with buildings, just that the player actively building everything shouldn't be the default gameplay mechanic. There's inherent downsides to gameplay and plausibility to having to micro every building. The player should be more the gardener than the plant; shaping and directing the growth, sometimes with a light touch and sometimes with a heavy hand as opposed to growing every inch themselves.
Exactly. Current situation in Vic3 is that you cannot play as the USA style: you, with all the tools you have as a capitalist government, should proportionate the best conditions for the capitalists to build their industry, and although you don't control this capitalists industry directly, you will be indirectly benefited by it (your tax income increases, your technology increases, your population increases in size and quality, you can afford a bigger army, etc etc etc).

I definitely don't want Vic3 to be a game where you are tied to play as a full interventionist government where you control everything. I don't want every game to be a decision between interventionism with low taxes vs interventionism with high taxes.
 
  • 19
  • 1Like
Reactions:
While buildings aren't just going to randomly shed workers, Pops are not obliged to take jobs and can leave a building to take a higher paying job elsewhere (which is one of the ways you can actually have standard of living go up in a state, as buildings hike wages to compete for labor).
Does this mean that there will be economic expansions/recessions? (So you can exhaust your economy)

Lack of work force --> competition for labor --> rising wages --> unprofitable businesses --> goes bust/lays off employees --> there is now plenty available labor --> lower wages --> profitable business --> hires more employees -->
(and then it begins all over again)

If so i absolutely love this
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:
One interesting thought I had with bureaucrats now consuming paper. Since the game runs up to the 1930s, it would be interesting to have a late game tech for very early computerization that would begin to reduce the amount of paper consumed per bureaucracy but make government administration start requiring maybe electric gear or telephones/radios.
I like this idea and may in fact end up stealing it.
 
  • 141Love
  • 80Like
  • 13
  • 4Haha
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
Honestly, while AI is of course a challenge the main reason for this is that which buildings are built in your country is so fundamental to the both the economic gameplay and society building aspect of Victoria 3 that we don't think it makes sense to not let the player interact with it. We don't want the game to play itself, so to speak.
I think it shouldn't be so binary of a choice for either full control or no involvement regarding laissez faire, but for different policies to allow you to interact with the economy in different ways.
Laissez faire should be more about the player interacting with the capitalists to build his society, like explicitly issuing requests for certain industries for them to invest in, or being able to subsidize in a more indirect way.
In Vic2, you really had your hands completely tied with that policy, but that doesn't mean we should go 100% in the opposite direction and get full control here, there's a lot of space for nuance.
 
  • 11
Reactions:
Awesome! Do you have to go find bat guano in caves before you invent the Haber Process? That was a cool 19th century thing I always missed in the earlier Victoria games.
IIRC that was represented in previous Victoria games by Peru having a lot of sulphur-producing provinces.