There's a lot of toxicity on this forum, but there are also legitimate issues we'd like the team to address

[Hundar]

Well, I can't say whether you'll be satisfied or whether you'll find it insufficient, but I can promise that there are a bunch of fixes in 2.8.

Do you actually think that i am that stupid to fall for that, expecially after THE GAME DIRECTOR HIMSELF SAID THERE WONT BE ANY MAJOR FIXES IN THIS PATCH? This is insulting, at least coordinate with your fellow devs on what to say before contradicting yourself.

 

[James Fire]

Do you actually think that i am that stupid to fall for that, expecially after THE GAME DIRECTOR HIMSELF SAID THERE WONT BE ANY MAJOR FIXES IN THIS PATCH? This is insulting, at least coordinate with your fellow devs on what to say before contradicting yourself.

Where did he say that?

 

[Hundar]

Where did he say that?

Here https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...d-ships-the-art-process.1429333/post-26974964

 

[sillyrobot]

Where did he say that?

Stellaris Dev Diary #186: Necroid Ships & the Art process

Hello everyone! My name is Fredrik Toll, and I am the Art Director for Stellaris. For this week's dev diary, we wanted to give you an insight into the development process of creating the ships for the Necroids Species Pack. Let’s dig right into...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

"We have a number of different topics we're looking into, but we won't be talking about them in more detail right now. We don't want to deploy something too risky along with the species pack, but when we make progress in something it's likely to find its way to a public beta branch sometime after that. " -- emphasis mine

 

[Spidee]

With all due respect, this isn't the first, the second, or even the fifth time that "one more patch" was going to be the "best patch ever", nor is it the first time that it was said to solve tons of issues.

This is an endless cycle with this game. Every major patch comes out and breaks as much as it fixes, which I'm sure you know considering you're on staff.

Asking us to wait until it ships before expressing frustration is absurd. We have been waiting. For years, we've been waiting for "one more patch" to make the game actually function properly.

My response to you is this: How can you possibly think it's reasonable to ask us to wait when we bought the game years ago and are still waiting? Can you not see how immensely disrespectful it feels to the players to ask for patience, four and a half years after release? Do you even realize how many times we've been told that the issues would be solved in just one more patch? How many times can you guys promise the moon, let everyone down, and then still expect people to be able to take it seriously? Even if this patch comes out and fixes all, or heck, even most of the issues with this game, do you think we should be excited for it considering how long we've been waiting? Do you think that after waiting two years since 2.0 that we should be excited to have the game finally function again? A game which we paid good money for?

Sorry, but your post really rubs me the wrong way, and it genuinely feels disrespectful. It's so out of touch with the frustrations we've had with this game. A game, might I add, that this community is clearly passionate about. And that community is not the problem with Stellaris.

Man I feel you, but by the same logic, if it was not fixed now, then should just give up on the game. Don't leash out on the only person who seems willing to talk to us. We already know we will get no information in the next DD, but we might see something in 2 weeks. Where there is life, there is hope. And if not, that, well install SMAC and have some retro fun.

 

[sillyrobot]

Man I feel you, but by the same logic, if it was not fixed now, then should just give up on the game. Don't leash out on the only person who seems willing to talk to us. We already know we will get no information in the next DD, but we might see something in 2 weeks. Where there is life, there is hope. And if not, that, well install SMAC and have some retro fun.

Well if they do want to release around Hallowe'en, it might be RELEASED in 2 weeks.

 

[GnoSIS]

Well if they do want to release around Hallowe'en, it might be RELEASED in 2 weeks.

We have reached the point where people are imagining huge incoming patches with major fixes with no anouncements. This is not healthy.

 

[Shifty2012]

I can understand why the Dev team is reluctant to engage, it must be exhausting and rather demoralising to read through post after post documenting the poor state of the game along with the increasingly hostile attitude of the community towards the project. But at the same time I can't really blame people for some of the more sober and pointed criticism that is posted increasingly regularly. The forum has been sliding steadily towards the state it is now for quite some time, if problems had been adressed sooner it might not have come to this.

But I do appreciate the Dev responses, too little too late you might say but fine; take the olive branch, try to be constructive rather than simply score points. You're helping noone and it's tiresome.

As for me I'm looking forwards to the 2.8 patch, I'm tempted by the new Necroids dlc. The first species pack I can really say that about. But I'll wait and try the patch first, see if things aren't getting back on track. If not then I'll simply part company with Stellaris rather more permanantly. And probably Paradox as a whole for that matter.

 

[sillyrobot]

We have reached the point where people are imagining huge incoming patches with major fixes with no anouncements. This is not healthy.

I expect no major patch -- the dev lead specifically wrote there wouldn't be one. Two weeks from today is one week before Hallowe'en. If they want the release to coincide with the holiday, it'll be no later than Friday the 30th. A week before, Friday the 23rd, would be probably better from a sales perspective. That's 13 days from now. Two dev diaries at most. The first is going to be an art backgrounder.

