5 religious tenets instead of 3 would be much better

[pengoyo]

Things aren't unique anymore when you've already done them a hundred times. Consider EU4s idea groups, sure you may choose slightly different ones or take them in different orders depending on which country you're playing as (at least I do anyway) but with 8 choices by the end of the game you're going to end up with a lot of overlap.

The more choices you have, the more overlap they'll be. The only way to mitigate that is to have more worthwhile choices. EU4 definitely lacks that in its idea groups and I'd argue CK3's tenets lack that too. I'd say it's not up to how Paradox distribute the tenets, rather how many of them are actually worthwhile and desirable choices. The more tenets you have per religion the more available ones that are actually wanted will be needed and right now how many are really that worthwhile?

Hence why I mentioned synergies need to be more prevalent and prominent as they make unique combinations pop more.


Plus I'm all for the restructuring tenets as others have proposed (like 2 major + 3 minor, making more into doctrines, and/or rebalancing them) as I think there are other problems with the current system. But my point was that going from 3 to 5 can either make faiths more samey or more unique, it all comes down to how paradox actually gives out the tenets (with number of faiths, not tenet slots being the more important factor for how easy it is for Paradox to give faiths unique tenets).

But plenty of faiths are suffering from missing tenets that were an important part of that faith, so something needs to be done. This is why I think increasing at this time is good, but wouldn't want to increase beyond 5, as then it's getting into minor aspects of each faith.

So to flip your argument on you, if increasing tenets makes each faith less unique, why not reduce the number of tenets and go down to 1 or 2 tenets? Catholicism can go down to only having armed pilgramiges (more unique now that it doesn't need to share monasticism or communion with any other faith).

Now I'm not saying you are necessarily arguing for that; the point being that there is an optimal number of tenets such that faiths can get access to enough mechanics to properly flesh out each faith without faiths just having lots of the same tenets. Personally I think 4 is that sweet spot. But if we are choosing between 5 and 3, I think 5 works better than 3 (especially if combined with other suggestions like 2 major + 3 minor tenets).

 

[Kanaric]

I don't think I agree, I think more tenets that are restricted to certain religions (or have other doctrine-based requirements) would be good.

But, given the current situation, Great Holy Wars in particular should probably be easier to get. It's a huge game mechanic that you can rightly feel like you're missing out on if you don't "get it". I do feel like if there was more variety in unique/mutually exclusive options, however, it might not feel this way.

Ok. I'll download the mod that opens them up then lol.

Like IDK how that is good it makes no sense. Like a one off pagan religion in Zun that you really can't even play can only take sun worship but I can't do that with Hellenic to have a "Sol Invictus" religion? Why is only one pagan religion allowed to take cleanliness tenet? Especially when other religions find that important?

Sure you can have that if you want. I'll take the more open version that is more fun.

It makes sense for some things but something as generic as "Sun worship" should be open. The problem here is the religions and heresies are too generic, you don't solve that by making things more restrictive lmfao.


It's also annoying and weird that you can only do "warmongering" religions to get great holy wars. Like why can't a Buddhist heretec religion with a religious head have to totally abandon pacifism and be like Klingons from Star Trek to take back holy sites from Muslims in a crusade? Instead Armed Pilgrimages makes perfect sense for that but I can't take it.

The first thing I was going to do when I bought this after reading pre-release DDs was making a sun worshiping "Kordofan" religion. It was really strange and weird that I couldn't do that given the advertised features. This is a GSG, not a board game. But I guess Atenism and Sol Invictus is "totally unrealistic". Those things that historically happened are just FAR more absurd than reforming Norse religion.

 

[Dan the cynical barbarian]

Ok. I'll download the mod that opens them up then lol.

Like IDK how that is good it makes no sense. Like a one off pagan religion in Zun that you really can't even play can only take sun worship but I can't do that with Hellenic to have a "Sol Invictus" religion? Why is only one pagan religion allowed to take cleanliness tenet? Especially when other religions find that important?

Sure you can have that if you want. I'll take the more open version that is more fun.

It makes sense for some things but something as generic as "Sun worship" should be open. The problem here is the religions and heresies are too generic, you don't solve that by making things more restrictive lmfao.


It's also annoying and weird that you can only do "warmongering" religions to get great holy wars. Like why can't a Buddhist heretec religion with a religious head have to totally abandon pacifism and be like Klingons from Star Trek to take back holy sites from Muslims in a crusade? Instead Armed Pilgrimages makes perfect sense for that but I can't take it.

The first thing I was going to do when I bought this after reading pre-release DDs was making a sun worshiping "Kordofan" religion. It was really strange and weird that I couldn't do that given the advertised features. This is a GSG, not a board game. But I guess Atenism and Sol Invictus is "totally unrealistic". Those things that historically happened are just FAR more absurd than reforming Norse religion.

As far as I understand the whole inspiration for Religious reform events and ideas was how Bön reformed and survived irl and the failed attempted at reform done by Lithuania and Rus at points in history

 

[Rubidium]

As far as I understand the whole inspiration for Religious reform events and ideas was how Bön reformed and survived irl and the failed attempted at reform done by Lithuania and Rus at points in history

No, the religion reform idea was introduced into CK2 so that you could continue to play as Norse (and to a lesser extent, other) pagans without having to convert. It's a strictly alt-history idea.

I don't think the Bon were even on the map when it was introduced.

 

[Dan the cynical barbarian]

No, the religion reform idea was introduced into CK2 so that you could continue to play as Norse (and to a lesser extent, other) pagans without having to convert. It's a strictly alt-history idea.

I don't think the Bon were even on the map when it was introduced.

I have vague memory of the Devs back when the Old Gods was in development explaining what was the inspirations for such systems but i might be misremembering

 

[Hertyeer]

Ok. I'll download the mod that opens them up then lol.

Like IDK how that is good it makes no sense. Like a one off pagan religion in Zun that you really can't even play can only take sun worship but I can't do that with Hellenic to have a "Sol Invictus" religion? Why is only one pagan religion allowed to take cleanliness tenet? Especially when other religions find that important?

Sure you can have that if you want. I'll take the more open version that is more fun.

It makes sense for some things but something as generic as "Sun worship" should be open. The problem here is the religions and heresies are too generic, you don't solve that by making things more restrictive lmfao.


It's also annoying and weird that you can only do "warmongering" religions to get great holy wars. Like why can't a Buddhist heretec religion with a religious head have to totally abandon pacifism and be like Klingons from Star Trek to take back holy sites from Muslims in a crusade? Instead Armed Pilgrimages makes perfect sense for that but I can't take it.

The first thing I was going to do when I bought this after reading pre-release DDs was making a sun worshiping "Kordofan" religion. It was really strange and weird that I couldn't do that given the advertised features. This is a GSG, not a board game. But I guess Atenism and Sol Invictus is "totally unrealistic". Those things that historically happened are just FAR more absurd than reforming Norse religion.

CK3 pagan reformations are a big step back from CK2 as well, a lot less customizable.