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Greetings all,

My part of today’s developer diary focuses on further changes coming to the population system in 2.0.

The changes to civilization value mentioned previously opened up further opportunities for a rethink on population growth. In 1.5 and before, cities were largely sustained by prolonged inwards migration. While this is not something I necessarily want to change, we’ll be splitting up where population growth comes from, with the dual intentions of letting cities stand their own ground when growing pops, and allowing for more engagement in how you promote growth in owned territory.

Firstly, base pop growth, and pop growth from stability have been reduced significantly.

Secondly, civilization value now contributes to population growth, simulating an increased growth rate in developed metropoles.

Thirdly, the population growth rate from stored food has been slightly reduced, however, the food consumption of tribesmen has been reduced, making it easier to boost growth in undeveloped tribal territories without also affecting the inherently low population capacity of said land.

Lastly, various sources of population growth have been slightly reduced to accommodate the new increases from civilization value.

What does this achieve?

Overall, there should be slightly less global growth in the average game, but still enough control to make long-term decisions valid, and for local factors to have much more of an impact on the fabric of the game.

100.png

These graphs show the 2.0 build prior to population changes, and post population changes. As you can see, the newer system (bottom) results in less total population over time, with a marginally nerfed warm period event being one of the main factors.

Games in 1.5 had a tendency to balloon in population density towards the endgame, due in part to the availability of inventions and modifiers affecting pop growth. With population now being intrinsically related to army sizes, we felt it was time to return to a more realistic* growth pattern that still allows the player to manipulate the world situation to their advantage.

Related to these changes, domestic migration has been slowed down slightly, and settlement production buildings (with the exception of the Legation) now reduce outward pop migration to almost 0 (unless there are extenuating circumstances such as occupation or overpopulation).

*The academic consensus appears to be that the usual global increase in population entered a bit of a plateau at around the time Imperator is set, to around the time it ends.

Research Efficiency

Somewhat tangentially to population changes, we’re also going to be gating the maximum research efficiency of nations. The base maximum research efficiency of nations will now begin at 125%. This value can be relatively easy to achieve for smaller nations, and should still offset technological advancement positively if focused upon, however, a great disparity in tech between larger empires and city-states was simply too easy to achieve.

We still want technology to be a valid choice in nation-building, however, and numerous nodes have been added to the invention tree, increasing the maximum research efficiency that a country can achieve - if you want to build a state as a shining beacon of technological advancement, this is entirely possible, but you’ll have to weigh up this decision against other valuable advancements.

101.png


With that, I’ll hand over to @Chopmist to take you through some of the map changes coming in 2.0!

[The eagle eyed among you also noticed the recurrence of the infamous ‘glowing borders’ bug in a recent screenshot. This has since been resolved.]
 
Is it weird if i'm most excited about the anatolia changes? The rest are nice too don't get me wrong it's just that anatolia looks like a much more intresting place all of a sudden.
The map looks gorgeous. It was already a piece of art to behold and it keeps improving.
 
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Greetings all,

My part of today’s developer diary focuses on further changes coming to the population system in 2.0.

The changes to civilization value mentioned previously opened up further opportunities for a rethink on population growth. In 1.5 and before, cities were largely sustained by prolonged inwards migration. While this is not something I necessarily want to change, we’ll be splitting up where population growth comes from, with the dual intentions of letting cities stand their own ground when growing pops, and allowing for more engagement in how you promote growth in owned territory.

Firstly, base pop growth, and pop growth from stability have been reduced significantly.

Secondly, civilization value now contributes to population growth, simulating an increased growth rate in developed metropoles.

Thirdly, the population growth rate from stored food has been slightly reduced, however, the food consumption of tribesmen has been reduced, making it easier to boost growth in undeveloped tribal territories without also affecting the inherently low population capacity of said land.

Lastly, various sources of population growth have been slightly reduced to accommodate the new increases from civilization value.

What does this achieve?

Overall, there should be slightly less global growth in the average game, but still enough control to make long-term decisions valid, and for local factors to have much more of an impact on the fabric of the game.

View attachment 674748
These graphs show the 2.0 build prior to population changes, and post population changes. As you can see, the newer system (bottom) results in less total population over time, with a marginally nerfed warm period event being one of the main factors.

