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HOI4 Dev Diary - The Baltic States 1/2 and Poland 3/2

Hello and welcome to another dev diary for the Barbarossa patch! Today I’m back with you to talk about not one, not two, but three new focus trees coming with the upcoming expansion: Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia!
Baltic States Map.png


The Baltic States were in a difficult position in the build-up to world war 2; only recently liberated from Russian and German rule and less than 20 years on from a bloody struggle against both imperialist powers. In the 30s, each of the states had established authoritarian rule in fear of German and Soviet invasions, and a player hoping to survive as a Baltic state must take some extreme measures to overcome these overwhelming odds...

The Baltic States, like the Chinese, will share some branches of their focus tree while other branches will be unique to each country. This week I am going to talk about the shared branches; the industrial branch and the communist political branch.
Baltic Total Focuses.png


Starting up with the industrial branch, each Baltic state was in something of a similar situation economically; relying heavily on foreign investment and equipment for their industry and armed forces. As such, each Baltic state may decide if they wish to put their faith in the democratic nations to supply their economy, or the Axis powers to fuel the war machine.
Baltic Industry Branch.png


The other common issue facing the Baltics was that they had previously been occupied by the Soviets and Germany, and their industry was sorely lacking. So, the Balts can attract workers to their capital and begin their rearmament and develop their research sector.
Attract Workers.png


Lastly, by modernising their industry, the Baltic states may become much more self-sufficient and end their reliance on foreign powers to fuel their war machine. They may expand raw resource production in their nation, which for Estonia and Latvia means the development of their on-map resources.

Lithuania however was uniquely very reliant on its agriculture, and thus starts the game with a variant of the “Agrarian Society” national spirit which can be slowly turned into a great benefit via their industrial tree.
Natural Resources.png


Next up, each of the Baltic States had recently endured bloody struggles against the USSR, so popular support for communism was vanishingly low. A Baltic state hoping to overthrow the government and establish an independent communist state must do so through war.
Estonia civil war.png


The Balts can either choose to rely on the Soviet intervention or attempt to reconcile relations with the Baltic lower classes and try to maintain their independence while establishing communism on their own.
Restore Workers Republic.png


Once the revolution is done and your nation is communist, the player will have the option to re-establish the Lithuania-Belarus SSR. In the case you sided with the Soviets, the USSR will grant you their half of Belarus with the rest coming either through war or the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.
Lithuania Belarus Soviets.png


If you are independent however, Belarus must be acquired through adversarial means. The Baltic state must propagandise support for unification in Belarus similar to the Spanish Civil War garrison control system. When time runs out, Belarus will be released and fight a civil war; the victor will be annexed into either the victorious Baltic nation or the USSR.
Latvia Belarus decisions.png


The Baltic nation will also be able to try to convert their neighbours to communism through a propaganda war. No matter which path the Baltic player takes to establish socialism across the Baltics; they will be able to form the United Baltic SSR.
Baltic Socialist Republic.png


From there, they may use their newfound strength against Scandinavia and Poland and achieve communism across the entire Baltic Sea.
Baltic Warpath.png

That’s all for the Baltic States this week, next week I will be talking about the entirely unique political trees for each Baltic state.



Something worth bringing up here is we did make some changes to the Polish tree since we last talked about it. Firstly, I do just want to show off some of the new focus icons we got since I wrote those dev diaries and I feel like our artists have done a really great job. There are more, but I don't want to spoil all of them just yet! ;)
Poland focus icons.png


We originally planned to have Poland get an off-map reactor to essentially get them control of 1 nuke during play as an exile nation. This to reflect their role in the nuclear project, but we were already a bit on the fence on if this was too immersion breaking for the gameplay purpose, and it seemed many of you thought so too so we removed the off-map reactor and moved the focus to the industry branch.
Poland atomic bomb.png


Next, I managed to find time to implement Karl Albrecht von Habsburg as an option for monarchist Poland. He has his own branch which involves pressing the Habsburg claim on Czechoslovakia.
Karl Albrecht I.png

Habsburg Path.png


Claiming Czechoslovakia uses the same decision system as claiming Lithuania for the Commonwealth branch, and once the two nations are united, the ambition of West-Slavic unification is realised and the new nation may declare itself protector of the western Slavic peoples living in Germany.
West Slavia.png


