Martin Boreman + Rudolph Hess Is Best

[demon72]

Via Norway. Into Hull.

The Homefleet doesn't protect the Northsea in HOI4?!

Of course you can win without rushing tanks. And easily too. But there is a sight difference between 180:1 and 2000:1.

Think that I could have reduced the 60k significantly if I avoided the use of the battle-planner sompletly and don't do naval-invasion and paradrops (which got losses just from dropping).

But as I not intended to get the best possible score, I just played the game somehow in that run. Just was suprised by that score.

 

[walt526]

I dont have problem with steel initially after going for free trade, and this is my production:

• 7 guns, 4 support, 4 arty, 2 mot, 2 LT
• 7 fighters, 2 TACs
• finish ships that are close to finish, then spam subs (might delete some capitals or destroyers that are nowhere close to being done)

Interested to hear what do others put in their initial mils as well.

• 8 guns, 2 support, 2 ART, 2 MOT, 4 LT
• 6 FTR, 4 TAC
• Finish nearly completed ships and then subs

 

[desphorin]

I know there are a few strategies to help your generals to get more traits, but not in detail.

Could you please explain that issue in more depth?

I am not really good at grinding, someone who plays a lot more MP can chip in a bit more.

• You get xp from fighting in different terrain, river crossing, multiple angles, or just using significant infantry/armour
• You get diminishing xp from longer battles, so you can manually stop attacks maybe once every 48 hours to reset that
• You get more xp when the gap between you units' attack and enemy defence. You get most xp from being 4x up IIRC.
• You get ~20% reduced xp for each learnable trait you earned, so it is very inefficient if you finish off grinding a trait before moving to the next one EDIT: it's worse than 20%, read the remaining of the thread
• Some traits are obviously fairly easy to get, like panzer/infantry expert. So because of the above point, you dont want to get them too early.
• Adaptable is the most valuable imo, so you want to get to 99% of a terrain trait, then move on to get to 99% of another. Normally in the SCW it would be 2 out of hills, mountains, and forest.
• Makeshift bridges is also valuable for river crossings (unlocked by trickster). You need to attack (or be attacked) from 3 or more angles to get xp for trickster
• Commando or Engineer is also good but probably less valuable than the above two, so you can try to get them if you still have time (ie rep spain hasnt lost too much till now)

With all the above in mind, a SCW grind strategy involves:

• 5 infantry + 2 armoured. This composition will not gain any xp to infantry/panzer expert.
• LL lots of guns to Rep Spain. Not only it gains you plenty of army xp, it allows them to fight a lot longer so you can finish off your grind
• Fight in the areas with the 'unplanned offensive' modifier. Since you only need 4x up of attack, fighting in those area dose not harm your xp gain. The plus side is that because your attack is so low, you dont damage the org of enemy too much, so the battle can go much much longer, which means more time to get the xp. If you fight in areas without the modifier, you will often need to stop for a day just for the enemy to recover org.
• LL fighter 0 then send air volunteer is also a great way to get air xp

With all that said, keep in mind that none of these are required to win against the AI. I just treat it as a fun little mini game, and I feel satisfied if I can grind a super-general.

 

[walt526]

Interesting. It hadn't occurred to me to LL to Republican Spain in order to prolong the conflict. Feels a little gamey to me so I probably won't incorporate it into my SP games, but it's an interesting approach.

 

[demon72]

• 8 guns, 2 support, 2 ART, 2 MOT, 4 LT
• 6 FTR, 4 TAC
• Finish nearly completed ships and then subs

this way you need even more CIC for import with free-trade?

1x Aluminium
2x Rubber

 

[walt526]

this way you need even more CIC for import with free-trade?

1x Aluminium
2x Rubber

I don't trade for those resources early in the game. The production hit just isn't worth it.

 

[demon72]

I am not really good at grinding, someone who plays a lot more MP can chip in a bit more.

• You get xp from fighting in different terrain, river crossing, multiple angles, or just using significant infantry/armour
• You get diminishing xp from longer battles, so you can manually stop attacks maybe once every 48 hours to reset that
• You get more xp when the gap between you units' attack and enemy defence. You get most xp from being 4x up IIRC.
• You get ~20% reduced xp for each learnable trait you earned, so it is very inefficient if you finish off grinding a trait before moving to the next one
• Some traits are obviously fairly easy to get, like panzer/infantry expert. So because of the above point, you dont want to get them too early.
• Adaptable is the most valuable imo, so you want to get to 99% of a terrain trait, then move on to get to 99% of another. Normally in the SCW it would be 2 out of hills, mountains, and forest.
• Makeshift bridges is also valuable for river crossings (unlocked by trickster). You need to attack (or be attacked) from 3 or more angles to get xp for trickster
• Commando or Engineer is also good but probably less valuable than the above two, so you can try to get them if you still have time (ie rep spain hasnt lost too much till now)

With all the above in mind, a SCW grind strategy involves:

• 5 infantry + 2 armoured. This composition will not gain any xp to infantry/panzer expert.
• LL lots of guns to Rep Spain. Not only it gains you plenty of army xp, it allows them to fight a lot longer so you can finish off your grind
• Fight in the areas with the 'unplanned offensive' modifier. Since you only need 4x up of attack, fighting in those area dose not harm your xp gain. The plus side is that because your attack is so low, you dont damage the org of enemy too much, so the battle can go much much longer, which means more time to get the xp. If you fight in areas without the modifier, you will often need to stop for a day just for the enemy to recover org.
• LL fighter 0 then send air volunteer is also a great way to get air xp

With all that said, keep in mind that none of these are required to win against the AI. I just treat it as a fun little mini game, and I feel satisfied if I can grind a super-general.

I never even managed to get somehow close to any of those terrain-traits until 1950 (unmodded).

You manage to get two of them in SCW?!

Please explain how you achieve this in more detail.

What is that issue with the unplanned offensive modifier?

 

[demon72]

I don't trade for those resources early in the game. The production hit just isn't worth it.

what is early?

We were discussing how to use the initial MIC.

And I didn't find a way to use all MIC under free-trade (2nd pp-pick) without importing at least one more CIC then the obvious 1 CIC for rubber.

Only solution I found is increasing INFRA in Rheinland and Moselland.

 

[Corpse Fool]

what is early?

I'd say '36 and '37 is early. You generally won't have the equipment you actually want to be producing unlocked before then, benig able to produce stuff by having more mils or resources doesn't really matter in my opinion. If you're the Soviets or a Germany trying to balance yourself around Barbarossa, early probably lasts up until '40.

 

[walt526]

what is early?

Until I get more MIC and start building more FTR/TAC (so around take over of Sudetenland/Czech). There's not much of a production hit if you're just missing 1-2 rubber or whatever. If you're missing a full 8, then production slows to a crawl. If you go into the Production tab and hover over the equipment, it will tell you exactly what the production hit is. Often it's less than you might think.

 

[demon72]

Until I get more MIC and start building more FTR/TAC (so around take over of Sudetenland/Czech). There's not much of a production hit if you're just missing 1-2 rubber or whatever. If you're missing a full 8, then production slows to a crawl. If you go into the Production tab and hover over the equipment, it will tell you exactly what the production hit is. Often it's less than you might think.

...so how does your initial MIC-use look like?

 

[desphorin]

I never even managed to get somehow close to any of those terrain-traits until 1950 (unmodded).

You manage to get two of them in SCW?!

Please explain how you achieve this in more detail.

What is that issue with the unplanned offensive modifier?

The most important things are (and some additional things I now remembered of):

• Grind a general without any gainable traits at the start because of the penalty for each earned trait (personality traits are fine, though ofc you want personalities that gives you more attack skill factor *refer to wiki for details).
• Stop the battle once every 24-48 hours, otherwise the diminishing xp will really hurt
• If the AI joins the battle, you might want to look elsewhere to grind. The time when you are still in the reinforcement queue does not contribute any xp gain
• Keep building up your template to a 40w or something. More manpower means more xp i think
• Stop grinding on a trait once it is at 99%. Only get the remaining xp when you are ready to get all of the traits you want.

Other than these, it's just keep bashing your head into a terrain until the general levels up. I tried it numerous times (more than I will admit!) after I learnt of general grinds before getting half decent. The unplanned offensive modifier is helpful because the -90% attack and defence do not affect your xp gain, but prevents your enemy troops from losing too quickly, so you can focus on exactly one tile to attack over and over.

For example, the border tile between Guadalajara and western Aragon is the prime place to grind hill fighter because you have 5 tiles to attack onto 1. With the modifier, you can attack it over months and the enemy wont need to retreat. Without it, they will probably need to in weeks. Then you are forced to wait the AI to move troops into it and allow you to resume grinding. Even worse is the nat Spain AI will take the tile for you, and you need to find another tile to grind.

This is a general I get in the SCW (EAI enabled). I think he is level 5 when it ends. Notice all the traits I have is all gained by the time SCW ends, and he gains nothing else since (that reduced ~20% xp for every trait already gained is really brutal)

 

[demon72]

...thanks!

Does EAI (expert AI I would guess) have any effects on XP/traits?

How do you get a w40 template before SCW?

So my biggest mistake seems to be, that I used one of the top-DR-Generals like Gurderian for that task, who already has 4 initial traits?

Doesn't make a difference if the trait is grey or blue I guess?

EDIT: how do you get 7 Divisions?

 

[Gefallener_Held]

I would like to reiterate that, so far, no one has actually done the math to show the actual difference in lost IC in choosing Export Focus/Free Trade first versus second versus third.
Again, not a choice of whether to take second silent workhorse versus changing economic laws at all, but rather delaying the latter one or two spots.
It is also unclear just how many more civs one gains by delaying four year plan to fourth to do the army innovations, tank treaty built, even though that is an exploit. Nor has it been shown how many research days are sacrificed by tech rushing int his way.

 

[walt526]

...so how does your initial MIC-use look like?

You quoted my post from this morning in this very thread that listed it :

Anyway, in Vanilla:

• 8 guns, 2 support, 2 ART, 2 MOT, 4 LT
• 6 FTR, 4 TAC
• Finish nearly completed ships and then subs

Once I switch to Free Trade, that leaves me -12 on Rubber, -5 on Aluminum, -1 on Tungsten, and -1 on Chromium.

I trade for 1 CIC for 8 Rubber (reducing the deficit to -4, all penalizing TAC) and cancel the starting trade for Tungsten (penalizing ART). Specifically, -12.5% production on TAC, -2.5% on ART, and -5% on one of the BB. And 22 CIC (rather than 23) for construction and agency.

If you don't do the 1 CIC for 8 Rubber, then you take a -27.5% hit to production on FTR and -52.5% on TAC.

 

[Gefallener_Held]

The most important things are (and some additional things I now remembered of):

• Grind a general without any gainable traits at the start because of the penalty for each earned trait (personality traits are fine, though ofc you want personalities that gives you more attack skill factor *refer to wiki for details).
• Stop the battle once every 24-48 hours, otherwise the diminishing xp will really hurt
• If the AI joins the battle, you might want to look elsewhere to grind. The time when you are still in the reinforcement queue does not contribute any xp gain
• Keep building up your template to a 40w or something. More manpower means more xp i think
• Stop grinding on a trait once it is at 99%. Only get the remaining xp when you are ready to get all of the traits you want.

Other than these, it's just keep bashing your head into a terrain until the general levels up. I tried it numerous times (more than I will admit!) after I learnt of general grinds before getting half decent. The unplanned offensive modifier is helpful because the -90% attack and defence do not affect your xp gain, but prevents your enemy troops from losing too quickly, so you can focus on exactly one tile to attack over and over.

For example, the border tile between Guadalajara and western Aragon is the prime place to grind hill fighter because you have 5 tiles to attack onto 1. With the modifier, you can attack it over months and the enemy wont need to retreat. Without it, they will probably need to in weeks. Then you are forced to wait the AI to move troops into it and allow you to resume grinding. Even worse is the nat Spain AI will take the tile for you, and you need to find another tile to grind.

This is a general I get in the SCW (EAI enabled). I think he is level 5 when it ends. Notice all the traits I have is all gained by the time SCW ends, and he gains nothing else since (that reduced ~20% xp for every trait already gained is really brutal)

View attachment 672502

I find it really unfortunate that the mechanics are this way, since it deters you from developing the very best leaders. I believe Rommel was a colonel for much of the thirties. I have used von Schweppenburg for two light panzers and Schörner for a mountaineer when I get three but it is clear to me that is a mistake. The result using this strategy, which is very clearly the correct one, is that leaders who were not at as great become the all time greats surpassing the truly great commanders.

 

[walt526]

I find it really unfortunate that the mechanics are this way, since it deters you from developing the very best leaders. I believe Rommel was a colonel for much of the thirties. I have used von Schweppenburg for two light panzers and Schörner for a mountaineer when I get three but it is clear to me that is a mistake. The result using this strategy, which is very clearly the correct one, is that leaders who were not at as great become the all time greats surpassing the truly great commanders.

I agree. I wish that there was a mod where most or even all of the admirals and generals started at a lower level than where they are currently in the game so that you'd get more of the satisfaction of building them up. I play with a mod that increases general XP gain (rather than doing the type of gamey grinding that the previous poster described), but it's still quite a bit slower than I wish it was. There is another mod that attempts to make the starting positions more realistic, but it also has the leaders at advanced levels.

 

[demon72]

You quoted my post from this morning in this very thread that listed it :

Anyway, in Vanilla:

• 8 guns, 2 support, 2 ART, 2 MOT, 4 LT
• 6 FTR, 4 TAC
• Finish nearly completed ships and then subs

Once I switch to Free Trade, that leaves me -12 on Rubber, -5 on Aluminum, -1 on Tungsten, and -1 on Chromium.

I trade for 1 CIC for 8 Rubber (reducing the deficit to -4, all penalizing TAC) and cancel the starting trade for Tungsten (penalizing ART). Specifically, -12.5% production on TAC, -2.5% on ART, and -5% on one of the BB. And 22 CIC (rather than 23) for construction and agency.

If you don't do the 1 CIC for 8 Rubber, then you take a -27.5% hit to production on FTR and -52.5% on TAC.

I marked that part, that I need to understand your approach.

 

[demon72]

I find it really unfortunate that the mechanics are this way, since it deters you from developing the very best leaders. I believe Rommel was a colonel for much of the thirties. I have used von Schweppenburg for two light panzers and Schörner for a mountaineer when I get three but it is clear to me that is a mistake. The result using this strategy, which is very clearly the correct one, is that leaders who were not at as great become the all time greats surpassing the truly great commanders.

von Schweppenburg and Schörner are part of a mod I guess?

 

[desphorin]

...thanks!

Does EAI (expert AI I would guess) have any effects on XP/traits?

How do you get a w40 template before SCW?

So my biggest mistake seems to be, that I used one of the top-DR-Generals like Gurderian for that task, who already has 4 initial traits?

Doesn't make a difference if the trait is grey or blue I guess?

EDIT: how do you get 7 Divisions?

Yes expert AI. No I dont think so, but as in any mod, I cant be 100% sure.

You dont. You send your 18w at the start and build them up to 40w through all the army xp you get from fighting and LL.

Yea Guderian is not good since he starts with 2 earned traits (the other 2 are personality traits which do not count/matter when talking xp gain)

Not sure what you mean by grey or blue traits. EDIT: ah I think I understand now. Blue are just those you picked and grey are those unlocked but you havent picked. They dont matter, not in this sense. What matter is the difference between gainable vs assignable trait. The wiki details which ones are which. IIRC, gainable traits affect further xp gain, while assignable ones dont.

You use the 5 army xp from Rhineland to spam 100 2w infantry, and when you have more than 120 divisions (excluding volunteers already sent) you can send 7 to nat spain, which is the most you can as it is further restricted by the amount of land they control