Games in 1.5 had a tendency to balloon in population density towards the endgame, due in part to the availability of inventions and modifiers affecting pop growth. With population now being intrinsically related to army sizes, we felt it was time to return to a more realistic* growth pattern that still allows the player to manipulate the world situation to their advantage.

Related to these changes, domestic migration has been slowed down slightly, and settlement production buildings (with the exception of the Legation) now reduce outward pop migration to almost 0 (unless there are extenuating circumstances such as occupation or overpopulation).

*The academic consensus appears to be that the usual global increase in population entered a bit of a plateau at around the time Imperator is set, to around the time it ends.

Research Efficiency

Somewhat tangentially to population changes, we’re also going to be gating the maximum research efficiency of nations. The base maximum research efficiency of nations will now begin at 125%. This value can be relatively easy to achieve for smaller nations, and should still offset technological advancement positively if focused upon, however, a great disparity in tech between larger empires and city-states was simply too easy to achieve.

We still want technology to be a valid choice in nation-building, however, and numerous nodes have been added to the invention tree, increasing the maximum research efficiency that a country can achieve - if you want to build a state as a shining beacon of technological advancement, this is entirely possible, but you’ll have to weigh up this decision against other valuable advancements.

View attachment 674749

With that, I’ll hand over to @Chopmist to take you through some of the map changes coming in 2.0!

[The eagle eyed among you also noticed the recurrence of the infamous ‘glowing borders’ bug in a recent screenshot. This has since been resolved.]

Could you please answer the question regarding the Hellenic Flavor Pack from the Deluxe Edition?

How will it impact the unit graphics (levies and legions)?
 
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Thanks for the info! If I may ask, is there gonna be any livestream soon?

I believe we have one planned for Wednesday.

Could you please answer the question regarding the Hellenic Flavor Pack from the Deluxe Edition?

How will it impact the unit graphics (levies and legions)?

The unit models from the Flavor Pack will be used for Legions, whereas Levies will use the same model as other Greek nations.

@Arheo I don't know if it had been mentioned before, but how many innovations (the things we use to unlock inventions) do we get from a single tech level?

1. It is also possible to get it from other sources, though they are quite rare.
 
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Good changes, more updates to the map, but seriously:
What about India?
I have made so many posts and comments by now highlighting great rivers there that should be made navigable, as they are larger than some of the ones that are navigable in Europe, and for gameplay reasons it would also help so drastically to make the region more interesting in terms of land and naval warfare, as the region right now lacks a reason to invest in large navies, and it has nearly no natural chokepoints to play around with, especially in the central part.
So we have a historically accurate reason to make about 5 rivers there navigable, we have gameplay reasons to make them navigable, but they aren't even talked about, why?
 
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I wonder how global population will be impacted by pops dying out due to wars since that's now a thing afaik and whether that was factored in with the growth changes.
 
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We long to see you again, but I think he was asking for a 2.0 livestream ...

We have wanted one for a while, but it is unclear when exactly what will happen. I don't know what the great Troyster has planned, or for when.

@Snow Crystal thanks a lot. If I understand correctly, there is also no restriction on how we use them? For example innovation gained from a civic tech can be spent on a military invention?

Correctomundo.
 
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I really hope that an "Empire collapse" mechanic is added. When enough land is taken from a major power, the power will eventually collapse into multiple successor states. If this somehow involves the player, the player will then be able to choose which successor states he/she wishes to play as. This could lead to an interesting campaign of trying to reform your once collapsed Empire. Personally, I have never been a huge fan of Empires losing most of their territory but still existing on the map. What has been done recently to the Antigonid Empire could be a great model for other major powers like Rome, Carthage, the other Diadochi etc.
 
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FINALLY :D <3


I think this could be achieved by just let population in a territory increasing pop growth itself, atm "Stratera Balance"-mod does this by +0.03% PopGrowth per 10 inhabitants.

Just Civ Value looks a bit arbitrary for me.

In reality this would result in difficult-to-control snowballing, though I understand the attraction.

Is the initial decline in population due to all the wars going on at the start? Almost makes me feel bad.
I suppose we'll have less deaths now that carpet sieging isn't a thing anymore as well right?

Mostly yes; there also tends to be a lot of unit-migration in the starting period which 'hides' a lot of starting pops as migrant units.
 
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