Karl Albrecht I was known for the service he provided to the Polish army, and it’s unlikely that willingness to serve would vanish upon becoming King. So, as Soldier-King, he will gain a plethora of unique personality traits as well as becoming a field marshal.
Soldier King.png


With Hungary aligning itself with Poland’s enemies, Karl Albrecht can demand that Horthy step down in favour of Otto von Habsburg and force Hungary down their Habsburg path, diplomatically aligning them with Habsburg Poland.
Demand Habsburg Rule.png


Galicia-Lodomeria represented Habsburg rule over Poland and as such, Karl Albrecht may restore the Diet of Galicia which as well as giving the Royal Sejm national spirit, moves the nation’s capital to Krakow. While this centralises the capital between Poland and Czechoslovakia and surrounds the capital in defensible hills, the old Polish capital is also very close to the German border and may prove an easy target…
Diet of Galicia.png


I feel I should also clarify the mechanics behind electing a monarch. When the Fulfil the 5th of November Act focus is complete, candidates come forward and present themselves to be King. So while it would make little sense for the regency council to reach out and invite candidates like Pavel Bermondt-Avalov to be King, Pavel is certainly the type to try and present himself for King.
Cossack King Event.png


The final thing I'd like to mention is that during testing we noticed that it was quite a chore to scroll back and forth between the Polish tree with it being so wide, so I implemented a system where the Polish tree automatically compacts itself when you've chosen a political path.
Tree compacting.png


That’s all for this week, next week we will be covering the paths unique to each Baltic state and for now I’ll leave you with this teaser.
funny_hat_dot_png.png
 
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True, it is difficult to describe their use in hoi4 mechanics. In fact, they operated as, for example, a dozen independent reconnaissance tank companies (13 TKS each). Maybe show these companies as support recon tank companies for other units?
Another option- put them in Polands stockpile so that players can then decide to field them. Better than nothing, and a simpler fix.
 
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Just can wait to play 1.11 !! And I wonder will there be more re-rework for old DLCs (like Chinese Factions and TfV)? as there is just huge changes in the new patch and the old things seemed to be a little bit dull when compared to the newly updated contents. Also I look forward to seeing a Germany re-re-rework .
 
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@Meka66 Wonderful work! Can't wait for next week's Dev Diary!

Off-topic question about state reworks, and though I've asked this before in a HOI4 DD, will West Virginia ever be added as a state in the US in the game? There is a bit of reason behind adding it, but I just wanna see if it was a thought/consideration among the content designers (if y'all also decide what states are added to the game).
 
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Poland still had hundreds of light tanks, regardless of their organization. The "Tanks of the Polish Armoured Forces" wiki article lists the number of polish tanks in 1939 as 102 FT17, 140 7TP(plus a few 9TP), 50 R35s 38 Vickers Es. and 500 TKS. This is about 200 modern tanks and hundreds of outdated ones. The articles states over 800 armored vehicles in all. Of course this number could be reduced for balance, but its still too much to just flat ignore in hoi4, especially since yugoslavia was gven 60 great war tanks in their OOB. Even in 1936 Poland. would still posses the FTs, a number of TKS, and the technology for the 7TP.

The article states the TKS were attached to infantry and cavalry divisions, while the others were put in 2 armored brigades and 4 independant battalions. - so that solves where to put them. either tack them on as an additional battalion to an infantry template, or add them as armored recon for the whole army. the rest of tanks, mostly the modern ones, would fit nicely into 2 or 3 tank divisions containing a handful of battalions plus some infantry. (to paraphrase the dev note in the yugo OOB, tanks with no infantry are deathtraps. they'll end up with 0 org)

Poland in hoi4 starting with no armor in 1936 and just two light tank battalions in 1939 is, in my opinion, a huge mussed opportunity. I hope this information helps you guys.

A lot of things are wrong in this game. Portugal has 24 airplanes on 1936 and 50 on 1939, yet Portugal had more than 100 military aircraft easily on either date (not even including trainer aircraft). Similarly, it had over 20 military war vessels, yet in-game you only have 6 destroyers and 3 submarines (i am surprised they managed to get the proper number of submarines because they didn't for the destroyers).

