• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Well sorry I didn't read everything, did they announced something yet, any clues, tweety tweets that I should catch up on? And we all know they supposed to reveal V3 some time ago already right? :D
Only thing we know is they will announce a PDS game on the 21st (or 22nd or 23rd), and we all know it'll be Sengoku 2.
 
  • 4Haha
  • 1
Reactions:
Only thing we know is they will announce a PDS game on the 21st (or 22nd or 23rd), and we all know it'll be Sengoku 2.

Nah. It's gonna be Runemaster 2, baby!
 
  • 1
Reactions:
We weren't really talking about not knowing what the entire world looks like right off the bat. It was about not understanding the historical and geographic context you find yourself in in your home region. If you start in a pre-established home region you should have some idea of the history of the area and peoples' relationships with one another in that area.

And my point still stands right? opening up the map in your vicinity (say continent) and giving some information about government form, civilisation, religion, alignment, alliances or whatever is going to be important would exactly solve your issue.

I honestly don't see how this is in any way different compared to me (and many others) starting a nation in EU4 somewhere in let's say India. Basically the only thing I allready understand about the historical and geographic context of that starting area is the shape of the continent, that there are probably some muslim rulers in the north east and the rest is hindu or bhudist. That's all information that can be easily taken care off to be shown also in a random fantasy setting.

I just don't see how allowing also to start as larger nations is robbing anyone from the exploration phase. The Ottomans in EU4 do not have more knowledge of the world outside of the vicinity then the OPM's in the neighbourhoud and while we know how east asia, Africa and the Americas look I'd say that an ottoman's game would have been more fun when those areas would be a blank.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
that there are probably some muslim rulers in the north east and the rest is hindu or bhudist.
I guess you proved your point by not getting muslim rulers being located all throughout northern india right.

I mean you can play a historical game low-info if you want, but having the context makes everything infinitely more engaging imo.

I don't know why you're talking to me about the exploration phase as I said nothing about that, but if it starts in a setup like EU4 there simply isn't an exploration phase as the exploration phase is something you see as the first phase of a 4X. It's not something you have to do or even think about in EU4. Unless you need to find somewhere for a specific purpose it doesn't exist. To be clear you can explore in EU4, but it is not core to the game in the same way it is in 4X where everyone HAS to explore or they're boned. I guess all that means is this hypothetical game would categorically not be a 4X and would have to more resemble EU4.
 
Last edited:
  • 1
Reactions:
A low-fantasy GSG could be done with a limited "known" area around you, with decreasing information the further away you look. There could be 3 or so "levels" of information about provinces and countries, with a decreasing initial level of knowledge over distance or hostile border.

Neighboring provinces would be clearly known (level 3), and show fairly detailed information, becoming less known beyond that (level 2 for the next friendly province or two, fading to level 1 at some distance). All neighboring countries' distant borders would likely be at least marginally or partially known (perhaps with the possibility of a few unknown provinces), and you'd probably know at least the names of any major countries on the other side of their border, with a random chance of knowing any smaller one. Distant major countries would probably be "known" only as a name and general direction, which could be done by only displaying one random province of that country and giving it the name of the country and no other info, so you'd know where to find it, but not much else about it.

Consider Europe's knowledge of China in the Dark Ages. They knew "roughly" where it was (the route to it had been recorded to some limited extent, but China's actual position on a map was more than a bit vague), and it was possible to trade on a very limited basis over the immense distances, but its borders were unknown, and most other information about it was more legend than fact.

You don't need to present the entire map as "fact", only your immediate surroundings and a few scattered bits and pieces which would be significant enough to have drawn attention. Exploration would clarify the vague information and expand your area of knowledge, while occasionally making another distant province or country "heard of", rather than "known".

It SHOULDN'T behave too much like a standard "4X" game, because it wouldn't be one, more like a hybrid of one.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:
It will rebranded as Bismarck 3 : A Victoria Game
 
Obviously it's going to be Bear Economy 3: Revenge of the Romans
 
  • 3
  • 1
Reactions:
Last edited:
  • 1
Reactions:
That you for sharing that article i hadn't seen. But it is a possible game to be announced, however unlikely almost everybody thinks it is.

I think for a "Sengoku 2" game it would be better to just broaden the scope to all of East Asia and expanding the timeline to cover Crusader Kings as well as the Sengoku Period.

Basically transforming Sengoku into an Crusader Kings in East Asia.

Assuming they're not going to add East Asia to Crusader Kings III (which they might).
 
  • 4
Reactions:
I think for a "Sengoku 2" game it would be better to just broaden the scope to all of East Asia and expanding the timeline to cover Crusader Kings as well as the Sengoku Period.

Basically transforming Sengoku into an Crusader Kings in East Asia.

Assuming they're not going to add East Asia to Crusader Kings III (which they might).
Wasn't Sengoku a prototype or proof of concept for CK2 in the first place?
Don't know if it's true, but I've head that more than once.
 
  • 2
Reactions:
Wasn't Sengoku a prototype or proof of concept for CK2 in the first place?
Don't know if it's true, but I've head that more than once.

Not officially because Paradox doesn't have and has never had an official policy of doing such.


But unofficially? Yes. But that doesn't preclude Paradox from making a sequel of it. There is merit in a Sengoku 2.
 
  • 2
Reactions:
Not officially because Paradox doesn't have and has never had an official policy of doing such.


But unofficially? Yes. But that doesn't preclude Paradox from making a sequel of it. There is merit in a Sengoku 2.
Ah yes, I meant it unofficially of course.
Well, I'm not going to say there's no merit at all, but I feel CK3 makes a Sengoku 2 sort of redundant design-wise.
Besides time and place, their gameplay vision itself are almost identical.

Like you, I'd much rather they did an East Asia expansion.
Or maybe even a focused DLC that limits the map to only Sengoku Japan, essentially making Sengoku 2 a CK3 expansion.
Though of course I much prefer the first option, after CK3 sorts the depth of areas it already covers, I'd really love a map expansion.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Like you, I'd much rather they did an East Asia expansion.

I never said I was for or against the idea. I'm quite neutral towards the idea.
Well, I'm not going to say there's no merit at all, but I feel CK3 makes a Sengoku 2 sort of redundant design-wise.

I disagree here. There's nothing that says Sengoku 2 couldn't branch off and become its own thing design-wise. The East Asian setting is sufficiently different enough to Europe and the Near East that it would likely benefit from being a separate game and not being constrained by the mechanics of CKIII. That was one of the arguments against a China expansion in CKII.

Besides, how many Paradox fans are also Weebs? They'd totally buy into a Japanese themed game hook, line, and sinker.
Or maybe even a focused DLC that limits the map to only Sengoku Japan, essentially making Sengoku 2 a CK3 expansion.

That's not really Paradox's thing.
 
  • 2
Reactions:
I think for a "Sengoku 2" game it would be better to just broaden the scope to all of East Asia and expanding the timeline to cover Crusader Kings as well as the Sengoku Period.

Basically transforming Sengoku into an Crusader Kings in East Asia.

Assuming they're not going to add East Asia to Crusader Kings III (which they might).
Definitely. I would love a CK-like game in East Asia.

My worry about making it merged into CKIII is a problem of balance (Chinese nations already using black powder way earlier than Europe) and the risk of modelling Asian society in a European way...
 
  • 4
Reactions: