Perhaps not according to the score-keeping that was part of the benchmark thread, but could you meme a higher civ count if you just outright deleted all your mils to keep them from adding to your consumer goods?
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Martin Boreman + Rudolph Hess Is Best
- Thread starter SonofWinter
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I haven't done the math, but I think not likely. The conversion is cheaper than building up new factories, cheaper by a greater percentage than the difference in what is being spent on consumer goods at game start than what would be spent on them if you delete the mils.
Not really false. In mp if you build up any civs in the metropole as France, (or if you do anything at all besides civ to mil conversion depending on the "balance mod" being used) you will be kicked. Or USSR will make a scene and ragequit.France is just building stuff for me with their CIVs anyway.
AI France is just building more industry for you to steal when you inevitably take their land.
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The proper way to assert dominance as France is building level 1 naval bases in every province you can, before someone notices. Also, deleting your factories.
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I'll also have to do the math, but I think if we're only concerned about civ count and not absolutely crippling our war potential, deleting the mils will immediately give us +4 civs, about +17% more production from the game start as you now have 27 instead of 23. I don't believe the first 3 civs you build will be sent to CFG, so you have them also contributing, so you have 30 civs working compared to maybe 25?. You'll also be opening up more slots in your +80% infra areas, making building more that little bit faster.
Alternatively, those +4 civs could be thought of as subsidizing the civs you would normally be spending on your agency, so its more like 22 civs compared to 18, a ~22% increase in production capability.
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Never happen in real life. Just a cheese to limit Germany's capabilities.
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I assume this is facetious, but if not, see my comment to el nora above.
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Yeah, I was joking around. House rules generally ban France from building ports, as a player who does so can trivialize D-Day and make the western front incredibly more difficult to hold as the Axis. For the point of building in Metropolitan France vs Africa, it's simply competitive strategy at its finest. The goal is to win the game, not do what France historically did during the period. In a competitive game where everyone is trying to win in the end, it makes sense to do whatever you can to handicap your opponents. This is similar to the "no garrison Poland" USSR strategy mentioned elsewhere, or delaying Rhineland/Anschluss to keep the UK off of The Shadow Scheme until the Japanese declare war on China.
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1. MEFO:
Could someone explain MEFO a little bit more in detail, as the ingame decription is horrible. As far as I know, MEFO...
2. Blue-Print stealing vs. Collaboration:
3. Other PP-decisions:
are there any PP-decisions, that should be done in SP:
4. Conversion:
I never made any conversion to MIC in all my DR-games, last one I even converted MIC to CIC, as I was running out of Steel (as DR!!!).
From my point of view DR needs as much CIC as possible, as this helps you all the way (at a certain point I don't even use 100% of the MIC-production anymore):
Could someone explain MEFO a little bit more in detail, as the ingame decription is horrible. As far as I know, MEFO...
- could be canceled at several points (but which is the right one?)
- MEFO reduces PP
- MEFO speeds up construction
- Anschluss and Tschecheslowakei reduce MEFO-costs
- if MEFO get canceled it cost you a number CIC (no idea how much and for how long with the several decisions possible)
2. Blue-Print stealing vs. Collaboration:
- if you talk about blueprint stealing, why Bhutan or Tibet - what's the problem with little bit more historical Swiss?
- when and how to build up "Abwehr"?
- just Collaboration or blue-print-stealing first?
- if so how many times?
- just industry?
3. Other PP-decisions:
are there any PP-decisions, that should be done in SP:
- better working-conditions
- promise peace
- others?
4. Conversion:
I never made any conversion to MIC in all my DR-games, last one I even converted MIC to CIC, as I was running out of Steel (as DR!!!).
From my point of view DR needs as much CIC as possible, as this helps you all the way (at a certain point I don't even use 100% of the MIC-production anymore):
- trade
- building massive INFRA to supply your tank-divisions (btw. if you choose your supply-lines wisely you can improve raw material extraction significantly)
- repairing all those things your tank-divisions damage
- repairing all that damage from resistance
- building fortifications (as DR only weakness is menpower from my point of view)
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Rather than just checking the endpoints, we should consider all the critical points. It is almost certainly faster to delete 6 mils and convert the 22 you have left with 8 consumer goods and then build 6 more afterward than it would be to convert all 28 with 9 consumer goods. But is the same true about deleting 12 and converting 16 to be at 7 consumer goods factories? What about deleting 18 and converting 10 at 6 cgf? And finally, the minimum number to test would be deleting 24 and converting 4 at 5 cgf. There's no point in deleting any further below that, as that doesn't reduce consumer goods any further.
Never cancel MEFO bills. When you cancel then, you lose a lump sum of pp, depending on how long they've been ongoing, which is whatever. But you get a massive +20% consumer goods for half a year which is crippling. Maybe the +25% build speed and -5% consumer goods is not worth the pp spent on them, though I would contend that it is. But the penalty for paying them back is just too harsh to ever do it.
Bhutan and Nepal are opms. Opms have a x0 weight toward taking their industrial focuses until 39, and have like 2 total factories each. So you will never be forced to contend with them ever being able to make an agency to fight against your spies. The optimal time to create your own agency is immediately before needing to use it. For Germany that is literally day 1. You need at least two collaboration governments in France, maybe a collaboration in Poland, and to steal fighter 2 from Romania in mp games. That's without even mentioning the industrial blueprint stealing.
Never improve worker conditions as Germany. It's not worth increasing consumer goods now for reduced consumer goods later. Improve Worker Conditions is a panic button that you press if you're below 50% stability while at war to avoid getting strikes and only if you don't have other, better ways of increasing stability. Promises of Peace is only worthwhile if you've got a bunch of war support burning a hole in your pocket, with more coming in. That is to say, if you're allowed to ace spam. USSR does it at the same time that they do war propaganda which is net zero on war support and just increases stability. Anti-communist/democratic raids is a nice little bit of stability if you have a bunch of pp that you're not using, for instance if you take Bormann instead of taking Goebbels.
How early do you switch from civ to mil construction? All your construction before June 38 should be pure civs. Some people also advocate building up to 10 infra in Rhineland and Moselland because you will have 20 buildslots in those states when you get dispersed 5. And you start out using only 5 and 3 of them respectively, so they do pay themselves back in total build time, but since you get the civs later than you would have gotten them if you hadn't built up infra there it may still be not worth it. However, they also provide quite a bit of steel, worth more and costing less than the civ you would have had to spend on buying more steel on the open market.
Repairing infrastructure during the war is worth it if you are getting attritioned by the lack of supply. If you are suffering no ill effects of the broken infrastructure, then there's no point in repairing it.
Building up forts can be worthwhile in singleplayer as they do actually deter the ai from attacking if the fort level is high enough. But forts are a pure joke in multiplayer. Don't build them up.
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About Free Trade as Germany: I feel if Germany has the Autarky spirit, they should be limited to Limited Exports and Closed Economy. Autarky was about being self sufficient, and don't put ressource on the marktet you need yourself, so you need to import ressorces from other people again.
Although there should also be a seperate faction market, and/or trade agreement market where ressourecs go first, but this is another topic.
Forts are mostly useless, Naval Forts can be okish in like the pacific, for like level 2 naval forts, which are cheap and can delay an invasion.
About the discussion, I personally go for Borman, but not Hess, getting a bit more PP over time is nice and with Rhineland you have the PP to get it ASAP to reap the PP benefit for a long time.
I mostly play modded, so for example construction tech is 5% speed per tech instead of the 10%, making it slower, aswell as only 10 Civ per construction line instead of 15. Slows down the snowballing for Civ construction quite a bit.
Also in MP we forbid exploits like Volunteers to Ethopia, Ace farming and such stuff. Also we have fixed other exploits like Industrial Blueprint stealing (just make all concentrated and dispersed industry mutually exclusive, instead of just the first one)
Although there should also be a seperate faction market, and/or trade agreement market where ressourecs go first, but this is another topic.
Forts are mostly useless, Naval Forts can be okish in like the pacific, for like level 2 naval forts, which are cheap and can delay an invasion.
About the discussion, I personally go for Borman, but not Hess, getting a bit more PP over time is nice and with Rhineland you have the PP to get it ASAP to reap the PP benefit for a long time.
I mostly play modded, so for example construction tech is 5% speed per tech instead of the 10%, making it slower, aswell as only 10 Civ per construction line instead of 15. Slows down the snowballing for Civ construction quite a bit.
Also in MP we forbid exploits like Volunteers to Ethopia, Ace farming and such stuff. Also we have fixed other exploits like Industrial Blueprint stealing (just make all concentrated and dispersed industry mutually exclusive, instead of just the first one)
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So what should be the first picks after you build the "Abwehr" in SP?
...and what would you suggest as first and second mission?
...as I just started playing with LR-DLC I'm still quite confused.
Can't say exactly but somewhere about mid 38 certainly.
Normally I start with "Rheinland" building INFRA to 10, then in all available slots there CIC, afterwards the same with "Moselland" and Niederschlesien (also to get the extra steel for free trade).