5 infantry divisions (which were part of the permanent army) alone had 20.000 men each, yet in-game Portugal doesn't even have 70k men on the field, lol. Overall Portugal had an army bigger than the USA before ww2 started, yet in-game USA got way more men on any start date. Balance issues? Who knows.

I only mentioned Portugal because it's where I am from so I know the numbers easily, but I have seen similar issues across other countries, and not always the same criteria being followed for everyone. Specially regarding tech at the start of any game on any date. Portugal can build submarines, but it never built any (except for prototypes that never went anywhere). On the other hand, it did build cruisers on its Arsenal but they dont even start with the most basic of techs regarding cruisers. In comparison, certain countries like Greece (which had a far weaker economy than Portugal) actually have Battleship tech, when in fact all of their Battleships were purchased and produced on foreign soil. It is... a biased system.
 
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Hello and welcome to another dev diary for the Barbarossa patch! Today I’m back with you to talk about not one, not two, but three new focus trees coming with the upcoming expansion: Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia!
View attachment 717411

The Baltic States were in a difficult position in the build-up to world war 2; only recently liberated from Russian and German rule and less than 20 years on from a bloody struggle against both imperialist powers. In the 30s, each of the states had established authoritarian rule in fear of German and Soviet invasions, and a player hoping to survive as a Baltic state must take some extreme measures to overcome these overwhelming odds...

The Baltic States, like the Chinese, will share some branches of their focus tree while other branches will be unique to each country. This week I am going to talk about the shared branches; the industrial branch and the communist political branch.
View attachment 717412

Starting up with the industrial branch, each Baltic state was in something of a similar situation economically; relying heavily on foreign investment and equipment for their industry and armed forces. As such, each Baltic state may decide if they wish to put their faith in the democratic nations to supply their economy, or the Axis powers to fuel the war machine.
View attachment 717413

The other common issue facing the Baltics was that they had previously been occupied by the Soviets and Germany, and their industry was sorely lacking. So, the Balts can attract workers to their capital and begin their rearmament and develop their research sector.
View attachment 717414

Lastly, by modernising their industry, the Baltic states may become much more self-sufficient and end their reliance on foreign powers to fuel their war machine. They may expand raw resource production in their nation, which for Estonia and Latvia means the development of their on-map resources.

Lithuania however was uniquely very reliant on its agriculture, and thus starts the game with a variant of the “Agrarian Society” national spirit which can be slowly turned into a great benefit via their industrial tree.View attachment 717420

Next up, each of the Baltic States had recently endured bloody struggles against the USSR, so popular support for communism was vanishingly low. A Baltic state hoping to overthrow the government and establish an independent communist state must do so through war.
View attachment 717422

The Balts can either choose to rely on the Soviet intervention or attempt to reconcile relations with the Baltic lower classes and try to maintain their independence while establishing communism on their own.
View attachment 717423

Once the revolution is done and your nation is communist, the player will have the option to re-establish the Lithuania-Belarus SSR. In the case you sided with the Soviets, the USSR will grant you their half of Belarus with the rest coming either through war or the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.
View attachment 717424

If you are independent however, Belarus must be acquired through adversarial means. The Baltic state must propagandise support for unification in Belarus similar to the Spanish Civil War garrison control system. When time runs out, Belarus will be released and fight a civil war; the victor will be annexed into either the victorious Baltic nation or the USSR.
View attachment 717425

The Baltic nation will also be able to try to convert their neighbours to communism through a propaganda war. No matter which path the Baltic player takes to establish socialism across the Baltics; they will be able to form the United Baltic SSR.
View attachment 717427

From there, they may use their newfound strength against Scandinavia and Poland and achieve communism across the entire Baltic Sea.
View attachment 717426
That’s all for the Baltic States this week, next week I will be talking about the entirely unique political trees for each Baltic state.