 

[~Robbie]

Man I feel you, but by the same logic, if it was not fixed now, then should just give up on the game. Don't leash out on the only person who seems willing to talk to us. We already know we will get no information in the next DD, but we might see something in 2 weeks. Where there is life, there is hope. And if not, that, well install SMAC and have some retro fun.

I'm not lashing out at anyone. I'm expressing how I clear in a way that I thought was matter-of-fact and honest. I didn't attack him personally or denigrate him in any way.

As to your other point -- if it hasn't been fixed in four years that I should just give up -- that's an option, certainly. I haven't played Stellaris nearly as much as I used to in years. But I still keep up with the game and poke my head in when I can, because it's a game I love(d).

It's just a boy who cried wolf situation.

 

[Kayden_II]

I know I'm sticking my neck out a bit here, but the funny thing about the whole rage on the forums atm is, I am firmly convinced (and this is a personal opinion) that 2.8 will be the best patch we've ever done.

And I don't just mean the content - there's a fair few nice and juicy bugfixes in it too.

This sounds like an exaggeration on your side ( "best patch ever" and "nice and juicy bugfixes" vs just a "fair few" of them ), especially in ( kinda contradictive ) comparison on what grekulf ( game-director of Stellaris ) had recently written:

We don't want to deploy something ( actual solutions in regards to popular issues like crisis AI, military AI, performance etc. ) too risky along with the species pack ( Necroids-DLC ), but when we make progress in ( said ) something it's likely to find its way to a public beta branch sometime after that.

( https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-the-art-process.1429333/page-2#post-26974964 )

On a further note ...

If you don't believe me, obviously that's your prerogative, but I'd ask that you wait until it ships before you condemn it.

The "Let us wait then see"-approach isn't well grounded since Paradox doesn't have the track-record to let me believe that this fourth species-pack ( Necroids-DLC ) will be used to concentrate substantially on patch-stuff ( completions, optimisations, fixes and balancing ) ...
Plantoids-DLC: https://stellaris.paradoxwikis.com/Patch_1.2.X#1.2.3
Humanoids-DLC: https://stellaris.paradoxwikis.com/Patch_1.9
Lithoids-DLC: https://stellaris.paradoxwikis.com/Patch_2.5

 

[Tim_Ward]

They're working on major fixes, but the fixes won't be in the Necriods patch, but the one after. That's pretty clear from what grekulf was saying and in no way contradicts what Caligula Caesar is saying. If y'all want to have opinions on game development, maybe look up what a 'branch' is or something.

The issue I'm having isn't that I don't think fixes are coming, is that that what's going to happen is that we're going to get a patch and, yes, it will improve *some* but not all of the problems the game has but then they'll just stop improving the base game and start working on new content again, and this will continue for another two years until the forum gets back into this state and then they'll do another partial fix but this time there will be two more years worth of bugs and so on.

This is what happened with performance and AI. After the economy rework performance was bad and the forum was up in arms about it, and they did release a patch which actually did significantly improve performance. The game was unplayable from the midgame onwards for me, and now it's only unplayable in the late game. Unfortunately... the game is still unplayable in the late game, and nothing visible has been done on performance since then.

This, then, is the cycle: new content, ignore old problems, add new problems > forum builds to backlash > partially fix like one thing, back on new content, add new problems > forum builds to backlash > fix one thing etc, etc

I'm not looking for one patch that's going to fix some stuff, I'm looking for change in approach from developers that pro-actively fixes the game when issues arise (as they will, inevitably - the fact that new patches have bugs and new features have design problems is not the critique here) rather than just doing the bare minimum to shut the forum up when it becomes unbearable.

 

[Caligula Caesar]

Meh. The DLC features are less than 1/6 of the patchnotes. That's all I have to say. Caligula out.

 

[Hundar]

Meh. The DLC features are less than 1/6 of the patchnotes. That's all I have to say. Caligula out.

yet you guys decided to not dedicate any DDs so far to showing what was *allegedly* fixed, implying that the major bugs that afflict this game are still there.
You are welcome ofc to prove me wrong and post how the ai and the micro hell is fixed, i would be very happy to start playing again this game.

 

[sillyrobot]

yet you guys decided to not dedicate any DDs so far to showing what was *allegedly* fixed, implying that the major bugs that afflicts this game are still there.
You are welcome ofc to prove me wrong and post how the ai and the micro hell is fixed, i would be very happy to start playing again this game.

Probably both Caligula Caesar and the doubters in the forum community are correct. There probably is a whole bunch of content/scripting repair that doesn't touch any of the serious failures the game is experiencing. There certainly is a target-rich environment in the scripts. If we are extremely lucky, the economic AI might even be updated to meet the last update and become less likely to starve itself -- again.

This scenario leaves both grekulf and Caligula truthful and correct.

 

[Kayden_II]

They're working on major fixes,

Come on, you should know how this phrase is kinda dubious these days^^

but the fixes won't be in the Necriods patch, but the one after.

Actually, you've to read the statement of grekulf ( https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-the-art-process.1429333/page-2#post-26974964 ) carefully. I agree that he'd written that major fixes won't come with the Necroids-DLC and its accompanied update or patch ( V2.8.0 ), but your assumption that major fixes will come right after, I mean with the subsequent update or patch ( V2.9.0 or even V2.8.1 ) is just the optimistic interpretation of "something" ( Pick your major fix(es), I guess ) could "likely" ( or not so "likely" ) come "sometime" after the Necroids-DLC ( "that" ), but only under the condition "when" ( if ) Paradox does anything in that regard. My key-point here is that "sometime" doesn't have to mean "right after". Sorry, but that's the thing with these kind of illusive, un-detailed and non-committal phrases: They can mean nothing, anything and everything.

 

[Tim_Ward]

@Kayden_II I don't blame you for that attitude, but we do actually know a little more about what they're working on.

There are a bunch of things that we're working on, including some quality of life and micromanagement changes that are too big to go alongside a species pack. We'll start discussing those once they bake a little longer and I can give firmer information.

A person asks, 'what about the AI though'

I was mentioning some of the things that I've personally been working on. Sorry if it wasn't enough.

On Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Stellaris/comments/iyzykl/_/g6g4df4

https://www.reddit.com/r/Stellaris/comments/j39m8x/_/g7e3phv

I understand their secrecy (or at least I understand why they do it), but I honestly think it's counterproductive at this point.

If these tidbits are ok to drop into random threads, they're ok to put in a sticked post: "We are working on x,y,z". Don't have to go into specifics. Would have avoided the unpleasant response Caligula Caesar got for trying to engage, too.

 

[Tim_Ward]

i would be very happy to start playing again this game.

Hard same. In the mood for some Stellaris right now, but I don't know if I can face the true end game crisis: the Red Briefcases.

 

[WarriorofMODS]

If you want to know my opinion, I think everyone in this forum is overreacting massively, asking impossible things and being way to clingy overall to the game.

Devs already have said they are working on fixes. They improved lag in federations, and reduced micro in the lastest minor patches. They can't solve everything at once.
If they end up not fixing anything, it's up to them. And if thats the case, you all should stop being so toxic and move on.

There are way better things to do than getting so obsessed with a videogame. Like playing something else.

You are only compounding the problem.

 

[WarriorofMODS]

I think this is a tricky issue. I do believe that the communication by Paradox devs on this sub-forum is not as good as that on the forums of other games (such as EU IV or CK2). At the same time, Stellaris fans seem more unhappy with their game than fans of other Paradox games - I am not sure there is much "toxicity" per se, but I can see why devs would be unwilling to interact. In general, the relationship between developers and fans has been somewhat complicated basically from the start - for instance, I do not think that other forums ever had entire topics of discussion fully "quarantined" in their own pinned thread, such as for performance now or for sectors in the "good old days".

I think that one possible cause for this is that, for whatever reason, there seems to be a large discrepancy between how the game is viewed by who is active on this forum and by customers at large. While the majority (or at least a large number) of forum users seem to agree that the game is marred by serious problems, which have been left unaddressed for too long, Stellaris seems to be selling very well: it was in the "silver" tier of steam top sellers for 2019, which is very good for a 2016 game (also, it was one tier higher than CK2, HOI4 and EUIV!), and it seems that Federations sold extremely well too (see here, for instance). Further, there does not seem to be any serious decrease in player numbers (they are quite stable across the last 4 years - see here). And whenever Stellaris is mentioned on the main gaming websites the tone is generally extremely positive - I have never read an article on Rockpapershotgun, Polygon or other outlets in which performance and bugs were even mentioned as possible issues.

Thus, I think a possible reason for the "uneasy" atmosphere on the forum is that, while most users think that the game urgently needs extra work on bug-fixing, performance improvement and balancing, the devs look at sales numbers and general reception and conclude that most of their customers are actually quite satisfied. Maybe the devs do not say much because they don't have anything to say which would make the forum users happy - they are not working on some massive rebalancing and patching of the game, they think that the current issues and bugs are not THAT big of a deal, and think that the opinions on the forum are not representative of what most most players believe. This makes the forum users more annoyed, which in turn reduces the willingness of devs to interact with them.

To clarify, I think the game has serious issues - I play on 2.1, have not bought Megacorp nor any later DLCs, and think that the massive overhaul of 2.2 was a sub-optimal use of resources, which might have been better employed to build on the 2.1 framework. That being said, the game seems to be doing great, so I guess I am in the minority. It's possible most players do not really care about having a competitive AI, play only up to the mid-game (so they never encounter issues with broken endgame crises and performance), and do not worry about resettling pops (the AI is not gonna punish you for playing sub-optimally after all).

Stellaris has reported great sales, and yet their player count has barely risen. This is illogical unless lots of players are leaving.

Gaming News Sites such as Rock Paper Shotgun and Polygon can't be trusted. Especially after TLOU2 fiasco. One quick and easy payment and these sites can blather a bunch of positive soup to make your game look better. If you don't pay, more often than not they'll make sure to smear your game. It's almost an extortion racket.