I don't build anything in Brandenburg, Sachsen, Franken and Thüringen before "Reichsautobahn".
There are that many situations that my tanks need better/repaired INFRA for supplies, that I always want to have enough CIC therefore.
With the combination DR and SP forts are a must from my point of view. No idea about MP, I guess I would get kicked quite fast for playing to slow
EDIT: what would be the next "pp"-picks after Hess and Bormann?
- free trade
- Krupp
- Schacht
- Canaris
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Don't do Hess. You can either take Free Trade or Bormann first depending on if you're taking Bormann or Goebbels. I typically do Bormann -> Free Trade -> Krupp -> Schadt -> Canaris -> MAN/Porsche -> Guderian -> Messerschmidt -> Opel -> B&V -> High Command, with promises of peace and raids decisions sprinkled in after Guderian.
If I'm not doing Bormann I take Free Trade first, then Goebbels, then everything else is the same.
If I'm not doing Bormann I take Free Trade first, then Goebbels, then everything else is the same.
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Goebbels is a waste of pp. Easy to raise war support by early 37.
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This has already been talked about here, but the reason people take Goebbels isn't because he's the best in a vacuum. It's because most of the time multiplayer house rules prevent ace spamming, and attaches can sometimes go away at a bad time forcing you to demobilize (and you can be constantly hit with minors spamming you to recall your attache, wasting tons of PP). Early Anschluss is not optimal because you want to wait for Austria to finish its industrial tree and keep the world tension below 10% for as long as possible to handicap the Allies. Assuming these, the only way to get war economy in early 36 is to take Goebbels. Early 37 is too late, the USSR will be on war economy 70 days into the game. You really don't want to be playing catch-up to the USSR in factory count when you have so many other enemies you will have to be dealing with.
Also as a side note, "reside" doesn't really make sense in your sentence, it means "to live in" as in a house, or to describe where an object belongs "the box resides in the closet." I think the word you're searching for might be "have enough," "acquire," or "obtain?" Not saying this to be mean, I'm just trying to be helpful since it seems English isn't your first language. If it was just autocorrect, forgive me.
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You can get aces by doing 25 plane wings. You also get enough war support from Anschluss.
Reside was an error from autocorrect.
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...as I was already on that way I'm right here in 10/1936:
Focus Tree:
PP-picks:
Research:
1. Machine tools -> distributed industry -> distributed industry II
2. Construction -> Construction II
3. electro -> mechanical calculator -> medium Tank ?
4. Catapult -> Para -> Machine tools II
...if I start researching on medium tank at this point, I couldn't pick Schacht AND a Design Team before end of research of the medium tank!
Focus Tree:
- Rhineland
- Army Innovations
- Tank Treaty
- 4 Year Plan (started)
PP-picks:
- Hess
- Bormann
- free trade
- Krupp
- Tank Designer / Schacht
Research:
1. Machine tools -> distributed industry -> distributed industry II
2. Construction -> Construction II
3. electro -> mechanical calculator -> medium Tank ?
4. Catapult -> Para -> Machine tools II
...if I start researching on medium tank at this point, I couldn't pick Schacht AND a Design Team before end of research of the medium tank!
- at which point to do you research medium tanks?
- do you pick a research team for 1st medium tank?
- which design-team do you choose?
I generally only actually use 3 of the research slots, leaving one open to juggle all the majority of techs until treaty is done, and then I throw either MT1 or HT2 in there with the research boost. I'm not sure you can be delaying free trade and krupp so long to use the bonuses from 4YP fourth on dispersed and construction 3. 4YP might be finishing before you're done researching dispersed 2.
You should be skipping past medium 1 pretty quickly with your other research boosts, it is not required to have the design company in time for MT1 other than for a bit of extra research speed, which does help. If you did want to push things ahead a bit, cut/delay hess and/or bormann. This frees up more PP in the earlier game where it is arguably more valuable.
Porsche, the heavy tank designer. When you're hitting whichever tank with a +5 gun and +5 reliability, the +5% soft attack from medium designer is really only +4.3%. Now, getting +4.3% soft attacks is better than +0 soft attack, but especially for medium tanks that is not what your weakness is. Medium tank weakness is often their hard attack (even after +5 gun) and armor. The reliability of the medium tank designer is only +5%, which in order to hit 100% reliability with +5 gun, you still need to use +5 reliability. Guderian largely replaces the need for the mobile tank designer, though the reliability could be used to save you some XP on boosting reliability. But why spend the opportunity cost on having more attacks and armor to save XP, when you're generally going to have a lot of XP?
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