Something worth bringing up here is we did make some changes to the Polish tree since we last talked about it. Firstly, I do just want to show off some of the new focus icons we got since I wrote those dev diaries and I feel like our artists have done a really great job. There are more, but I don't want to spoil all of them just yet! ;)
View attachment 717428

We originally planned to have Poland get an off-map reactor to essentially get them control of 1 nuke during play as an exile nation. This to reflect their role in the nuclear project, but we were already a bit on the fence on if this was too immersion breaking for the gameplay purpose, and it seemed many of you thought so too so we removed the off-map reactor and moved the focus to the industry branch.
View attachment 717429

Next, I managed to find time to implement Karl Albrecht von Habsburg as an option for monarchist Poland. He has his own branch which involves pressing the Habsburg claim on Czechoslovakia.
View attachment 717430
View attachment 717436

Claiming Czechoslovakia uses the same decision system as claiming Lithuania for the Commonwealth branch, and once the two nations are united, the ambition of West-Slavic unification is realised and the new nation may declare itself protector of the western Slavic peoples living in Germany.
View attachment 717431

Karl Albrecht I was known for the service he provided to the Polish army, and it’s unlikely that willingness to serve would vanish upon becoming King. So, as Soldier-King, he will gain a plethora of unique personality traits as well as becoming a field marshal.
View attachment 717432

With Hungary aligning itself with Poland’s enemies, Karl Albrecht can demand that Horthy step down in favour of Otto von Habsburg and force Hungary down their Habsburg path, diplomatically aligning them with Habsburg Poland.
View attachment 717433

Galicia-Lodomeria represented Habsburg rule over Poland and as such, Karl Albrecht may restore the Diet of Galicia which as well as giving the Royal Sejm national spirit, moves the nation’s capital to Krakow. While this centralises the capital between Poland and Czechoslovakia and surrounds the capital in defensible hills, the old Polish capital is also very close to the German border and may prove an easy target…
View attachment 717434

I feel I should also clarify the mechanics behind electing a monarch. When the Fulfil the 5th of November Act focus is complete, candidates come forward and present themselves to be King. So while it would make little sense for the regency council to reach out and invite candidates like Pavel Bermondt-Avalov to be King, Pavel is certainly the type to try and present himself for King.
View attachment 717435

The final thing I'd like to mention is that during testing we noticed that it was quite a chore to scroll back and forth between the Polish tree with it being so wide, so I implemented a system where the Polish tree automatically compacts itself when you've chosen a political path.
View attachment 717437

That’s all for this week, next week we will be covering the paths unique to each Baltic state and for now I’ll leave you with this teaser.
View attachment 717449
What is the point
 
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Nah Galicia is not given autonomy by this focus, it merely re-establishes the Polish government in Krakow as the Habsburgs had before.

I can confirm there is no Galicia-Lodomeria releasable.
Oh, so that's what that focus means. Thanks for clarifying. And thanks for not planning to make a releasable Galicia-Lodomeria as Poland as I would probably be very grumbly about that xD

Although moving Poland's capital from Warsaw to Krakow... it could be doable but it might create at least a little bit of opposition, if you ask me. Some would definitely be applauding such a decision but I'm totally seeing many people becoming unhappy that the capital of their country is moved southwards. Not to mention the citizens of Warsaw feeling that they're being robbed off their city's history. Like I said, I think it's a realistically doable move but it shouldn't come without at least minor consequences (a stability hit maybe?).
 
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Happy Eid, all muslim forum members! Now that i've fully energized, it's time to my own opinion regarding this devdiary. Baltic first, of course!
The Baltic States, like the Chinese, will share some branches of their focus tree while other branches will be unique to each country. This week I am going to talk about the shared branches; the industrial branch and the communist political branch.
Oh shoot, i thought that the shared branch is on Armed Forces and Baltic Unity, but we got sort of the latter through the shared communism branch, and overall we got much more unique content for the Baltics. Thanks!
Lastly, by modernising their industry, the Baltic states may become much more self-sufficient and end their reliance on foreign powers to fuel their war machine. They may expand raw resource production in their nation, which for Estonia and Latvia means the development of their on-map resources.
Nice, heterogeneity inside the shared branch is always welcomed.
Next up, each of the Baltic States had recently endured bloody struggles against the USSR, so popular support for communism was vanishingly low. A Baltic state hoping to overthrow the government and establish an independent communist state must do so through war.
Estonia civil war.png
Meka, i wanna ask. We can turn the anti-Stalinist communist away during the Great Purge, right? Would other anti-Stalinists take his place later and we can stay independent, or we would be locked into Stalin's puppet when we decided to go communist after the Purge?
Yeah the original plan was to give them the warlord treatment and just have one mega tree for all of them to share, but when it came time to research them, they were politically distinct enough that making an entirely shared tree didn't make much sense. So we did this sort of hybrid of shared and unique that should be fun to play around with!
Makes sense. Again, thanks for generally giving the Baltics approximately 75% unique contents.
Yeah, the Seek Axis Investments thing tries to look for an actual fascist power if Germany has gone Kaiser or Democratic.
Aww, would love to keep them strictly German-related, or even turn to Sweden, Poland, or France. Italy is too far away to be of actually influencing the Baltics.
 
Wew, thought you would change Polish contents in the Bag of Tricks Devdiary, but it's nice to have this so early.
We originally planned to have Poland get an off-map reactor to essentially get them control of 1 nuke during play as an exile nation. This to reflect their role in the nuclear project, but we were already a bit on the fence on if this was too immersion breaking for the gameplay purpose, and it seemed many of you thought so too so we removed the off-map reactor and moved the focus to the industry branch.
Poland atomic bomb.png
Well, i can accept this, finally a more grounded conclusion about the nuclear stuff.
If you manage to survive against Germany long enough to research and build reactors, go ahead and nuke your way to Berlin ;)
Oh i will.
Next, I managed to find time to implement Karl Albrecht von Habsburg as an option for monarchist Poland. He has his own branch which involves pressing the Habsburg claim on Czechoslovakia.
Karl Albrecht I.png

Habsburg Path.png
OH YES! This is what i'm talking about!

Claiming Czechoslovakia uses the same decision system as claiming Lithuania for the Commonwealth branch, and once the two nations are united, the ambition of West-Slavic unification is realised and the new nation may declare itself protector of the western Slavic peoples living in Germany.
West Slavia.png
Two ways of forming West Slavic Union, niceeeeee!!!!
I feel I should also clarify the mechanics behind electing a monarch. When the Fulfil the 5th of November Act focus is complete, candidates come forward and present themselves to be King. So while it would make little sense for the regency council to reach out and invite candidates like Pavel Bermondt-Avalov to be King, Pavel is certainly the type to try and present himself for King.
Cossack King Event.png
"Pavel what now?" indeed. Thought Michael is already memetic enough..... Would much prefer this man to be one of the White Generals in the Soviet reworked contents.
Here is the full poland tree (sorry for rushjob photoshop :D)
poland_big.jpg
Hmm, "Seek an alliance with the Kaiser" focus now is a prerequisite for the below three foci.... Why, though?

Also, still no Prometheism contents, duh.... I'll be alright if Japan/China didn't enter Intermarium, but at least make some flag events to secure their future involvement in the Prometheist Crusade against Russia. Thanks.

Lastly, about the Memepath Michael, have you implement my suggestion about his kingdom from my opinion in 2/2 Poland?
Wettin

Wettin-led Monarchist PLC is really good (2nd best), appreciate it, @Meka66! Maybe you can add a foci to pressure Carol II to abdicate and let Michael to be the Romanian king, perhaps? Combined with the Intermarium branch, a Monarchist Intermarium of Poland, Austria-Hungary, and Romania can create an interesting playthrough. Especially if Kaiser Wilhelm and Vittorio Emanuele can join it too through the "Alliance with the Kaiser" and "Italian Alliance" focus.

Michael II

Instead of creating a Visegrad-lite superblock, the better choice is to make Hungary (with Southern Slovakia) and Romania as Polish (with the rest of Slovakia) puppet states (integrated puppet for TfV owners). The Baltics can be allied with the Intermarium-related decisions, so i'm satisified with that too. If you want to be a little wacky (as if this path is already wacky enough), as Friedrich can help Michael rise up in Romania, Michael can make Friedrich rule the Unified Baltic Duchy and Otto rule the Kingdom of Hungary.

The bloc would be looked like this:
20210423191019_1.jpg
You're going to be very disappointed when I release part 25 of my Poland changes.
Ayy don't be that silly, just include this in the Bag of Tricks devdiaries.
Thank you for fixing Poland!
Game literally playable again.
Much more playable, indeed.
He cannot. The Polish monarchy choices are mutually exclusive because you're kind of relying on national identity as well as royal claims. It would be difficult to convince both Lithuania and Czechoslovakia that your nation is simultaneously the Commonwealth, West Slavia, and Poland-Romania. You must pick one only and commit to it.
Surprisingly grounded, good one.
 
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awesome to see karl albrecht in, hope zapadoslavia will come in the future too
See, as a Pole, I have a small problem with the name "Zapadoslavia". It worked well for Yugoslavia because all nations that made up that country used the word "yug" (or rather "jug"), which means "south", in their languages.

In the case of Zapadoslavia ("zapad" means "west" in case someone hasn't figured it out), however, that wouldn't be true. Polish language doesn't use the old slavic names for cardinal directions anymore and so there's no longer such a word as "zapad" in Polish (just like there's no "jug"). Poles call west "zachód".

If you're creating a pan-nationalistic country whose name is supposed to unite all nations within it, you should probably use a word that actually exists in all the languages of the nations you're trying to unite. That is my opinion. Unless you're also planning to reform the Polish language in such a way as to bring back the old slavic names for cardinal directions, but that would just be inpractical.
 
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I understand that the USSR tree will be shown much later on Paradox Con. But it must be shown as early as possible, the example of Poland is a clear proof. The sooner the USSR Tree is shown, the more time it will take to correct.
 
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I hope Focuses in this DLC/Uptade don't get super inflated, giving crazy buffs at the end (Full crusade against democrasy or prussia of the balkans) or the countries aren't usselss at the start.
 
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Another option- put them in Polands stockpile so that players can then decide to field them. Better than nothing, and a simpler fix.

Here we are talking about the 1939 scenario. I agree that it is better than nothing, but such a solution makes it difficult to use it against the Germans or the Soviets because the war is at the gates.


Another argument for placing at least the Warsaw Armored-Motorized Brigade as the hoi4 division is the battle of Tomaszów Lubelski, where we can actually talk about a Polish armored strike with the strength of about 80 tanks.


As for the colonies of Poland, I regret the shallowing of the topic. I have already written about it here and here. The case is more complicated.
Additionally, Liberia is included in the tree (we don't know how). I still hope that it will be minimally included in the historical path because a bit happened there (possibly you can return to the topic in the Brazil/Liberia focus tree xDD).
 
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For the Lithuania-Belarus SR, how does it work? I imagine it'd be very frustrating for a Soviet player to suddenly lose that much land without a say in the matter but that making a Lithuania player have to RNG for the land would be equally so.
 
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I applaud You for this dev diary and your ability to listen to people (although I am a bit ashamed about the way some of them voiced their opinion). Looks fun. However, I would expect some tweaks to the German focus tree as main antagonist in Barbarossa (face it, Nazis are evil...if not convinced: they wear SKULLS on their uniform! Ask Monty Python!)
That was Mitchell and Webb.
 
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For the Lithuania-Belarus SR, how does it work? I imagine it'd be very frustrating for a Soviet player to suddenly lose that much land without a say in the matter but that making a Lithuania player have to RNG for the land would be equally so.
There would be an option from the Soviets whether to give Belarus to the Baltic communists or not. Also, Soviets can counter-influence Belarus too when the Baltic communists propagate Belarus pro-Baltic movements. Whoever won the Belarus civil war gets annexed by their supporter.

@fr-rein, hope your Ukrainian stuffs would come out in the Soviet contents. Looks like the Belarus-related decision categories are a foreshadowing to it.
 
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Not gonna lie, a welcome flavour change. This could be nice :)
P.S. Please do not rename Lwów into Lviv unless you're renaming all of the states like Nowogródek to Navahrudak and Wino to Vilnius (which you've actually changed to Wilno in the past and even added an event for LT to revert for stability gain (nice)). It will really take away from the Polish communities that were still the majority living in those areas, including me and my family, friends and loved ones. Cheers. "Nie rzucim ziemi skąd nasz ród."
 
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For the Lithuania-Belarus SR, how does it work? I imagine it'd be very frustrating for a Soviet player to suddenly lose that much land without a say in the matter but that making a Lithuania player have to RNG for the land would be equally so.
Diplomacy. You don't "give away" land, you never do. You trade it for influence, alliances, support or simply because managing the territory is too much of a hassle due to partisans, for example. If you talk to the USSR player in game, it actually adds a bit of a roleplay aspect if both are players. Do you give away factories now for a strong ally later? Or maybe you can't trust the Lithuanians? (I believe the latter being the historical option, as the Lithuanian-Belarusian SR would be a mid-sized state that could cause problems if left unchecked. Bigger states=more resources needed to keep them in check, especially if the state is costal.